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Security United States Technology

High-Altitude 'Security Blimps' Coming Soon 378

Posted by michael from the sky-is-the-limit dept.
quackking writes "The AP is reporting (in New York Newsday) that the Georgia Tech spinoff company TechSphere has sold their concept of immense (300 foot diameter), high altitude spherical surveillance blimps to the honchos at Fort Benning, GA, and production is beginning now! (more here.) These things are as big as a 30-story building. Meanwhile Lockheed-Martin is working on gigantic 500-foot long robot blimps, (and more here.) This would be 25 times the size of the well-known Goodyear blimp. Says Mayor Don Plusquellic, 'For Akron, it's a very emotional thing.'"
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High-Altitude 'Security Blimps' Coming Soon More

High-Altitude 'Security Blimps' Coming Soon

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  • wee! More cash for armament. (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 27, 2004 @05:04PM (#8989422)

    "Our Proud & Patriotic Security Blimps will roam the country in Freedom Flotillas keeping evildoers at bay."

    - John Ashcroft

  • Yeah, um (Score:3, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 27, 2004 @05:04PM (#8989423)
    In America, You watch Good Year Security Blimp!

  • Bummer. (Score:3, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 27, 2004 @05:04PM (#8989426)
    Security Blimps? And here I thought they were going to use the blimps to display something like: "Run Windows Update, People Who Own Spam-Bot Zombie Computers!"

  • Bounce wireless off big brother... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by KodaK ( 5477 ) <`sakodak' `at' `gmail.com'> on Tuesday April 27, 2004 @05:04PM (#8989427) Homepage
    Hey, fine. As long as we get to put an antenna on it and use it for wireless access.

    • Re:Bounce wireless off big brother... (Score:5, Interesting)

      by bplipschitz ( 265300 ) on Tuesday April 27, 2004 @05:09PM (#8989477)
      Hey, fine. As long as we get to put an antenna on it and use it for wireless access.

      Hey, if it has an aluminized skin [or mylar or similar], you won't *need* an aerial to bounce signals off of it. Use your Pringles Can aerial, aim at blimp, and they bounce right off.

    • Re:Bounce wireless off big brother... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by The_Mystic_For_Real ( 766020 ) on Tuesday April 27, 2004 @05:15PM (#8989558)
      In the article it says that they will be used by the telecommunications industry. It does not specify what they will be used for but it states that the key ability involved is the ability to remain over one spot. I would imagine they could use it as a temporary transmiter in areas that have lost wireless communications services.
      • I would imagine they could use it as a temporary transmiter in areas that have lost wireless communications services.

        Not just areas that have lost communications, but areas that have sudden spikes in demand, such as concerts or protests. Or the Olympics. Why build out twenty new cell sites to handle an extra few million people for just two weeks?

  • Techology has gone full circle (Score:5, Insightful)

    by StateOfTheUnion ( 762194 ) on Tuesday April 27, 2004 @05:05PM (#8989435) Homepage
    Weren't surveillance blimps all the rage during WW-I ? . . . Nearly a century later and we've gone full circle . . .

    • I didn't realise until recently that the first "air force" consisted of hot-air balloons used during the US Civil War.

      Balloons were still being used, by the way, during WW-II - at least over British cities. And IIRC Japan used fire-balloons against Hawaii?

      • Re:Techology has gone full circle (Score:5, Informative)

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 27, 2004 @05:26PM (#8989684)
        And IIRC Japan used fire-balloons against Hawaii?

        No, not just against Hawaii. They sent hundreds (or thousands?) of hydrogen balloons, to which they had attached simple fire bomb(s) towards mainland US. Intention was to try to start forest firest and other damages, and in general create terror in civilian population (ie. demoralize enemy). There was a very interesting documentary about that campaign; campaign itself was VERY top secret during WWII (esp. on US side). For once censorship did succeed; it (lack of news related to balloons) convinced japanese that plan wasn't working. Too bad there were actual casualties -- in couple of cases kids died when they went to look into funny balloons drifting in places like Montana and Wyoming. :-/

        Wish I had link; I think you should find link to it from some PBS web site. There was also a map that had locations of every known instance of such a balloon found... and there were quite a few pins on it.

      • Re:Techology has gone full circle (Score:5, Informative)

        by Dr Caleb ( 121505 ) on Tuesday April 27, 2004 @05:27PM (#8989697) Homepage Journal
        One Japanese balloon landed in Oregon, killing 2 people. The only casualties by Japan in the continental US during WWII.

        • Re:Techology has gone full circle (Score:5, Informative)

          by jasoncart ( 573937 ) on Tuesday April 27, 2004 @05:44PM (#8989910) Homepage
          6 people according to this source [seanet.com].

        • Wow. I had an idea that there might have been an attack against the continental US, but thought it sounded too far-fetched. Thanks for the info.

        • I think every town in coastal california has a local story about a Zero that crashed in cousin Zeke's back yard or in the strawberry patch back in '42. All "friend of a friend" type stories, of course.
        • Except it wasn't a surveilance balloon. The Japanese designed a number of balloons loaded with explosives, the idea being to release them into the gulf stream, which would carry them to the continental US. The one you mentioned was the only one that managed to do any damage, but that was just because the Japanese failed to correctly estimate some of the navagational factors involved.

        • Re:Techology has gone full circle (Score:4, Informative)

          by QuantumRiff ( 120817 ) on Tuesday April 27, 2004 @06:30PM (#8990463)
          Actually, it was 4 or 6, the memorial plaque is about 5 miles from here (Klamath Falls, OR, the land that god forgot!), in a park up in the woods. There are aparently still some nasty gashes in the big tree from the shrapnel. A family went out for a picnic, and the kids found something neat, and playing with it caused it to go off.

          Keep in mind that thousands of these were launched, and only a few hundred were found, many of them are probably still sitting around on the west coast..

          There was also a japanese plane that launced from a sub, and tried to drop incediaries in the forest of the oregon coast mountain range. Of course, forest fires don't happen in Oregon in winter, we don't tan, we rust!!

          Oh, and a torpedo was launched from a japanese sub at Camp Rilea (Spelling??, now a national gaurd base) but they didn't take into account the slow slope of the beach, and the torpedo just ran up on the beach and never went off.

      • Re:Techology has gone full circle (Score:4, Interesting)

        by Deadstick ( 535032 ) on Tuesday April 27, 2004 @09:04PM (#8991979)
        Thaddeus Lowe, grandfather of "Pancho" Barnes of "The Right Stuff" fame, provided balloon-borne reconnaissance services to the Union Army as a contractor, until he quit the deal in disgust over corrupt contract management in the Army.

        Germany used Zeppelins (aka dirigibles) in WW1 for reconnaissance and a small (though dramatic) amount of bombing. As a result of this, the US, which had the only known source of helium in those days, refused to sell it to Germany after the war, which led directly to the Hindenburg disaster. (Yeah, yeah, I know the combustible-fabric story, and if you believe it you can still buy aircraft fabric and aluminized dope and find out for yourself how much of a fire it makes in the absence of hydrogen!)

        British cities used "barrage balloons," unmanned balloons tethered over cities by steel cables intended to snag low-flying bombers in WW2.

        The entire US coastline and much of the Caribbean were patrolled during WW2 by Navy blimps (and a very few dirigibles) which were ideal for finding and destroying U-Boats -- a capability which can be explored by googling "Brewster angle".

        The Japanese fire balloons were aimed at the continental US...Hawaii would be much too small a target to hit. Quite a few reached the States -- I believe one got as far as a Chicago suburb -- but the gubmint pressured police, fire departments and news media to cover up the events as far as possible; there were no really big fires set, and the lack of publicity caused the Japanese to drop the project for lack of apparent results.

        rj
    • They were Zeppelins/Dirigibles. To be perfectly honest, I don't understand why they're trying to build giant balloons instead of rigid airships. Rigid airships are easier to engineer, have better compartmentalizing/redundancy, and can be easily built to massive proportions. Instead we'd rather have a single inflatable bag the size of the Empire State Building.

      Am I the only one who's a little surprised by their choice?

      • In the article they refer to it as a sperical airship . . . I'm not sure that it isn;'t compartmentalized and redundant. They claim that it can remain in one place which implies some engine/driving force . . .
      • Although I couldn't tell you why blimps have gained favor, I'm not surprised. Even the resurected Zeppelin company has been making blimps:
        Zeppelin NT images gallery [zeppelin-nt.de]

        BTM

      • Re:Techology has gone full circle (Score:5, Informative)

        by dbrower ( 114953 ) on Tuesday April 27, 2004 @09:51PM (#8992298) Journal
        Yes, you are the only one surprised by use of a blimp instead of a rigid airship.

        Rigid airships are a lot more complicated to build structurally, since they are carrying a bunch of rigid structure that does nothing to generate lift and can bend and break under stress. Blimps are not just one big ballon, but can and are compartmentalized for disaster containment. Blimps were built in large numbers during WWII as patrol craft, and operated in the US Navy in that role up to sometime in the 1960s. The USN gave up on rigid airships in the 30s, essentially after the Shenandoah went down in a storm.

        Balloons are not blimps because they don't have maneuvering engines. A spherical blimp would have engines that move it, making it more than a balloon.

        (An untethered Kite or parachute with an engine is called an ultralight, or an airplane)

        One of the big issues with these proposals has been power generation and storage. The solar generators that are light enough and flexible to go on a blimp body have tended to be low efficiency compared to heavier crystal cells, according to this [sciencedaily.com], though there are claims here [newscientist.com] that new products can do nearly as well.

        Batteries are notoriously heavy, so it's a tradeoff that hasn't been economically possible yet. Things need to be efficient, light, reliable, and cheap enough. The proposed HAA is still using old lead-acid batteries! I guess this works if there is enough helium, and low enough power demand (related to low wind speed to fight).

        here [rocketmanblog.com] is an article that describes this in more detail.

        -dB

    • Yes, there were observation blimps as far back as the American Civil War.

      I think this technology is under-utilized. A friend of mine from Alaska bid to provide materials for the Trans-Alaska Gas pipeline and crane services by using blimps. He felt he could cut millions off the estimated bill and eliminate the need for a truck road by using blimps. Needless to say, no visionaries were on the bid committee.

      Blimps should be ideal for overland hauling, and they could make a great platform for cranes in man

    • Finally, the strategic helium reserve gets a use! (Score:5, Interesting)

      by silentbozo ( 542534 ) on Tuesday April 27, 2004 @05:36PM (#8989806) Journal
      Not only were both rigid-body airships and blimps everywhere, helium was declared a strategic war material. A National Helium Reserve [agiweb.org] was established in 1925, and we've been sitting on stockpiles of the stuff ever since. Finally, it will get used for its intended purpose (hopefully...)
    • Actually, hot air balloons [sonofthesouth.net] were used [centennialofflight.gov] as far back as the US civil war. (Sites include photos).

    • Re:Techology has gone full circle (Score:5, Informative)

      by Slack3r78 ( 596506 ) on Tuesday April 27, 2004 @05:48PM (#8989973) Homepage
      I live in Columbus, GA, which is basically the city Ft. Benning is located directly next to. Benning kids go to Columbus schools, I have many friends that live on post, etc.

      A little background - Ft. Benning is the largest permanent military installation anywhere in the world, taking up a full Georgia county. It's the home of the Infantry, and if you know anyone who's gone through jump training, regardless of branch of the military, they probably came through Benning. The place is huge, and is covered with trees, the majority of the land being undeveloped and used for firing ranges, survival training, etc.

      I can see why they'd be interested in something like this; Benning is literally just too big to be fenced in like most military bases in this country. Depending on how much this costs to operate, it could be a very efficient way to keep the base at least a little bit more secure, which I see as a good thing.

      Just thought I'd chip in with a local perspective. :)
  • Funny, I'm graduating from Ma Tech next year and I've never heard of TechSphere... are they some GTRI geeks or what?

  • You are Number 6. (Score:5, Funny)

    by trix_e ( 202696 ) on Tuesday April 27, 2004 @05:07PM (#8989464)
    admittedly I didn't look at the site... but thinking about giant security blimps reminded me of the "guards"...

  • The logical conclusion (Score:5, Funny)

    by Nick of NSTime ( 597712 ) on Tuesday April 27, 2004 @05:07PM (#8989465)
    Soon, a stout steamer will carry all of our correspondence be-tween the United States and the British Empire, reducing communication time to a scant six weeks! Huzzah!

  • So yeah. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 27, 2004 @05:09PM (#8989485)
    References to "1984" have become so common and hackeneyed these days that it's become kind of like the second order version of Godwin's Law or something. I'll agree with this.

    But is this a reasonable time to start referencing 1984, now that they've started implementing actual plot devices from 1984 (the surveillance helicopters) in real life??

    • Re:So yeah. (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      I think you're mistaken in calling the helicopters from 1984 a "plot device", since that is a metaphorical term for the authors tools in moving the plot along, which the security helicopters were really not.

      However I agree with your thoughts. 1984 quotes are so rampant now that it's cliche, which sickens me because it's all true as day and in everyones faces.
      Guess what? Nothings going to change. The only thing that you will see interrupt this downward spiral of our current civilization is a complete uph
    • I already posted on this, but it's worth repeating again - Ft. Benning is HUGE. It takes up an entire country in GA. The fact is, even with several of these blimps, I doubt they'd be able to cover more than a fraction of the base's total landmass. Benning is mostly trees and forest, so it's not like we're talking about being in the middle of a major urban center, even though it does neighbor Columbus, GA (city of about 275,000).

      I'm as big of a privacy advocate as anyone, but I see nothing disturbing about
    • > is this a reasonable time to start referencing 1984, now that they've started implementing actual plot devices from 1984 (the surveillance helicopters) in real life??

      Excuse me? In what way are 500-foot-diameter blimps like helicopters? They're big. Round. Like... I dunno... like... eyes! Big... electric... eyes! Yeaaaaaaaaaaahhhh!

      <airguitar>

      Up here in space,
      I'm looking down on you. My lasers trace
      Everything you do.
      You think you've private lives
      Think nothing of the kind.
      There is n

  • Starcraft (Score:5, Funny)

    by nuclear305 ( 674185 ) * on Tuesday April 27, 2004 @05:09PM (#8989486)
    ....Does anyone else hear some spooky voice saying 'Must Spawn More Overlords!'

    Maybe this is all just a mass coverup to crashing alien craft. The numbers of crashed alien vessels has increased to the point where we need to make sure we have enough high alt. blimps cruising around so that we can claim one crashed!

  • Frickin Beautiful Legalese (Score:3, Interesting)

    by WwWonka ( 545303 ) on Tuesday April 27, 2004 @05:10PM (#8989494)
    From the TechsSphere page on the project:

    This release contains statements that constitute forward-looking statements. These statements appear in a number of places in this release and include all statements that are not statements of historical fact regarding the intent, belief or current expectations of the Company, its directors or its officers with respect to, among other things: (i) the Company's financing plans; (ii) trends affecting the Company's financial condition or results of operations; (iii) the Company's growth strategy and operating strategy; and (iv) the declaration and payment of dividends. The words may, would, will, expect, estimate, anticipate, believe, intend, and similar expressions and variations thereof are intended to identify forward-looking statements. Investors are cautioned that any such forward-looking statements are not guarantees of future performance and involve risks and uncertainties, many of which are beyond the Company's ability to control, and that actual results may differ materially from those projected in the forward-looking statements as a result of various factors.

    Man sometimes the beauty of legal double talk brings tears to thine eyes...***sniff sniff***
    • Its pretty clear.

      We the company want to make a metric buttload of money by parting you, the smuck investor from your money. To achieve this we will promise you the earth and if you are dumb enough to believe it, you can fuck off after we have your cash.

  • It's emotional for Akron ... (Score:5, Informative)

    by s20451 ( 410424 ) on Tuesday April 27, 2004 @05:10PM (#8989495) Journal
    ... perhaps because one of the original US military airships was the USS Akron [nlhs.com]?

    These blimps were actually aircraft carriers. Akron's sister ship, USS Macon [moffettfieldmuseum.org], once "dive-bombed" a Navy ship carrying President Roosevelt, dropping a bundle of newspapers for his reading. The stunt was intended to prove the worth of aircraft against ship targets.

    • Re:It's emotional for Akron ... (Score:5, Interesting)

      by john82 ( 68332 ) on Tuesday April 27, 2004 @05:45PM (#8989917)
      As a native of Akron, I can tell you that blimps are an emotional issue with residents of the region. We associate blimps with Goodyear and, by extension, the rubber companies. Prior to the late 1970s, Akron was the rubber capital of the world. There were scores of tire manufacturing plants. Likely as not, your father owed his job directly or indirectly to the rubber industry (either he worked in the plants, sold goods and services to the plants, or sold goods and services to people who worked in the plants). The rubber industry was the focal point of local pride.

      Then the rubber union went on strike one last time... *poof*

      NO more tires made in Akron. Tens of thousands of jobs eliminated. The whole local economy went in the sewer for the next 25 years.

      Akron is just starting to come back. But in the minds of the those of us from Akron, anyone's blimp makes us think of the real thing (a Goodyear blimp) and the good old days.

  • Ha! (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 27, 2004 @05:11PM (#8989502)

    I've got them both beat... I'm working on a sport-utility blimp that's nearly the size of Australia!! The only problem I have so far is that it's a little hard to maneuver around smaller blimps.
  • What is the range of a RPG?

  • Security Cloud Cover? (Score:5, Funny)

    by pickapeppa ( 731249 ) on Tuesday April 27, 2004 @05:12PM (#8989516)
    Just think though, with enough robotic blimps spying on us, the satelites won't be able to see us. Will this mean I'll need to build a new kind of aluminum foil hat?

  • Americans spying on Americans (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Ars-Fartsica ( 166957 ) on Tuesday April 27, 2004 @05:12PM (#8989522)
    The next trend will be finding "coldspots" instead of "hotspots" - places you can go to live freely outside of the benevolent observation of the government.

  • AD space (Score:2, Funny)

    by xraylima ( 769632 )
    Maybe large multi-nationals can sponser these blimps and fly them over sporting events. Wouldn't that be grand.
    • In the UK, the telephone mobile operator "Orange" has a bright orange blimp with .. you guessed it, the word "ORANGE" on the side. Usually, it can be seen floating around major organised events. On one occasion this meant it was orbiting past our house. Looking out of the window, it would be there, look again, and it was gone, then it was back, then it was gone, then it was back, then it was gone. If there was anything that wanted to be a floating target, that was it.

  • Well, Okay... (Score:4, Funny)

    by Billy the Mountain ( 225541 ) on Tuesday April 27, 2004 @05:15PM (#8989551) Journal
    but only if they fill them with Hydrogen!

    BTM

  • Two questions (Score:3, Interesting)

    by dargaud ( 518470 ) <slashdot2@@@gdargaud...net> on Tuesday April 27, 2004 @05:18PM (#8989586) Homepage
    • If they are this big, won't any idiot with a gun be able to shoot them down ? Kinds of defeats the purpose if they are meant for surveillance
    • I thought helium resources were pretty limited on the Earth. Were are they gonna get all this helium ?

  • Homeland Security (Score:5, Interesting)

    by maxdamage ( 615250 ) on Tuesday April 27, 2004 @05:18PM (#8989590) Journal
    Notice [techspheresystems.com] their plan for using the blimps for homeland security. Notice the lack of ballons to the north. Do we trust canadians now? (j/k) But seriously, what happends when somone flys over canadian air space and around the blimps?

    • Re:Homeland Security (Score:3, Interesting)

      by ThingOne ( 578618 )
      They have used blimps in the past to monitor drug traffic from the south. Its called the TARS [noaa.gov] Program (and here [af.mil]. These blimps have been operational since the 1980's. (1984?). This new program is like an updated TARS program.
  • You have to wonder how many reports will come in about giant ships with lights hovering overhead.
    • The blindingly bright advertising and public service announcements that run down the sides all hours of the night would be a dead give-away.
    • Aren't "security blimps" and "weather balloons" just a cover for the real UFO's anyway. Shhhhh, they can hear us.
  • License the booming voice of Vincent Price, launch the blimps and proclaim you are the Master of the World!
  • Jon Stewert did a bit on this a few months ago. He kept citing the report titled Hey, what if we put a camera on a blimp and the more detailed report Hey, what if we put a good camera on a blimp.

    • Re:Daily Show (Score:3, Funny)

      by Tackhead ( 54550 )
      > Jon Stewert did a bit on this a few months ago. He kept citing the report titled Hey, what if we put a camera on a blimp and the more detailed report Hey, what if we put a good camera on a blimp.

      What if we put a frickin' las--- oh, never mind...

  • I for one welcome our new robotic blimp overseers.
  • Fort Benning is also home to the "Western Hemisphere Institute for Security Cooperation," [soaw.org] previously known as School of the Americas.

    It also earned the nickname of "School of the Assasins" after training Latin American soldiers in such fields as "interrogation techniques" (torture), counterinsurgency techniques and psychological warfare.

    Every year, protesters converge on the SOA and "cross the line" and get arrested, a mass protest to bring attention to this institutions horrible record. It is unlikely a
    • It is unlikely a surveillance blimp will deter many, but the first thought I had was that there had to be a link. The base may want to be able to identify more of those protesters that have only supporting roles and stay well behind the confrontation?

      Next time, try a better grade of aluminum foil for your hat.
  • BEN: That's no moon! That's a Security Blimp!

  • Spherical blimps? (Score:3, Funny)

    by Lars T. ( 470328 ) <Lars,Traeger&googlemail,com> on Tuesday April 27, 2004 @05:31PM (#8989744) Journal
    Gee, why don't they call them balloons?
  • Out here in western USA, we get loads of wild fires. rather than flying tankers and people, it would be very useful to use these to get huge volumes of water in. In addition, they may be able to drop off fighters in close to the action.

    Now, lets hope that somebody does not come up with the idea of using hydrogen and doping for this.
  • ...can be found here [blade-runner.it]. Other companies were interested, but showing commercials 13 miles above the earth kinda defeated the purpose.
  • a more useful [aol.com] purpose.
  • Before someone gets killed with one of them randomly pops and comes back?

    Suppose someone shot a high-power CO2 laser at it and cut the thing open from 50 miles away on the ground? (They really do sell 700 watt CO2 lasers on E-Bay)

    At any rate, I don't care as long as the keep the damned things AWAY from Frazier Park; It's the only dark sky site within an hours drive of me.

  • Aerostat, anyone? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Mononoke ( 88668 ) on Tuesday April 27, 2004 @05:57PM (#8990081) Homepage Journal
    Sounds just like a larger implementation of the not-too-sucessful Aerostat [fas.org] program they tried along the Southern borders of the US.

  • Shooting down the blimp (Score:5, Informative)

    by Experiment 626 ( 698257 ) on Tuesday April 27, 2004 @06:04PM (#8990154)

    There have been several posts to the effect of "what a big target, anyone with a gun could shoot these down". Consider the physics of this for a moment.

    A Magnum-powered hunting rifle has a muzzle velocity of around 2,000 mph (You could try using an AK or such, but these are going to be considerably lower velocity). With the high-altitude blimps flying at 65,000 feet per the article, your shot would hit it in about 22 seconds, were it not for two things:

    The first is gravity. 32.2 feet per second squared downward acceleration. Vith v^2/2*g = 131,400 feet maximum height, there is high enough initial velocity to hit the blimp.

    The second problem, however, is air resistance. The aforementioned bullet loses half its velocity within the first 1,800 feet or so even in level flight, and continues to slow down from there.

    Between these two considerations, there is no way for a bullet (except maybe from a huge cannon) to hit something that is 65,000 feet up in the air.

    Even if you did hit it, a blimp is not going to suddenly pop like a rubber balloon. You might get lucky and hit a motor or some other critical component, but just hitting the surface of the blimp (which is what makes it such a big target) is just going to put a 1/3" hole in something as big as a skyscraper, and make it leak at a negligible rate.

  • For the people (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Kelz ( 611260 ) on Tuesday April 27, 2004 @06:43PM (#8990610)
    that weren't required to read it in high school and are wondering what all these double-plus-ungood and 'big brother' comments are, check this [amazon.com] out.

    There was once a time where everyone on /. would know this.

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