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High-Speed Burning Could Harm Pioneer Combo Drives 221

Posted by timothy from the but-isn't-that-the-point-of-high-speed dept.
daffydory writes "Both New Scientist and The Register have articles about the Pioneer DVD writers (SuperDrives to us Apple users)." According to these articles, the drives "will bascially implode themselves with the new highspeed media that's coming out. Lovely. There's supposed to be a firmware patch to fix it, but it may be 'problematic' for users to install."
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High-Speed Burning Could Harm Pioneer Combo Drives More

High-Speed Burning Could Harm Pioneer Combo Drives

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  • Error (Score:5, Funny)

    by jamespharaoh ( 551737 ) on Wednesday September 18, 2002 @12:22PM (#4282499)
    /dev/hdc on fire
    • New high-speed CPUs commit suicide when tired. Free group teraphy on the manufacturer website. Memory banks get Alzheimer disease. No workaround found yet. New copy protection for audio CDs crashes PC ... ooops, I think I already heard about it :)

  • Burning Could Harm Pioneer Combo Drives (Score:5, Funny)

    by N3WBI3 ( 595976 ) on Wednesday September 18, 2002 @12:22PM (#4282505) Homepage
    I tried burning my drive really slow and it still damaged it..

  • Warp 10 (Score:5, Funny)

    by kmahan ( 80459 ) on Wednesday September 18, 2002 @12:24PM (#4282515)
    She kinna take it anymore, captain! She's gonna blow!

  • MPAA's New Weapon (Score:4, Funny)

    by boa13 ( 548222 ) on Wednesday September 18, 2002 @12:24PM (#4282516) Homepage Journal
    Yup, now pirates will die a seething death as they burn music on their computers. Sucked into your own burner by an imploding disc... what a pyrotechnic ending!
  • I mean, who else but pirates need to burn THAT much data THAT fast?? I mean, really folks, this is to make sure that we can't store 4.7 GB's of Booby Spears and N'Stink on portable media that can be hidden from the gov't (in unthinkable places like, oh, a Cd case!)

    Humor folks, enjoy it

    =)

    • I know that was meant to be funny.. ha ha and all... But personally, I think it would be nice to do off site backups to a 3 gig dir on 1 DVD rather than on 3 or 4 CDs. Just my opinion. (Yes I know theirs alot better options, but its the thought that counts! or something)
      • And what about us that actually uses DVD recorders for what they were made for - backing up lots of data _and_ making our own DVD movies (or Jpop music video collections in my case hehe)

  • Ridiculous sensationalism (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 18, 2002 @12:24PM (#4282520)
    Lovely how it gets published anyways. Yeah, these drives sure do implode. You know, computer equipment has just been known to do that sometimes. Implosion -- an accurate description of the observed phenomenom. If you are on crack.
    • Indeed. "will bascially implode themselves with the new highspeed media that's coming out. Lovely. There's supposed to be a firmware patch to fix it, but it may be 'problematic' for users to install." Typical word-stretching and lofty sarcasm of Mac users. "An overheating problem among drives used with new high-speed discs can destroy both the unit and the medium" matches "basically implode" perfectly.

  • problematic? (Score:5, Funny)

    by Lxy ( 80823 ) on Wednesday September 18, 2002 @12:24PM (#4282522) Journal
    There's supposed to be a firmware patch to fix it, but it may be 'problematic' for users to install.

    Does problematic mean "I can't get to the machine to upgrade because there's shards of disc flying at me when I go near it!"?
    • Does problematic mean "I can't get to the machine to upgrade because there's shards of disc flying at me when I go near it!"?

      Probably something like that. They probably require you to use the new incompatible disks to upgrade the firmware ;)
    • Sadly, no. It means "I installed the flash upgrade and now my $400 drive won't even open the door anymore and Pioneer's answer is 'We'll give you an RMA and have a new drive to you in 3-4 weeks.'"

      Not that I'm bitter or anything...

  • This is why.. (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Zelet ( 515452 ) on Wednesday September 18, 2002 @12:26PM (#4282537) Journal
    I am not going to buy a DVD burner until the technology matures a little.

    • waiting for dvd recording technology to mature = waiting for a DVDR drive that doesn't catch on fire

      i like your understated logic.

      while (dvdburning=fire)
      {
      burncds
      else
      buydvdburner
      }

    • You're right to do that, especially with the new Blu-Ray [philips.com] DVD specification and Toshiba's and NEC's new blue-laser [medialinenews.com] system, which hasn't been given a name yet. This is all according to an article in the New Scientist ( 2002-09-07, page 7 ).
    • >I am not going to buy a DVD burner until the technology matures a little.

      You can also do like me and wait over 2 years after they've announced DVD+R that would be cheaper faster and more compatible than DVD-R and come out within the "next 6 months"...

      Now that DVD-R and DVD+R are out, guess what I bought? Pioneer A04, DVD-R, simply because I hate people that promise stuff (cough cough HP cough cough) and deliver over 2 years later. Plus, the cheaper is not the case, +R medium costs more, and faster.. well.. 2x or 2.4x, I'll still have to wait too much so it's not even an argument until they reach 4-8x.

      +R is a better technology, maybe, but DVD-R been out for a while, been tested, been proven to do the job just great, and there are huge charts about what's compatible and not when you are buying medias.

      Firmware issues can always happen, you patch your bios, you upgrade your drivers, you overclock your CD-RW :), I mean, it's something common and people that can't do it are already used to bring their computers for checkups or upgrades.

      Of course I won't go up to the point of defending Pioneer for making a firmware that does this type of error, I was just commenting on your comment :)

      Basically you can always wait... I can wait till maxtor releases a TB disk to store my video... or I can simply buy many 160/320GB drives and raid them. You can always wait for newer better and improved technology, but I saw so much FUD to cut off sales of the competitors, that now I am buying the stuff that is available NOW when I need it NOW. If I can wait, good thing, it's because I don't NEED it.
  • ...is when you read Pioneer's press release [pioneerelectronics.com] on the matter. All they care to say is that "damage may occur" to your drive or media. No mention of implosions, explosions, melting, burning or other various hazards.
    • Oh, so this is what the press release by Pioneer should say?

      Users of the superdrive engineered by Pioneer Electronics may suffer ill effects from use of the drive with new 2x and 4x recordable medium. Use of this product has been known to induce spontaneus combustion, decaptitation, explosions and is rumoured to be cancerous. Those users who are able to still write ( bloody stump or not ) may address Pioneer Electronics for a partial refund - please continue to use the product in the meantime as if you die - it'll mean less payments for us. This product has been show to burn labratory rat animals in tests on 2x and 4x recordable mediums.
      • > [...] This product has been show to burn labratory rat animals in tests on 2x and 4x recordable mediums.

        ROFLMAO.

        So, how much data can they fit on a rat these days? If I have a male and female rat, and I leave too much food in their cage, do RIAA lawyers come after me for copyright infringement a few weeks later?

  • Problematic for some users? (Score:3, Informative)

    by faster ( 21765 ) on Wednesday September 18, 2002 @12:27PM (#4282544)
    You mean because some versions of NT won't run the updater? Is that really a big deal? Boot a DOS floppy and try again, you'll lose a whole 3 minutes.

    I ran the updater on a W2k machine with one of those drives this morning, and it ran with no problems, and in the GUI.

    The drive is a little funky and slow and unreliable, but that's what you get when you buy stuff that's on the bleeding edge (as far as consumer products go, anyway). I've never seen an update make it worse, and I've installed 5 firmware updates on this drive.

  • Thanks Pioneer (Score:2, Insightful)

    by nicedream ( 4923 )
    Ok the new scientist link is down already, but the register link has this:

    In addition to the items mentioned, several OEM units are affected, but Pioneer won't say which ones. You'll just have to contact your box builder and ask them if they have a fix.

    So they make a defective product, but won't say which OEMs are affected? WHY NOT?

    Also, how does new firmware keep a drive from self destructing? Sounds like an engineering problem that firmware couldn't fix, unless said firmware simply lowers the drive speed.
    • I had a old 6xcdrw drive that would fubar on 8x disks a firmware update fixed this by corectly identifying the disk and adjusting the burning system so it would'nt fry the disk, the firmware for the dvdrw would do the same thing
    • Also, how does new firmware keep a drive from self destructing? Sounds like an engineering problem that firmware couldn't fix, unless said firmware simply lowers the drive speed

      No, the unit tries to perform a test on blank media and it keeps retrying on the higher speed media for 5 minutes. The laser overheats and burns out. Foom, dead drive.

      The New Scientist article says this.

  • Great... (Score:3, Informative)

    by shepd ( 155729 ) <slashdot.org@gmail.COMMAcom minus punct> on Wednesday September 18, 2002 @12:29PM (#4282554) Homepage Journal
    Not.

    What about those of us who bought this drive for a non-Microsoft operating system?

    Yay... an .exe file updater (for Windows and not DOS, I don't doubt). I think I'll just destroy my burner with the 4x media and get Pioneer to replace it (under warranty), if that's their attitude.
    • Considering that standalone DVD burners are also at risk, I'd imagine there exists a way to put the firmware on a CD and have the drive read and update itself by inserting that CD.

      Might be worth looking into.
    • If you're running on i386, you've got a solution.

  • Problems? (Score:2, Informative)

    by The Vulture ( 248871 )
    The Register article mentioned only problems with Windows NT - I used Windows 2000 with no problems at all. I have a Pioneer DVR-A04 that I bought about a month ago, retail box.

    Downloaded the upgrade, ran it. It detected my drive (hooked up as secondary slave, with a Pioneer DVD-ROM as primary slave), and flashed it. The drive rebooted itself, no problems. Took all of 30 seconds.

    The Register article mentioned only problems with Windows NT - I used Windows 2000 with no problems at all. I still don't have DVD recording working under Linux, but that's from a lack of time, not a lack of trying. Nero is so easy to use. :)

    What I'm curious of is that the firmware version number changed from 1.20 to 1.32, but they don't seem to have any changelogs on the Pioneer website. I'm curious only because I have a Compaq laptop that's rather flaky with DVD-R media (Presario 2715US), and I wanted to know if it was the firmware flash that helped, or the type of media I used (probably the media) that actually allowed it to read the DVD-R I made.

    -- Joe

  • More Info (Score:4, Informative)

    by DeadBugs ( 546475 ) on Wednesday September 18, 2002 @12:31PM (#4282570) Homepage
    Here is the link to the Pioneer statement [pioneerelectronics.com]. This is only for the new 4X DVD-R and 2X DVD-RW discs that have just been approved by the DVD Forum. AFAIK these discs are not yet for sale. You can also get a free CD with the software update on it from Pioneer.
  • This sounds like the laser diode overheats when run at too high a duty cycle. So the firmware probably just tells the drive to burn at slower speeds no matter how fast the media says it can run. Maybe we just need some people to develop a hardware hack to cool the diode better.
    • Yeah, what we need to solve this problem is a
      nitroglycerine cooling system. Or was that liquid
      nitrogen? Whatever, I'm sure it'll work. They're
      both weird chemicals after all...
      • um, somehow I see an nitroglycerine cooling system being A Bad Thing... Could just be me.... Laser heats up, and BOOM, computer blows up. Guess that's what's called 'catastrophic failure' ;-) Dory

  • Sweet... (Score:2, Funny)

    by quakeroatz ( 242632 )
    This gives a new meaning to the term:

    "Burning a disc"

    Honey, don't you smell something....
  • Using Windows 2000, I downloaded the verion checker to check my A03, it said "You need to upgrade." So I downloaded and ran the upgrader, it finished in maybe a minute. No hitches, no problems, no implosions.
  • So I guess they "just work" right up until they "just friggin blow up"? Eh?

    Warmest Regards,
    --Jack

    • Parent is a troll, but I'll bite.

      You're blaming Apple for a problem in Pioneer's drives that won't have any effect until new technology comes out, and even then there is a free upgrade to fix the problem well in advance? Are you just looking for an excuse to bash Apple or what? They aren't the only ones that ship these drives, and the patch works on their computers.
      • I just ran a System Profile on my iMac flat panel with the DVD burner. These puppies DO use the affected drive. Take care as to which media you buy, at least until the firmware upgrade comes out. I am wondering if it will be packaged with the 10.2.1 update scheduld out this week?

  • So if I have one of these in an Apple Laptop, do I get an explosive fireball?

    Cooooooool... now that would make me spring for some Apple hardware! [as long as it was under warranty]

  • No fix for Apple users yet (Score:5, Informative)

    by gwernol ( 167574 ) on Wednesday September 18, 2002 @12:44PM (#4282684)
    The Pioneer firmware fix won't work on SuperDrives installed in a Mac. As quoted from Macintosh Digital Hub [macintoshdigitalhub.com]:

    "So what's the resolution? For Mac users, that answer is a bit hazy. Pioneer is releasing updater software that tweaks the internal firmware in its drives so that they are able to use the high-speed media. This firmware updater will be available for download from Pioneer's Web site; you'll also be able to order it on a CD-ROM.

    But this updater will not work with SuperDrives, since they contain Apple's firmware. According to Pioneer senior vice president Andy Parsons, "Apple is aware of the issue, and we expect they will have a solution soon." Those of us with SuperDrives will have to wait or Apple to deliver a firmware update"
    • Replying to my own comment... MacOSRumors [macosrumors.com] is reporting that:

      "According to Apple sources, the company is hard at work on an update to both OS X 10.1 and 10.2 (10.0.x will not be supported by this update) to prevent possible damage to SuperDrives when burning to high-speed DVD-R disks, and expects to release it via Software Update around the end of the first week of October."

      However MOSR is not the most reliable source so take this with however large a pinch of salt you feel is necessary.
  • A pioneer's life is never easy... and sometimes it just plain sucks!

  • Ouch (Score:4, Funny)

    by stinkydog ( 191778 ) <<sd> <at> <strangedog.net>> on Wednesday September 18, 2002 @12:45PM (#4282697) Homepage
    According to Webster (Mostly)
    Main Entry: problematic
    Pronunciation: "prä-bl&-'ma-tik
    Variant(s): or problematical /-ti-k&l/
    Function: adjective
    Date: 1609
    1 a : posing a problem : difficult to solve or decide b : not definite or settled : UNCERTAIN c : open to question or debate : QUESTIONABLE
    2 : expressing or supporting a possibility
    synonym see DOUBTFUL
    3 : launching shards of flaming polycarbonate embeded into the area around the head and neck
    - problematically /-ti-k(&-)lE/ adverb

    SD

  • Hmmm (Score:2)

    by mikers ( 137971 )
    Having brought the server to it's knees... Thanks /. So.... I'm just gonna read the headline and pull a insightful comment out of my as^H^Hpocket.

    " ... will bascially implode themselves with the new highspeed media that's coming out."

    Two words:
    Exploding Coasters!!

    m

  • And here's Pioneer's fix (Score:5, Informative)

    by BMonger ( 68213 ) on Wednesday September 18, 2002 @12:54PM (#4282785)
    http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/hs/ [pioneerelectronics.com]

    Dunno why that isn't posted in the article...
    • Dunno why that isn't posted in the article...


      Ummm, because the guy said he was an Apple user, and they have dud links for Apple users, and Apple doesn't have a fix, and the huuuuuge majority of these drives are in Apples?


      Or something... :o)

    • Great. Their "Macintosh Updater" link on that page links to one of those stupid "Under Construction" images.
      Those should be banned. If it's not up there yet, don't link to it.
      So, download the .exe updater and try to figure out how to boot it on an iMac. Put it in the floppy drive? Uh, no floppy. Run an .exe? Wrong arch.
      Doesn't really matter. I can't afford the standard DVD media, nevermind the 2x and 4x versions.
  • Well with the processors in the macs running "faster than light" this was just bound to happen. If you can't repect the physical laws of the universe you don't deserve to have a DVD burner, you can't have your cake and eat it to you know. This is just the universe's way of correcting the imbalance

  • Problems with install? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Oliver Wendell Jones ( 158103 ) on Wednesday September 18, 2002 @12:56PM (#4282802)
    "There's supposed to be a firmware patch to fix it, but it may be 'problematic' for users to install."

    Huh? I downloaded and installed the patch last night for my DVR-104 drive, it took practically no time to perform, and I think the only possible source of confusion was the "Are you sure you want to do this? [Yes] [No]" prompt... and if you can't figure that much out, maybe you're not smart enough to operate a DVD-RW drive in the first place...
    • Maybe not "problematic" for Windoze users, but for Linux and Mac users it's currently "impossible".

      HH
      • I wouldn't swear to it, but it appeared to be a DOS based application which means that you could always create a Free-DOS boot disk and boot from that to update your firmware.

        If you don't care about licensing issues, you can get free MS-DOS boot disks from here [bootdisk.com].

        If you're a Mac user, well... then you're screwed. Just make sure you don't buy any of the new high speed (which will most likely be more expensive) DVD-RW media until they release a Mac patch.

    • Uh huh. How about those without Microsoft operating systems installed?

  • Uh oh . . . (Score:5, Funny)

    by div_2n ( 525075 ) on Wednesday September 18, 2002 @12:56PM (#4282804)
    Talk about extreme Digital Rights Management . . .

  • It "implodes"? How so? (Score:3, Funny)

    by gosand ( 234100 ) on Wednesday September 18, 2002 @01:05PM (#4282860)
    So how exactly does a spinning drive implode? No wonder these drives suck, they violate the laws of physics.

  • Just what is there about the words "standards" and "compatibility" they can't understand?

    It's bad enough that there are so many flavors (about 8 at last count? DVD followed by "plus" or "minus" followed by "RAM" or "RW" or "R"...). Nobody can keep track of which are supposed to be compatible with each other and/or consumer DVD drives, and the ones that are supposed to be compatible sometimes aren't...

    Naturally it's too much to expect "new, improved" media to work in old drives. Why, that would be like expecting a "low-noise" tape cassette to work in a two-year-old cassette recorder... or ASA 800 film to work in a two-year-old camera... or API service grade SL motor oil to work in a two-year-old car.

    But at the VERY LEAST we should expect that new, improved media shouldn't DESTROY an old drive.

    What are we supposed to think? Pioneer was in such a darn rush that they never even bothered to put one of the new disks in one of the old drives even once?
    • Well, the new discs didn't exist for Pioneer to put in their drives at the time they were built. Otherwise, I'm sure they would have addressed the issue earlier.

      The new 4x DVD-R type media isn't even on store shelves yet - so nobody should have even encountered this problem yet.

      What does make me mad, though, is that despite filling out my registration card and sending it in - I was not notified by email, US Mail, or phone of this issue. I just learned about it because I'm a regular Slashdot reader.

      This is the type of thing you're supposed to get advance notice of if you register your product with the manufacturer! It should be "first heard of" in news articles.
  • Score! now i can finally have a way to get rid of all my aol disk-turned-coaster-turned-frisbees-turned-blowjob holes-turned-solar eclipes viewer...etc...
  • I'll skip the silly sensationalism. The drive won't "implode", some parts just risk melting because the laser isn't properly calibrated in the old firmware.

    But the interesting question is: does this mean that, with this new 4x media, my DVR-103 (which is a 2x DVD-R recorder) will record at 4x? If so, that's very nice to know.

    I already have the new firmware, by the way. Unlike the old updater (that required you to connect the drive as the primary IDE slave), the new one will automatically detect and update all your drives, no matter how they're connected (even via IEEE-1394).

    Now if only HP and Sony could do the same to make their DVD+RW recorders work with DVD+R as they promised... ;-)

    RMN
    ~~~

  • SuperDrive does DVD? (Score:4, Funny)

    by Erich ( 151 ) on Wednesday September 18, 2002 @01:42PM (#4283145) Homepage Journal
    I thought the SuperDrive was the drive that could read and write 1.4M floppy disks.

    I was really glad that it could... finally I could read and write DOS 1.4M floppy disks, Mac 1.4M floppy disks, 800K Mac floppies, and 720K Dos Floppies.

    I can't wait to pull out my old 512Ke with the external SuperDrive and start burning DVDs!

    Oh, you mean this is just another example of Marketing BuzzWord TermReuse? Crap.

    • Yeah, but the alternative is to have MegaDrive, UltraDrive, ExtraHappyDrive, FuckingIncredibleDrive, etc.

      I think in this case we're all just better off if we consider "SuperDrive" to mean "new drive from Apple that they're trippin' their egos on," so when the next one comes out we'll know what they're talking about immediately.

  • Implode? (Score:5, Funny)

    by guttentag ( 313541 ) on Wednesday September 18, 2002 @02:00PM (#4283322) Journal
    ...the drives "will bascially implode themselves
    CD/DVD drives are essentially centrifuges. As such, they are given to exploding at high speeds.

    If you have a centrifuge that's imploding at high speeds, there's nothing wrong with the device -- there's something amiss with physics in your point in space. Get out of house and contact your nearest physicist right away.

  • The firmware upgrade available from Pioneer was not problematic to install. Just download an .exe, run it, press OK to use the default temporary directory and ta-da, the firmware upgrade starts. It worked fine on my DVR-104.

  • Perhaps pestering Apple will prove a more fruitful

    Think this was intentional? If so it's a real groaner...

    Apple? Fruit? Oh, I get it. Somebody please hand me a gun - phorm

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