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Spam Your Rights Online

Federal Bounty on Spammers 244

Posted by timothy from the just-a-thought dept.
Portigui writes "CNN is reporting that the FTC is considering imposing a bounty on spammers. They are guessing it would take between $100,000 to $250,000 to get people to rat out their friends, coworkers, etc... Interstingly enough is that it is 'higher than rewards in most high-profile criminal and terrorism cases. For example, the FBI pays $50,000 for tips leading to the arrests of most of its top 10 fugitives.'"
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Federal Bounty on Spammers More

Federal Bounty on Spammers

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  • What we need is... (Score:5, Funny)

    by Trailer Trash ( 60756 ) on Friday September 17, 2004 @12:55PM (#10278458) Homepage
    a bounty on /. dups...
  • Ah, the return of the dupe articles of articles that aren't even 24 hours old [slashdot.org].... How I did not miss thee.

  • Potentially duplicating (Score:5, Interesting)

    by dan dan the dna man ( 461768 ) on Friday September 17, 2004 @12:56PM (#10278475) Homepage Journal
    this [slashdot.org]

    But the question I have to ask - are they really worth persuing to this degree? I'm not trolling (seriously) but I'd rather see my tax dollars paying for takedowns in more serious crime..

    • Re:Potentially duplicating (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Trailer Trash ( 60756 ) on Friday September 17, 2004 @01:06PM (#10278640) Homepage

      Spam is a serious crime. A single spammer can cost our country millions of dollars of lost productivity each year. While no one company (outside of AOL, Hotmail, Yahoo, etc.) bears this entire cost, it adds up to big bucks in the aggregate.

      It is quite appropriate that we put a bounty on spammers. Frankly, I still think the proper thing to do is to have a large statutory penalty, say $10,000/spam, that anyone can collect in small-claims court. We had a good law here in Tennessee, but the penalties weren't large enough ($10/spam, capped at $5000/day) and it really didn't specify that the damages weren't compensatory, leaving the judge with some discretion.

      The only way to kill a spamming operation is the "death of a thousand cuts". It's obvious that law enforcement doesn't really care about this problem, otherwise Ralsky and Hardigree wouldn't be doing interviews and talking about their wealth. For that matter, I don't see a bounty system as working since we're still relying on law enforcement to catch and prosecute.

      • Interesting point. I understand that time and money is spent, but I suspect it's on sysadmins - who, the last time I looked, are responsible for this on their networks. Traffic costs are a different matter.

        The thing is, I just don't get that much spam. Not on my webmail accounts, not at my work accounts. My mailman lists discard posts from non-members automatically. My helpdesk system with widely publicised email gets maybe 3-5 a day. My SPAM UNFILTERED shell account that I've used to post on Usenet
        • I have a public web site with my email address there. I have to in order to get email and sales. This nets me a couple thousand spams/day.

          I also turn spammers in to their isps, so I generally get another 1000-3000/day that are bounces from joe-jobs.

          Any other questions?
        • Interesting point. I understand that time and money is spent, but I suspect it's on sysadmins - who, the last time I looked, are responsible for this on their networks. Traffic costs are a different matter.

          The last Systems job I had needed a guy just to deal with spam. It would have cost our company a salary + bennefits *less* if there was little or no spam.

          What on earth do people do to get such infuriating amounts of spam?

          I don't know, but on an account I've had for 10 years, I get 100+ spam a day *a
          • I'm currently getting about 3000 spams per day now. Fortunately, 99.9% are filtered properly (I love Spamassassin and the SURBL rocks!)

            Lately my big pain in the ass has been these `cheapsoft' f*ckers joe-jobbing me -- gotten a few thousand bounces from that.

            Why do I get so much? I still have the same addresses I had 10 years ago, and I regularly post to Usenet, refusing to obfuscate my address. And my address is on web sites too ...

        • In most cases, people don't do ANYTHING to get all the spam. For a long time I thought the same thing as you, they must be doing something. I only got 4-5 per day. I figured I was being smart, not putting my address on web pages, not sending it to just anyone, all that.

          Then one day about a year ago the inbox got flooded. And it still does. I get 75-100/day, most of them utterly meaningless garbage too. Not even selling anything, just paragraphs of random words. Worse, the past couple of weeks I'm ge
    • Hum, scams designed to steal the life savings of old people (Nigeria scam), selling possibly tainted drugs (presciption drug scams). What would you consider a "serious crime." If a smart guys steals $20,000 from elderly womam by way of an internet scam (using spam to find the victims), how is that any less serious than say sneaking into her bank and robbing the money?
      • Totally correct, I take your point entirely. If someone is defruaded by a spammer - treat it as fraud, surely it doesn't need new legislation? If you're going after people just because they bulk mail to sell shitty products, I'm less inclined to see the crime.

        I find the fact people might actually use these to buy prescription medications more worrying than anything, $DEITY only knows what people are putting in their mouths because they're too afraid/stupid/addicted to go to the doctors to ask...
    • Have you ever seen those TV shows about bounty hunters in the US? Of course it's appropriate. I'd love to see film of big Florida spamhaus heads getting driven into the cold concrete by an unflinching lowlife.
    • I'm not trolling (seriously) but I'd rather see my tax dollars paying for takedowns in more serious crime.

      You mean like DEA funding to counter the "hippie threat"?
    • In theory it pays for itself. Penatlies for spamming include substantial fines. I'm not sure how good federal prosecutors are at actually getting their hands on that money (since much of it is probably sitting in offshore accounts; ever notice that many spammers live in Florda, a boat ride away from those offshore islands) but if they can collect it it's significantly more than the bounty.
    • The problem I have is one of weight. Overall, one spammer can literally annoy hundreds of millions of people. While any one individual might not more more than somewhat annoyed, in the aggrigate I find this to be a huge crime against humanity - like spitting in the faces of a million people at once.

      Almost no other crime has the ability to affect so many people at once. That's why I am happy they are taking this more and more seriously.

      Aside from that argument and one of the money it costs businesses to

  • Dupe? (Score:3, Funny)

    by fresh27 ( 736896 ) on Friday September 17, 2004 @12:56PM (#10278478) Homepage
    I think I saw this yesterday O_o Could this be considered spam?
  • I think we need the return of the old western "Wanted Dead or Alive" posters.
    • I think we need the return of the old western "Wanted Dead or Alive" posters.

      From many comics: Wanted Dead or Alive, preferably Dead

      For example, the FBI pays $50,000 for tips leading to the arrests of most of its top 10 fugitives.""

      Yow! $50,000! Alright, I know just how to get that money, right after the 21st!

      Me: "Lessee.. 1-800-EFF-BEE-I.." diit doot doot deet diit doot doot...
      FBI: "Hello, Federal Bureau of Investigation"
      Me: "I'd like to report a dangerous criminal!"
      FBI: "Great! Please give us

  • ...what Lessig's been advocating for some time. Good!
  • Spammer would appear to be categorized as worst community offender than our local serial rapist.

    Is this a start of a new legal trend where economic damage has precedence over human life?
    • I think you need to reset your computer's clock, or maybe use NTP. The 19th of September [talklikeapirate.com] is Sunday, not today.

    • Is this a start of a new legal trend where economic damage has precedence over human life?

      Look at the scale of the thing. A rapist targets a single victim, whereas a spammer targets a million victims. If you could take one million junk mail messages and divert them to a single recipient who is forced to either read or delete them all manually in no longer than a minute, it would more or less kill that person, cartoon-style (we are talking 10,000 key presses per second here).

      Another calculation: If it ta

  • 1. Go here [slashdot.org]
    2. Find high moderated comments, and repost them.
    3. Karmic Profit!!!
    • Ok.
      What would it take to get someone to turn in one of those spammers who send millions of unwanted e-mails? At least $100,000, the Federal Trade Commission figures.
      Really? If I knew someone who was spamming, I'd turn them in for free. Any cash would just be a bonus.

    • Ooh, ooh...Let me try! (Score:5, Funny)

      by switcha ( 551514 ) on Friday September 17, 2004 @01:05PM (#10278617)
      Dear Slashdotters,

      Do you need a new mortgage?
      Do you want to earn your d1pl0ma?
      Do you want a Nigerian penis?
      Send $1 to:

      Happy Dude
      355 S 520 W, Ste. 100
      Lindon, UT 84042
      Sincerely,
      Darl McBride

      via Gzip Christ

      • Dear Slashdotters,

        Do you need a new mortgage?
        Do you want to earn your d1pl0ma?
        Do you want a Nigerian penis?
        Send $1 to:

        Happy Dude
        355 S 520 W, Ste. 100
        Lindon, UT 84042
        Sincerely,
        Darl McBride

        ------

        Oh wait, we were supposed to pull DIFFERENT posts? I thought the plan sounded kind of lame.
      • Do you want a Nigerian penis? - you forgot the second part of that sentence: up your ass?

    • Re:Karma Whoring 101 (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Monkeyman334 ( 205694 ) on Friday September 17, 2004 @01:06PM (#10278633)
      Why repost comments and be a karma whore? You could instead repost stories and become an editor.
      • This is unfortunately a growing trend - within the last week I count at least three dupe stories - could it be that the volume of submissions has swamped the Editorial mechanisms? Is it time for a fresh think on how to avoid dupes?

        I'm betting there are feasible ways in which mechanical dupe checking can be performed. It should be fairly simple to write a few scripts (yeah yeah - take your choice - perl, python, - whats that you say ? awk? sure!) all new submissions to build an article wise list of keyword

  • My old boss (Score:3, Interesting)

    by SnapperHead ( 178050 ) on Friday September 17, 2004 @12:57PM (#10278495) Homepage Journal
    Would be the perfect person to rat out, not only does there datacenter disregard spammers who host there, he also spams quite a bit himself.

    Why would I do it ?

    1) They screawed me out of a $2000 check.
    2) They screawed me on my taxes.
    3) They still have some equipment of mine.
    4) Even for $10,000 it would be worth it to me.
  • Don't we know where most of the spammers are spamming from anyway? Why not just pay the ISPs to stop allowing the fuckers from having bandwith?

    Better yet why don't we just do it for free and block their IP blocks from all routers across the net?

    Hey, an even better idea is a "Great Firewall of America" where we can keep the .kr, .br, etc from sending their spam into our country!

  • I will be rich.... (Score:3, Funny)

    by jmcmunn ( 307798 ) on Friday September 17, 2004 @12:58PM (#10278516)

    Next time 34564gnshe@yahoo.com or DSggh5r4555@hotmail.com sends me some spa, I am reporting their ass to the feds. Now I just need to figure out what to do with all of that money...
    • Sorry, I never have recieved a "spa" in my inbox. Maybe "spam" is what I meant to type.

      Oh, and I am sorry if those are anyone's email addresses, they truly were meant to be random.
  • "Well, I wanna turn in Billy, man!"
    "Hey, whatta you talkin' 'bout, man?!"
    "Man, you sold me those email addresses on that CD, they all bounced back, man! Opt-in, my ass!"

    And so on.

  • $100k-$250k?! (Score:5, Funny)

    by fatcatman ( 800350 ) on Friday September 17, 2004 @12:59PM (#10278523)
    They are guessing it would take between $100,000 to $250,000 to get people to rat out their friends, coworkers, etc...

    Holy shit, spammers have loyal friends. I'd rat 'em out for a happy meal.
    • "Holy shit, spammers have loyal friends. I'd rat 'em out for a happy meal."

      They should have plenty of loyal friends. I mean, by now they surely have some of the largest p3n1s specimens on Earth along with millions of cash found in African business dealings as well as being the healthiest people on earth with all the vitamins they take.

    • Re:$100k-$250k?! (Score:3, Insightful)

      by stratjakt ( 596332 )
      They're looking to turn partners against each other. That's the only way to get a real conviction. A witness would have to see, or participate in the spamming for his testimony to be useful.

      Ie; you couldn't go to court and testify "stratjakt is a spammer because he told me all about it at the bar!" That would be heresay. You could say "stratjakt and I ran a spamming operation, I rolled on him to avoid prosecution. I was just following orders, honest!"

      I'm not a lawyer, of course.

      Of course, you have t
  • No, I'm not trolling or baiting, but think about it: would you rather have a $50k bounty on your head for work whose profit is of religious significance or a $200k bounty on your head for work whose profit is one or two orders of magnitude lower?
  • Okay, now how about free subscriptions for people that filter out dupes?
  • This may sound bad, but unless the FBI is after a mass murderer; Spam affects more people. So it is in the best interest to offer more money.

  • Rat out non-BCC users? (Score:5, Funny)

    by BestNicksRTaken ( 582194 ) on Friday September 17, 2004 @01:06PM (#10278641)
    Does this mean I can rat out my coworkers who insist on forwarding jokes with their whole addressbook in the TO: field AND GET PAID FOR IT?!
  • Is there any evidence that spammers have co-workers or friends (who are not themselves also spammers)?
  • When it comes down to the logistical standpoint of fighting crime (ala $) Top-Ten fugitives aren't very dangerous. Sure they might kill a handful of people but they can't compare to the relative mastermind it takes to generate a boatload of spam and get it past a few spam filters.

    Now I don't mean to sound cold. I know that this certainly wouldn't make any difference if someone close to me were directly effected by the capture of a criminal, but the honest comparison is dozens of lives to thousands and thou
    • This is correct. Another way of looking at this is that spammers take let's say 1 minute per day of time to deal with. They take it from 100,000,000 people. In one year, they have taken 36e9 minutes from others. A human lifetime is approximately 40,000,000 minutes long. So they have wasted 1000 lifetimes per year. They ARE mass murderers! (Or worse, the imprison people their entire lives!)

    • I can only agree. At some point the annoyance of some number of people has to go beyond the killing of only one. I don't know what that number is but I know spammers have more than crossed it.
  • There's something about the title to this article that brings to mind Boba Fett going after the bounty. It's just nice to imagine him swooping in undetected, catching a spammer off-guard, and getting his man. I wouldn't mind a little carbonite freezing action either as the true evil of the universe are returned to the authorities, but then again I've let my fantasies get the better of me.
  • i guess the editors thought this story was so important that they had to remind us repeatedly [slashdot.org].

    personally, i'm looking forward to the third dupe repost of this same story.

    anyone know the record for dupe stories on /. ?
  • If they passed a law to eliminate spam instead of the I-CAN-SPAM act, there would not bee a need for a bounty.

    If the feds had a law similar to California, people and companies can bring private lawsuits against spammers for $1,000/spam. No need for bounties.

  • Dig this excerpt from the end of that article:

    But the idea may be premature, according to the Direct Marketing Association, the largest trade group for direct and interactive marketers.

    The group believes it would be wise to give the law and law enforcement efforts more time to work before "rushing into a system like this," spokesman Louis Mastria said.

    Seems like the corporate media is always willing to give corporations and their lobbies plenty of slack, always ready to bend over backwards for them.

  • but what do we do with them once we catch them? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Wilk4 ( 632760 ) on Friday September 17, 2004 @01:23PM (#10278839) Homepage
    I know we all have our personal lists of the things we'd like to do to spammers ;-) but until someone can effectively prosecute them on it what's the point of catching them?

    The laws are pitiful and full of loopholes built in by the direct marketing lobbyists, and even Eliot Spitzer has mostly given the spammers he's prosecuted mere slaps on the wrist.

    If I were a spammer, I'd have a friend turn me in for the reward, take the minimal risk that anyone could actually prosecute me on it, then split the reward with the friend. Sounds like instant profit to me...

    ... and probably an easier way to "make money fast" ;-) than actually spamming...

    For that matter, such a scheme could work well enough to bring new people into the spamming field just to turn themselves in...

    • I'd have a friend turn me in for the reward, take the minimal risk that anyone could actually prosecute me on it

      Most (all?) of these bounty type rewards are predicated on successful prosecution. So, split it three ways with the prosecutor to agree to some probationary sentence...
    • I know we all have our personal lists of the things we'd like to do to spammers ;-)

      Oh, you betcha. I'm thinking of something out of "A Clockwork Orange." Force the spammer to watch 2000 hours of the worlds worst television commercials and infomercials -- set to Shania Twain, Britney, or something even more insipid if it can be found.

  • Is this like ye olde bounties on ye rats and snakes and stuff, where you got paid for the skins?

    If so, I'm in, dammit. Killin' me some spammers would make my year!

  • No, this is not a bleeding heart "what about the hungry" post... If we risk the assumption that funds are set aside in a budget for this and can only be used for this, wouldn't it be better to spend those funds on building a new email system and helping vendors provide easy migration to the new system? I think fighting spam is a lost cause as long as the technology allows it, and tacking on various odd bits to the technology doesn't really resolve the core problems.

    If I have to suffer yet another misguid

  • Interstingly enough is that it is 'higher than rewards in most high-profile criminal and terrorism cases.

    Even though the potential for harm for the top 10 is bigger (in terms of murder, etc), unless the person is a terrorist plotting large-scale attacks, the economic damage from a spammer would be much larger. This argument would have been a lot more convincing four years ago.

    Still, if it gets rid of all those v!@gr@ ads, I'm all for it.

  • Hey, Timothy! (Score:4, Funny)

    by ceeam ( 39911 ) on Friday September 17, 2004 @01:34PM (#10278955)
    CowboyNeal had a first post on this story!

  • I'd do it (Score:3, Insightful)

    by GoClick ( 775762 ) on Friday September 17, 2004 @01:35PM (#10278964)
    I'd rat out just about anyone for spamming for like $1000. let alone 100x that.

    Although oddly I don't have a problem with well focused spam. I dont' mind getting spam from my regional compeditors and suppliers. But knock off Pfizer products is a little annoying.
  • HELLO!! the internet isnt all american. a bounty will work in the US. But will it with in the czech republic. What about spammers in thailand, china and anywhere else. These bounties wont work as a solution long term.

  • Did this story yesterday. [slashdot.org] Late yesterday. It's still in the "older stuff" list. The Slashdot "editors" aren't even reading their own front page now.

    Maybe the Slashdot editors could be replaced by the Google news engine, with a different set of priority rules. Then Slashdot could go on full auto. Might work better.

  • Interstingly enough is that it is 'higher than rewards in most high-profile criminal and terrorism cases.'

    What did you expect? Violent crime usually only affects people in ghettos and inner cities. Spam affects everyone -- including a bunch of fat old white men who control the wealth and power in this country. Therefore it's a more important crime to impose stiff penalties for.

    Don't blame me, I voted Libertarian. You want more of this type of crap, go ahead and re-select Bushoco this year.

  • Zombies (Score:2)

    by hank ( 294 )
    How does this affect zombies? Will little ol' grandmothers and 6-year old boys have an e-bounty on their head because they didn't properly patch their systems?

  • $100,000? Not bad (Score:5, Funny)

    by theonetruekeebler ( 60888 ) on Friday September 17, 2004 @02:21PM (#10279412) Homepage Journal
    Now, is that just for the pelt, or do I have to bring in the whole spammer?

  • Slashdot: Subscribe Now! (Score:3, Funny)

    by denttford ( 579202 ) on Friday September 17, 2004 @02:21PM (#10279414) Homepage
    The next Slashdot story will be ready soon, but subscribers can beat the rush and pay to see yesterday's stories again!
  • It's not as if the FCC is going to go after spam from say the phone company or the 20 largest contributors to the Bush campaign. No the little guys'l get squashed "for the children..."
  • ... who write laws that effectively stop spammers? Writing legislation on commission, what a novel concept! Oh, woops, I almost forgot, that's what big-money lobbyists offer all the time.
  • Spam, as a criminal activity, affects way more people directly than most other serious offenses. When you look at murder, for example, say one person kills another. That is obviously one victim. Add to that everyone that that person knows, and on average that crime affected ~ 100 people (making the math easy)? If that killer makes the 10 most wanted, there may be a $50,000 bounty out. That would be about $500 / person affected.

    Look at spam then. One message goes out to 10 million addresses. Then m

  • Return the stolen wealth... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Cheerio Boy ( 82178 ) on Friday September 17, 2004 @02:47PM (#10279704) Homepage Journal
    While I doubt it would happen, I would like to see spammers punished in other ways as well as the big bounty.

    Divide the spammer's current net-worth - minus the minimum amount to live for one year - then liquidate and distribute it to everyone that received the spam. Or as many as can be reached after much effort. Make doing this a requirement for the spammer to keep out of federal prison. Make them show progress like an unemployed person has to show progress.

    After one year if the person has not found a replacement job of any type or has gone back to spamming then induct them into a government menial job or military service in a non-combat role.


    Not an ideal solution but it would at least re-distribute the wealth stolen by these spammers. You'll never get the time back though...

  • I'll take a cheque please.... (Score:3, Funny)

    by Andy_R ( 114137 ) on Friday September 17, 2004 @03:00PM (#10279831) Homepage Journal
    Alan M. Ralsky
    6747 Minnow Pond Dr.
    West Bloomfield, MI 48322-2663
    248-926-0688
    amr777@comcast.net
  • This reminds me of ole Dilbert strip about PHB reward system for finding bugs in software...

    Wally said: I'm going to write me a minivan.
  • More frivolous federal spending!

    I can't believe people still think this administration is "conservative."
  • Just one question: Will I have to turn in the entire spammer, or will the pelt be enough?

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