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Spam Government The Courts News

WhenU.com Enjoined From Competing Pop-Ups 148

Frisky070802 writes "The NY Times reports that a preliminary injunction has been issued against WhenU.com, a company that distributes software that performs certain tasks for users but also intercepts their website visits so that, for instance, a visitor to Expedia would see a pop-up ad for Orbitz. Now if only we could get rid of all the rest of the pop-up ads."
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WhenU.com Enjoined From Competing Pop-Ups

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  • by the man with the pla ( 710711 ) on Tuesday January 06, 2004 @02:51AM (#7889107)
    My favorite pop-up blocker is google's toolbar. [google.com] ,

    If I'm going to have some stupid something sitting my windows toolbar section, it might as well do some useful stuff--search google, block pop-ups, and give me pagerank.

    I love free software.

    Davak
    • by BiggerIsBetter ( 682164 ) on Tuesday January 06, 2004 @02:58AM (#7889139)
      My favourite pop-up blocker with Mozilla [mozilla.org], with Opera [opera.com] a close second. I'd go with Opera if it weren't for Adblock [mozdev.org] from Mozdev.org [mozdev.org].
      • by jefe7777 ( 411081 ) on Tuesday January 06, 2004 @05:04AM (#7889485) Journal
        I know a lot of people are going to mention mozilla. And for good reason. It just works. But I'd like to mention that pop-ups represent a golden opportunity to introduce opensource software to your non-techie friends and family.

        The non-geeks have a difficult time understanding the whole concept. But if you solve a very visible problem for them, like pop-ups, you earn a chance to tell them why mozilla exists. Don't beat them on the head with it (i.e. don't preach), just feed them a little. Next time they have a problem, they'll come back for more.

        So while pop-ups are a curse for your average folk, we geeks can make a little use out of the situation.

        jef
      • I'm a Mozilla'er as well - Firebird to be precise. I read that XP SP2 Beta review and noticed that IE is getting a popup blocker of it's own when SP2 for XP is released. It's about time.
      • I agree, I love the Mozilla Firebird pop-up blocker. In my experience, Google didn't manage to block ALL popup ads. Mozilla products block them all.

        It is also easier to allow popups from specific sites in Mozilla. Throw in the Flash Click To View [mozdev.org] extension and you've eliminated a great deal of the annoying crap that comes along with surfing the web.

      • Nothing that has javascript can eliminate popups. You just happen to be ahead of the curve, and advertisers are all using the same method. Once they realize that plenty of people are blocking them, they'll do the same thing the website in my .sig does...

        Only way to get rid of it is to disable javascript all-together, and you can do that with any browser (Internet Explorer, Mozilla, Firebird, Opera, Navigator, etc.)
    • by Anonymous Coward
      How about having nothing extra in your toolbar and just use Mozilla instead? :) http://mozilla.org/ [mozilla.org]
      • by MisterFancypants ( 615129 ) on Tuesday January 06, 2004 @03:07AM (#7889172)
        How about having nothing extra in your toolbar and just use Mozilla instead?

        You can hide the Google toolbar so it doesn't take up any real estate. And if it is resource (memory, CPU) usage you're worried about, well XUL and other bits of Netscape add a lot more resource usage than the Google toolbar does to IE.

        Note: I have nothing against Mozilla, it is a fine browser, but the 'nothng extra' statement regarding the google toolbar was kind of silly.

      • by Anonymous Coward
        I use Google all the time anyway. Being able to just enter a search query into the toolbar instead of having to surf to "www.google.com" every time more than makes up for the few pixels the Google toobar uses. I've got a 1280x1024 resulution too, so it really doesn't take up that much space.
        • by Anonymous Coward

          Use keyword-bookmarks or Mozilla's URL-bar search feature.

          Make a bookmark for "http://www.google.com/search?q=%s&btnG=Google+Sea rch" (without the Slashdot generated space and the quotes)
          Assign a keyword (g, for example)
          Whenever you want to google: "keyword what you're looking for" (g paris hilton)

          Or just type what you're looking for, press cursor-up, press enter (if you're using Mozilla, have this feature enabled and chosen your favorite search engine in the preferences).

          • by Anonymous Coward
            The &btnG=Google+Search is not necessary.

            http://www.google.com/search?q=%s will do.
      • by FyRE666 ( 263011 ) on Tuesday January 06, 2004 @03:33AM (#7889250) Homepage
        Well Firebird is the one for me. Absolutely fantastic browser - looks great, fast, no popups, can use Mozilla's plugins. It's made converts of lots of my friends and colleagues too! Also use Thunderbird for mail now, and it rocks!
        • Just for a case if you don't know - Firebird is a Mozilla Browser.

          So, no wonder it can use Mozilla plugins :)

        • I had to stop using Firebird because it had problems loading pages all the way, mostly pages with dynamic content. It happened most here on /. but happened on other sites as well. I'm back to IE with MyIE2 (I have also used Avant Browser and Crazy Browser in the past, this one has more plugins) and now I just get Slashdot's copious 500 errors :)
    • Ironically, enabling the "advanced features" of the Google Toolbar does nearly exactly the same thing as WhenU's software in that it sends the URL of the page you are visiting to Google which returns the page rank and category of that URL.

      Same method, completely different use.
    • Misinformation (Score:3, Interesting)

      by xintegerx ( 557455 )
      1) WhenU does not install because a user asked it to. It is spyware.

      2) slightly off topic, but their popups and spyware sends are not blocked by the google toolbar. I saw a computer that had google toolbar, with 8 popups blocked (yuppie!) but outside popups were not. The owner had like software popups outside of IE popping up every 10 seconds so much he installed googles toolbar just because of that. Imagine how much business google gets because of the spyware business, as googletoolbar is the most wel
    • My favourite is still Proxomitron, even though development ceased a while back.
    • >I love free software.

      If you're using pagerank then the googlebar is spyware. If you consider your private browsing habits to have worth then it is no longer free, but subsidized by the data you generate as a web user.

      On the bright side, you can download a version of the toolbar without pagerank and no tracking will be done. That's the version I install on people's computers. You're either for or against spyware in my book, there really is no middle-ground. I'm afraid the old truism is true, and as g
      • I strongly disagree - I don't think Google's toolbar is spyware. Wikipedia defines spyware [wikipedia.org] as "software that aids in gathering information about a person or organization without their knowledge." The term spyware is obviously derived from 'spy', which generally indicates some type of undercover, covert, or deceptive act.

        Even though many pieces of spyware 'inform' you of their presence though obscure EULAs or deceptive tricks, I still consider this without their knowledge.

        While I haven't downloaded the to

    • My favorite pop-up blocker is google's toolbar.

      As much as I like Google, their popup blocker does not work terribly well. It will ocasionally let popups through, which really should not happen.

      I always liked Meaya Popup Ad Filter [meaya.com] which works a lot better, but I'd have to agree with the Mozilla crowd, why pay for that if you can get it for free?

      Btw. I don't think software has to be free, but $25.- for a popup killer is just too much, like $20.- for a music CD or $200.- for M$ Office is...
    • My favorite pop-up blocker is google's toolbar.

      In Windows, if you don't use Firebird, you can use myIE2 (http://www.myie2), which uses the Internet Explorer rendering engine, and adds lots of features (tabs, content filter, mouse gestures, and of course, popups blocking)

  • When U... (Score:3, Funny)

    by graveyardduckx ( 735761 ) on Tuesday January 06, 2004 @02:52AM (#7889111)
    When U dot com, U get mozilla and block pop ups.
  • by ObviousGuy ( 578567 ) <ObviousGuy@hotmail.com> on Tuesday January 06, 2004 @02:52AM (#7889115) Homepage Journal
    Star light
    star bright
    first star I see tonight
    I wish I may
    I wish I might
    see all spammers and pop-up software writers be sent directly to jail, do not pass go, do not collect 200 dollars.
  • by Glowing Fish ( 155236 ) on Tuesday January 06, 2004 @02:54AM (#7889122) Homepage

    We are scheduled to get rid of pop-up ads right after we deal with SPAM once and for all.

    Don't hold your breath, please.


    • We are scheduled to get rid of pop-up ads right after we deal with SPAM once and for all.

      Isn't the problem already solved? I'm using Mozilla (galeon actually) and I'm only reminded popups still exist when I have to use a Windows machine that only has IE (not very often). I may have missed something, but it would seem like the SPAM problem is much further from being solved.
      • by Kris_J ( 10111 ) * on Tuesday January 06, 2004 @03:46AM (#7889284) Homepage Journal
        Spam is easy. Just use a mail aliasing system that allows you to give a unique address to every form and your real one to none. Then if one alias starts receiving spam, kill it. Only problem is that it doesn't fix an account already infected with spam, you have to change address. Best move I ever made was dumping my Yahoo address and signing up for a Spamgourmet [spamgourmet.com] account.
        • by jmv ( 93421 ) on Tuesday January 06, 2004 @03:55AM (#7889315) Homepage
          So it's not that easy, right? At least not as easy as the one click it takes to get rid of popups. The other non-easy thing is that I still want people to be able to reach me (being the author of a couple OSS packages) and the best way is to leave an address on a web site. So far it's been easier to just use a bayesian filter... hope it'll continue to work (so far, much less than 1% of the spam gets through).
          • Try this:
            <script language="JavaScript">
            <!--
            var name = "protected";
            var domain = "psacake.com";
            document.write('<a href=\"mailto:' + name + '@' + domain + '\">');
            document.write(name + '@' + domain + '</a>');
            // -->
            </script>
  • Yes, the old adage of "click here, end up there" scenario - unfortunately, the only people that will really benefit from all this fighting back and forth are the lawyers. Who really gives a damn about the users anyways?
    • "Who really gives a damn about the users anyways?"

      Hey! we at DHS/NSA care about users! We CARE what they read, where they go, what they buy, what they say on their cellphone, what is in their email, how often they download communism in the form of linux, what color their underware is .....

      **Snap!**

      Damn I hate it when that happens......
  • This is illegal.. (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    If I'm clear about what my software does, and this site was, then I ought to be free to distribute it and block popups or anything else I want. If this behavior is illegal, then popup blocking software ought to be illegal, too.
    • by Motherfucking Shit ( 636021 ) on Tuesday January 06, 2004 @04:56AM (#7889465) Journal
      If I'm clear about what my software does, and this site was, then I ought to be free to distribute it and block popups or anything else I want. If this behavior is illegal, then popup blocking software ought to be illegal, too.
      The difference is that if I install a popup blocker, I expect it to block popup ads. I don't expect it to also "enable [me] to receive valuable software for free by agreeing to see occasional ads. [whenu.com]"

      If I install KaZaA - God help me if that day ever comes! - I expect it to find me music. I don't expect its bundled programs to also "reach [me] at the exact moment [I] express an interest in [some advertiser's] product. [whenu.com]"

      Speaking of which, if I go to expedia.com, I'm not expressing an interest in orbitz.com's product! I'm expressing an interest in Expedia.

      I can see both sides of the issue here, and for once it's actually difficult for me to take sides in an issue that involves advertising (usually it's a no-brainer). I still find myself siding against WhenU, though. EULA or no EULA, their practices are sneaky and underhanded. The article claims that between Gator and WhenU, more than 30 million people are infec^Wusing this software. How many of them do you think have any fucking clue it's installed, and of those, how many have the slightest idea how to get rid of it?
  • for the lazy (Score:3, Informative)

    by empee ( 219598 ) on Tuesday January 06, 2004 @02:55AM (#7889132)
    Company Barred From Use of Some Pop-up Ads
    By BOB TEDESCHI

    Published: January 5, 2004

    JUST when some federal courts seemed unwilling to find fault with a controversial type of pop-up Web advertising, a federal judge in New York has called at least a temporary timeout on one version of the advertisements.

    Late last month the judge, Deborah A. Batts of the United States District Court for the Southern District of New York, issued a preliminary injunction that bars the advertising software company WhenU.com from displaying pop-ups and other types of online advertisements for VisionDirect.com when visitors go to 1-800 Contacts.com, a competing Web site.

    The decision is the latest twist in a battle between WhenU and more than a dozen companies that object to its advertising techniques. Many more companies are closely watching the fight to determine whether they, too, should sue WhenU and its closest competitor, the Claria Corporation, or simply sign up as advertisers.

    Opponents of WhenU's and Claria's advertising approach compare it to hijacking customers after they have entered a store. The techniques differ from the conventional pop-up advertisements, as when the travel company Orbitz.com pays publishers to have its ads pop up on readers' screens.

    With WhenU's and Claria's services, for example, Orbitz would pay to have its ads pop up with Web surfers visiting the competing site Expedia.com - as in fact happened last week when visitors arrived at Expedia.com.

    In such a case, Orbitz has an opportunity to lure a prospective Expedia customer from Expedia's own site. For this to work, WhenU and Claria must have the Web surfer's complicity. Each company has distributed its software to more than 30 million Internet users. The free software helps users accomplish various tasks online, whether it be filling out address forms or checking weather forecasts.

    In exchange for these free services, users agree to let a piece of software track their activity as they surf the Web. (In some cases, this software is bundled not with software from WhenU or Claria, but with free software from other companies, like the file-sharing service providers Kazaa and BearShare.) It it this tracking software that enables WhenU or Claria to display a competitors' ads when users visit various sites.

    Online companies have fought WhenU and Claria in the courts for the last three years, usually claiming that their pop-up ads violate federal copyright and trademark laws by disrupting the display of the plaintiffs' Web sites and by unjustly using their trademark to sell advertising, among other complaints.

    But WhenU registered several legal victories in the second half of 2003, beginning with a decision in July by a federal district court in Virginia. In that case, the court rejected the argument of U-Haul that WhenU's ads on behalf of its competitors infringed U-Haul's copyrights and trademarks.

    In October, Internet retailers Overstock.com and TigerDirect.com dropped suits against WhenU. In November, Federal District Court Judge Nancy G. Edmunds, in Detroit, denied Wells Fargo's request for a preliminary injunction in its suit against WhenU. Judge Edmunds ruled that Wells Fargo was not likely to prevail on its claims of copyright and trademark infringement.

    The judge said that WhenU did not use Wells Fargo's trademark, per se, in its advertising, since the pop-ups themselves did not display those trademarks. No trial date has yet been set for the case.

    Judge Batts, in New York, made a different judgment in issuing her preliminary injunction against WhenU. She noted that WhenU places the 1-800 Contacts.com Web address in an internal database that is used to trigger the display of competitors' ads. That, she wrote, violates the Lanham Act's trademark protections, because WhenU has used the trademark of 1-800 Contacts in a way that is likely to cause consumer confusion. Specifically, Judge Batts wrote, consumers could be confused about the connection between
    • The article was actually submitted with a partner=GOOGLE parameter in the link, so all of that NY Times registration junk wouldn't have come up, anyway.
  • No problem (Score:5, Insightful)

    by noselasd ( 594905 ) on Tuesday January 06, 2004 @02:55AM (#7889134)
    For the unfortunate friends and family that run Windows, I always install adaware and do a scan of their computer every once in a while.
    http://www.lavasoftusa.com/
    It seems to take care of the adware kazaa installs, and most others.
    Reccomended for every windows user, should be "mandatory" like antivirus software.
    • Re:No problem (Score:5, Informative)

      by seanvaandering ( 604658 ) <sean@vaandering.gmail@com> on Tuesday January 06, 2004 @03:06AM (#7889166)
      Then you are gonna love once XP SP2 is finally released, working helpdesk for an ISP myself, I receive call upon call of people whos computers either

      1. Run slow (its your connection!!!)
      2. Boot slow (damn [ISP] software!)
      3. GP error (Must be [ISP]'s fault - I didn't install anything!)

      etc etc...

      Simply disabling the "Enable Third-Party Browser extensions (requires restart)" option 'sometimes' fixes the issue, but being the root of all evil is the browser and the spyware embedded in the registry, most fixes are temporary until you get to the FORMAT C: prompt once again.

      However I do hear yor pain, and FINALLY a firewall enabled by default in SP2 (XP's firewall is disabled by default), popup blockers in IE, and warnings when a program is attempting to install itself into your browser is one hell of a great start on improving the state of the nation. I am personally looking forward to supporting the original issues that I was paid to support - namely the CONNECTION.

      With all those, all you need is a decent Anti-Virus software and a little luser education and they are set.

      Rant is over. Move along.. nothing left to see here...
    • Just to note, Spybot Search and Destroy is also needed.

      Each miss a little and find stuff the other misses. I regularly run both, even using non-ms browsers/mail clients there is a good deal of crap isntalled, each finding a good dael of ad-ware or tracking devices.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 06, 2004 @02:56AM (#7889136)
    Funny how all through the article not one mention is made of the weaknesses of having IE and Windows (which is the only setup the whenu.com client affects) as a monoculture. I can't count the number of times people on my ISPs board have claimed the ISP must be doing something wrong cos going to one site brings up another, or cos going to one site brings up ads for another.

    Weak software brings about this crap. Start at the base.
  • by core plexus ( 599119 ) on Tuesday January 06, 2004 @02:58AM (#7889141) Homepage
    "Now if only we could get rid of all the rest of the pop-up ads."

    I use Mozilla [mozilla.org], and haven't seen a pop-up in a very long time. In fact, I haven't seen any Flash (which I hate) either.

    -cp-

    Alaska Bugs Sweat Gold Nuggets [alaska-freegold.com]

    • I use IE and haven't seen pop-ups in a very long time. My work keeps me on the internet almost constantly.

      I think it's more that many home users install crap (whenu.com software, toolbars, search helpers, malware crap).

      I use SpyBot S&D to scan for malware and the like. Usually I find mostly tracking cookies on my computers, but I find loads of crappy malware on my families' computers.

      Pron dialers will not give you free pron.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 06, 2004 @02:59AM (#7889146)
    The internet seems to become more worthless every day, as more and more of it is hijacked by spammers and other commercialization.

    How can we take it back? If we can't, how can we replace it with something more resistant to these electronic malignancies?

    I want instant communication with friends and colleagues all over the planet, but I don't want UCE. I want instant access to the world's knowledge on all topics, from crucial news to movie trivia, but I want it without viruses, interstitial ads, popups, spyware, and all that other crap.

    By using Linux with some other specialized software, I have erected a defensive perimeter around my internet existence, so the tidal wave of garbage largely passes me by. But the walls need maintenance, and there always seems to be some new leak that needs plugging.

    It's regrettable that we need to take such drastic measures, but what really worries me is that the need is increasing with time. Can you imagine the situation where 99% of your email is spam? Is there an alternative to giving up email entirely at that point?
    • Can you imagine the situation where 99% of your email is spam?

      I don't need to imagine. On one of my email accounts, 99% of the messages *are* spam. Fortunately Mozilla's Bayesian filter means I only get to see the 5% or so that slip through.
      So there is your alternative.

    • Says you.

      The internet gets more and more VALUABLE to me everyday, as the amount of news, information, opinion, and opportunity keeps growing incrementally. Yes, some of that growth is commercial activity, and some of THAT is undesirable crap, but I wouldn't throw out the baby with the bathwater.

    • yeah i pretty much have given up email. i dont email friends/family anymore, i just call them using my trusty cell phone and free long distance. the only reason i have an email account is to sign up for stuff on the internet. and i do have three accounts for that, only one do i use after i verify that the company i gave my email too isnt spamming me. other than that i stay away from email. althoguh i do use IM a lot.
    • The internet seems to become more useful every day, as more and more commercial interests make their wares available to me, provide me with web interfaces to common tasks like checking balances and reporting problems (even SBC has email trouble reporting now.)

      How can we take it back? WTF are you talking about, it's ours already. We vote with our dollars. People obviously want to be spammed, because they're buying things from spammers. Remember, the majority rules.

      I want instant communications with fr

  • I doubt WhenU held a gun to people's head forcing them to install the WhenU client.

    All kidding aside though and to be serious, what right does a court have to block how software the user installed interacts with said user? If the court rules against WhenU in this case, what stops a multitude of lawsuits from being filed because Company X doesn't like how Company Y's software interacts on Average Joe's home computer? I swear, the US is getting WAAY too litigation happy, especially on such tech issues.

    Now while I can certainly understand the affected companies concerns (I work for one of the plaintifs), I simply think the courts have no moral right, let alone legal grounds, to step into this sort of situation.

    To say it plainly, if it's MY computer, I'll install what I choose, and if I'm not happy, I know exactly where the uninstall is located. I think the consumer should be able to decide for themselves what software to install and how it interacts with the rest of my system - I don't need mommy & daddy to decide for me......

    Argh... I could go on for a while here.......
    • by fishbowl ( 7759 ) on Tuesday January 06, 2004 @03:16AM (#7889204)
      "I doubt WhenU held a gun to people's head forcing them to install the WhenU client."

      No, but I have suspected them of using an IE exploit to install their client without the user's knowledge or consent. I can't prove it, of course, and I'd imagine it would be a big stink if it were true (e.g., felony computer crime for each violation, one would think.)

      They don't literally force anyone to install their software, but they certainly do it clandestinely and without a clear affirmative decision made by the user. It doesn't fall in the same category as literally holding a gun to the user's head, but that doesn't make it ok.

      "To say it plainly, if it's MY computer, I'll install what I choose, and if I'm not happy, I know exactly where the uninstall is located."

      This kind of spyware sneaks in. And without a certain amount of knowledge, such as knowing the registry inside and out, they are very hard to remove. I don't need help with this stuff either, but I know a thing or two about computers. That does not diminish my concern for a victim who cannot say that.

      So instead of holding a gun to your head and making you talk, they sneak into your apartment while you're at work and bug the place. Does that make you feel better?
    • In contract law there are certain things that you cannot sign away. For instance, you cannot sell yourself into slavery.

      It is controversial whether EULAs even constitute a legal contract.

      Why should companies get away writing software that if a script kiddy did he would be put in prison, or at least get a criminal trial?

      Once software starts hijacking your computer then it is entering the realm of viruses. Among other things this definition should include being unable to uninstall the software without re-i
    • I doubt WhenU held a gun to people's head forcing them to install the WhenU client.

      When I was using IE with the default security settings, I found WHenU had "magically" installed itself on my PC without even prompting me. More than once.

      To say it plainly, if it's MY computer, I'll install what I choose, and if I'm not happy, I know exactly where the uninstall is located.

      To respond just as plainly, WhenU doesn't give a crap what you want. If they have an opportunity to get their software onto your sy
  • Thank goodness for at least one sensible court decision in this area.

    One indication of the impropriety of WhenU's actions is that even Microsoft does not do it. IE does, by default, collect a lot of marketing related material. For instance, anytime Microsoft can claim a search was needed (as when a url is typed in the address bar) it sends the data home. But they do stop short of actually modifying valid links to send users somewhere else.

  • Enjoined? (Score:5, Funny)

    by -tji ( 139690 ) on Tuesday January 06, 2004 @03:07AM (#7889169) Journal
    According to Webster, "Enjoined" is how you say forbidden / prohibited when you want to sound like a lawyer.
    • My boss has a JD and told me a funny story from law school. The reason lawyers use all that ridiculous language in contracts is that there's all sorts of case law for incomprehensible contracts -- because they're incomprehensible. The ones that are written in plain language are never disputed because they're easy to understand, so there's no case law on them. Most lawyers would rather use language that has been disputed before so that they'll have precedent to back them up.
  • Pop Ups? (Score:3, Funny)

    by LamerX ( 164968 ) on Tuesday January 06, 2004 @03:09AM (#7889183) Journal
    What exactly are these pop up things you are talking about? I have never seen a pop up before! Would someone please explain what a pop up is please? And what is this Internet Explorer program? Do people really use this program? I'm totally amazed! I'll have to try it out to see exactly what these "pop up" things are...
    • And what is this Internet Explorer program?

      Internet Explorer uses patented Virus Transfer Protocol technology.
      It makes it so easy to install viruses on your PC that the user doesn't have to make any effort at all.
      Just think of all the pop-ups and viruses you are missing because you are using an inferior browser.
      That's internet content that is basically being censored. I mean if software cannot repeatedly change your homepage to goatse then what has happened to freedom of speech?

      And won't somebody think
    • Click-on my sig and you'll get more pop-ups that you can stomache.

      Not safe for work/home/humans.
  • It seems to me (Score:2, Insightful)

    by grawk ( 107524 )
    It seems to me that this is more a victory for the pop-up companies. After all, if this company manages to make it less profitable for companies to USE popup ads, then eventually there will be fewer of them. I mean, it's generally pretty sleezy tactics, but that seems to be the general trend in advertising these days anyway.

    I'm just glad safari and mozilla block popups for me...
  • We can. (Score:4, Informative)

    by Murmer ( 96505 ) on Tuesday January 06, 2004 @03:12AM (#7889193) Homepage
    As of my starting to type this, there are six comments on this page. By the time I'm finished, there will probably be sixty all saying the same, obvious thing: if you want to stop seeing popups, get Firebird [mozilla.org].

    Use Mozilla. Tell your friends.

    • I'm pretty happy with Opera also. I have had better succes in cross-platform usage, though others have had a different experience there.

      I use Opera as my main browser, Mozilla if it fails, and finally MSIE if both do. My personal experience has been that Opera,Mozilla (or firebird), and MSIE have about the same amount of problem webpages, just different ones. Opera's and Mozilla's have about equivalent crap-blockers (pop-up and other types of stuff). Feature set is about the same, one wins in a few departm
    • Use Mozilla. Tell your friends.

      That's not a bad start, but it's better to liberate them completely. Most people won't really know the difference between windoze and a KDE desktop, but the Windoze desktop is less robust. Most people only care about email and web browsing. Any modern Linux distribution will give them that much better than Windoze does and last longer. Windows 2000 pro does not even come with a spell checker, how lame is that? Mozilla can provide a good browser and mail client on Win32,

    • : if you want to stop seeing popups, get Firebird.

      I'm afraid not... Javascript is evil, and Firebird only works right now because Advertisers are lazy, and all do things the same way. Popups and other annoyances cannot possibly be eliminated until you've completely disabled javascript.

      Go ahead, using Firebird, click the link in my .sig.

      Of course, that link is most certainly not safe for work, home, anywhere else.
  • Popup ads are a tax (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Kedder ( 529127 )

    Popup ads, as I understand them, are a tax for not knowing how to disable them. If you don't want to learn - you look at ads. If you don't want to look at ads - you learn how to disable them.

    Popups facilitate freedom of choice:)

    I don't remember when I saw popup ads last time...

  • by osewa77 ( 603622 ) <naijasms.gmail@com> on Tuesday January 06, 2004 @03:23AM (#7889220) Homepage
    Quote from the WhenU.com site:
    WhenU enables consumers to receive valuable software for free by
    agreeing to see occasional ads instead of paying a fee


    The injunction against the company only prevents them from using a particular pop-up ad that is triggered when a user visits the webste of one of their customers. So I think the main issue is it ethical to draw people away from your competitor by taking advantage of the fact that you have some software installed which "knows" when you visit your competitors' site?
    • Huh? Of course it's ethical, you can put a Burger King billboard up right next to a McDonalds restaurant.

      The issue is that 1-800 Contacts wants the practice stopped (who can blame them), and that they actually have the phrase "1-800-Contacts" trademarked.

    • If I signed up with Ford to tell me when there was a problem with Chevys (such as a safety recall) when I was looking at the models, then I would have asked for it. I don't see how this is any different. If the software produces bad results, I can remove it.

      If you want to make something illegal, make it software which is deliberately difficult to remove.

  • by tcdk ( 173945 ) on Tuesday January 06, 2004 @03:27AM (#7889231) Homepage Journal
    One of the things that annoy me the most about pop-up ads, is that they have destroyed an otherwise fine tool. I'll a couple of home-pages and sometimes it would be really nice to be able to do a pop-up. Like for telling people that, if they have to keep on getting the news letter they will have to blah blah, blah... or warning them that there's only two days left if they want to join the competition.

    But people are so negative about pop-ups that if they aren't using a blocker (I'm using Firebird), they certainly aren't reading what's in the pop-up before they close it.

    Yes, most pop-op blockers have a white-list function, but most users are totally clueless on how to use it and will not white list anything. Even if you give them a clue, they will revert to cluelessness in a few minutes. I'm not just guessing here. I installed Mozilla on every workstation here (15 WS's), changed the default browser to mozilla and demoed it, include the white-list function (our intranet uses pop-ups). So they all had the intranet white-listed "out of the box" and they all know that if there's a small blue question mark is means that there's a pop-up that they might be missing. How often do you think that they come to the me, complaining about home pages that doesn't work "in that stupid mozilla browser..." ?

    The only solution that I can see is a global/central white list function. If it was possible to register my site as a "good practice pop-up site" at the various pop-up blocker suppliers, that would could us the pop-up back as a useful tool.

    I imagine the rules for getting on the white list should be something like this:

    1. Only display a pop-up once to each visitor. Use a cookie or something to make sure that you don't do it again.
    2. No ads in the pop-up. The pop-up must be related to the site visited.
    3. Make it clear if clicking a link will result in a pop-up (we need a common icon/symbol for this).
    4. For the extra strict: Only pop-up to registered users who have signed up for the pop-ups. Like phpBB2's "news personal mail" pop-up box.

    I'm unsure if it could be automated, either by analyzing the site with a robot, or through analyzing the manual white-listing done by the users of your blocker software. Otherwise it would have to be a manual process... (which means that it probably would become a paid for extra service).
    • by Kris_J ( 10111 ) * on Tuesday January 06, 2004 @03:54AM (#7889313) Homepage Journal
      There's no such thing as a positive pop-up. They're only annoying, no matter if they contain ads or a message telling you that your password failed. Put the damn message in the body of the web page.
      • There's no such thing as a positive pop-up.

        I disagree with you completely!

        As the parent post noted, there are reasons, other than ads, for which popups are useful. My own reason for not completely disabling popups is:

        1. My company has some internal sites that work by popping up new windows.
        2. I like to respond to CNN polls :)

        The first reason is something they maybe could have worked around, per your comment. But in responding to a poll on a page, I'd much rather have a dismissable popup show me resu

        • As the parent post noted, there are reasons, other than ads, for which popups are useful
          No, there aren't. There are some non-ad uses of pop-ups in the wild, but they are unnecessary and can easily be worked into the main page body or a frame.
    • by pe1chl ( 90186 ) on Tuesday January 06, 2004 @05:29AM (#7889570)
      Give an advertiser a useful tool, and he will abuse it until nobody wants the tool anymore!
      Apparently advertisers never consider this effect, they make the same mistake over and over again.

      - They changed television from an information/entertainment medium with the occasional advertisement into a continuous show of advertisements with the occasional show element inbetween. Result: people buy VCRs and TIVO, to skip the ads.

      - when they discovered the banner ad they did not stay with displaying a logo and static advertisement text, no it all had to be animated and blinking. Result: people install banner blockers

      - then they discover the pop-up, and abuse it to such a level that some sites cause an endless loop of popups and the amount of popups is annoying in generel. Result: people demand popup blockers.

      When will they learn to be moderate? Probably never.
    • The only solution that I can see is a global/central white list function. If it was possible to register my site as a "good practice pop-up site" at the various pop-up blocker suppliers, that would could us the pop-up back as a useful tool.

      Which would work fine until the second the company running the registry realize they can make money by selling entries in the white list.

      Cynical? Maybe, but remember it's advertising we're talking about

      -John
    • I'm unsure if it could be automated, either by analyzing the site with a robot, or through analyzing the manual white-listing done by the users of your blocker software. Otherwise it would have to be a manual process...

      Or you could switch to Opera. The Quick Preferences menu (F12) offers four settings with regard to popups:

      Accept pop-up windows

      Refuse pop-up windows

      Open pop-up windows in background

      Open requested pop-up windows only

      The 'open requested pop-up windows only' setting will open only one

  • WhenU has been a big pain. I've seen it on tons of machines, and I've even documented cases of it crashing a few XP machines. Not destroying - just crashing, but it's still as annoying as hell to get rid of it.

    On a side note, this is why we have Spywareinfo.com's forums... and the neighborhood geek next door, payable in Doritos and new components.

    One last thing: I've found that Ad-Aware doesn't quite do as good a job removing this as Spybot S&D does. I use both and complement them with HijackThis and
  • Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • by Tuxedo Jack ( 648130 ) on Tuesday January 06, 2004 @03:50AM (#7889305) Homepage
    WhenU pales in comparison to CoolWebSearch. If yo udon't know what that is, it's a Trojan that drops files on your computer that change your IE settings, slow down/crash IE/your system, and can download and execute arbitrary unsigned code, and one version (CWS.ehhtp) tracks everything you do on the Web that begins with WWW, as it changes the prefix "WWW" to "http://ehttp.cc/?". Over 23 variants of it have been documented in _five months_.

    WhenU is at least installed through legal means. CWS installs through holes in the MS Java Machine.

    If the courts wish to create injunctions against spyware/adware, why don't they just go against these first?

    (For more information on CWS, if you're interested, check out Merijn's section on it. His CWShredder tool is quite nice.)
  • IE feature request. (Score:3, Interesting)

    by netsharc ( 195805 ) on Tuesday January 06, 2004 @03:57AM (#7889320)
    Here's an idea, most of these tools do their job by attaching themselves to the IE process, something IE allows. Microsoft should make it blatantly obvious which programs have attached itself to IE, and make them easily removable.

    Heh, but who is Microsoft to listen to a slashdotter. However, it's probably possible to make an extension that does the above, just like the extension that stops the "%01" URL-hiding bug.

    AFAIK, IE just looks in a registry key to see which CLSIDs of programs want to attach to it, and then load these programs when an IE instance is running.
  • When trying to raise money to help pay for my site, I tried using pop-up ads... but quickly realized that I felt less guilty from purse-snatching from little old ladies.
  • I use opera (Score:2, Informative)

    since opera has a block pop-up facility
  • Seriously. Anyone who is annoyed at popups has had the choise of installing a decent web-browser and be done with it for ages. Firebird doesn't show any pop-ups. All that happens is that a discreete icon shows up in the statusbar. If you really like, you can click on this icon and say "allow popups from this host". Personally, I take the icon as meaning roughly "consumer-hostile site, consider taking your bussiness elsewhere."

    So, to a person with a decent browser (a browser that forces you to deal with po

    • >All that happens is that a discreete icon shows up in the statusbar. If you really like, you can click on this icon and say "allow popups from this host".

      It is a start, but I think it s*cks that you cannot simply view the popup by clicking on that icon, but have to add the site to a whitelist and then do a reload, hoping that the same popup will appear. They should fix that.
  • The problem with this kind of popups is that they're not opened by a little JavaScript in the HTML source, but by a tiny program running in the background. AFAIK, that is.

    So I'd think the popup blocking in WinXPSP2 (for example) will not be able to block this kind of popups. And well, if it will work, the dorks at Gator can just alter the program so that some weird window opens up with a HTML component in it, instead of a real browser window.

    So yeah, this kind of software might just keep the popups alive.
    • For one, make sure that the user-id that you use to do daily work on your computer is not allowed to install software. Only the administrative user can do that, and you switch to that user when you have bought a shiny new CD, not when some sleezy popup appears.
  • I recently changed browser from Mozilla to Mozilla Firebird mainly for one reason. In Mozilla Firebird you can download (one click) an extension that blocks flash animations. If you then click on the flash animation it will play. That is one great feature for a user who is tired of flash adds.
  • ob plug (Score:1, Redundant)

    by Tom ( 822 )
    Now if only we could get rid of all the rest of the pop-up ads.

    It's called Mozilla [mozilla.org].

    Haven't seen a popup in ages.
  • Pop-ips? (Score:1, Redundant)

    by haggar ( 72771 )
    Honestly, I don't understand how can even a marginally technically knowledgeable person still worry about pop-ups. Just use Firebird, and forget about pop-ups, as I did. As far as I'm concertned, pop-ups are a battle I feel I as a computer user, have now won.

    Next up: spam. Score: losing.
  • As a computer technician, I get alot of peoples everyday bringing in computers that "runs very slowly, is it a virus ?". In 99% of the cases, spyware are the problems. So far my personal record is seeing a computer with over 700 detected spywares (by Spybot). It was a p4 2.6, but it felt like a p2 266. I usually end up giving an explanation of what is a spyware and a small tutorial on how to use spybot. Right now, with all the worms/spyware/spam, peoples are having a hard time just browsing the web, and r
  • Honestly, since Mozilla added pop-up blocker, I haven't noticed them at all. I really don't see pop-ups as a problem anymore, because I simply don't see them anymore. Just upgrade to Moziall and be done with it.

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