Encryption For All Sponsored by German Govt. 208
fiffilinus writes: "The German Ministry of Economics uses the CeBIT computer fair as a forum to propagate its GnuPP (Gnu Privacy Project -- I know, it is *not* GPG, but GPG is part of the package) encryption package to the public, giving away CD-roms with the package. The CeBIT press release can be found here. The download for those who can't make it to CeBIT is here. The package is available in English too, but the page itself has to be put through the fish, as usual. Finally a government that moves in the right direction ..."
Remember... (Score:2)
WATCH OUT (Score:1, Troll)
Re:WATCH OUT (Score:2)
Of course, by giving you the source they've also given you the opportunity to check for backdoors.
Re:WATCH OUT (Score:1)
Re:WATCH OUT (Score:1)
There will probably be no back door... (Score:1)
With the whole Echelon thing going on (and the EU has officially expressed it's concern about this. For example it is very concerned that the US government "leaks" sensitive info to corps in order to give them a competitive edge.)
So in this case it seems that the european governments has a common interest with the tin foil hat community.
There is really no reason to be paranoid, and it will probably boost encryption and security concerns in european corporations, when governments actually endorse it.
Do not underestimate the power of this! It is clearly a Good Thing (tm)
And if strong encryption is standard in Europa, the US will follow sooner or later...
I work for a government agency in a small european country, and I for one welcomes this. It will make my daily evangelization a lot easier.
USA behind the times ... again (Score:2, Interesting)
What is wrong with this picture?
Re:USA behind the times ... again (Score:1)
Re:USA behind the times ... again (Score:1)
Re:USA behind the times ... again (Score:1)
Sheesh. The net is a global place.
But, on to your comment. While the US government does have some nationalists as rabid as what the hard core Nazi's were, they however don't have the control or the leadership that the aforementioned group did.
Does the US have the possibility of makeing some of the same mistakes as Germany did under the nazi's? Perhaps. But, I for one thing that the people of the United states would take action long before anything truely horrific happened.
Re:USA behind the times ... again (Score:1)
Good form them.
Re:USA behind the times ... again (Score:2)
The difference in the media industry between the US and Germany is ZIP, ZILCH NADA... Global corporatization took care of any differences that did exist!!!
Globalism is good, but global corporatization is not so good!!!
Re:USA behind the times ... again (Score:2)
I have two words for you: Springer Verlag.
Another poster already mentioned Bertelsmann and Leo Kirch, but those two are I believe not as political as Springer. Springer is bad, especially since they couple yellow journalism with a high popular appeal (Bild Zeitung) with a definite right-wing political agenda. They used be quite extreme, I'd say they're merely conservative now.
I am not 100% sure though. Any German readers who can enlighten us?
MartRe:USA behind the times ... again (Score:2)
Re:USA behind the times ... again (Score:1)
Re:USA behind the times ... again (Score:2)
Re:USA behind the times ... again (Score:1)
Because you aren't clever enough to type 'apt-get install gnupg', I suppose.
Gnu Privacy Guard is readily available in the USA.
Re:USA behind the times ... again (Score:1)
However ironic, that was irrelevant. The point the original poster was trying to make, I believe, is in Germany they have government-sanctioned encryption being distributed to the masses. In the U.S. we still have quirky export regulations, we have the government trying to pass various limiting laws (backdoors, key escrow, etc.), and we have no widely-available, widely-used encryption software, let alone coming from the government itself.
(By widely-available, widely-used I mean something available to and used by the masses; Im sure all us Linux users MD5 our passwords and use SSH, but we make up, what, 1% of the countrys population?)
The Problem is... (Score:1)
Yah, but this is the German govt. (Score:1)
I'm sure if the gubmint wants to crack down on their radical right (aka neo-nazis) or outlawed religious organizations (aka COS) they won't find the nature of the encryption employed by those organizations a major problem in prosecuting the lawbreakers.
I'm not saying they don't have their own bunch of control freaks in their gubmint over there, but they also have a certain amount of recent history in favor of encryption - simply to prevent other governments from spying on their citizens (especially their corporate citizens) Face it, they recognize they have a lot to lose from "corporate espionage" if it makes German corps less competitive.
Re:The Problem is... (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:The Problem is... (Score:2, Interesting)
I actually am serious about the following. I've seen more people here express the same sentiment. Do you people really not trust government in general that much? I know I don't trust the American goverment either, but here in Europe we don't have the feeling we need something like a right to bear arms to defend ourselves from the government. The government still consists of people. People we choose, and people who work for us, the people. Sure, politicians are politicians, no matter where they are, but there are enough checks and balances that I don't think anyone in Europe seriously thinks the government is working more for its own good, rather than for that of the people it's serving.
Yet from what I observe, there are very few people anywhere in the world who believe the government of the USA to do the same.
Now I wonder... Does this make people believe that Europeans are naive, that our governments are just as bad? Or do you actually trust the American government after all? (And if not, doesn't that say something very significant about that government?) Or did you never realize a government can actually work for the good of the people, providing them security not only from itself, but also from other governments which aren't to be trusted as much (Echelon, Carnivore,
I'm trying to ask this as non-offensively as possible, while still pointing to where I think the differences can be found. If you are offended, please, realize that was not the intent of this post. I simply really wonder about how you people from across the pond look at trusting both your own government and other governments.
Re:The Problem is... (Score:1)
But MOST citizens tolerate this because they just don't want to know the truth. Whatever else is the case, the Shitty Foreign Policies mean that back in the heartland of the good ole US of A, things are rosy and fluffy and happy. And as long as the SFP's keep it that way, the government can do just about anything it wants to. That is the "WHY" in your general US citizen's double-think. "My government lies to me." - "My government is looking out for me."
Now, having said all that. I think the German government is on the Up and Up. I don't, personally, think that every government in the world is as corrupt as the USA's.
John Q. Americano
Re:The Problem is... (Score:2)
>>but there are enough checks and balances that I don't think anyone in Europe seriously thinks the government is working more for its own good, rather than for that of the people it's serving.
You are kidding right?
Have you looked at the laundered money going through the individual political parties in Germany and France? For example stats in Germany (Speigel TV March 17, 2002) say that there are officially 220 corruption cases. Think about it OFFICIAL CORRUPTION SCANDALS!!! Corruption in the sense of faking, changing, laundering, etc!!!
Have you see how the German government for work faked the numbers to make it look like the government was actually doing something?
Have you heard of the move by the German government to not consider people over 50 unemployed but in pre-retirement? This way the the unemployment numbers would look better...
Did you see the how Volkswagon and Mercedes would not sell or service their own cars not bought in Germany? And the government did NOTHING! Why corruption...
Sorry, but European governments do NOT always look in the best interest of the people. I DO LIKE the skepticism bred into you living in Canada and the US.
But I do see hope in Mario Monti.. He is the "DOJ" of Europe and HE IS changing things for the better. He is slapping fines and changing business practices, even when the governments are not HAPPY!!!
Re:Think of this : (Score:2)
Back to the issue, No....
Europeans tend to be more corrupt than North American's... Seriously!
It is partially because of the social system which is a system of one party taking advantage of the other. For example in Europe you pay a ton of tax, people hide their money left right and center. In North America people tend to be pretty honest about taxes. Ok North Americans hide a few cents here and there, but nobody does outright tax evasion.
As an example of scandal. I lived in France and people cheated on their taxes and entered lower amounts than was written on their income slips. Think about it. The government can check that SO easy and yet they cheat. And once when at a dentist the guy asked cash or invoice? I said what is the difference? Cash you get better service and we send the money to a tax haven. Invoice you get ok service. That is corruption!
Or consider the problem of robbery in the UK? People buy and sell stolen goods and they think it is ok so long as the robbery was from a company.
Or consider how Germans will eat all day at an all you can eat bar. Notice that they do not exist much in Germany? There is a reason. My cousin starved himself for two days so that he could sit all day at an all you can eat bar. That was when companies tried all you can eats for a short time.
My point is that Europeans have a funny attitude to "good" behaviour. They tend to push the line and do not do what is accepted behaviour. This is also why North Americans tend to find Europeans rude.
Not to say that North American's are perfect, they tend to be too prude and extreme in things (drinking in public, anti-smoking and fat free anything). But that is a topic for another day.
Re:The Problem is... (Score:3, Interesting)
Also another big thumbs up to germany from going from nazisim in WW2 to where they are today.
why is everyone so god damn paranoid, if you guys hit the ol' pipe without me I am gonna be pissed
fishy translations (Score:2)
Isn't Brazil another goverment that has been known to enbrace open source? However embracing open source, and pushing open source warez to your population is another. This sets a new presedence in that regard.
I think here in the USA, the goverment would rather do the oposite. Like the key escro stuff a few years ago, and now the DMCA.
Re:fishy translations (Score:1)
Since everyone pirates windoze/office/corel/games freely, there is no (monetary) incentive to go OSS.
OSS is widely used in state universities and some schools too, thanks to some OSS martyrs we have
slashdotted allready (Score:1, Redundant)
At the CeBIT the Federal German Ministry of Economics distributes for free the mail encryption program GnuPP 1.1 complete with manual. The mail roboter Adele shall provide a lead-in to the issue by practising the krypto mail communication together with the user.
The Federal German Ministry of Economics [www.bmwi.de] is supporting the open source project GnuPP [gnupp.org] (GNU [gnu.org] Privacy Project) since the year 2000. With that the Ministry wants to provide the development of a cryptography infrastructure that does not depend on manufacturers, that is safe and corresponds to international standards. It would not be recommended to use standard software in security sensitive areas and the Ministry explicitly warns to do so in its press release [sicherheit...nternet.de]. Only the open source principle allows the user to look at the complete programming of a software, and that means security to the greatest extent.
Apart from the software [gnupp.org] the package of the Ministry contains a two-piece manual that is completely new written and designed. With the help of this manual even laypersons shall be able to clear the first hurdle of e-mail encryption. And something else is new: "Adele" (adele@gnupp.org), an exercise roboter for practising the procedure of encryption and decryption as often as the entry-level user will need it. Adele reacts to sent-in public keys and encrypted e-mails, sends its own public key, and answers to encrypted and decrypted incoming e-mails. In this way a dialog between correspondence partners is formed so that entry-level users can practise transactions of e-mail encryption "like in real life" and may gain confidence in the safety of this procedure.
At the CeBIT one can get the GnuPP package (manual with CD-ROM) for free at the stands of the Federal German Ministry of Economics. During the entire fair the Ministry also provides presentations and advisory service for free.
For background informations and details on the fair please surf tecCHANNEL.DE and read our big CeBIT Special [tecchannel.de] (German only, please bear with us). Moreover we have compiled for you all CeBIT news in category-specific news channels [tecchannel.de]. (jlu/bmu)
Federal German Ministry of Economics: pavilion11, stand D25
Pavillon D / 11, stands 76 and 5
Re:slashdotted allready (Score:2)
Cool! This could make it very easy and comfortable for a beginner to get the hang of using encryption. It might be inconvenient or embarrassing for some to send many test messages to friends, so this would make it easy (even fun?) This could also help new users get acquainted with with the idea of key servers.
This is an excellent idea, folks
Security Concerns (Echelon) & Self-Promotion (Score:4, Insightful)
Which makes me think - no wonder France and Germany have their own Linux distributions and the U.K. doesn't! A grain of security concerns, a grain of national pride, and perhaps a grain of software nationalism, etc...
Get the funny part of the press release (I think they kind of screwed up the translation):
---------
...is safe and corresponds to international standards. It would not be recommended (sic!) to use standard software in security sensitive areas and the Ministry explicitly warns to do so in its press release.
---------
And of course they can't push MS products at CeBIT, it wouldn't help them in any way. But they had to do something and Linux has always made a good means for low-cost self promotion
Software Patents? (Score:3, Interesting)
Hmmm... Germany is looking better and better... (Score:5, Interesting)
What is the catch? What makes Germany less or more desireable for people who are concerned about their rights as they relate to technology, privacy, or otherwise?
I know there are some english speaking Germans reading
Re:Hmmm... Germany is looking better and better... (Score:3, Insightful)
It seems the bigger a mistake is, the greater an opportunity there is to grow and learn from that mistake.
Re:Hmmm... Germany is looking better and better... (Score:3, Informative)
i think germania realized that in order to prevent anything resembling what happened with Hitler and the Nazis, the citizens must be free to think as they want, must be able to go on with their lives with the privacy and freedom that all humans deserve.
Ironically, you are free to think anything you want -- except if it has to do with Nazism. The Nazi party is banned in Germany. Understandable given the history, but German is hardly the home of free thinkers.
Re:Hmmm... Germany is looking better and better... (Score:3, Informative)
Oh, and scince you seem to worry, there are still more than enough nazis aroung here, thank you. They still manage to kill a foreigner or to destroy a jewish cemetary once month or so. Of course, the good times of the early nineties are over, where nazis sieged a house inhabited mostly by vietnamese guest-workers for three days in Rostock, having fun with molotow-cocktails, applauded by their Volksgenossen, protected by the police, and supported by the free press.
It's not as if nazis weren't still a real problem in germany, you know.
Re:Hmmm... Germany is looking better and better... (Score:2)
They still manage to kill a foreigner or to destroy a jewish cemetary once month or so.
No one says that should be legal. However actions should be illegal. It's generally a mistake to make thoughts illegal. The US has its share of Nazis as well, but they are just laughed at rather than banned. Guess what would happen if they were suddenly banned? Right -- they would get power from the negative attention, and suddenly would become the "cool thing" for the amateur anarchists.
Bible belt book bonfires, anyone? (Score:1)
Heh, "cool thing" like teaching of evolution in schools or offering of evolutionary literature in libraries in certain Southern US states has become, I could imagine. Or showing tits in telly anywhere in the land of the "free".
Re:Hmmm... Germany is looking better and better... (Score:1)
And quite impossible. I can think anything thing I want without you ever knowing what I was thinking about. Though cannot be banned, restriced, or made illegal. Speech, writing, etc., are only means of sharing our thoughts and it is that which becomes restricted.
There is no right more basic, and inalienable and though of free though. Why? Cause there is no possible way, short of brain-washing, to prevent a person from thinking about any giving topic, idea, etc.. A government might try to prevent certain ideals, but in reality, they will not succede.
What's more frightening is the notion that some people actually beleive that any person or govenment could restrict such activity. Have we, as a human race, become that submissive to our leaders?
Re:Hmmm... Germany is looking better and better... (Score:1)
Why is it that we can't edit our own posts? (or can we and I am to retarded to figure out how?)
Re:Hmmm... Germany is looking better and better... (Score:2)
[...]the free press.
Everything else you said was true. But some protesters in Rostock were arrested by the police. They were not protected. In fact the police chief stepped back from office because the police had not acted adaequately. (Which is understandable, they were communist trained people's police, all of this happened only two years after the wall came down).
The free press was shocked and a mass movement with big numbers of demonstrators marched thru every major city in Germany, carrying candles in their hands. "Lichtermärsche"
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Hmmm... Germany is looking better and better... (Score:1, Flamebait)
What makes Germany less or more desireable for people who are concerned about their rights as they relate to technology, privacy, or otherwise?
For what it's worth, when I visited some relatives in Germany about 8 years ago (?), my uncle mentioned a couple of laws that I found absolutely astounding. First, it was illegal to leave your car (and house? Can't remember) unlocked for any period of time. If you are making multiple trips, you are required to lock the car between each trip. That's just the law (don't know if it was local or what).
I was also amazed to learn that you have to get permission from the government in order to start a business. You see, they feel that too much competition in a particular area is bad for those local businesses, so they restrict how many of a particular business type can be in an area. After all, they can't have a business go bankrupt! That might cause job loss (never mind the inefficiency that it breeds).
I've been to Europe a couple of times in a number of countries. There is no question that Europe is a great place to visit, but there's no way I would ever live there. They have absolutely no concept of freedom.
The US takes a lot of flack, but there's no doubt the US is the most free country in the world. Not to mention that it has by far the best highway system in the world. :) Europe SUCKS when it comes to having sufficient road signs to mark the highways. You really get spoiled in the US with 3 signs before every exit.
Re:Hmmm... Germany is looking better and better... (Score:1)
Saying that you need permission to start a business is way, [i]way[/i] overstating it; the local urban plan doesn't allow you to put your fast-food restaurant at a certain spot - well, just put it somewhere else. And for most business activities, there's no such concerns at all. You can start your software enterprise wherever you want.
/Janne
Re:Hmmm... Germany is looking better and better... (Score:1)
Oh, so that must be why for example the Netherlands have legalized euthanasia, legalized softdrugs, legalized abortion, etc, etc. (And the lowest rates of problems because of it anywhere in the world.) There's freedom and freedom, you know. Personally I'd prefer living in a country where citizens are trusted with freedom to make their own choices, rather than living in a country where freedom consists of being allowed to have the feeling you can defend yourself from your government.
A silly law like being forced to lock your car doesn't change that. As for the protectionism of small businesses - a lot has changed with the European Union solidifying. I think you're a wee bit too hasty with judging and entire continent based on a very narrow view you had a long time ago.
Re:Hmmm... Germany is looking better and better... (Score:2)
legalized euthanasia
Which is a bad idea, because it corrupts the medical community. If you want to commit suicide, go ahead and do it, but don't corrupt MY medical care.
legalized softdrugs
Extremely arguable as to whether the produces more freedom from the non-drug users who have to deal with the druggies.
legalized abortion
That doesn't produce all that much freedom for the child, now does it? If a country had a law that said you could terminate any child under five years old at the parent's discretion, would that make that country have more "freedom"?
Re:Hmmm... Germany is looking better and better... (Score:1)
nothing to harmfull, neither cause side effects too much worse than alcohol, none are as addictive as alcohol(us is littered with drunks more than any other country)
Legalized Abortion- woman's right to choose. once a baby is living, still in the womb its part of the mother... plus in case you haven't noticed we have a fucking population problem, who are you to tell a mother she has to keep a kid she didn't want/can't afford/will probably abuse. Think of the kid, what type of life would the kid have...Don't give me that "you don't know what that kid is going to be" cause we all know what happens...especially to teen parents...don't forget that, you can preech birth control/absenece all you fucking want but teenagers are not going to listen, you remeber being a teen right??? Some might, but there will always be teenagers having unprotected sex, I do not agree with it, but it is futile to try, not to mention in most cases harrassing/aggravating...
Legalized Euthinasia - again we have a population problem, letting people who are hopelessly ill and WANT TO DIE kill themselves would help.
Re:Hmmm... Germany is looking better and better... (Score:2)
Well, you've managed to master all the cliches.
Legalized Abortion- woman's right to choose.
There is no "right to kill your children", as much as certain people want you to believe.
plus in case you haven't noticed we have a fucking population problem,
Uh, no we don't. And if you haven't noticed, birth rates are going down. It's estimated the world population will stabilize around 2050 or 2100.
who are you to tell a mother she has to keep a kid she didn't want/can't afford/will probably abuse.
Who are you to tell parents that they can't kill their two year old because it costs too much money?
If they don't want the kid, put it up for adoption. But it's pretty arrogant of you to presume to decide which children are better off dead.
don't forget that, you can preech birth control/absenece all you fucking want but teenagers are not going to listen, you remeber being a teen right???
It's irrelevent whether they listen or not. That's like saying, "You can preach all you want that teenagers aren't supposed to commit burglaries, but they're not going to listen". That doesn't mean we still don't put them in jail. Just like it's not the child's fault if a teenager gets pregnant. If she gets pregnant, she has the birth. A human life is worth more than her convenience.
again we have a population problem, letting people who are hopelessly ill and WANT TO DIE kill themselves would help.
THERE IS NO LAW AGAINST SUICIDE. Let me repeat that: THERE IS NO LAW AGAINST SUICIDE. However, it's a HUGE mistake to give doctors a conflict of interest between saving lives and taking lives, particularly when we already have pressures to pull the plug in cases of organ donation.
Re:Hmmm... Germany is looking better and better... (Score:2)
Children BREATHE.
They don't a minute before they are born. Should abortions be allowed 1 minute before they are born?
There are other countries, would you mind every Chinese eat an egg for breakfast every morning?
It's called supply and demand. If there is a demand for eggs that exceed supply, prices rise. People eat them who can afford them.
Who talks about two year olds?
Please read the context.
You are not a woman and You never were pregnant.
Totally irrelevent. I don't have to be a black person or a slave owner to know slavery is wrong.
It is basically irrelevant for WOMEN if you listen, think or care.
For now, you are right, just as it was irrelevent from someone to believe slavery was wrong in the 17th century. That doesn't mean slavery was right, however.
They do with their body as they see fit.
No, they can't. Once they get pregnant, the body is jointly owned by the mother and child. That is simply biology. Since reproduction requires a host body, therefore, there is a natural right to the host body once pregnancy takes place.
Some people need assistance in commiting suicide. They need help, not necessarily on doctors.
Fine, if people want to create a completely different institution other than medical institutions for assisted suicide, I would be in favor. But the debate is never couched in those terms.
Re:Hmmm... Germany is looking better and better... (Score:2)
All that matters to them is that when two cells come together suddenly you have a real, live, 100% human being, because they read it in some book somewhere and their god told them to.
Incidently, I'm an agnostic. Religion has nothing to do with this issue, although people (on both sides, such as yourself) use religion as a weapon.
I believe simply because it is the Truth. Life begins at conception, because it can begin no where else. Anywhere else is totally arbitrary. (And no, you can't use cognition as a measurement, because cognition does not begin at birth).
Re:Hmmm... Germany is looking better and better... (Score:2)
But why at conception? Are the cells that join together to create this life at that point not alive until then?
Because that's where you get a unique human with potential to grow into a cognitively unique individual, which is why a sperm cell dying is not an "abortion".
You offer an explanation based on "Truth" while saying anything else is arbitrary, yet you offer no evidence of why your Truth is not arbitrary itself.
Because mine is the "least arbibitary". When is a cell cluster "self sustaining"? Should morality depend on technology? And what does "self sustaining" mean? Able to feed itself?
And yes, I admit I use religion as a weapon against the people who argue based on religion,
But you're the only one who's mentioned religion. Whoever brings up first is the one who has sacrificed logic in the argument.
Like I said, this is a difference of opinion that is really not resolvable.
One could have said that about slavery back in the 1700s. "You and I are just going to have to disagree on whether black people are really human or not. If you don't like slavery, that's fine, don't own slaves. But don't presume to tell me how I should think".
Re:Hmmm... Germany is looking better and better... (Score:2)
On the topic of abortion, it's a woman's right to make her own decision. Not some random slashdotter/religious nut/passerby's decision, her own. If you believe it's a bad and immoral thing, avoid doing so yourself. Just because it's legal doesn't mean you _have_ to do it.
On the topic of slavery, it's a person's right to make their own decision. Not some random person's decision, their own. If you believe it's a bad and immoral thing, avoid doing so yourself. Just because it's legal doesn't mean you _have_ to own slaves.
If you think you'd go to hell for doing it, don't; if you think somebody else will go to hell for doing it, would you please just let them make that decision themselves?!
Religion is totally irrelevent to the question of abortion.
A common reason for requiring an abortion is as a result of rape.
While I sympathize with the emotional trauma of a rape victim, it's not the child's fault that it was created through a violent act. There is clearly no easy answer to this, but I don't think the answer is killing the child.
Adoption.
Liberty (Score:3, Interesting)
That being said, sometimes a bit of regulation is a good thing. If the gov't makes rules to force businesses to prove their product work and deliver what the commercial says, is that an infringement of liberty? Right now, you can buy a $5 blender at kmart that will work - once. The stronger consumer rights in (parts of?) Europe mandates warranties that keep such scams off the market. Things cost a bit more, but they appear to be working better and for longer than the stash I bought when I lived in the States.
Basically, more liberty for the consumer, less for the business. I believe that businesses that abuse their liberties should have those taken away, just like what happens when the citizens behave irresponsibly.
Re:Liberty (Score:1)
In a word, bullshit.
Not only will you not find any such blender at Kmart but the GSA publishes a manual that would easily get your satisfication and money back [gsa.gov] in such a case. If your getting poor quality purchases you need to RTFM about being a intellegent consumer. No government can save you from your own stupidity. Just call your local and state consumer protection offices and stop acting like a victim.
Oh the flamebait...
What if... (Score:2)
That's not my definition of consumer freedom.
Re:What if... (Score:2)
No, he said it would cost more than $5 in Europe, but would work better.
My point was that in the US I have options. I can choose to spend little for disposable items, or I can spend more for durable items. In Europe I'd be screwed and would not be able to afford the luxury of a blender.
Re:Hmmm... Germany is looking better and better... (Score:1)
From what I've read in my various german car enthusasiast magazines (and this was from awhile ago, so I may be mistaken, anyone with actual knowledge confirm/deny?), the engineers working make a point to make the highways more driver friendly[0] (ie: no decreasing radius turns, all roads above ~50 Kph are divided). But then again, I live in PA where you're lucky if a curve on a road is on-camber (let alone wide enough for two cars (this doesn't include the oil-tanker SUVs)). Ah but that's my rant...
[0] - And by driver I mean someone who enjoys 'spirited' driving, not your typical 'soccer mom' driver.
Re:Hmmm... Germany is looking better and better... (Score:3, Informative)
I live in Germany and I must say that these laws are something like US sex laws [everything2.com], laws that maybe really exist but nobody cares about them.
I've been to Europe a couple of times in a number of countries. There is no question that Europe is a great place to visit, but there's no way I would ever live there. They have absolutely no concept of freedom.
People get much more freedom in most european countries. Look at the Human Freedom Index [huppi.com] by the UN. Other Source here. [everything2.com]
Not to mention that it has by far the best highway system in the world.
Never heard about the German Autobahn ? The german highway system where you can drive your car without a speed limit ?
Re:Hmmm... Germany is looking better and better... (Score:2)
People get much more freedom in most european countries. Look at the Human Freedom Index [huppi.com] by the UN. Other Source here.
The UN is the last organization I would use to measure my freedom. That report is so overly simplistic as to be laughable. For example, they seem to think that fewer government demonstrations is better -- when the exact opposite is probably closer to the truth (how many demonstrations do you think they have in Iraq)?
The german highway system where you can drive your car without a speed limit ?
That's the one positive, but I was mostly referring to navigation.
Re:Hmmm... Germany is looking better and better... (Score:1)
I think you could put countries in this order, from worst to best:
Re:Hmmm... Germany is looking better and better... (Score:2)
Actually, there is a forth option: A country where everyone is allowed, but is either culturally frowned upon, or has significant legal restrictions. The US is culturally very "agitated" -- the public is not shy about demonstrating against something, anything. I think to do a valid comparison, you have to look in-depth at what people are protesting. Heck, look at Slashdot -- the average Slashdotter is complaining because they they can't steal music. That's a far cry from complaining about 50% unemployment or food rationing or military government takeovers or something.
As an American, I think I can safely say that Americans are probably the most spoiled rotten populace in the world. The average American (particularly the average Slashdotter) have no clue what real restrictions in freedom are all about.
Re:Hmmm... Germany is looking better and better... (Score:2)
You are right: The report is really simplistic, but a report that uses more complex criteria wouldn't necessarily be better.Freedom is something that is very difficult to meassure.
But are you really sure that the US is the most free country in the world ? I do not want to say that Germany or Sweden like the US suggests is the most free country in the world, but I think it is dumb to just write things like but there's no doubt the US is the most free country in the world. If you write things like that, you should at least explain why you think that. In the US you must fear capital punishment. Nazi people can say what they think, but communists got big problems when they said what they were thinking during the McCarthy time. I wouldn't say the US is the most free country in the world, I think sweden is a really good guess from the UN.
Re:Hmmm... Germany is looking better and better... (Score:1)
Re:Hmmm... Germany is looking better and better... (Score:2, Insightful)
Funny. I live in Europe and that's the exact same feeling I have about the US.
Re:Hmmm... Germany is looking better and better... (Score:1)
There has definitely never been a law in germany that says that you have to lock your car or your house. Neiter do you need a permission to start a business.
No concept of freedom? I think this is not true as either. At least germany doesn't have something like the NSA or FBI, eavesdropping on your communication channels regularly. Doing such things here is very complicated for the police or the government because of very strict laws that protect your privacy.
Re:Hmmm... Germany is looking better and better... (Score:3, Insightful)
As for having to obtain permission from the government to start a business... For most types of businesses, you only need to go to the local mayor's office, pay $15 and off you go. I've done it myself in order to start a consulting business. As other posters have pointed out, the only restriction is the location for certain types of business that impact the neighborhood. Like brothels, car shops, chemical plants, etc. In this respect, Germany uses zoning much like most of the US.
Having lived in both countries, the amount of freedom you have in either place depends on the subject matter. A few examples:
a) Certain unions in the US have much more power to restrict and constrict businesses than German unions do.
b) On the other hand, the German crafts laws are incredibly restrictive and certainly stifle competition. Fortunately, it looks like the EU will put an end to this hundreds of years old nonsense.
c) As for encryption and copy protection circumvention, Germany's laws have traditionally been far more liberal than the US's. Due to pressure from the US this is changing, sadly.
d) Prostitution is legal in Germany. Illegal in most of the US.
e) Any moron can carry a gun in the US. German gun laws are very restrictive.
f) There is no issue with nakedness on public beaches in Germany.
g) There is no issue with nakedness on TV in Germany.
h) There is no issue with nakedness in printed form in public places. (It is usually too cold for actual nakedness in public places. But there is no law against that either - unless a public disturbance is caused, by a flasher, for example)
The list goes on. On the whole, I prefer the US which is why I moved here a while back. But the statement that the US is more free than other countries requires some qualifiers.
Re:Hmmm... Germany is looking better and better... (Score:1, Insightful)
I think most of the germans (government officials included) understood that to prevent anything similar to the 3rd reich, they have to secure the peoples ability to communicate their ideas no matter if somebody likes them or not.
For the german government it is far more important to protect the german people and companies from being spied at by competitors or foreign governments than to keep the hypothetical ability to spy on their own people. something that would never get through anyways. privacy is a very important point for german courts and media.
Re:Hmmm... Germany is looking better and better... (Score:1)
Youre right, the Germans do want to prevent a Third (Fourth?) Reich from happening again. But theyve tried to do this by, um, banning Nazi-related speech or expression (as has France and many other countries, remember the Yahoo case?). Therefore I doubt that they believe that they have to secure the peoples ability to communicate their ideas no matter if somebody likes them or not after all, encryption is only going to help spread Nazi literature, not hinder it. Maybe this will show them how rediculous censorship laws are; people can already freely get Nazi literature, laws or not, now theyll be able to do so and completely evade the government.
NPD != NSDAP (Score:2)
The NPD - an existing right-extremist German party, which you are obviously referring to, because the German government is currently trying to have it banned - is not the same thing as the NSDAP, which was the Nazi party during the Third Reich.
The NSDAP, on the other hand, has been forbidden. See the Verbotsgesetz [zusammenhaenge.at].
Re:Hmmm... Germany is looking better and better... (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Hmmm... Germany is looking better and better... (Score:3, Interesting)
The German Government is likely less altruistic than people suspect here. The danger is clearly for German/European businesses being spied upon by you-know-who.
If you read the original release, you'll notice (near the bottom) the initiative is by the ministry of economics. They are trying to create awareness for IT security in the German corporate environment.
Maybe German politicians figured out that criminals (political radicals, organized crime, etc.) are already using crypto, so they have little to lose by having businesses adopt crypto on a large scale...
Your mileage may vary, just my 0.02, yadda yadda...
Re:Hmmm... Germany is looking better and better... (Score:1)
Huh? Are you calling me a criminal?
Re:Hmmm... Germany is looking better and better... (Score:5, Informative)
First, they aren't "moving to OSS for all government". The Bundestag will use Linux as servers (including authentication etc.), while the clients will get WinXP. Other federal institutions do pretty much what they want to.
Second, the german government does most certainly not care so much about civil rights as you may think. Especially after 9/11 (and yes, I know the WTC wasn't exactly a german institution, but most germans seem to have forgot) there was quite a great backslash in civil rights, especially regarding privacy.
For example, a few days after, the minister of inner affairs (?) Otto Schily proposed that police should have the right to know about any of your banking transactions. Also, they started the "Rasterfahndung", meaning that they would get all information about "suspect" persons - mostly muslimic students - from all kinds of sources, including their universities, power suppliers, post offices etc. Of course, some people noticed that this was unconstitutional, but well, who cares...
Another incident was some guy proposing to force ISPs to block certain sites, which some ISPs promply did (including some universities), althoug the guy proposing it did not have any authority to force it.
Even before, there's a long record of not-so-privacy-respecting incidents. One of the funnier ones was a law that tried to force ISPs to keep every piece of data their customers sent and recieved for IIRC 7 years, while of course guaranteeing confidentality when passing over this data to the police. Of course, the ISPs protested, if only because of the costs of keeping such an amount of data.
It's hard to compare the situation between two countries, scince most people just know one of them good enough, but germany if definitely not a civil rights paradise.
Re:Hmmm... Germany is looking better and better... (Score:1, Offtopic)
There's a very good chance your children won't be allowed to come with you, even if your wife does.
Re:bullsh*t (Score:2)
Their lawyer is handling several couples in this boat.
The fact that most of them don't have this problem doesn't mean it isn't a chronic problem. Two US Presidential administrations have been involved in this particular case.
Re:Hmmm... Germany is looking better and better... (Score:2)
You're referring to data retention laws. It's an EU-wide thing. NCIS (UK crime intel) stole a march [cryptome.org] on everyone. They want to retain records of communication not the communication itself. The supposed reasons are for establishing alibis(yeah right), etc., as this applies to GSM location data too.
After 911 there was a proposal levelled at the EU parliament, can't find the link.
Re:Hmmm... Germany is looking better and better... (Score:2, Insightful)
The Germans generally (at least the young to middle aged ones) are mostly tech savvy, have a clue about politics, and actually care.
Perhaps their government reflects the population?
Or maybe it's the beer. Yeah. Beer...Munchen ROCKS.
Re:Hmmm... Germany is looking better and better... (Score:2)
Would you mind telling where you've been exactly, so I can move there? (Or could it be that people slashdotters meet working at a customer site could be more tech savy then the avarage?)
Ick - forget what I said about moving. I'll just drink beer and stay where I amRe:Hmmm... Germany is looking better and better... (Score:1)
PGP and other free encryption software is sponsored by Germany for a couple of years now (I think PGP sponsoring started about 6 years ago).
Privacy is sort of a holy thing to us germans. There are a lot of laws protecting privacy.
For example in every goverment institution there has to be someone responsible for the protection of the privacy of the citizens (Most goverment institutions have access to huge amounts of citizen data of course and this guy has to make sure that this data is not misused).
There are also strong laws requiring companies not to misuse, distribute or sell customer information without your consent...
Unfortunately software patents are a completely other matter. The situation isn't as bad as in the US but the lobby isn't sleeping here either.
The lobby is trying to get the European Parliament and Senate to adopt and pass a law implementing software patents and stricter copyright laws. A law passed by the European parliament has then to be implemented in every single European country
But as it seems France is starting to oppose this law and Germany isn't that much backing it up also - there is hope yet.
THE CATCH IS (here I can only speak of Germany not of Europe)...
The Unions are too strong in Germany. That alone is not nessecarily a bad thing but unfortunately the unions are very conservative and unwilling to move also!!!
They have sort of a dogma which says sort of "force the employee to work less long so the companies are forced to employ more people and thus battle unemployment". In the metal working branch (cars and so on) there is the 37,5 hour week and they are aiming for 35h (but with higher salaries of course).
They say that the companies make good profits every year and thus have the money to do so - of course not looking at the global picture where there are foreign companies making even bigger profits.
The worst is that they fight againt every attempt to make the job market more flexible. The basic things like tying part of the salary to the annual performance of the company and things like that.
The are so-called (badly translated) blancket-coverage-tariff-treaties requiring every company affected by the one of the unions to pay the same for a certain type of employee - and allowing NEARLY NO flexibility if one of these companies is currently in bad shape...
Also you cannot "hire and fire" but that I consider generally a good thing as it forces companies to think about business models and strategies. A manager who messed up cannot just cut costs and give the impression of "actively doing something" about the problems by just fireing of 20% of the employees. (This is one of the badest habits I know of in the US - one which might crush more companies that it rescues)
Now imagine the IT department of BMW (i.e. metal working union) where the union tries to get everybody to work no more that 37,5 hours...
Of course this is not happening (outsource the IT and it's not metal working anymore) but this doesn't say that the unions are not trying...
Also there are high social taxes on the salary of every employee (part is deducted directly from the salary, part is to be payed by the employer for every employee).
Generally the social net is a good thing but it's current structure is outdated and requires too much money for too very/bad results. There is NO "quality assurance" for the social work of the department of employment. Their job is to find available jobs for unemployed people and/or help them learn and qualify for new jobs.
And this they do very badly (and with high costs) at the moment...
So it's like everywhere - some things are much better and some are much worse. I personally wouldn't want to work (or more important live) in the US for more than a few years - (I had my experiences in working in "the Valley", thank you).
On the other side this is most likely true for Americans working in Europe, too...
... Just my ten-thousand bits
Re:Hmmm... Germany is looking better and better... (Score:5, Interesting)
Would you settle for an American who has lived in Germany for over fifteen years?
I have to agree with an earlier poster who suggested that by and large, German citizens are better educated and far and away more interested in politics and civil rights issues than Americans are. Hate to have to say that about my countrymen, but it's true. And ultimately, it's history that's responsible for that. Germans only have to look back one generation to see a time when they abandoned all respect for freedom, and it brought on unparalleled disaster. As a result, very many Germans today have a strong sense of responsibility to history that requires their active interest in politics and civil rights. Unfortunately, I miss this sense of duty among too many people in the US.
And another issue is simply fact that weak encryption and weak privacy policy is largely an interest of the United States, and hardly any one else shares the interest. It is widely suspected that American spooks are monitoring communications in countries like Germany, and they don't like it. Naturally, this kind of policy is precisely what they can and should do about it.
Having said all that, I must add that there are some laws and ideas I find very weird, especially concerning freedom of speech. The most astounding of all: You can prosecuted in Germany for insulting someone! You can criticize someone as sharply as you like, but if you utter something unconstructive such as "You're an asshole," you can be taken to court.
What's worse is that the penalty's are more severe if the insult is directed at a civil servant, such as a policeman or a bureaucrat.
I could rant on about this for a few more pages, but I think I'll just leave it there.
Re:There are cons too (Score:3, Insightful)
Although most younger Germans are very friendly to Americans, many of the older folks are downright hostile. If you start speaking to them in English, they walk away.
Maybe those folks didn't speak English? It is Germany, you know. :)
To tell you the truth, I didn't encounter any of that when I was there. The people seemed really friendly. Of course, I have blond-haired blue-eyed German genes in me, but my attitude still screams "American!" from a mile away. :)
Re:There are cons too (Score:1)
If English wasn't my first language, I'd be inclined to ignore someone who started talking to me in English, or even reply 'Sprechen Du Deutsch?'
Re:There are cons too (Score:3, Informative)
While Germany does not have a First Amendment, it does have an "Artikel 5 Absatz 1 Grundgesetz". Here is my attempt to translate it to English:
Everyone has the right to freely state and distribute his opinion in spoken, written or imaged form and to obtain information from publicly available sources without limit. The freedom of the press and the freedom of reporting on radio and TV are granted. There is no censonship.
Re:There are cons too (Score:2, Informative)
for example, stating that there was no holocaust is considered touching the dignity of those who were murdered in concentration camps.
good thing.
Another CD (Score:2, Informative)
Here's the link from the BSI [www.bsi.de]: http://www.bsi.de/presse/aktuell/sich_cd.htm [www.bsi.de].
Good News (Score:1)
Adele - Interesting (Score:2)
It is all nice to have free software and manuals to encourage unsophisticated users to learn and try out encryption.
I can always bounce new stuf off friends (or other non users on my computer with a test account). But the average lay person probaly can't.
I'm glad that some projects are doing more to help make the accessible, crypto is only going to become more usefull with more people are using it.
Germany must have learned some lessons (Score:3, Funny)
That also makes me wanna quote Vizzini from the Princess Bride: "Inconceivable". I wonder if the German high command ever had that thought.
Man Encryption -> Nazis -> Princess Bride. I didn't get enough sleep.
Download yourself! (Score:1)
The GPA - Source texts can download you here.
The "you" was actually a link! There I was thinking I was a sentient being, when all I am is gpa-0.5.0.tar.gz. Oh well. Can someone out there untar me?
Re:lol (Score:1)
Re:lol (Score:2)
Re:lol (Score:2)
What's your suggestion? No governments?
Apart from the obvious fact that more that just governments out there want to look at your data, without them well, there'd be no government, at least until someone next door marched in.
None of this makes the German move one in the wrong direction whether or not governments are the primary source of concern. They probably shouldn't be, but we all need our bogey men I suppose.
Re:But what's their motive? (Score:2, Insightful)
The same question can be asked as as to why our founding fathers gave us the bill of rights. I guess that sometimes people are just nice. Sometimes, very rarely, the governmrnt does the right thing.
Re:But what's their motive? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:But what's their motive? (Score:4, Insightful)
It does make sense: The German government is more concerned about the US government snooping on German citizens than it is about being able to do such snooping itself. It's a case of finding the lesser of two evils; they evidently decided that not being able to snoop on their citizens was less of a problem than having the US government snoop on their citizens.
How about. . . (Score:1)
Re:But what's their motive? (Score:3, Interesting)
Open source software is becoming more supported by EU countries for political reasons (Government should use non-proprietary tools), social reasons (open access), quality reasons (speaks for itself), and so on. There is quite a lot of money being spent on open-source development by various EU agencies, the German government being just one example of many. Sadly the UK government is in Microsoft's pocket at the moment :(
Re:But what's their motive? (Score:2)
It's not that they want strong crypto for their citizens, but for their companies. It's the minister of economics who is a supporter of crypto and open source, while the minister of inner affairs basically tries to cut down all of the citizens democratic rights , including that of privacy.
Believe me, though there are some cool things going on here in germany (like the Bundestag getting equipped with linux servers), it's not all roses
Re:But what's their motive? (Score:2)
The only possible anser is that they have developed a high speed decryption computer, and can read everything. They feel people will feel safer sending emails, and give away more.
Maybe they are getting ready for WW III, and don't want the embarassment of having their encryption totally cracked again.
Re:But what's their motive? (Score:1)