High-Altitude 'Security Blimps' Coming Soon 378
quackking writes "The AP is reporting (in New York Newsday) that the Georgia Tech spinoff company TechSphere has sold their concept of immense (300 foot diameter), high altitude spherical surveillance blimps to the honchos at Fort Benning, GA, and production is beginning now! (more here.) These things are as big as a 30-story building. Meanwhile Lockheed-Martin is working on gigantic 500-foot long robot blimps, (and more here.) This would be 25 times the size of the well-known Goodyear blimp. Says Mayor Don Plusquellic, 'For Akron, it's a very emotional thing.'"
wee! More cash for armament. (Score:5, Funny)
"Our Proud & Patriotic Security Blimps will roam the country in Freedom Flotillas keeping evildoers at bay."
- John Ashcroft
Re:wee! More cash for armament. (Score:4, Funny)
Yeah, um (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Yeah, um (Score:3, Funny)
Vote for Kerry.
Bummer. (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Bummer. (Score:5, Funny)
Start an exciting new life on the outer planets!"
Re:Bummer. (Score:2)
Start an exciting new life on the outer planets!"
Let's go... to the colonies! *
* This message brought to you by the Shimada-Dominguez Corporation.
Re:Bummer. (Score:5, Funny)
Bounce wireless off big brother... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Bounce wireless off big brother... (Score:5, Interesting)
Hey, if it has an aluminized skin [or mylar or similar], you won't *need* an aerial to bounce signals off of it. Use your Pringles Can aerial, aim at blimp, and they bounce right off.
Re:Bounce wireless off big brother... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Bounce wireless off big brother... (Score:2)
Not just areas that have lost communications, but areas that have sudden spikes in demand, such as concerts or protests. Or the Olympics. Why build out twenty new cell sites to handle an extra few million people for just two weeks?
Re:Bounce wireless off big brother... (Score:3, Interesting)
Techology has gone full circle (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Techology has gone full circle (Score:2)
I didn't realise until recently that the first "air force" consisted of hot-air balloons used during the US Civil War.
Balloons were still being used, by the way, during WW-II - at least over British cities. And IIRC Japan used fire-balloons against Hawaii?
Re:Techology has gone full circle (Score:5, Informative)
No, not just against Hawaii. They sent hundreds (or thousands?) of hydrogen balloons, to which they had attached simple fire bomb(s) towards mainland US. Intention was to try to start forest firest and other damages, and in general create terror in civilian population (ie. demoralize enemy). There was a very interesting documentary about that campaign; campaign itself was VERY top secret during WWII (esp. on US side). For once censorship did succeed; it (lack of news related to balloons) convinced japanese that plan wasn't working. Too bad there were actual casualties -- in couple of cases kids died when they went to look into funny balloons drifting in places like Montana and Wyoming. :-/
Wish I had link; I think you should find link to it from some PBS web site. There was also a map that had locations of every known instance of such a balloon found... and there were quite a few pins on it.
Re:Techology has gone full circle (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Techology has gone full circle (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Techology has gone full circle (Score:2)
Wow. I had an idea that there might have been an attack against the continental US, but thought it sounded too far-fetched. Thanks for the info.
that's what they want you to think.... (Score:2)
Re:Techology has gone full circle (Score:2)
Re:Techology has gone full circle (Score:4, Informative)
Keep in mind that thousands of these were launched, and only a few hundred were found, many of them are probably still sitting around on the west coast..
There was also a japanese plane that launced from a sub, and tried to drop incediaries in the forest of the oregon coast mountain range. Of course, forest fires don't happen in Oregon in winter, we don't tan, we rust!!
Oh, and a torpedo was launched from a japanese sub at Camp Rilea (Spelling??, now a national gaurd base) but they didn't take into account the slow slope of the beach, and the torpedo just ran up on the beach and never went off.
Re:Techology has gone full circle (Score:4, Interesting)
Germany used Zeppelins (aka dirigibles) in WW1 for reconnaissance and a small (though dramatic) amount of bombing. As a result of this, the US, which had the only known source of helium in those days, refused to sell it to Germany after the war, which led directly to the Hindenburg disaster. (Yeah, yeah, I know the combustible-fabric story, and if you believe it you can still buy aircraft fabric and aluminized dope and find out for yourself how much of a fire it makes in the absence of hydrogen!)
British cities used "barrage balloons," unmanned balloons tethered over cities by steel cables intended to snag low-flying bombers in WW2.
The entire US coastline and much of the Caribbean were patrolled during WW2 by Navy blimps (and a very few dirigibles) which were ideal for finding and destroying U-Boats -- a capability which can be explored by googling "Brewster angle".
The Japanese fire balloons were aimed at the continental US...Hawaii would be much too small a target to hit. Quite a few reached the States -- I believe one got as far as a Chicago suburb -- but the gubmint pressured police, fire departments and news media to cover up the events as far as possible; there were no really big fires set, and the lack of publicity caused the Japanese to drop the project for lack of apparent results.
rj
Re:Techology has gone full circle (Score:5, Interesting)
Am I the only one who's a little surprised by their choice?
Re:Techology has gone full circle (Score:2)
Re:Techology has gone full circle (Score:2)
Would you be so kind as to expand on that? Perhaps I'm being dense, but I'm not sure how the fuel requirements would differ that much.
Re:Techology has gone full circle (Score:2)
Re:Techology has gone full circle (Score:2)
Re:Techology has gone full circle (Score:2)
Re:Techology has gone full circle (Score:2)
Zeppelin NT images gallery [zeppelin-nt.de]
BTM
Re:Techology has gone full circle (Score:5, Informative)
Rigid airships are a lot more complicated to build structurally, since they are carrying a bunch of rigid structure that does nothing to generate lift and can bend and break under stress. Blimps are not just one big ballon, but can and are compartmentalized for disaster containment. Blimps were built in large numbers during WWII as patrol craft, and operated in the US Navy in that role up to sometime in the 1960s. The USN gave up on rigid airships in the 30s, essentially after the Shenandoah went down in a storm.
Balloons are not blimps because they don't have maneuvering engines. A spherical blimp would have engines that move it, making it more than a balloon.
(An untethered Kite or parachute with an engine is called an ultralight, or an airplane)
One of the big issues with these proposals has been power generation and storage. The solar generators that are light enough and flexible to go on a blimp body have tended to be low efficiency compared to heavier crystal cells, according to this [sciencedaily.com], though there are claims here [newscientist.com] that new products can do nearly as well.
Batteries are notoriously heavy, so it's a tradeoff that hasn't been economically possible yet. Things need to be efficient, light, reliable, and cheap enough. The proposed HAA is still using old lead-acid batteries! I guess this works if there is enough helium, and low enough power demand (related to low wind speed to fight).
here [rocketmanblog.com] is an article that describes this in more detail.
-dB
Re:Techology has gone full circle (Score:2, Interesting)
I think this technology is under-utilized. A friend of mine from Alaska bid to provide materials for the Trans-Alaska Gas pipeline and crane services by using blimps. He felt he could cut millions off the estimated bill and eliminate the need for a truck road by using blimps. Needless to say, no visionaries were on the bid committee.
Blimps should be ideal for overland hauling, and they could make a great platform for cranes in man
Finally, the strategic helium reserve gets a use! (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Techology has gone full circle (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Techology has gone full circle (Score:5, Informative)
A little background - Ft. Benning is the largest permanent military installation anywhere in the world, taking up a full Georgia county. It's the home of the Infantry, and if you know anyone who's gone through jump training, regardless of branch of the military, they probably came through Benning. The place is huge, and is covered with trees, the majority of the land being undeveloped and used for firing ranges, survival training, etc.
I can see why they'd be interested in something like this; Benning is literally just too big to be fenced in like most military bases in this country. Depending on how much this costs to operate, it could be a very efficient way to keep the base at least a little bit more secure, which I see as a good thing.
Just thought I'd chip in with a local perspective.
Wha? (Score:2)
You are Number 6. (Score:5, Funny)
The logical conclusion (Score:5, Funny)
Re:The logical conclusion (Score:2, Funny)
Re:The logical conclusion (Score:4, Funny)
So yeah. (Score:5, Insightful)
But is this a reasonable time to start referencing 1984, now that they've started implementing actual plot devices from 1984 (the surveillance helicopters) in real life??
Re:So yeah. (Score:2, Insightful)
However I agree with your thoughts. 1984 quotes are so rampant now that it's cliche, which sickens me because it's all true as day and in everyones faces.
Guess what? Nothings going to change. The only thing that you will see interrupt this downward spiral of our current civilization is a complete uph
Oldspeak thought crime..... (Score:2)
Detain and erasure at MiniLuv (Gitmo)
Re:So yeah. (Score:2)
I'm as big of a privacy advocate as anyone, but I see nothing disturbing about
Protected. Detective. Electric. Eye! (Score:3, Interesting)
Excuse me? In what way are 500-foot-diameter blimps like helicopters? They're big. Round. Like... I dunno... like... eyes! Big... electric... eyes! Yeaaaaaaaaaaahhhh!
Starcraft (Score:5, Funny)
Maybe this is all just a mass coverup to crashing alien craft. The numbers of crashed alien vessels has increased to the point where we need to make sure we have enough high alt. blimps cruising around so that we can claim one crashed!
Re:Starcraft (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Starcraft (Score:3, Funny)
Frickin Beautiful Legalese (Score:3, Interesting)
This release contains statements that constitute forward-looking statements. These statements appear in a number of places in this release and include all statements that are not statements of historical fact regarding the intent, belief or current expectations of the Company, its directors or its officers with respect to, among other things: (i) the Company's financing plans; (ii) trends affecting the Company's financial condition or results of operations; (iii) the Company's growth strategy and operating strategy; and (iv) the declaration and payment of dividends. The words may, would, will, expect, estimate, anticipate, believe, intend, and similar expressions and variations thereof are intended to identify forward-looking statements. Investors are cautioned that any such forward-looking statements are not guarantees of future performance and involve risks and uncertainties, many of which are beyond the Company's ability to control, and that actual results may differ materially from those projected in the forward-looking statements as a result of various factors.
Man sometimes the beauty of legal double talk brings tears to thine eyes...***sniff sniff***
Re:Frickin Beautiful Legalese (Score:2)
We the company want to make a metric buttload of money by parting you, the smuck investor from your money. To achieve this we will promise you the earth and if you are dumb enough to believe it, you can fuck off after we have your cash.
It's emotional for Akron ... (Score:5, Informative)
These blimps were actually aircraft carriers. Akron's sister ship, USS Macon [moffettfieldmuseum.org], once "dive-bombed" a Navy ship carrying President Roosevelt, dropping a bundle of newspapers for his reading. The stunt was intended to prove the worth of aircraft against ship targets.
Re:It's emotional for Akron ... (Score:5, Interesting)
Then the rubber union went on strike one last time... *poof*
NO more tires made in Akron. Tens of thousands of jobs eliminated. The whole local economy went in the sewer for the next 25 years.
Akron is just starting to come back. But in the minds of the those of us from Akron, anyone's blimp makes us think of the real thing (a Goodyear blimp) and the good old days.
Ha! (Score:5, Funny)
I've got them both beat... I'm working on a sport-utility blimp that's nearly the size of Australia!! The only problem I have so far is that it's a little hard to maneuver around smaller blimps.
target? (Score:2)
Depends . . . Re:target? (Score:4, Funny)
Dungeons & Dragons v3.5 can reach about 1,240 yards but some some inexplicable reason is more popular.
The old Chivalry & Sorcery RPG had a range of nearly five miles, but figuring out how to shoot it could take years.
Security Cloud Cover? (Score:5, Funny)
Americans spying on Americans (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Americans spying on Americans (Score:2, Funny)
Most people here already have that covered. Now, if they'd only clean up the basement like their mothers keep asking they can be free of both parental harassment and goverment spying.
No problem... (Score:2)
AD space (Score:2, Funny)
Re:AD space (Score:2)
Well, Okay... (Score:4, Funny)
BTM
Two questions (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Two questions (Score:4, Informative)
Handguns are a non-started; you'ld need a large, specialized anti-aircraft gun to even think about it.
Look Dougal. Small cow, far away cow (Score:2)
Re:Two questions (Score:4, Interesting)
As far as shooting them down goes . . . one could easily shoot down an AWAC (large radio relay and surveilance plane) too, but they are escorted and/or fly near, but outside the combat theatre.
The intent of balloons/blimps is to keep them outside the theatre of combat . . . If it flies high enough, then one can use it to spy enemy activities past the horizon . . . or at least the horizon at ground level. In other words, at higher altitudes, one can see/snoop on radio transmissions/etc. further than at ground level due to the curvature of the earth . . . so even if you fly behind friendly lines, you can still spy on the enemy.
Re:Two questions (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Two questions (Score:3, Informative)
rtfa.
Floating about 13 miles above the earth and holding a stationary orbit for 12 to 18 months,
Sure, you got a gun that can shoot 13 miles straight up?
Re:Two questions (Score:2)
Re:Two questions (Score:4, Informative)
During the early age of the solar system, while planets were still unformed, the inital blazing (with a lot more flux in the solar wind) of the sun pushed most light materials into the outer solar system (very rough explanation, i know). Thats the reason why the inner planets are no gas planets to begin with.
Now step 2: There was still a lot of helium remaining, but as the lightest gas (after h_2), it went up in the athmosphere and off into space. Its a slow process, because the bolzmann distribution isnt likely to give a atom escape velocety, but it happens. And they had 4 billion years of time...
The result is that nearly all helium on earth is the result of alpha decay (thats the reason why natural gas, of all things, is the best source of helium, at least on some oilfields: helium tends to collet in the same spots than the gas while going of from deeper layers of the earth)
Re:Two questions (Score:2)
Not being a gun nut, could someone fill me in on what you'd need to shoot down a blimp at 65,000 feet?
Helium (Score:3, Informative)
Re:height is good (Score:3, Informative)
If you're standing at the edge of the water, the horizon is less than three miles away. At 30 feet, it's six and a half miles.
At 65000 feet, it's 314 miles away.
Homeland Security (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Homeland Security (Score:3, Interesting)
UFO! (Score:2)
NAHHH! (Score:2)
Re:UFO! (Score:2)
Jules Verne (Score:2)
Daily Show (Score:2)
Re:Daily Show (Score:3, Funny)
What if we put a frickin' las--- oh, never mind...
Welcome (Score:2)
To be first used against protesters (Score:2)
It also earned the nickname of "School of the Assasins" after training Latin American soldiers in such fields as "interrogation techniques" (torture), counterinsurgency techniques and psychological warfare.
Every year, protesters converge on the SOA and "cross the line" and get arrested, a mass protest to bring attention to this institutions horrible record. It is unlikely a
Re:To be first used against protesters (Score:2)
Next time, try a better grade of aluminum foil for your hat.
Revised script to "A New Hope" (Score:2, Funny)
Spherical blimps? (Score:3, Funny)
Security? How about fires? (Score:2)
Now, lets hope that somebody does not come up with the idea of using hydrogen and doping for this.
First sightings.... (Score:2)
Maybe they can use this for ... (Score:2)
How long... (Score:2)
Suppose someone shot a high-power CO2 laser at it and cut the thing open from 50 miles away on the ground? (They really do sell 700 watt CO2 lasers on E-Bay)
At any rate, I don't care as long as the keep the damned things AWAY from Frazier Park; It's the only dark sky site within an hours drive of me.
Aerostat, anyone? (Score:4, Insightful)
Shooting down the blimp (Score:5, Informative)
There have been several posts to the effect of "what a big target, anyone with a gun could shoot these down". Consider the physics of this for a moment.
A Magnum-powered hunting rifle has a muzzle velocity of around 2,000 mph (You could try using an AK or such, but these are going to be considerably lower velocity). With the high-altitude blimps flying at 65,000 feet per the article, your shot would hit it in about 22 seconds, were it not for two things:
The first is gravity. 32.2 feet per second squared downward acceleration. Vith v^2/2*g = 131,400 feet maximum height, there is high enough initial velocity to hit the blimp.
The second problem, however, is air resistance. The aforementioned bullet loses half its velocity within the first 1,800 feet or so even in level flight, and continues to slow down from there.
Between these two considerations, there is no way for a bullet (except maybe from a huge cannon) to hit something that is 65,000 feet up in the air.
Even if you did hit it, a blimp is not going to suddenly pop like a rubber balloon. You might get lucky and hit a motor or some other critical component, but just hitting the surface of the blimp (which is what makes it such a big target) is just going to put a 1/3" hole in something as big as a skyscraper, and make it leak at a negligible rate.
Re:Shooting down the blimp (Score:5, Insightful)
As the poster above said they would be above the range of guns. No significant heat signature so man-carried surface to air missles are out. And yes they do have to come down, but they launch straight up so, unlike fixed-wing aircraft, there is no long flight-path to guard.
A high-altitude radar guided surface to air missile would probably do the trick. But really, if therrorists are setting up radar systems and SAM batteries in your back-yard then you have more to worry about than having an unmanned blimp shot down.
For the people (Score:3, Insightful)
There was once a time where everyone on
Re:If they had (Score:2)
BTM
Re:How good is a blimp... (Score:2)
Besides, we used *canvas* to stop the BBs past the targets. I think the blimp will be okay.
Re:How good is a blimp... (Score:2)
No, but I think that with a just a little bit of time, I can design a small solid fuel rocket that can do just that.
Re:How about air traffic? (Score:3, Informative)
Civilian aircraft (including airliners) rarely fly much above 40,000 feet.
Shouldn't be a problem.
The biggest danger window would be during blimp acsent and descent.
Re:How about air traffic? (Score:2, Informative)
The only possible exception would a supersonic aircraft but there isn't too many of those in civilian hands.
Da ZombieEngineer
Re:Umm...HELLO?! Sniper rifle time! (Score:3, Interesting)