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Taiwan Under Cyber Attack from China 646

Posted by michael from the batten-down-the-firewalls dept.
An anonymous reader writes: "O'Reilly Developer News is reporting this morning that Taipei is under cyber attack by a Chinese 'army of hackers'. The Taipei government is saying that the attacks are trojan-horses against windows machines that are being staged to break in to government databases."
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Taiwan Under Cyber Attack from China More

Taiwan Under Cyber Attack from China

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  • Tom Clancy (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    This is extremely interesting. In his book "The Bear and the Dragon" this is exactly what happened, only it was China and Russia.

    COULD THINGS GO NUCLEAR!?!?

    It's pronounced nu-cu-lar.

    WHATEVER!

    • Re:Tom Clancy (Score:4, Interesting)

      by stratjakt ( 596332 ) on Friday September 05, 2003 @01:16PM (#6880870) Journal
      Does Taiwan have nukes?

      Tom Clancy makes me insane. Whenever theres some sort of political or military conflict, all the CNNs and FOX News stations scramble to get Clancy to come on and comment. And he has no military or political experience, just a vivid imagination. They ask him all kinds of technical questions, like in Afghanistan they're asking him about the range of shoulder fired missiles and how many the Taliban have, and he's giving answers like "42" matter-of-factly.

      It's ridiculous. What's next, getting Dennis Miller to be color man on Monday Night Football? Oh wait

      • Re:Tom Clancy (Score:3, Interesting)

        by KFT ( 663082 )

        Tom Clancy makes me insane. Whenever theres some sort of political or military conflict, all the CNNs and FOX News stations scramble to get Clancy to come on and comment. And he has no military or political experience, just a vivid imagination.

        I agree that his books aren't exactly high literature and you do have a point there. But Clancy does have - or is said to have [public-action.com] - more access to the military than you will ever get. And as 95,3434% of the slashdot-population knows, he did write a book about a plane hi

        • Re:Tom Clancy (Score:3, Interesting)

          by JonathanX ( 469653 )
          But Clancy does have - or is said to have - more access to the military than you will ever get.

          This is a fact. I was a member of the 26th MEU(SOC) onboard the USS WASP when Clancy was doing research for his book, "Marine. A guided Tour of a Marine Expeditionary Unit" (ISBN: 0425154548) and I can tell you without a doubt that he had access to all levels of the unit, both during training and real world operations. I can't remember exactly how long he was there, but it was at least a week or two. Trust me, 9
      • It's ridiculous. What's next, getting Dennis Miller to be color man on Monday Night Football? Oh wait

        Yeah, Dennis Miller's already in the house. Now when they put Rush Limbaugh in there, I'll know that the Apocalypse is at hand.

        Oops. [drudgereportarchives.com]

  • Isn't China making an OS with Japan and Korea? (Score:4, Funny)

    by Thinkit3 ( 671998 ) * on Friday September 05, 2003 @01:02PM (#6880715)
    Maybe they're just trying to undermine Windows by attacking it.

  • Text (Score:4, Informative)

    by r84x ( 650348 ) <r84x&yahoo,com> on Friday September 05, 2003 @01:02PM (#6880721) Homepage Journal
    Cabinet says computers under attack
    INFORMATION WARFARE: A Cabinet spokesman said Beijing is waging a campaign designed to access databases in Taiwan through the use of Trojan-horse computer programs
    By Ko Shu-ling
    STAFF REPORTER
    Thursday, Sep 04, 2003,Page 1

    China has launched a systematic information warfare campaign against Taiwan, spreading Trojan-horse programs into private companies' computers as a means to break into government databases, the Cabinet said yesterday.

    "National intelligence has indicated that an army of hackers based in China's Hubei and Fujian provinces has successfully spread 23 different Trojan horse programs to the networks 10 private high-tech companies here to use them as a springboard to break into at least 30 different government agencies and 50 private companies," Cabinet Spokesman Lin Chia-lung () said yesterday.

    The government agencies invaded by the Trojan-horse programs include the National Police Administration, the Ministry of National Defense, the Central Election Commission and the Central Bank of China.

    To minimize the damage, Premier Yu Shyi-kun yesterday instructed all central government agencies to scrutinize their computer systems and report to the authorities within two days. Those failing or refusing to comply with the order may face punishment.

    Yu made the remark yesterday morning during the weekly closed-door Cabinet meeting, in which Minister without Portfolio Tsai Ching-yen () briefed Yu on the matter.

    "Trojan-horse attacks are one of the most serious threats to computer security," Tsai said. "A computer user may have not only been attacked but may also be attacking others unknowingly."

    Because of the vast popularity and many weaknesses of the Windows operating system, most of the damage is done to Windows users, Tsai said.

    Although the National Information Task Force has warned government agencies to be on alert, Tsai said, some agencies have failed to take the warning seriously.

    "They either delayed reporting to authorities or tried to solve the problem themselves. It not only stalled our response efforts but also made the situation worse," Tsai said.

    Since it appears no government information has been stolen, Tsai said, the deployment of the program is likely aimed at paralyzing the nation's computer systems.

    "Of course there are other possibilities such as stealing sensitive government information in vast sums or preparing computers for future information warfare," he said.

    To help government agencies invaded by the program clean up the mess, Tsai said the National Information Security Committee plans to complete the programming of the anti-Trojan-horse software today.

    "We'll also post the solution manual on the Internet for the convenience of other countries facing the same problem," Tsai said, adding that Taiwan is the first country to have detected the program.

    Lee Hsiang-chen (), captain of the National Police Administration's Criminal Investigation Bureau, said the situation has been monitored 24 hours a day over the past two months.

    "We're glad that it has been detected before any damage was done," Lee said.

    "If there's any lesson from this experience, it is not to use software developed in China or hire Chinese computer programmers, because you're running the risk of having the software you use implanted with the Trojan-horse program," he said.

  • Great (Score:5, Funny)

    by ttyp0 ( 33384 ) on Friday September 05, 2003 @01:03PM (#6880726) Homepage
    Anything to stem the flood of SPAM from those two countries.

    Show your hate for SCO [anti-tshirts.com]

  • Trojan, or propaganda? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by RobertB-DC ( 622190 ) * on Friday September 05, 2003 @01:03PM (#6880736) Homepage Journal
    Now please, don't flame me as a fan of mainland China's repressive regime. But the Taiwanese government doesn't exactly have the world's best track record, as I recall. I hear occasional notes about "problems" with civil rights, and then there's the whole pirated anime [anime.org.uk] problem.

    So when I read this line:

    "National intelligence has indicated that an army of hackers based in China..."

    my BS-o-Meter starts clicking. Though the article is non-technical, it includes other notes that make the meter tick faster:

    "...has successfully spread 23 different Trojan horse programs... 10 private high-tech companies... break into at least 30 different government agencies and 50 private companies," Cabinet Spokesman Lin Chia-lung said yesterday.

    We have a lot of big, scary numbers... but no hard information about the programs, the companies, or the government agencies.

    In fact, the "23 different Trojans" makes me think that the government cabinet member is talking out of his butt. More likely, nobody's been running virus protection, and those 24 Trojans are simply members of F-Secure's [f-secure.com] wildlist.

    Then, there's this "helpful" suggestion:

    "If there's any lesson from this experience, it is not to use software developed in China or hire Chinese computer programmers, because you're running the risk of having the software you use implanted with the Trojan-horse program," he said.

    That sounds like nothing more than the usual tit-for-tat barbs that Taiwan and China have been throwing across the strait for decades. In fact, I suspect that's what this whole Trojan Horse issue is -- all bluster, no substance.

    And finally, off the actual topic: let's watch the Slashdot effect in action! When I first hit the Taipei Times article, it included this text at the bottom:
    This story has been viewed 1128 times.

    By the time I typed this comment, the number had not changed, so I'm probably getting a cached copy. What did it show when you hit it?
    • By the time I typed this comment, the number had not changed, so I'm probably getting a cached copy. What did it show when you hit it?
      From where I sit, it's slashdotted already. Now they will probably think it's a Chinese-American conspiracy to censor the Taiwan media using DDoS-by-slashdot.

      (BTW, if I had mod points, I'd mod you up "Insightful".)

    • Re:Trojan, or propaganda? (Score:5, Funny)

      by xanadu-xtroot.com ( 450073 ) <xanaduNO@SPAMinorbit.com> on Friday September 05, 2003 @01:10PM (#6880803) Homepage Journal
      By the time I typed this comment, the number had not changed, so I'm probably getting a cached copy. What did it show when you hit it?
      Timeout on server
      Connection was to www.taipeitimes.com at port 80

      heh :-)
    • It's actually Slashdotted now.

      Good analysis, especially considering how now's hardly the time for China to do things like this... It would go against all of the image and foreign policy they've been trying to build since they tried to get into the WTO. But then again Taiwan is a very sensitive issue for them and they've done other "erratic" things to try and intimidate the island...

    • Re:Trojan, or propaganda? (Score:4, Interesting)

      by BWJones ( 18351 ) on Friday September 05, 2003 @01:12PM (#6880827) Homepage Journal
      That sounds like nothing more than the usual tit-for-tat barbs that Taiwan and China have been throwing across the strait for decades. In fact, I suspect that's what this whole Trojan Horse issue is -- all bluster, no substance.

      However, we should not be complacent about China. I am certainly not one for warmongering but given the U.S. financial involvement in Taiwan (odds are the computer you are typing on was made there), if China ever does do anything more than little experimental probes then we will inexorably be drawn in to a conflict. China has long been a serious threat to world security, but desperately wants to be seen as a principal power in the world. (who knows, perhaps they are even pulling strings in N. Korea to make China look like the good guys that can keep things in check on the peninsula).

      So, guided missile exercises in the Sea of Japan or in the Taiwanese straights are seen as a little provocative, but what about a little cyber warfare. Or would that be Warefare :-). If this is the case, it would be unprecedented.

      • "China has long been a serious threat to world..." (Score:2, Insightful)

        by Anonymous Coward
        erm no. USA is a bigger threat then any other country at the moment.

        Although US and China do share the same human rights, or lack there of.

      • Re:Trojan, or propaganda? (Score:3, Informative)

        by isaac ( 2852 )

        However, we should not be complacent about China. I am certainly not one for warmongering but given the U.S. financial involvement in Taiwan (odds are the computer you are typing on was made there), if China ever does do anything more than little experimental probes then we will inexorably be drawn in to a conflict.

        Why? American capital is heavily invested on both sides of the strait - and new investment is primarily being made on the mainland. What makes you think we'd go to war with China when there'

        • Interesting. Causes me to contemplate what would really happen here in the US if the stream of goods from China were ever stemmed. I think half the stuff in my office is Chinese! For that matter who would manufacture our soldiers' uniforms?

          It seems that China's mushrooming economy is also cementing their national security, I wish we could say that!

    • I'm getting the same:
      "This story has been viewed 1128 times."

      I checked the source - it's just text in there, not java or anything, so don't expect it to go up until some guy in their office updates it.
    • From the page source:

      [font class=textsmall]This story has been viewed 1128 times. [/font]

      ( [] used to get through the comment form. )

      It's static text. Someone should inform the Taipei Times how counters work.

    • pirated anime?! (Score:5, Funny)

      by deft ( 253558 ) on Friday September 05, 2003 @01:19PM (#6880903) Homepage
      Only on slashdot are Civil rights violations mentioned in the same sentence as pirated anime of all things.

    • > This story has been viewed 1128 times.

      It now says 3346 times, although it said 1128 when I went there the first time.

      Hehe, it was posted yesterday and got about 1000 hits until this posting, then it has jumped to almost 3500. If that's all it takes to /. that server, they hve problems.

    • Re:Trojan, or propaganda? (Score:5, Informative)

      by ucsckevin ( 176383 ) on Friday September 05, 2003 @01:36PM (#6881063) Homepage
      As a former resident of taiwan (2 years), I can say this:
      Taiwan is just as free/democratic as the US. Taiwan has a free press, a former minority party in charge, large voter populace, and more informed voters. There's marches and protests against the government all the time. As for pirated software...uh, um...

      • Re:Trojan, or propaganda? (Score:4, Informative)

        by Jeremy Erwin ( 2054 ) on Friday September 05, 2003 @02:08PM (#6881416) Journal
        The Amnesty International report for Taiwan [amnesty.org]. And for China [amnesty.org] Software piracy, is, by comparison, piddling. (And in any case, the PRC is hardly a paragon of virtue.)

    • Re:Trojan, or propaganda? (Score:5, Informative)

      by Jeremy Erwin ( 2054 ) on Friday September 05, 2003 @01:37PM (#6881075) Journal
      there's the whole pirated anime problem.
      The pirated anime "problem" was summed at as Taiwan isn't a member of the Berne convention. Now, although the Berne convention dates back to the 19th century, even the PRC wasn't a signatory until 1992. And Taiwan-- well there's this large hulking monster of a country that seems to believe that if Taiwan accedes to any International Intellectual Property conventions, that somehow violates that bully's sovereignty. So, even if Taiwan wants to impose rather draconian IP laws, it's all tangled up in the cross-straits issue. Taiwan does have bilateral agreements with some countries, but oh my, is that a low rumble of protest I'm hearing from the reds?
      That must be the secret plan of PRC-- block Taiwan from acceding to treaties "protecting" IP, smear Taiwan as a country of Pirates, and since high seas piracy is a breach of international law, it has some kind of Casus Belli.

      Now, if you'll excuse me, I need to bathe. I've spent far too much time reading about TRIPS, GATT, and the Berne convention, and feel rather ...
      dirty.
    • my hoockie-meter raised quite a bit too, this Aug has been reported as the worst for viri and worms in history. As for as not using chinese programmers or programs, I though that software piracy was so rampant in china that effectively all the chinaese use bootleged windows; which probbly makes them a little leary about getting the latest patches from those foriegn devils in Redmond WA USA. Anybody who puts all of their computers on one OS is asking for trouble

  • hm... (Score:3, Funny)

    by holzp ( 87423 ) on Friday September 05, 2003 @01:04PM (#6880744)
    how do your say 'Did you install the latest service packs?' in taiwanese?

  • Personized News! (Score:5, Funny)

    by xanadu-xtroot.com ( 450073 ) <xanaduNO@SPAMinorbit.com> on Friday September 05, 2003 @01:04PM (#6880746) Homepage Journal
    Yu made the remark yesterday morning during the weekly closed-door Cabinet meeting, in which Minister without Portfolio Tsai Ching-yen briefed Yu on the matter.

    I hadn't realized that I talked with China or Tiawan latley.

  • Another kind of cyber-attack (Score:5, Funny)

    by PhoenixK7 ( 244984 ) on Friday September 05, 2003 @01:04PM (#6880747)
    They're under another kind of cyber attack now. Can't get through to the linked website.
  • Is there any relations between theses attacks from China and connections attempts from chineese computers I see so often in my firewall logs ? Anyone else is getting scanned so often from China ?

  • Crouching Spammer Hidden Trojan! (Score:5, Funny)

    by Li0n ( 110271 ) on Friday September 05, 2003 @01:05PM (#6880758) Homepage
    I fully expect this on the big screen in a few years.

  • Before you forecast the Chinese invasion... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Mr. Darl McBride ( 704524 ) on Friday September 05, 2003 @01:05PM (#6880761)
    Before everybody starts up with Chinese government conspiracy theories, keep in mind that the Chinese themselves absolutely hate Taiwan. Government propaganda is issued against Taiwan, pretty much from birth. This has long been done to ensure that the Chinese army is ready and the citizenry are in support for any military action the government deems necessary. This has worked for many a decade, since the two geographic locations are disparate; a lifetime away for most of the citizenry.

    It's only with the advent of the Internet that the two are suddenly in contact in meaningful ways. In a strange twist, and in many cases the Chinese government is in a position where they have to defend Taiwan against these kinds of attacks from their own citizens!

    It's a strange, strange world. And as we grow more connected, it's getting more so every day. So buy SCOX stock.

    • Re:Before you forecast the Chinese invasion... (Score:5, Interesting)

      by tehanu ( 682528 ) on Friday September 05, 2003 @02:03PM (#6881375)
      Personally a lot of the Chinese I know think of the Taiwanese as people who can't speak proper Mandarin...They also believe that Taiwan should be part of China again. I'm not sure how much this can really be blamed on government brainwashing though. Chinese (well Han Chinese anyway) have always believed very strongly in the concept of China as one people and one culture. Periods of time when there have been two or more "Chinas" have always resulted in much effort expended in reuniting the country. There is no celebration of disunity or having independent Chinese "countries". One wonders how the Taiwanese actually reconcile this cultural history with their desire to remain separate from China. In the Chinese mode of thinking, the desire to NOT be Chinese, is very strange.

      In Chinese folklore, literature and popular history all divisions in China (a very popular topic), whether through civil war or barbarian invasion always end up with the country reunited by some glorious hero (or occassionally talented despot who is then deposed by a glorious hero). Having Chinese accept two Chinas is like asking Westerners to accept that yes, the villain really should win the war and beat the good guys. In the books, China always gets reunited by the good guys and everyone rejoices and lives happily ever after.

  • They have windows source code? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous CowWord ( 635850 ) on Friday September 05, 2003 @01:05PM (#6880762)
    It's interesting that this is happening now, after china has acquired windows' source code. Could they have found newer vulnarabilities that no one knows about yet?
  • Blaster strikes again...

  • What's the matter... (Score:5, Funny)

    by chill ( 34294 ) on Friday September 05, 2003 @01:09PM (#6880794) Journal
    ...couldn't they just impersonate techs, walk in and grab the government mainframes [slashdot.org]? :-)

  • all your (data)base are belong to us (Score:4, Funny)

    by holzp ( 87423 ) on Friday September 05, 2003 @01:09PM (#6880798)
    all your (data)base are belong to us!

    there i said it, i know its japanese but it had to be said.

  • Pretty Interesting... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by paranoidsim ( 239426 ) on Friday September 05, 2003 @01:11PM (#6880817)
    Especially the last part of the article:

    "If there's any lesson from this experience, it is not to use software developed in China or hire Chinese computer programmers, because you're running the risk of having the software you use implanted with the Trojan-horse program"

    on the heels of this report, regarding China's intentions of developing their own OS:
    http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/08/31/1 52525 2

  • Propoganda and FUD (Score:5, Interesting)

    by globalar ( 669767 ) on Friday September 05, 2003 @01:14PM (#6880845) Homepage
    I did not make it to the article, so I am basing this comment upon the posted text.

    "China has launched a systematic information warfare campaign against Taiwan"

    That would be propoganda. Hackers, or more technically, computers, in China have launched an attack. Not the Chinese government, not the nation of China, a group of individuals using computers in China.

    "'National intelligence has indicated that an army of hackers based...'"

    Again, a little over the top with the "army of hackers" reference. This makes it seem like the hackers have some official link or even political cause.

    "'If there's any lesson from this experience, it is not to use software developed in China or hire Chinese computer programmers,'"

    Propoganda. Incredibly, this sort of logic would mean that living or working within a country means that you are a malicious agent of that country. Ludicrous.

    Oh, and please do observe the editor who approved this article.
    • I think you are being a bit hard on the Slashdot editors.

      I for one read comments like yours, and also consider my own past experience. The "headline" on Slashdot and even the referenced story is only part of the information.

      I often find useful links about a topic in the comments... this is often where the "real story" is found. This is the whole reason I find Slashdot a great place! Warts ("editors") and all.

    • Ummmm.... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Iowaguy ( 621828 ) on Friday September 05, 2003 @02:36PM (#6881619)
      You can't really take a pee in China without government sanction. If you think that rebellious feeling Chinese can just spontaneously gather and cary out a non-approved actiivty, then I have a nice prison cell filled with falun gong practicers to sell you. Get real.

    • Hive Mind (Score:3, Interesting)

      by SunPin ( 596554 )
      Sino culture is different. There are no individuals in China. Nobody thinks of themselves as individuals and this hive mind mentality makes propaganda spread easily. Those that think of themselves as individuals tend to be visiting Western professors under state surveillance or Chinese citizens in prison.

      Americans have their behavior rooted in a mythology of distant settlers fucking over a detached empire. If you want to call that mythology overrated, maybe you have a case. If you want to call that my

  • Told You So (Score:5, Insightful)

    by the eric conspiracy ( 20178 ) on Friday September 05, 2003 @01:15PM (#6880848)
    Because of the vast popularity and many weaknesses of the Windows operating system, most of the damage is done to Windows users, Tsai said.

    Department of Hoeland Security, take note.
  • ...a level of animosity that China has toward Taiwan.

    Let's just pray that all of the fighting stays in the cyber world.

  • At least they got the terminology correct (Score:3, Funny)

    by gosand ( 234100 ) on Friday September 05, 2003 @01:20PM (#6880907)
    Hey, at least they know to refer to it as a "trojan horse". Unlike the head of IT here at work who sends out emails to everyone warning them of the "internet virus worm".

  • childhood song (Score:5, Funny)

    by segment ( 695309 ) <sil&politrix,org> on Friday September 05, 2003 @01:20PM (#6880925) Homepage Journal

    me chinese me play trick me ping -f'in on your nick

  • Reporting live from northern Taiwan. . . (Score:5, Interesting)

    by ahfoo ( 223186 ) on Friday September 05, 2003 @01:21PM (#6880926) Journal
    Well, this is the first I've learned of it. My ultra cheap standard issue 1.5Mbps DSL connection seems to be going just fine. Got a few connections to the WayBack machine going and I just finished the rounds at a dozen web sites, EETimes, DisplaySearch, BioTech East, Digitimes, Google News and on and on. None of them had any problems, nice snappy connections. A few of those are in Taiwan so locally and internationally the network itself seems fine.
    The only thing I couldn't get to was the feakin' story at the notoriously paranoid Taipei Times because apparently the greater threat to the local net than the mainland is slashdotting!

  • Who's the bad guy again? (Score:5, Funny)

    by bpfinn ( 557273 ) on Friday September 05, 2003 @01:22PM (#6880939)
    • China runs Red Flag Linux. Yea!
    • China (allegedly) "cyber"-attacks Taiwan. Boo!
    • Taiwan is relatively more free than China. Yea!
    • Taiwan runs Windows. Boo!

    Please help me decide who to cheer for.

  • Bigger picture (Score:5, Informative)

    by Henry V .009 ( 518000 ) on Friday September 05, 2003 @01:22PM (#6880941) Journal
    Here is the cause. [google.com] Taiwan recently conducted military exercises simulating a Chinese invasion despite Chinese protests. I would imagine that this is China's response.

    Or it could be preparation for an all out invasion by China. Now that would be a fun war to watch.

  • Obviously, (Score:4, Funny)

    by imadork ( 226897 ) on Friday September 05, 2003 @01:23PM (#6880950) Homepage
    Taiwan should ditch their Windows boxes for something more secure. Like, say, Red Flag Linux?

  • Where's the proof? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by FooBarWidget ( 556006 ) on Friday September 05, 2003 @01:24PM (#6880962)
    How do they know "China" (as in the Chinese government) is attacking Taipei, instead of just a group of people? I mean, if Joe Hacker from the USA attacks the Belgium government servers do you call it an attack by Joe Hacker or an attack by the USA?

  • Army of hackers? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by magoolsu ( 661313 )
    s/army of hackers/script kiddy in US with a bunch of hax0r3d puters from china/

    I think that would be more accurate.

  • Not China's traditional way of attacking (Score:3, Funny)

    by mrtroy ( 640746 ) on Friday September 05, 2003 @01:26PM (#6880979)
    One of my friends of the asian persuasion has taught me the true Chinese way of attacking.

    First, no not all Chinese people know kung-fu.
    This is a common misconception bred from kung-fu movies. They actually get to choose their martial art. So some know karate instead.

    Secondly, the Chinese use giant chopstick catapults to throw themselves to Taiwan, and then they use these martial arts to attack.

    Third, the Chinese NEVER use technology to attack! It is simply not honourable. You must commit "harry-karry" (which is, yes, japanese and spelled american). The honourable way to attack is with martial arts. Possibly using weapons, if the other agrees to it in the duel, and their sensai throws them the same weapon you have.

    Because a numchuck vs. sword fight simply isnt fair, or lengthly enough to make a good film.

    I must get a glass of water...this is a little dry.

  • Regardless of the implications... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by tambo ( 310170 ) on Friday September 05, 2003 @01:29PM (#6881001)
    Regardless of the implications of this:

    1) This is, to put it concisely, goddamn cool. We've been hearing for years about how countries might wage some kind of hax0r-cyber-warfare on each other, but aside from a few isolated instances (e.g., the U.S. disabling Iraqi computers in 1992 by introducing a hardcore virus via, of all things, printer driver software), we've dismissed it as futurist hogwash. But it may be happening now. If so, it's an historic moment in computer science.

    2) This is better for people than having any country invade or bomb another. This type of invasion may be a precursor to that one - but if, in the future, a country can be brought to its knees with minimal loss of life by just wrecking its computer infrastructure, then that is a good development of history.

    - David Stein

    • Re:Regardless of the implications... (Score:5, Funny)

      by bnavarro ( 172692 ) on Friday September 05, 2003 @01:37PM (#6881085)
      Funny how my posts get ranked (-1, Troll) five times as often when I throw the "Esq." at the end of my name.

      Man! so that's why my karma's suddenly in the toilet! Makes so much sense!

      Sincerely,
      Darl McBride, Esq.

    • Re:Regardless of the implications... (Score:4, Insightful)

      by sammaffei ( 565627 ) on Friday September 05, 2003 @01:47PM (#6881197)
      2) This is better for people than having any country invade or bomb another. This type of invasion may be a precursor to that one - but if, in the future, a country can be brought to its knees with minimal loss of life by just wrecking its computer infrastructure, then that is a good development of history.

      Yeah, critical computer equipment in nuclear power plants, training track switching computers and etc. isn't gonna kill anyone...

    • Re:Regardless of the implications... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by michaelggreer ( 612022 ) on Friday September 05, 2003 @01:50PM (#6881225)

      1) It would be cool in a movie, but in real life these things are true weapons. You can bring down electrical systems, stall trains, release sewage into the water supply. Real people can die real deaths because of these.

      2) I think the possibility of low-level warfare is more dangerous than bombs. The cold war shows this: if you only have maximum response, then you will hesitate to use it. If you have lots of low-level responses (car bombs, plane hijackings, etc ) than it is easier to assault your enemy short of war. This is a totalitarian regime attacking their enemy without anybody raising their DEFCON levels. That is scary.

  • Under attack (Score:5, Funny)

    by harvey_peterson ( 658039 ) on Friday September 05, 2003 @01:30PM (#6881015)
    This just in...

    The Taipei Times is under attack from a group of computer experts in the United States. The group, calling themselves Slashdot, have bombarded the Taipei website with so many hits, that it cannot distribute web pages anymore.

    More on this story at eleven.

  • reality of digital warfare? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by KReilly ( 660988 ) on Friday September 05, 2003 @01:32PM (#6881027)
    I remember after 9/11 alot was said about information warfare being the new medium. It was made into a big deal by the media, but I also remember Wired writing an excellant article on how physical attacks would be much easier, much more destructive, and much less expensive to implament. Since all that, I have been very skeptical about if digital warfare is ever going to be in our future. Assuming this is a true claim, des this now prove that we are in that age? Its one thing to claim a few kids are doing it, its a whole different ball park if you say military trained personell are carrying out the attack...
  • Those nice folks in mainland China are just trying to accelerate the transition to Linux in the Asia-Pacific region by exposing the folly of using Windows for anything other than games.

  • Doesn't sound right (Score:2, Interesting)

    by lprechan ( 9859 )
    The two main Taiwanese routers are presently showing a 192ms and a 203 ms response time with a 0% packet loss. China, OTOH, has four main routers with two of them showing a 0ms response time coupled with a 100% packet loss.

    Smells a bit like propaganda to me...

  • A haiku (Score:5, Funny)

    by asbestos_lead ( 691863 ) on Friday September 05, 2003 @01:44PM (#6881162)
    Turned on computer.
    It rebooted. China 0wns
    me. Blue screen now red.

  • They're Missing the Point. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by BlackBolt ( 595616 ) on Friday September 05, 2003 @01:55PM (#6881284) Homepage Journal
    "If there's any lesson from this experience, it is not to use software developed in China or hire Chinese computer programmers, because you're running the risk of having the software you use implanted with the Trojan-horse program," he said.

    That's not the point. The point is not to use closed-source software anymore. If their software was supplied with source code, they could have scanned it thoroughly for trojans before implementing it.

  • Another Reason Not to Offshore High-Tech Work (Score:5, Insightful)

    by SilentMajority ( 674573 ) on Friday September 05, 2003 @02:06PM (#6881400) Homepage
    Correct me if I'm wrong but we currently don't have any restrictions on critical/pervasive products such as anti-virus or anti-trojan software being developed offshore, right?

    Furthermore, I heard recently on CNN that the only restriction on defense weapons is that 50% be developed by US companies. Only 50%!!!

    IMHO, one of the primary reasons USA is so strong in defense is because all the brains from overseas came to our country to profit from their work and flee from religious persecution. Now we're shipping opportunities overseas and the judge in Alabama is giving people the impression that Christianity is favored over all other religions here. Smooth move (imagine the next Einstein staying overseas and deveoping the next great weapon for some other country instead of us).

    What will happen to our national security when we offshore 90%+ of all of our high-tech jobs and what will happen to the national security in countries (like India & China) where most of the high-tech jobs will be based?

    And workers of US companies overseas don't have to pay taxes on the first $75,000 so think of all the lost taxes (billions in income taxes alone) that our government loses--not to mention that those workers if based in the US would have spent their earnings here.

    Does anyone in Washington give a damn about our future or is it all about returning favors to those who contribute to campaigns while sacrificing our government budgets and national security?

    Isn't it retarded to offshore development of critical products like anti-virus software to other countries? If this story about China attacking Taiwan (which I thought was part of China) is true, then we should stop all security-related software from being offshored--or simply requiring the use of only those developed 100% by companies AND individuals with security clearances.

  • War games (Score:5, Informative)

    by wytcld ( 179112 ) on Friday September 05, 2003 @02:38PM (#6881640) Homepage
    1st, Taiwan staged its largest-ever war games a few days back. It's trying to take an even-more-solid defensive posture because it knows that the US is too bogged down in Iraq to come fully to its defense if China invades soon.

    2nd, when I worked in Taiwan in the late 80s, there was a single pipe into the country which the government heavily monitored. The pipe's much fatter now. Anyone know how heavy the monitoring is these days?

    3rd, the mainland would be totally stupid not to try to break into Taiwanese databases. Any professional intelligence agency anywhere in the world has people assigned to breaking into friends' and neighbors' databases.

    4th, the government on Taiwan is the only legitimate government of China. We may be making a terrible mistake not to back it, and not to demand the dissolution of the illegitimate government on the mainland. But hey, the mainland will sell us cheap goods made with slave and prison labor - good enough for us....

  • Talking about ME!? (Score:3, Funny)

    by jrockway ( 229604 ) * <jon-nospam@jrock.us> on Friday September 05, 2003 @02:48PM (#6881727) Homepage Journal
    >> Yu made the remark yesterday morning during the weekly closed-door Cabinet meeting.

    No I didn't. And learn to spell "you"!

  • Just friendly assistance... (Score:3, Funny)

    by El ( 94934 ) on Friday September 05, 2003 @02:48PM (#6881733)
    the Chinese are actually trying to HELP the Taiwanese... their plan is to take over all the Windows machines and install Linux on them!

  • Windoew Source Code (Score:5, Interesting)

    by grendel's mom ( 550034 ) on Friday September 05, 2003 @03:06PM (#6881888)
    What's really interesting is that Microsoft allowed China access to the source code [com.com] from Windows. Could the Chinese have used this information to aid in attacking Taiwan?

  • New Rules (Score:3, Funny)

    by mabu ( 178417 ) on Friday September 05, 2003 @03:16PM (#6881983)
    "Chinese Army of Hackers" = 13 year old looking for Anna Kournikova pictures.

  • Chinese DOS Attack! (Score:3, Funny)

    by PetoskeyGuy ( 648788 ) on Friday September 05, 2003 @03:26PM (#6882057)
    The most distributed attack ever. Every person in China tried pinging the Taiwan sites at the same time.

  • Misleading Headline (Score:3, Funny)

    by sharkey ( 16670 ) on Friday September 05, 2003 @08:14PM (#6884469)
    Taiwan Under Cyber Attack from China

    That should read: "Taiwan Uses Windows to Host Government Databases"

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