CIA Warns China Might Be Planning Cyber Attack 711
malibucreek writes "The Los Angeles Times is reporting that the CIA is warning of possible cyber-terrorism against U.S. and Taiwanese computer systems by the Chinese Army. Or, China could just launch a massive denial-of-service attack by sending billions of "GET HERBAL VIAGRA" e-mails from the .cn TLD." The article has a reasonable amount of information
and is probably worth a read if you're curious about what could be a real big
deal in the future.
National Firewall (Score:2, Interesting)
My personal choice would be to have a national firewall, even though it could be used against us, or limit our privacy. But at least we could completely shut off our internet access if another country decided to attach us.
Re:National Firewall (Score:2)
Re:National Firewall (Score:4, Insightful)
Do you really want to give any more control over the Internet to the government?
J
Re:National Firewall (Score:5, Funny)
They've already infultrated Slashdot! Oh, these Red Army types are much more sophisticated that I could have imagined! Using social engineering to keep US Geeks from countering their plot.
Good thing I saw through the disguise!
Be Very Afraid (Score:2)
Re:National Firewall (Score:3, Interesting)
Depends if we are attacked. After Sep. 11 people found surveillance cameras, wire tapping, packet sniffing, etc to be much more acceptable. I bet if China really did "cyber-attack" us, the government (along with the media) would hype it up as much as possible. Resulting in more funding for our national security agencies and more control over our information.
Oh, come on (Score:3, Interesting)
Remember the old adage: Digital security measures are always useless against someone who has physical access to the machine. Firewalls aren't much use if the hacker can physically get to a machine on the inside of the firewall..
Re:National Firewall (Score:2)
The fact that China keeps attacking before they have perfected the attacks means that we will gradually "evolve" the weaknesses and security risks out of the sytem. The first poster made a good point in commending China for helping reduce the number of insecure NT servers.
The best national firewall will be to develop internal mechanisms for countering the attacks. Even if we wrapped a condom around China, they would still be able to attack us by launching attacks on US soil, satellies and other methods.
Re:National Firewall (Score:4, Interesting)
All GPL and so-called 'Open' source transfers will be blocked to protect Microsoft's interoperability patents. Although GPL and so called 'Open' source was eliminated under the 2003 American Patriot and Copyright Protection Act, reports have shown that this scourge continues to proliferate in foreign lands. We will block all foreign ftp transfers to ensure that American jobs will remain secure. American jobs mean security for American citizens.
All enemy political propaganda websites, such as in the People's Republic of China, Muslim terrorists in the Middle East, Communist, Socialist, British Labor Party, all French and Dutch, and the (formerly) American Democratic Party will be blocked to ensure that Patriots do not become polluted with unsound ideals.
All unauthorized downloads from pirate, copyright-violating music sites and international file-sharing networks will be blocked as per the procedures in the American Patriot and Copyright Protection Act of 2003.
In addition, for our citizen's protection, all email received in the United States from foreign internet addresses will be checked for malicious, terrorist, or other prohibited activity to identify and aprehend enemies of the state that may be within our own borders.
Bah... (Score:2)
Not to mention that I don't trust them enough to stop themselves from abusing it.
Re:National Firewall (Score:2)
Marx: "The first social institution that fails under capitalism is the family." -- Kapital I (I think)
How is this any different than usual (Score:2)
How this is different than usual (Score:3)
Look out!! Behind you!! Oh, never mind, I must've scared him away.
Re:How this is different than usual (Score:3, Insightful)
> It's the CIA telling us about it. It is your duty as a Real and Patriotic
> American to take these threats seriously and to be afraid of the
> Enemies of Freedom at all times.
I know you were joking, but what you said makes a very valid point. Beyond the usual issue of whatever organization with a three letter acronym crying wolf yet again, there is the more important issue of how these "calls to panic" are in fact doing the terrorists work for them. Al Quada in particular have an easy job of it. They don't have to take the risks of actually trying an attack anymore, all they have to do is have their jailed members lie. It gets hyped by the media, and people panic nicely. If the media had half a brain, they would have realized by now that the only people in Al Quada that know about an attack before hand are Bin Laden and the guy leading it.
The duty of Americans is not to "be afraid of the Enemies of Freedom at all times". It is to be vigilant and kick their cans, if indeed they are evil. It is also the duty of Americans to stand up for our rights and the rights of others.
It is the sad results of a false patriotism that has pale pink and white rags proudly flying from yards and cars, poor filthy flags lying in the road, a capital overgrown with stinkweed politicians, and a loss of real freedom. Firewalls, strip searches, etc. aren't going to come and save us. It's the compassionate heart that saves a stranger's life in a disaster, the courageous heart that defends liberty, and the wise heart that cherishes happiness. Heart alone can conquer terror and restore peace and freedom.
America, what happened to your heart?!?
"Heart can reach where hand cannot. Climb over any wall..." Mothra (via Moll) "Mothra 3: King Ghidora Attacks"
We all know (from the movies)... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:We all know (from the movies)... (Score:2)
in the movie assasind, when they typed on the computer you could tell that they were not typing what came up on the screen. the key depression rate was WAY off from what was showing up on the screen.
Re:We all know (from the movies)... (Score:2)
The graphics were Mac OS lookalikes, although, like many Hollywood "computer" interfaces, it was running some nonexistent variant of the operating system. The windows, widgets and such are obviously Mac OS-derivative.
Funny that while 85% of the personal computer desktops are running Windows, that nearly 85% of the advertising about computer products or services show a Mac OS desktop or browser. (Well, I know why, but I'll let some other geniuses in on the subject.)
Massive DDoS? Against who? (Score:3, Interesting)
Since many mail administrators have simply blocked anything coming from the
I think for this to be effective, not only would Chinese administrators have to smarten up and close off their mail servers, but they would have to prove it to the rest of the world... that could take years.
To heck w/ cyberwar (Score:4, Insightful)
More jobs for us (Score:2)
Re:To heck w/ cyberwar (Score:4, Insightful)
Hang on a second, China has not invaded anywhere I am aware of, at least not recently and it certainly has not invaded Taiwan.
There are a lot of folk who would like to reignite the cold war and are looking for an enemy to pick a fight with. Great way to justify more increases in the 'defense' budget, the US is defenseless! yesss really, the US gets absolutely nothing in return for spending more on the military than the entire rest of the world (including allies) put together.
During the cold war we in Europe were told repeatedly that if the red army invaded (and they were itching to do so) that NATO could only last 3 days before resorting to nukes. Ignore the fact that the USSR were having their ass handed to them in Afghanistan. The military simulations started from the assumption that the USSR tanks were equal to the NATO tanks, ignore the fact that 60% of the Russian tanks were relics from WWII and they only had enough fuel to train for a few days a year and their troops were unwilling conscripts etc.
If we are not careful we will be driven to the same sort of destructive and pointless standoff with China.
The China/Taiwan situation is much more complex than the US media make it appear. First Taiwan agrees that it is part of China, in fact it still lays claims to the rest of China. More importantly however the Chineese politicians are not the Maoist revolutionaries the US media would have us believe. In fact the horrors of the cultural revolution are the principal fear, that and another round of foreign domination such as the one that practically reduced China to collonial status in the late 19th century.
The Chinese leadership show every sign of understanding that the one thing they can do that would absolutely make reuinification with Taiwan impossible is to invade.
What we have to do is to make sure that China continues on its present path which is definitely heading towards a more open, more democratic society. The US is certainly not in a position to extol the virtues of democracy after the administrations recent meddling in Venezuela. Presidents who go to the supreme court to stop the votes being counted do not have much credibility with me on that score, and GOP clones aside don't have much credibility in the rest of the world either.
Re:To heck w/ cyberwar (Score:3, Interesting)
Yes, last I heard China invaded fifty years ago, as I said China has not invaded anywhere recently. Not since Mao died and the gang of four were put on trial.
Don't tell me you believe the Chinese propaganda that Tibet has always been part of China
The 'propaganda' has considerably more truth than the US media admit. But the issue of what country has been part of another is irrelevant. The relevant question is what the people who live in Tibet want. You don't have to go back very far to find Texas and California used to be part of Mexico and were acquired through conquest. That does not mean that Mexico has rights to have the land back.
The nearest equivalent to the Tibet situation is in Turkey which is the remnants of the Ottoman empire which was formed through conquest. We don't know for sure whether the Kurds really want to be independent or not, all we do know is that the Turkish government ruthlessly supresses their language and culture, oh and they are one of our glorious NATO allies.
Call me a cynic, but I for one don't think it a good idea to blindly accept the administration telling us who the enemy is. I think the enemy of democracy are the folk who were busy organizing a coup in Venezuela. If we accept the administration line we have to consider that the governments who did not oppose deposing a democratically elected President, closure of the legislature, supreme court, etc. etc. were in favor of it.
I am quite willing to support organizations like Amnesty who report the attrocities committed against both the Tibetans and the Kurds. I am less willing to listen to the administration crying crocodile tears while selecting causes by the extent to which they meet their own ends.
"might"? "planning"? (Score:2, Funny)
sheesh
Also, there is evidence that certain Germans may covet Krakow. Be on the alert.
One if by land, two if by sea!
timothy
Re:"might"? "planning"? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:"might"? "planning"? (Score:2)
Norm Macdonald sucks, but that's one of his better lines.
ok, i'm starting a pool... (Score:3, Funny)
$10 a square, the bet - when will china simply be cut off the internet and all chinese traffic blocked by all of the major routers?
my guess is sooner than later. china already blocks the internet from itself, maybe its time for us to do if for them... although that herbal viagra really did work!!
Re:ok, i'm starting a pool... (Score:5, Funny)
Sure it does... Why do you think that there are so many Chinese?
What are the China-assigned netblocks? (Score:2)
Re:ok, i'm starting a pool... (Score:2)
Re:ok, i'm starting a pool... (Score:2, Flamebait)
And how can China afford to piss off the US? Who do you think buys most of the crap they make? China will need a much richer population before they have enough consumers to support their own industries.
I think I found it (Score:4, Informative)
http://ftp.apnic.net/stats/apnic/apnic-2002-04-
It shows APNIC assignments. You have to grep through the list to get just the CN assignments. It's a big, ugly, long list of 366 netblocks. 53
I'm gonna add it to the filter(s) at home and see what it does before I fubar the office with it.
Quoth the article (Score:3, Funny)
Despair? (Score:5, Insightful)
I worry that the Internet is doomed to irrevicably loose what made it so good (for me). Popup ads, spam, trolls, lamers in the doom-like of the season, and the concept of 'cyberwar' fill me with despair over how misguided most of humanity is. I fear that what is probably the best invention of my lifetime will be tarnished by greed, selfishness, and stupidity.
Guess this is how Environmentalists feel...
Re:Despair? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Despair? (Score:5, Funny)
When was the last time you read an article with the title:
"Congratulations! We're still not glowing!"
hell, this could be a great Onion Piece.
By. R. Jason Valentine.
Today, the world rejoiced. It's been 45 years since nuclear weaponry had reached numbers and yield to destroy all life on earth at least one time over, and we haven't done it yet. Senior level officials at Norad and the Pentagon were seen slapping each other on the back and smoking large cigars. Said one high-ranking official, "Man, I've never done my job - which basically involves blowing up the wholeworld - and I'm glad! I hear I'm even getting a bonus this year!"
Meanwhile, in Moscow, an unprecedented run on vodka was reported. One senior staff member noted, "Well, the Americans are getting hammered about not blowing up the world, so why shouldn't we?" Grumblings about no bonuses were quickly silenced, for fear of being "party-poopers".
Meanwhile, Tree-hugger doomsdayers were a bit more glum. Not only have they proven to be as reliable as Clinton's testimony, but if news of this celebration gets out, they could lose a significant portion of their funding. Some of the better amongst them have come up with a great new spin, proving that American ingenuity is still alive and well. The spin? "Doomsday nears as weapons controllers man stations with horrid hangover."
Re:Despair? (Score:2)
Confidential? (Score:5, Funny)
Confidential?
We are in trouble if the best way we know to keep things confidential is to give them to a major newspaper.
Re:Confidential? (Score:5, Insightful)
Are chinese citizens planning on attacking the US? Sure, so are American citizens.
Has the chinese government considered the possibility of cyber-attacking the US? Sure, just like we considered the possibility of dropping nukes on half the world recently.
Is the chinese government actively planning to attack the US? Not if they have even the remotest bit of sense in the world.
The chinese economy is _heavily_ dependent on the American economy. An attack on America would effectively be an attack on their own economy. The codependence of our economies is probably the only reason all-out-war hasn't broken out between us.
Remember though, money is absolutely the most powerful influence in diplomacy and there isn't much that could come in the way of the massive amounts of money being exchanged between China and the US.
My take on this? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:My take on this? (Score:2)
The "obvious" solution is to remove important networking systems from the internet requiring plenty of new infrastructure. New contracts... New equipment.... New departments.... New financing...
If there were ever such a Chinese state sponsered attack on Western governments from China would there not be a large amount of retaliation by private individuals?? I think it also unlikely that China would not be immediately blocked by the back bone providers if an attack ever occured. Somalia was cut off, why would China be any different?
Re:My take on this? (Score:3, Insightful)
In case of the cyber terrorism, there is tonnes of e-power (censorship, morality police, etc) and also cash -- the real fire wall would dwarf the great wall of china
Re:My take on this? (Score:5, Funny)
Oceania has always be at war with Eastasia.
Re:My take on this? (Score:4, Insightful)
Sorry to burst your bubble - but you are not.
However, that attitude might explain why your nation is held in the regard that it is...
Re:My take on this? (Score:2)
Re:My take on this? (Score:3, Interesting)
Why?
No really, why?
Because we have the most money, that's all. And that situation could change a lot faster than you'd probably be willing to believe.
Now, I remember a time when America was envied for reasons other than its money and power.
I seem to recall the US being regarded as being politically free, religiously tolerant, and relatively peaceful. Frankly, I think we became rich in the first place for these reasons.
Now, I am afraid, there are many countries that are more democratic, more free, and more tolerant than the US has become. Capital will now flow out of America to these places for the same reasons that it flowed into America in the first place.
Re:My take on this? (Score:5, Insightful)
Do you really think this is why America is hated? Because they envy us? Don't you suppose the fact that most of the bombs dropped in the world have "Made in the USA" on it might have a LITTLE something to do with the hatred thing?
Re:My take on this? (Score:5, Informative)
I own a nice house and have a job doing what I love. I can walk on the street at night without fear of being shot by any maniac who bought a gun at the seven eleven, and my governmente is not breathing down my neck to protect Disney's encryption schemes. And, most of all, I don't feel like the world should envy me, nor do I confuse material prosperoty with hapiness.
Reread your message, and realize why a lot of people dislike americans. A hint: It has nothing to do with having; it has to do with the way you are. You are the Microsoft of the world.
Dear me, I think I just trolled a troll.
Not a great assumption... (Score:4, Interesting)
Personally, I wish that the US govt would do more to examine what it is doing and stop going out of its way to make new enemies. Believe it or not, I'm not alone in this wish... maybe someday we all can get along...
My friend, I wish I had your enthusiasm. More than likely, perhaps millions of years in the future, the last living man on earth will most likely drown trying to attack its own reflection in a lake.
The truth of the matter, I believe the wholesale behavior of nations are just as insane and lacking in judgement as the people that make them up. So if a nation (as a whole) acts nuts, well then, there you go. Perhaps most of the people there are nuts too.
The USA doesn't act stupid. The USA is admittedly greedy. Not nuts or stupid. Not any more nuts than Rome acted before the whole lead in the drinking water thing, and look what they did. To think that other nations think that we are a bunch of stupid cowboys only gives us a tactical advantage. Keep thinking that. Its that same thinking that deep, hidden rock caves can save you in 21st century warfare. And that you can attack innocents in a twitchy, militaristic nation and not get some serious retribution.
I share the same feeling about most nations as I do the USA. Not nuts, not stupid, just trying to carve something for themselves. Not as greedy as America perhaps, but certainly not a bunch of saints because they're not America.
However, Saudi Arabia (and many Arabic nations) appear on the outside to be nuts. Not evil. Nuts. Any nation that enforces its dress code lethtally, speaks to the President of "the meanest dog on the street" like he is a piece of crap and HAS NO REAL ARMY TO BACK THAT SHIT UP, and then has a member of its diplomatic corps for the UK print poetry about the glorious death of their hijackers killing innocents, well then, there you go. Nuts. Not acting in a sane way. Practically begging to get fucked with by the CIA. Or killed. You just don't talk to "ol hot head" like that.
Don't even get me started on Israel.
Also, I would argue that the US has done great controlling the world. We shouldn't want to control the world, but we certainly aren't piss poor at it.
The anti-civilization nutties are rising up now, but that is because they haven't threatened me (meaning the citizens of the world) personally.
When Hussein or someone decides to make New York dissapear in a blinding white flash, well, then they will see what happens when the US starts conscripting troops, and we open up all of those warehouses full of rifles and ammo we've been stockpiling for two generations. We're the only ones fully prepared for straight up war all over the globe.
I've been to those military bases, it scares the hell out of me to see that much weaponry, and I'm an American.
But I don't think we're going to flip out real soon, though, unless someone flips out on us first, and I think that many Arabic nations have been waiting to flip out on everyone not themselves. They have been attacking the reflection in the water for generations.
Re:My take on this? (Score:3, Insightful)
There certainly plenty of poverty in Mexico, and the US do have much more material wealth. Yet, a lot of illegal workers go there and work for seasons, to return to their hometowns and live on what they made. Or they send the money to the families they leave behind. Most of them go seeking work because they have none here, but will return as soon as they can. Mexicans are mostly proud of their roots, and like their life here except when there is no work.
So, I don't contend that the US has a higher income per capita, and more material wealth. But quality of life, that I don't think you have a lot.
Then again, I call them as I see them, but can't vouch for the perfection of my sight
Again, thanks. It is this kind of exchange that one hopes for when coming to Slashdot (but, alas, that too often is not found).
Re:My take on this? (Score:5, Informative)
Actually yes, I made that little comparison in a post some months ago, the US is the MS of the world. Just as Billy boy can't accept that he's not loved by all and that MS products aren't the answer to life, the universe and everything, the US cannot accept that they're not loved by all and that some of its actions aren't really done for the good of the world.
Don't get me wrong, I don't hate the US, but, the actions, methods and politics of the US goverment leaves a lot to be desired from this point of view, and that criticism tends to be taken by americans as an attack on their person and they step in to defend their nation ano matter what the case presented is.
Re:My take on this? (Score:2)
Re:My take on this? (Score:2)
Who says Cyber Attacks need be DOS based? (Score:3, Funny)
China's secret cyber-terrorism plot (Score:5, Funny)
Retaliation? (Score:2, Insightful)
CIA Warns China Might Be Planning Cyber Attack (Score:2, Funny)
Red Herring To Get More Govt Funding and Laws (Score:5, Insightful)
Never underestimate the extent the government will go...for example it's widely suspected the anthrax attacks last year was a government test gone awry; or perhaps more sinister, such as a way to get lots of extra funding and laws passed fast with little resistance - most everyone I've spoken with who has truly read the Patriot Act is appalled at the total disregard of the U.S. Constitution and basic human rights.
Bottom line is don't believe all you read - but then most here already know that...for the biggest threats to our security are from within...another reason the U.S. government should NOT develop mini-nukes (a misnomer to say the least!) for it's likely they will be used against us at some point...technology is a double-edged sword and thus we should not rely solely on it to solve our problems.
Ok, I really rambled on here, but anyways one must be careful what they believe...for the U.S. propaganda machine is running full-tilt these days to stuff our minds full of garbage and lies...it's happened before and is happening now!
Re:Red Herring To Get More Govt Funding and Laws (Score:4, Funny)
Uh, I think you need to adjust your tinfoil hat, there.
At least try to have your conspiracy theories make some kind of sense. Exactly what kind of government test can go awry, resulting in anthrax being mailed to US senators?
Prof. Egbert: "Jenkins, I asked you to put that anthrax back into deep freeze, and mail our funding request to the capitol...I found our funding request in the freezer, but where is the anthrax?"
Prof Jenkins: "D'oh!"
Re:Red Herring To Get More Govt Funding and Laws (Score:5, Interesting)
Check these articles: 2nd Leak Of Anthrax Found at Army Lab [washingtonpost.com]
Or this one: investigation raised the possibility that there was a secret CIA project to investigate methods of sending anthrax [bbc.co.uk]
Excerpt:
Re:Red Herring To Get More Govt Funding and Laws (Score:2)
I don't suppose you could provide a reference from some reputable source for this suspicion?
Or is it too late for that and we should all get our tinfoil hats on...
Re:Red Herring To Get More Govt Funding and Laws (Score:2)
Read this article: investigation raised the possibility that there was a secret CIA project to investigate methods of sending anthrax through the mail which went madly out of control. [bbc.co.uk]
Excerpt:
Is BBC News enough of a reputable source?
Re:Red Herring To Get More Govt Funding and Laws (Score:2)
;)
Just because it doesn't come from a major newspaper is no reason to assume it to be false.
Yes! I'm damage! Unplug me! (Score:2, Interesting)
What do you think the networks will do when a nation's government proves to spew this kind of noise all over the world? China could get on everybody's hit list by doing something like that. In that regard, it seems somehow counterproductive.
I'm not saying it's impossible, a sufficiently short-sighted government (say, one that calls itself the "Peoples' Liberation Army" and expects people to believe it after mashing students with tanks) might attempt it.
But in light of the possible consequences, it seems somehow e-suicidal.
Giant Spam Attack! (Score:2)
That's like threatening to pour a glass of water on someone's head, while they are taking a shower.
I already GET 15,000 different INCREASE YOUR MANHOOD and HELLO FUTURE MILLIONAIRE emails, like another 5000 from China are even going to make a dent.
Military systems? Probably not. (Score:2)
The reason is simple: US military systems are NOT connected to the commercial Internet. Given that we have devoted a lot of resources to monitor and safeguard our military communications, the Chinese won't dent much of our military communications unless they deliberately drop a nuclear bomb against our military command centers (and even that won't quite work because we have contingency plans thanks to Looking Glass and NEACAP planes).
Now, China deliberately interfering with the commercial Internet is something else, though. However, careful design of routers and careful firewall installation will likely limit any damage since the Internet doesn't really have any critical points that can bring down most of the Internet.
Be Vare, Take Care (in Bela Lugosi accent!) (Score:3, Funny)
"Are you guys planning to attack Chinese computer systems?"
"Of course."
So the thinking goes, if we're planning on how to do it, so are they. Ergo:
CHINESE MAY BE PLANNING ATTACK ON US & TIAWAN COMPUTER SYSTEMS!
Awake! Awake! Fear - Fire - Foes! Awake!
The Russians are also planning on retaliating against a major nuclear attack from the US by launching thier own massive nuclear attack.
Ain't none of it actually likely to happen.
Hellooooo? Spoiler warning! (Score:2, Funny)
Maybe some of us wanted to be surprised when the cyber attack comes? Geez....
CIA: Damned if they do, damned if they don't (Score:5, Insightful)
A) This is lame. China cant or won't do this, and the CIA is stupid for thinking they can.
B) This is all part of some plot on the part of the CIA to get more funding and/or strip away all of our remaining freedoms.
The CIA's primary role is to examine information from a wide variety of sources and attempt to categorize and where possible act to mitigate short-term and long-term threats to the security of the United States. Given that their job is akin to predicting the future, and given that even with tremendous resources, predicting the future is exceedingly difficult, the CIA will miss a lot of things that look obvious in hindsight (Al-Quaeda was planning an attack on NYC!).So the public says "shame on you, CIA, for not spotting that obvious threat!"
But then, they often catch things that you and I aren't even aware of. They actually do this on a routine basis, and often times American foreign policy is directly influenced by information the CIA has successfully collected and/or analyzed. Of course, the CIA can't go around trumpeting these successes, because it decreases the odds of them being successful in the future.
So China may or may not be planning cyber-attacks on Taiwan and/or the United States. Do you really think that you for some reason know better than the CIA what's going on in the minds of China's rulers?
The CIA has been very wrong in the past, but more often than not, they're right. Also, remember that if China doesn't launch such attacks, it's not necessarily proof that the CIA was in error. It could be that by leaking their knowledge of Chinese plans, the CIA is betting that they'll elect not to try it.
Re:You refute yourself (Score:3, Insightful)
If they don't even want to tell about the times they've been right in the past, it is even less of a chance that they will tell the public a truthful prediction of the future (like this alledgedly is).
What the CIA says publicly will obviously have no correlation (neither positive nor negative) with what they really think is the truth. They will simply give statements that they think have a desired effect, either on the american public or on foreign governments. How could it be otherwise? This is not because they are "evil" or whatever. It is their job.
Do you really think that you for some reason know better than the CIA what's going on in the minds of China's rulers?
This is a strawman. I certainly do not think so, neither do anyone else. The real question is: Do you really think that you know what the CIA knows about the minds of the rulers of China? What would CIA possibly have to gain by being consistently truthful in what they say to you to you (about as much as if they were consistently lying, I suppose)?
The conclusion must be that to extract any information whatsoever from the CIA, you have to analyze what they say. Do they have anything to gain by lying about this matter? (Yes, a lot - More threats = more budget). Do they have anything to gain by being truthful (Sure - If they think it is a real threat, it is only good if the servers get prepared). This analysis give no reason to believe either one or the other. In other words, the article has almost zero informational content.
Simple, no? A bit of critical thinking will get you a long way.
what this attack will comprise of (Score:2)
As an American who has lived in Taiwan for most of (Score:4, Insightful)
You want to know about a spooky country--Japan. That's a scare story that has everything to do with Taiwan. Those whacky Japanese are playing scuicide with their economy and they're going to take Taiwan with them.
DOS attacks from Mainland China are not a threat, Japan's serene implosion is a major threat to the global economy. DOS attacks, not scarry, Yen at 200, very very scarry.
Laugh it up, Pal (Score:2, Interesting)
On the other hand, that DOS attacks will occur is as newsworthy as saying that your children will have colds sometimes. It's all a part of growing up.
Chinese hackers are no pushovers (Score:5, Interesting)
Some MS boxen got "f**k USA government f**k poizonbox" pasted all over their IIS roots. Not much beyond that, and I think some American hackers returned the favor. A little miniature patriotic hacker war.
Out of curiosity, I kept up to date on Chinese hacking at a site whose address is www.cnhonker.com (visit at your own risk, and don't hit the Back button
But very recently, in March, the site was closed by someone called "lion". I had a Chinese coworker of mine visit the site, and she translated the brief explanation for the site's closing as "After long thinking, we have no choice but close it. Please don't write to us asking why, give us a little time. We'll be back. September 2002, we'll see you again"
I am not much of a conspiracy theorist, but when it comes to autocratic governments, my instincts change... any bets on whether or not the Chinese Government has coopted some of their talented hackers for a patriotic cause?
What do they have to gain? (Score:2)
I've already blocked them. If the eggheads can't control their mail servers I really don't want any traffic from them. They aren't getting me any business.
Can anyone give me a reason that I SHOULDN'T block those racists?
Treaty forcing Embargo Tactic (Score:2)
This is all about enacting a treaty that will allow us to pursue "cyber-terrorists" into the networks of china, rather than allowing the world to hack a chinese box and have anonymity.
Scare the public into blocking china's net access and see how quickly they allow info-extradition treaties to form.
In other news... (Score:5, Insightful)
Why does the US always feel that it is justified in arming itself with every weapon imaginable but others aren't. Remember what happened when India and Pakistan tested their nukes?
If they are developing methods of attacking via the Internet, so are we. Yes its a good thing we know of its possibility and are going to take steps to defend ourselves incase such an attack occurs, however, it doesn't mean the Chinese are "evil terrorist hackers!"
Just my opinion anyway.
Copy of the warning message (Score:2, Funny)
---
From: eli7ehax0r@yahoo.cn
to: President@Whitehouse.gov
Subject: fuck poiSonB0x!
ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO US.
FUCk PoiSonB0x! Mr. President@!!!!!`
from: #poisonB0x@irc.haxor.cn
w3 are leetest. America must die!!!
---
Needless to say, the US elite anti-terrorism squads are taking the very seriously, and will start bombing China immediately.
(note: lameness filter sucks.)
More FUD... (Score:4, Insightful)
Furthermore, isn't leaking classified information treason? Yeah. So read it and write it off as "FUD". China simply wouldn't be able to hack into the U.S. systems - if we thought there was a threat, we could simply temporarily disconnect the overseas backbones (of which there are suprisingly few). Beyond that, the military, for some time, has used satellites to communicate; and every critical computer system is connected to a separate internal network, with no contact points to the Internet.
If China wants to drop some Spec. Ops. onto the Pentagon, that's a whole different story. But for now I'm not worried. Unless they try and DOS whitehouse.gov and kill all my RtCW ping times.
Re:More FUD... (Score:3, Informative)
Uh, no. The Supreme Court requires a "clear and present danger" to allow prior restraint; the example they gave is that it would be acceptable to restrain the media from releasing the location of troop ships at sea during wartime. Prior restraint is presumed unconstitutional, the burden of proof is on the government to convince a judge that the information must be kept secret. Security clearances don't do anything to stop the media if they get their hands on something, only the government employee that leaked the information can be (hypothetically) punished...
Furthermore, isn't leaking classified information treason? Yeah
No, it isn't.
--
Benjamin Coates
Fear mongering (Score:2)
I especially love the part where it tells us how 'future conflicts will be cyber in nature'. Whatever, we dropped bombs in WWII without computers I'm sure we can do it now.
Stupid fear mongering, move along
defensive vs. offensive security research (Score:5, Insightful)
The L.A. Times piece cites the CIA as saying that the People's Liberation Amry is conducting "research into offensive-minded cyber-tools" with the intent to cause damage to U.S. and Tawainese systems.
A technical contact at the Chinese Embassy in Washington counters that the research conducted by the Chinese government is purely defensive in nature.
There is no difference between offensive and defensive research except the intent, right? I mean, you could write a virus strictly for a deeper understanding of viral algorithms and how to protect against them. You could study more secure firewalls in order to circumvent them.
In short, the CIA can't prove that the research is offensive in nature unless they have intercepted Chinese plans to utilize the research in an offensive way. Similarly, it would be even harder for the Chinese to prove that it is defensive.
Therefore the news content in this article is essentially this: the CIA noticed that Chinese government studies network security.
Satellites (Score:2)
This isn't significantly different from the militarizaton of space. China has space launch capabilities, and it doesn't take more than simple collision to destroy a satellite. Yet I don't worry about China (or anybody else) knocking US (or anybody else's) satellites out of the sky.
Why? Because an attack on our satellites would be no different from, say, offshore planes or ships jamming radio signals, or, for that matter, a bunch of commandoes blowing up inland transmission towers. It's a potentially devastating move, but it's also unquestionably an attack on the US and an obvious precursor to invasion or nuclear attack.
A concerted attack on the Internet, and especially on Amereican military computers that are connected to the Internet, is every bit the act of war as are the other scenarios.
Folks, the Chinese are not stupid. For all the sabre-rattling Beijing might do (and let's not forget that Washington's swords are pretty noisy, themselves), they're not about to commit species suicide anytime soon. MAD aside, China is no match for the US militarily in an all-out war, and that's what we've promised if they invade Taiwan. They might not like it, but they know it.
Should the military take steps to protect themselves against such an attack? Of course. But the rest of us shouldn't worry about it any more than we worry about CNN going off the air due to military action.
b&
Cold War 2: The Yellow Menace (Score:2)
Sheesh, I wish these politicians and spooks would grow up. The Yellow Menace went out with poodle skirts and tailfins. These poor blokes, with George "how do you spell W?" Bush at their head, need an enemy to pad their profit lines.
Yeah, some Chinese twits might do something annoying -- just like our own twits. Why are *their* twits worse? I can hazard a guess...
A lot of FUD? (Score:2)
Maybe I'm naive, but I don't see how short of a "deep plant" to get an agent "inside" in a position of responsibility, very good social engineering or physical sabotage/attacks, hackers (from any part of the world) could cause REAL crippling damage (more than just defacing web sites or destroying non-critical servers).
NEEDS MORE XENOPHOBIA (Score:5, Insightful)
Ok, so public support for Operation Bomb the Towelheads is declining; what's the government to do? I know! Let's make the American people xenophobic of ANOTHER socioreligious group!
What this all boils down to is a game of hide-the-sasuage that the government is playing with us. The general public is like a herd of buffalo: pretty dumb, hard to get moving, hard to turn, hard to stop when they ARE moving. Apparently support of the US' support of Israel (as Israel plays their own game of Bomb the Towelys) is waning, so the US needs another shiny object with which to distract the herd.
Hmm, I know how to distract them! Let's release a shiny press releas^H^H^H^H news item! Let's see, it's buzzword bingo time:
Hackers? CHECK
Cyber-terrorism? CHECK
Red commie Chinese? CHECK
SHINY OBJECT COMPLETED. DO YOU WISH TO DEPLOY? (Y/N)
DISTRACTION SUCCESSFUL, YOU MAY RECOMMENCE BOMBING OF THE ARAB NATION.
[/flamebait]
I'm sorry if I sound cynical, but the public seems to be infinitely stupid and the government seems to be infinitely willing to leverage this stupidity to their advantage. Just planting the meme of "Chinese Cyber-terrorists!" is bad enough. What's even worse is that the lemmings will be talking about this vaporous Chinese threat over the watercooler tomorrow morning instead of talking about how Israel murdered so many Palestinians and buried them in a mass grave.
It's a red herring planted by a cynical government which isn't afraid to use blatant misdirection to draw attention away from itself.
With all the spam we get from Taiwan and China (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Why?? (Score:4, Interesting)
Unfortunately what the administration has found is that it has opened up Pandora's box and does not know how to handle it anymore. And like you said, it has fallen back 15 years to Reaganism. The thing is, a good majority of the administration are from the Reagan era. It is much easier to lead a country back during the Cold War than it is now. When you know who your enemies are and can rally support against a common enemy, you can pretty much push anything through legistlation. In the past 6 months or so, the administration has tried to find a common enemy (first terrorists, but since that is a broad term, moved onto Usama Bin ladin, and since we can't find him, moved onto al Qaeda then Taliban, etc, etc...)
Bush has had it out for China since he first stepped into office. Remember the US spy plane incident? [washingtonpost.com]. And honestly, China isn't doing anything worse than what the US has been doing for years. I would say distrupting and ousting a democratically elected leader of a country [nytimes.com] is a bigger crime than DDoS that is talked about in this article.
Re:Why?? (Score:2)
I'd like to see who all is back from the Reagan era. I know Cheney and Rumsfeld. Admitidly two very high ranking officials, but who else. It seems a bit generous to say "a good majority"
Unfortunately what the administration has found is that it has opened up Pandora's box and does not know how to handle it anymore.
Just when did the US create a situation in the middle east? Look at Britain that created Israel. Look at the arab countries for attacking Israel. Look at Israel for rocketing innocent people. Look at childish leaders that can't agree on how to meet for peace, let alone discuss peace terms. There are lots of people to blame for the problems but hardly the US, unless giving hope of some sort of peace settlement is a bad thing.
Re:Bushy da Clown, Hank da War Criminal, Dick da G (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Bushy da Clown, Hank da War Criminal, Dick da G (Score:2)
Re:Bushy da Clown, Hank da War Criminal, Dick da G (Score:2)
Anyhoo, I grew up speaking German so what's the fucking difference? I am sure you would have loved Germany's policies toward those who dissent if they had won WWII. They labelled them treasonous and shot them. Isn't that what you are doing, you fascist.
Be careful what you ask for (Score:2)
Consider for the moment that China is a xenophobic nuclear power, and that they have little regard for the lives of their own citizens (c.f Cultural Revolution, Tianneman Square). How much regard do you think they would have for USian soldiers or civilians? China would be fighting against the barbarians at the gate, and there is a dim-witted cowboy in the Whitehouse. It scares me to think who would be tempted to press the big red button first.
I do not think that it would be in anyone on this planet's interest for China and the US to fight any sort of war...
Re:Probably already doing it... (Score:2)
Yes, but the SPAM tends to originate from Western spammers who use open SMTP relays in China.
Re:Probably already doing it... (Score:2)
And to add insult to injury, they are probably running pirated copies of Exchange too. Take that Bill!
Re:Probably already doing it... (Score:2, Informative)
Maybe but why (Score:2)
They might spy on us, but we spy on them too.
Attacking us is not going to happen, they wouldnt gain anything out of it.
Re:Maybe but why (Score:3, Interesting)
1. World war - Take out the entire Internet infrastructure, same as binLaden tried to take out the world financial system.
2. Surgical strike - Take out parts of the Internet infrastructure. The Chinese already have heavy controls on their own Internet. If they're this paranoid, they'll want some control over the outside. How do I shut down cnn.com in an emergency if China does another WTC as a diversion to create panic? WTC2 is a diversion for the Chinese military strike force to invade Taiwan while the US licks it's wounds assisted by panic due to the Internet being down. Hit the edge routers, via a weakness in IOS or DoS giving the BGP tables corrupted updates at major ISPs (use an infiltrator if necessary), plus SNMP plaintext password etc.
3. How do I silence a Chinese whistleblower that just posted some Chinese secret to indeymedia.org? DDoS against inymedia.org webserver, edge routers, Kazaa login system (single point of failure), Gnutella, and Freenet networks. Harness extra CPU by hijacking SETI@home program auto-update's DNS entry (IP address) OR reverse-IPmasquerading to Chinese Govt. server with trojan SETI@home update (their routers already do fancy stuff) [slashdot.org]. This trojan will gradually roll out to all Chinese SETI@home clients and perform DDoS against the above targets. While the website is down the nearest Chinese spy will kill whoever, like when the Russians assassinated Vladimir Kostov [infowar.com], a journalist that talked too much while he was walking down a London (England) street.
Re:Maybe but why (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Catch-22? (Score:2)
Maybe movie hackers or something, these hackers seem mostly interested in breaking and defacing things, a skill set governments have been interested in cultivating and controlling for centuries.
Be wary though, for when the enemy is gone, it is you who will be the enemy.
Sound advice.
--
Benjamin Coates
Re:Blame them for this, blame them for that. (Score:5, Insightful)
No, in order to do that, we'd need to build two 110-story buildings in Riyadh (there aren't any [skyscraperpage.com], natch), fill them with office workers, and blow them up.
--
Benjamin Coates