Wireless, GPS-Loaded 'Bait Car' Traps Thieves 794
captainClassLoader writes: "The Washington Post is reporting that a late-model car, loaded with wireless surveillance gear, a remote kill switch and GPS, is being left (unlocked, presumably) on the streets of the Washington, D.C. metro area as 'bait' for car thieves. This article reports that they've just made their first bust with the vehicle."
I wonder.... (Score:5, Funny)
Who pays the parking tickets on these?
GPS: "Help! I'm being towed!"
Re:I wonder.... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:I wonder.... (Score:5, Funny)
Mercedes: Hello sir, I am calling to let you know that a few minutes ago, your car was stolen. It is possible that it was towed, but given the neighborhood where you parked it . .
Me: Crap. You mean that someone is breaking into my car?
Mercedes: No. Our system doesn't trigger an alert until your car is actually in motion. Someone has already broken into your car. Now they are driving away with it.
Me: Crap.
Mercedes: Have a nice day. In the event that you don't recover your car, you might consider our all new 2002 Mercedes models.
Re:I wonder.... (Score:5, Informative)
All Mercedes models with the Tele Aid system (Similar to On*Star) installed have GPS hardware. You have to subscribe to have it activated, though. Once subscribed, you can call Mercedes and ask them to locate your car for you at any time for any reason (where's my wife?). As long as the car is on and visible to GPS, they can give you an approximate location. Location requests remain active for up to 14 days if they don't locate the car immediately. Location isn't really what Tele Aid is for, though.
Instead, Mercedes also promotes the LoJack [lojack.com] Locator system. LoJack apparently has a better signal strength and doesn't rely on GPS, but rather on cellular triangulation. Many police departments have cars equipped with LoJack tracking systems as well. There's no subscription fee, just the purchase of the unit itself (around $600) which is covered for the life of the car. The only drawback is that you have to be in a covered area for it to work, so if the thief is smart and can get to the desert before you call the cops, you might be out of luck.
According to LoJack's website, approximately 25% of their recoveries [lojack.com] result in an arrest. You also typically get a pretty good break on insurance, so the costs are somewhat offset.
The Mercedes Tele Aid system is designed primarily for driver convenience (Where am I? Where's my car? Can you tell me how to get to the nearest dealer/restaurant/gas station) while LoJack's sole purpose is post-theft vehicle recovery.
I suspect that the DC bait car is using something similar to LoJack - I believe there's an FCC band dedicated to law enforcement recovery type things.
Wow... I sounded like a commercial there, didn't I? I will say that LoJack does provide peace of mind and I was much more willing to spend $600 on it than $240/year for Tele Aid. It takes a darn good product for me to provide a recommendation - but if you've got a high-end or high-theft-risk car, LoJack is definitely worth the money.
Re:I wonder.... (Score:4, Informative)
LoJack is a decent system, but you get no added benefit over the standard GPS locator except it's hidden in one of 27 I think) spots. Tele-Aid is awesome though, and you should have gotten the first year free. If not, go bitch at your dealer.
The funny thing about it, nobody steals Mercedes. Those that do, LoJack isn't going to do shit or they stole it just to trash it and it doesn't matter.
There are very very very good reasons as to why civics and camry's are so widely stolen. They are easy to chop, high resale on parts because everyone has one of the cars just about. Mercedes/Ferrari/BMW/etc are not high-theft-risk cars. They say you should get LoJack so they get money, go read the reports.. you'll never see Mercedes on the top 10.
Re:I wonder.... (Score:3, Informative)
Popular "mass market" cars are often stolen because the parts are easy to get rid of. There are millions of people with cars that can use the parts. There are also lots of unscrupulous people who will buy an engine or a transmission or wheels or seats from a stolen car, not caring that they are supporting auto thievery.
A rare car which is stolen would be of little use, since the only places that service those cars are specialty shops and dealers. Neither those businesses nor their customers would be inclined to get involved in illegal activity such as receiving stolen parts.
The only exception to this would be cars which are stolen "to order". Perhaps a mob boss wants a new Bentley, but doesn't want to go to a dealer and buy it. He could hire someone to steal it for him and then pay him in dirty unlaundered money. He would of course need his own mechanic who can repair the car for him, since he would be unable to take a stolen car to a dealer for service. So this scenario isn't very likely.
Cars aren't stolen randomly, they are stolen for a profit. The only cases of random car theft would be for joyrides, and because of the risk involved for no financial gain, most criminals wouldn't be inclined to do it.
Cryptnotic
Re:I wonder.... (Score:4, Interesting)
Actually, Lojack blows. I bought that line of crap and purchased Lojack. My car was stolen in broad daylight from a bank parking lot. I was only in for 15 minutes, so I know I caught it in a reasonable timeframe. I called Lojack, they said just report it to the Chicago Police and the system will be activated. Not true. It got activated 4 hours later when the record was transferred from the Chicago computer system to the Illinois computer system. By then, the car was stripped and the Lojack disabled.
What I also learned in the process is the way Lojack works. When it gets activated it starts emitting a signal. When it gets near a lojack equipped cop car, the cop gets a signal then triangulates in on it. If they do not come near a cop car with the right gear, they are free and clear. If they steal it out of your garage at 11pm and you don't discover it until 7am, you are also SOL.
If any of you are thinking of this kind of thing, look for something that is more proactive like periodically (every half hour or so) sending in your location to a computer. Or, even better, sending in the location every minute when an alarm (possibly a silent alarm) has been triggered as this kind of minimizes privacy issues. This kind of thing would allow you to track after the fact where it is (or at least where it last sent a signal from).
Hopefully with GPRS (and/or "3G") packet oriented services this will be cheap to do, and even pretty easy to DIY as you could have it just send the data back to your computer.
Bottom line, Lojack failed me, the process is full of holes well beyond the obvious ones. Also note, their "guarantee" is not for life, only the "service" is. When I tried to collect, they said I was out of warranty and the fact it was not triggered in time was the fault of the Chicago Police, not theirs. It is a typical good idea, poor execution.
"Wireless"? (Score:5, Funny)
Was there a (not-so-successful) previous attempt at this, but with wires coming out of it?
Re:"Wireless"? (Score:3, Funny)
Although some were caught contemplating it by the television crew parked next to the car, no one seemed to raise the courage to attempt stealing the car.
Of course, it could have just been stage frieght...
---
Swiss Cheese - The ultimate paradox.
The more cheese, the more holes. The more holes, the less cheese.
Therefore, the more cheese, the less cheese.
Thats not really new... (Score:2, Informative)
Hrm... (Score:2, Interesting)
Thieves in my area steal the cars with OnStar right off the light...sure, they catch them but usually it's a little too late.
were the (Score:2)
Re:were the (Score:2)
Awesome! (Score:4, Funny)
Bike Theives Must Die!!! (Score:5, Interesting)
I live in NYC and nothing turns my stomach more walking down the sidewalks is seeing a bike chained to a pole stripped everything attached with a bolt. I am an avid cyclist in the city and I would never, ever leave my bike outside because of theft. Cops don't even care. They don't seem to realize that bikes can cost hundred and hundreds of dollars or like my Specialized, thousands. It is a big deal monetarily.
ABC had a 20/20 episode where they had a hidden camera and a bike chained to a post. It took only 5 minutes before the thieves went after it every time they set it up. Typical response of the thief was "Oh, I thought this was my bike. Sorry!", then they would run away.
Re:Bike Theives Must Die!!! (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Bike Theives Must Die!!! (Score:3, Funny)
Can't say that I had any sympathy for the young punk. Justice was served on the street. Then again, Charles Bronson in Death Wish is one of my all time favorite flicks.
Good use of technology (Score:5, Insightful)
I wonder if this technology would be extended to the private consumer level?
Re:Good use of technology (Score:2, Informative)
The best part is that they have made a deal with auto insurance companies, so that you don't pay the deductible on auto theft.
It has been in Paris for a little while already.
Artaxerxes
Re:Good use of technology (Score:3, Funny)
Scenario: Thief picks up car, likes car. Picks up hitchhiker. Gets out at 7-11. Says wait here. Police bust car and Hitchhiker. Thief sees bust, coolly walks away from 7-11 slurping Bruisin Berry Big Gulp.
Obvious solution: Ban Bruisin Berry Big Gulps
Not in Hollywood.... (Score:3, Funny)
I'm now waiting for the first action movie out of Hollywood that features a tough, no-nails cop breaking into an available car to chase an escaping murder suspect, only to be stopped in traffic two minutes later by a different part of the department.
Re:Good use of technology (Score:3, Insightful)
"Entrapment is where the government plants the seed of a crime in the mind of individual who would not otherwise be criminally inclined," Trodden said. " . . . We don't want that. But if we had somebody who was out there, ready to steal something . . . it's good police work."
Take issue with that if you want. Apparently by US law it is not entrapment.
Out of Curiosity (Score:2, Funny)
No entrapment here ... (Score:2)
Entrapment is when, say, an undercover cop suggests the idea of the crime in the first place. For example, if some plainclothes cop came up to the guy and said "Hey, Jose, look at that: some jerk left his Camry unlocked. If you steal it I'll help you fence it".
Re:Out of Curiosity (Score:4, Insightful)
If a male officier acts like a drug dealer and busts a potential client is this entrapment? No.
If the Dukes of Hazard are flying down the road at 55 mph and pass by a speed limit sign that says 55 mph, just to have Rosco flip a switch which changes it to 35 mph construction zone, is this entrapment. Yes.
Re:Out of Curiosity (Score:5, Interesting)
If a male officier acts like a drug dealer and busts a potential client is this entrapment? No.
Now wait a sec. It depends (or should, at least) on how hard the undercover cop insists on the victim (yeah, victim) accepting the illegal service.
I saw a documentary in which an undercover female cop in San Francisco addressed a passerby (yes, she talked to him first) offering a blowjob for $20. He said no. She insisted. She stuck to him. She bugged him to no end for about 5 minutes, slashed the price to $10 until he finally accepted. Then they made the bust. The cops involved swore to God it wasn't entrapment, and the guy had to go through a day-long ritual of hysterical humiliation in order to learn the most evil object in the Universe is the Y chromosome. Sick, I tells ya.
Re:Out of Curiosity (Score:3, Funny)
Arlington, VA (Score:5, Interesting)
But I'm surprised the headline wasn't: Grand Theft Auto Illegal in Arlington, VA (yro, games)!
Hello, my name is K.I.T.T.! (Score:3, Funny)
Entrapment! Or, not... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Entrapment! Or, not... (Score:2)
My only concern is that it's so EASY, cops may just get lazy and not develop the good old "detective skills" that they should be using.
Re:Entrapment! Or, not... (Score:3, Insightful)
I don't think them placing bait cars in prime locations could be considered entrapment. IE, they're not encouraging law abiding citizens to steal the car. If they had an undercover cop at the scene trying to talk passers-by into helping him steal the car, that would be entrapment.
Re:IANAL (Score:3, Funny)
If an undercover cop tells you to do something or he'll blow your head off it's an absolute form of entrapment. This situation is rare, but not unheard of.
But if an undercover cop makes you an offer too good to refuse it's a much more grey area. Many normally law-abiding citizens may be tempted by these offers, and there have been some high profile cases thrown out because the cours ruled that a reasonable person would not be able to resist the bait. E.g., I seem to recall that John DeLorean was acquitted because of this - the pressure to save his company was so great that no reasonable person could avoid the quick money for moving a relatively small amount of drugs.
It's hard to imagine a situation where car theft is irresistable, but it's much harder to make blanket statements about victimless crimes.
Scary! (Score:4, Funny)
Cars can't talk.
Why don't they 'salt' a few 1982 Lotus Turbo Esprits? Don't those blow up when you break into them?
Great! (Score:3, Interesting)
Now thanks to the Wasington Post, I know there are a bunch of cars sitting unlocked, and all I need to do to steal them is bring some radio jamming equipment! Sweet!
Entrapment (Score:2)
The guy they arrested was arrested with burglary tools on his person. So quite obviously he did in fact have previous intent to commit, and enrapment won't be an issue.
I've got a better idea... (Score:2)
Instead of GPS trackers, the cars could be rigged to explode when the ignition was started. Of course in this case you need failsafes to make sure that nothing else will set off the bomb. You also need to worry about collateral damage and it'll get expensive after awhile...
...then again, it is government spending. And it will insure a low repeat offender count.
Re:I've got a better idea... (Score:2)
I live in DC.... (Score:2)
More danger to people... (Score:2, Interesting)
Also I suppose the thieves can just observer the car for a while. If no one uses it for 2 or 3 days then it's a given that's a bait. The cops might have to have people using the car in some realistic way.
d.
This is cool but... (Score:2)
It should take still photographs of his face with a hidden camera, while he's in the act.
Hell, the thing should have external hidden cameras, so that it can take pics of vandals.
If they wanted to, they could make this car a REAL pain for criminals.
Re:This is cool but... (Score:5, Funny)
N'Sync? (Score:3, Funny)
I think that'd violate the Constitutional restrictions on cruel and unusual punishments.
Ricochet wireless modems did it first (Score:2)
I can see their budget now (Score:2)
$1,600,000 for a few sports cars that can be driven around by officers and used as "bait".
"Yeah but look how many idiots we caught with the peice of junk we used last year"
Entrappment silliness (Score:3, Interesting)
Entrapment is my promising to send you pictures of hot chicks, then sending you pictures of little kids, then arresting you for having them. You have been persuaded or coerced into committing a crime, whether you'd have committed it yourself later or not.
Re:Entrappment silliness (Score:3, Informative)
Actually, in most case it is---you've intentionally taken the possessions of another person for your own use. In most US jurisdictiosn that is the definition of "theft". Not that anyone will set up roadblocks to catch you...
Also, if somehow the original owner tracks you down, even if the police don't consider it a crime, you can still be sued for "conversion", which is the act of taking another persons property for your own use (essentially, it's a fancy way of saying "theft", except that it implies no malicious wrongdoing).
Re:Entrappment silliness (Score:2)
A found wallet is likely lost and not abandoned, and a finder has an obligation of making a reasonable attempt to find the owner. Otherwise, you have theft. A parked car is likely neither lost nor abandoned, so anyone taking possession of the car would be committing theft.
saw this on TLC (Score:2)
Really fun to watch those stinkers learn they've walked into a trap! Lots of different reactions -- all amusing.
This was also the plot of a Knight Rider episode [knightrideronline.com].
It's been on "Caught on Video" too (Score:2)
A hidden alarm/alert and a locking door system couldn't cost more than $5k. I think they should put these in lots and lots of places. It might actually put a dent in the car theft business.
Re: (Score:2)
This isn't really a new thing.... (Score:5, Informative)
Technology vs. the underclass (Score:2)
Would it be stealing if... (Score:2)
Since this news is now out in the public, I'm sure the Washington DC police are already working on other secret plans for catching "the bad guy". Kinda like military technology documentaries (propaganda) that supposedly show the latest in military technology... fact is, they're showing the latest *declassified* information, which means they're already truly onto bigger and better things.
in the UK we just nick expensive cars (Score:2)
"why is it bad unlocking codes are all the same we need to get into the cars and we are the only ones with the key"-- rep
Porsche has a dealer code for the unlocking IR that you can clone and get into all 1998 models funny as fuck to watch peoples face when you open their car via your watch (-;
regards
john jones
Does it matter? (Score:2, Troll)
In the meantime people are getting locked up for writing software that the MPAA and/or RIAA (or Adobe) takes offense to. Or for smoking a plant. Or for consentual activities between adults.
The wireless GPS car is all very well and good, but taking thousands of dollars worth of property that is not yours is an offense that, IMO, should land someone in jail for a time on the order of decades, not days. But we all know exactly what will happen to those who are arrested.
-S
New device for the accessories market... (Score:2)
AutoTrapp (extra 'p' for a catchy name)
Along with a has-been or no-name actress and a paid audience with great clapping ability, you too can find out how you can get this remarkable device (which also cleans vinyl records) for,
Not $3000,
not $2000,
not even $1000,
but for 4 easy payments of $99.95 (plus $78.34 S/H)
Lojack (Score:3, Informative)
It's not a GPS-based system. It doesn't even use the cell phone network, relying on its own infrastructure. It's based on car units and direction-finding receivers in police cars. Each car unit has a transmitter and receiver, but doesn't normally transmit. The unit constantly listens for a message on an FM broadcast station subcarrier. On receipt of the proper message, the unit starts transmitting the "I'm stolen" signal, which is received by receivers in police cars. The signal doesn't contain any positional information; somebody has to do the direction-finding job the hard way.
Lojack covers major metropolitan areas in about a dozen states. It requires cooperation from the local cops, so it takes a major marketing and negotiation effort to get it into a city.
Only the GPS part is new (Score:3, Interesting)
Doing this yourself... (Score:4, Interesting)
You can do something nearly simliar with your own car if you want to pay the monthly service charges on CDPD or a similar packet data network. Basically grab a CDPD modem that is capable of telemetry. Tie a NEMA capable GPS receiver to it. When you need to know where your car is telnet to the CDPD modem on a particular port and watch the NEMA stream. Heck, redirect it to something like Delorme AAA Map'n'Go and watch your car drive down the road. I imagine it would be a simple exercise to direct the police to your vehicle.
Now, this working as an effective recovery device depends on the car being able to acquire a GPS signal and maintain it, ability to communicate on the CDPD network, and finding out your car is stolen before it is stripped or the battery is disconnected.
Kill car thieves (Score:3, Insightful)
I have no mercy for those assholes.
Re:Wait a minute... (Score:5, Funny)
"Holy cow, look at all the cars people lost in this parking lot!"
--Scott
Not necessarily (Score:2)
If you read the article:
He does not anticipate any successful challenges from defense attorneys that the tactic is entrapment.
"Entrapment is where the government plants the seed of a crime in the mind of individual who would not otherwise be criminally inclined," Trodden said. " . . . We don't want that. But if we had somebody who was out there, ready to steal something . . . it's good police work."
BTW, Jose doesn't look happy in his booking photo.
Re:Wait a minute... (Score:2)
EFGearman
Re: (Score:2)
No (Score:2)
Re:Wait a minute... (Score:2)
As long as the car looked and "behaved" exactly like the other cars in the area, the police are off the "entrapment" hook BS. I.e., locked up no keys in ignition, parked normally... etc.
Re:Wait a minute... (Score:2)
As for leaving something out on the sidewalk, I suspect there are laws about abandoned property that would apply (since someone could pick it up with the intent to turn it in/return it). I don't see how someone could get into someone else's car and drive off with the same intentions.....
Entrapment (Score:2)
Not necessarily. At least in most jurisdictions, "Entrapment" is law enforcement officers inducing or encouraging a person to commit a crime when the potential criminal wasn't inclined to commit the crime. Like many crimes, intent is important.
For example, if the cops are doing a drug sting, in which an undercover agent is selling drugs on the street, if a customer merely comes up and buys drugs, it's usually not entrapment, since the guy would've bought the drugs if the seller wasn't a narc. But if the agent pressures the buyer if the buyer wasn't already motivated to buy drugs, then it probably is.
In this case, it would be argued that the person stealing the car was already inclined to steal a car, so there would be no entrapment.
But yes, there is a lot of grey area here.
(No, I'm not a lawyer)
No Entrapment (Score:2)
A easy example of entrapment in a sting is classic prostitution sting. If the police woman offers "The John" money for sex that is entraping. However if the police woman implies that she is there as a prostitute and "The John" comes forward and offers money for sex that isn't entrapment.
Leaving a car out on the street to see who will steal it is a great way to setup a clean sting. As long as the police never suggest that they want someone to steal the car then the car is stolen by a person of their own modivation.
Re:No Entrapment (Score:2)
Haha. No one should ever fall for this, I mean, if some woman is offering you money for sex you should assume either she's a cop or that you have died and that Heaven is just like earth, except for all the assumptions about how the world works are in your favor....
Re:Wait a minute... (Score:2)
Simply finding something is one thing. Doing work to take something else is completely different.
Re:Wait a minute... (Score:2)
Bascially (keep in mind that IANAL) entrapment defences say that the accused would not have commited the crime if the pollice officer did not urge him to do so. This is definately not extrapment. The car is sitting there, just as other cars are. If someone steals it, they're going to get caught.
This is going to be a great technology to protect your car fron theft and deter would-be criminals from doing so.
Kudos for technology in law enforcement (Score:2)
Re:Kudos for technology in law enforcement (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Kudos for technology in law enforcement (Score:5, Insightful)
Well I certainly think I'm all for this type of law enforcement, but when I begin to contemplate the future of these types of stings, I must admit that it scares me. I saw an example of this type of car used for an arrest on the discovery channel. They had two girls pull over to the side of the road and get out of the car and start yelling at one another about how girl 1 is just going to "leave his car here and he can come pick it up himself".. then she makes a big show of throwing the keys into the car and slamming the door (presumably without locking the doors) and then gets into her friend's car and off they drive. It's important to mention that before they did this big show, an undercover police officer drove around and found someone he thought looked like an individual who would steal a car (he scoped out a potential target) then they did the act directly in front of this person.
Now I agree with the fact that stealing a car is stealing a car, but this seems to me to be quite a bit like monitoring for thought crime. Present a situation to an individual that is not likely to ever happen, then see if that individual is willing to break the law under these special circumstances. It is easy to see them bring it a step further. Lets say they decide to start catching muggers by having a guy walk out into the street and shout "Wow, I can't believe the ATM just let me withdraw $10,000!!!".
Okay I still agree, a mugging is a mugging. Maybe now that they're catching all of the muggers and the car thieves, they decide to start trying to catch people who are willing to traffic drugs. They start going door to door with a small brown package and offer $10,000 to a person if he'll just deliver the small brown package to an address downtown. Suddenly the police are presenting hypothetical situations that could never exist in reality, just to see if people are willing to break the law in these extreme circumstances. Suddenly the police can transform ANYONE into a criminal, just by finding the threshold of risk vs. reward for that individual.
I would think leaving one of these cars in a high crime area and waiting for them to get stolen is a noble thing. But it scares me when they begin to make false senario's and they target people who fit the profile of a car thief. It seems to me that they are creating crime with these hypothetical situations, then arresting people for having the potential to do wrong if an impossible situation were to occur. Leaving a locked car to be stolen is perfectly acceptable, but creating a situation that is too good to be true frightens me..
Techno wanking (Score:2)
Re:Fishing for dumbass... (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Fishing for dumbass... (Score:3, Interesting)
Then you grab their address books and check out their phone logs and see who they associate with...
Re:Fishing for dumbass... (Score:2, Funny)
Whoops! You misspelled "hours" in your comment.
Re:Fishing for dumbass... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Fishing for dumbass... (Score:4, Insightful)
What, you think that each thief steals one car and then retires?
What they're doing here makes it less likely that your car will be stolen. If your car is the only one on the street, and someone wants to steal a car, there's a 100% chance that it'll be yours, and some <100% chance that it'll be recovered.
On the other hand, if this trap car is also on the streets, then there's only a 50% chance yours will be selected for theft. And there's a 100% chance the thief will be caught before he comes back to steal your car.
You should be on your knees thanking the Arlington police for this.
(Personally, I don't like it, because I believe that car theft improves urban quality-of-life by driving up the cost of car ownership, but that's neither here nor there for this discussion.)
Re:Now I suppose..... (Score:2)
I wonder what it would take to entrap you? We all have our limits. I bet it would be possible to devise a situation in which you would knowingly break the law. Where do you draw the line?
Re:Now I suppose..... (Score:2, Informative)
So lets do a little review:
1) They are using a car from the most stolen list.
2) The electronics are OBVIOUSLY not visible.
3) It is doctored with trash, etc. To make it look normal to the area.
So Joe Blow is walking through the parking lot, and thinks to himself...DAMN! That looks like one regular car! Now, I'm not one who would ever think of stealing a car.... I mean the keys aren't even left in the ignition, but I just can't help myself. The seeds are planted....can't control self...MUST....STEAL...CAR!
Yep, must be entrapment.
Re:Now I suppose..... (Score:2)
Well of course I don't know much about you, but I think many educated people who consider themselves law-abiding would be tempted by a "white-collar fraud" where the rewards are big and the chances of getting caught very small.
Re:Now I suppose..... (Score:2)
Re:Isn't this illegal? (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Isn't this illegal? (Score:2)
To the average law abiding person, it's just a car, nothing special. It's an average Accord/Camry/whatever, something you see a thousand times a day. Even if the doors were unlocked, so what? It's not like there's a neon light flashing above the car saying "I'm unlocked", you have to take a close look into the car to see. Most people don't look into every car they walk by.
This is a far cry from a undercover cop walking up to your car and offering to give you drugs or a blowjob for some money. In that case, the police are actively encouraging you to do a crime.
Re:Isn't this illegal? (Score:4, Insightful)
Hardly true. To my thinking it doesn't matter if the door was unlocked. When was the last time you went over to some random car and tested the door to see if it was unlocked. I can say I've *never* done that to a car I or someone I was with didn't own. To my way of thinking, you could leave a ferrari, doors open, windows down, keys in the ignition, cash 3 inches deep on the floor and the Hope diamond sitting on the passenger seat and you're *still* a thief if you steal it and it's *still* not entrapment if you do. No one's encouraging you to steal that several million dollar pile of someone else's property. You would have been quite willing to do it on your own. Now if a police officer offered to pay you to steal the car for him, or suggested you should for your own benefit, that's entrapment. If its entirely of your own volition, enjoy the cell.
Re:Death Wish (Score:3, Informative)
The bait described in the article, on the other hand, is 100% correct and clean. I wish "real" cars had that too.
Re:Death Wish (Score:2)
In this case, it's more like the crooked Quickie-Mart mart employee walking up to random 16 year old and trying to sell her some cigarettes and then getting busted.
Re:Death Wish (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:All well and good, but (Score:2)
Plus, in the eyes of the law, even for thieves; killing isn't considered to good for them; it's too bad for you- you're going DOWN.
Or when the thief doesn't like whiskey and gives it to his sister...
Re:Is it REALLY legal? (Score:2)
Re:footing the bill (Score:2, Funny)
Re:footing the bill (Score:5, Insightful)
All your other exmaples of what you want the cops doing are hard to lump together with car theft. Car theft is a crime that results in a loss to its victim. Drug use and prostitution are somewhat victimless crimes. If you don't have problem with people stealing cars, maybe someone should steal your car? Gun ownership isn't a crime outright, so I don't know where you came up with that one.
How the fuck are you supposed to "protect the citizens" if you can't "hunt down the criminals"?
Re:footing the bill (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:footing the bill (Score:5, Insightful)
What's the point? There are a certain number of people who want to steal cars. Given the choice between: 1) Criminal steal bait car, gets caught nearly 100% of the time and is off the streets for at least a short time and 2) Criminal steals my car (or my friends car, or my parents car), gets away nearly 100% of the time, and is able to steal another car tomorrow. I'd prefer the bait car, thanks.
Prostitution and drug dealing is arguably different. If the law and the police weren't involved, everyone involved would be willing to allow the action (the sale of sex/drugs) to occur. Car theft is different. As the owner of the car, I never want someone to steal my car. There are no sane arguments for why car theft is good. Catching someone who steals cars is good. These people are predators who know that they are breaking the law and know that they are depriving another human being of their physical property.
Law enforcement is supposed to product the law-abiding. Protect them from what? Criminals. Catching the criminals before they steal from the law-abiding seems like effective, pro-active protection to me.
I for one hope police use bait like this in more cases, I know too many people who have had car windows smashed and car stereos stolen. I know too many people who have had apartments broken into.
Re:footing the bill (Score:3, Interesting)
It is true that by using this car-bait technique the police will effectively rid the cities of criminals (at least car thieves, but there is no reason this principle could not be used to catch other criminals, such as gamblers and pedophiles). In this way, we achieve the ultimate protection. As one reply said, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Likewise, the best defense is a good offense, and we should nip these kinds of activities in the bud.
I do no longer mind funding for as many of these sneaky cars as is necessary to finally clean up the streets of America. My one request is that they be utilized only in areas which have a surplus of parking, and that they not be driven during rush hours. Traffic affects us all in more ways than one.
Re:footing the bill (Score:2)
The theft of our "dummy" car is a victimless crime. No one suffers when it is stolen. Not all "criminals" cause damage to "innocents".
I pay the police through my tax dollars because they are a reasonably strong deterrant to criminals who would otherwise harm me. I don't pay them to encourage a crime so they can swoop in and bust (and make $$$ from) the perps.
This behavior is disgusting.