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Resume Spamming Redux 292

Posted by CmdrTaco from the can't-say-it-surprises-me dept.
wiredog writes "Remember this story about the guy who spammed his resume? Well, now the Washington Post is reporting that resume spamming is a trend. Enough of a trend to have generated a backlash!" Amusing fallout from an amusing story, and hopefully a lesson for others too.
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Resume Spamming Redux More

Resume Spamming Redux

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  • Programmer for hire (Score:3, Funny)

    by drew_kime ( 303965 ) on Friday January 25, 2002 @01:52PM (#2901639) Journal
    Anyone want to hire me? I can do ... Oh nevermind.

  • Hrm...lets load pine... (Score:5, Funny)

    by wo1verin3 ( 473094 ) on Friday January 25, 2002 @01:56PM (#2901671) Homepage
    1. Free Viagra
    2. Hi, I took naked pics
    3. Programmer For Hire
    4. University Diplomas Cheap
    5. MCSE seeking Job

    I think I'll delete #5 first.

  • Spamming for jobs is not good (Score:4, Interesting)

    by bildstorm ( 129924 ) <peter.buchy@s[ ]fi ['hh.' in gap]> on Friday January 25, 2002 @01:58PM (#2901687) Homepage Journal

    I remember when I was in the process years back of trying to organise a startup. I would get spammed endlessly for jobs.

    I don't mind people sending me an unsolicited résumé, but the key is to know the company. Form letters can work, but make sure that what's actually in the form letter pertains to what we do.

    Currently I work for a company specialised in doing mobile entertainment using a Java platform. Don't tell me about your mad web skills with PHP and MySQL, because that's not what we do. Of course, if you hand-crafted a letter properly...

    At any rate, I can't figure out why these people think they'll get jobs. I'll buy a ThinkGeek T-shirt for the first person who can prove that they really got a job from résumé spamming.

    • Re:Spamming for jobs is not good (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Rogerborg ( 306625 ) on Friday January 25, 2002 @02:11PM (#2901787) Homepage
      • At any rate, I can't figure out why these people think they'll get jobs

      And an important difference is that typical generic spam is a no-risk proposition. If you send out a zillion spams and get one bite, you win. If you get zero bites, you don't lose anything, because these weren't your customers anyway.

      But spamming for jobs is self destructive; you're actually closing off opportunities for yourself. Similarly, existing businesses who spam (though arrogance or more usually just stupidity) are cutting their own throats. You really have to wonder if it wouldn't be a better world if we took action to ensure that all spammers become, ahem, eligible for a Darwin Award.

      • True enough...

        I think the only places that'll matter are those which have automated systems. Then they're looking for the right keywords.

        Of course, if you have to spam, chances are, you don't have the right keywords.

    • Define spamming in the scope of this particular challenge.

      If you consider submitting resumes to a bunch of company's on monster.com until I got a job, then I win.

      But, if you're only counting sending out bulk emails directly from me to a bunch of people, then I guess I don't.

    • You must keep in mind alot of these resume spammers are former @HOME employees which have been laid off. :)
    • I used to run a web provider, never had any employees (it was small, I should have known better, anyways). I'm now getting spammed 2 or 3 times a day from one particular company (QIS.com, it was also under some other name but they finally stopped). All through Sprintlink's network. (Sprintlink, btw, appears to do absolutely nothing about spam, so I would highly suggest everyone look elsewhere for connectivity. When I decide to start another company, I now know who not to deal with - QIS or Sprintlink.)
    • At any rate, I can't figure out why these people think they'll get jobs. I'll buy a ThinkGeek T-shirt for the first person who can prove that they really got a job from résumé spamming. Actually, that is how I got my current job(My first and only job so far.) I was desperate for a job and everything I had done so far wasn't working. So I thought "screw it" and decided to send an e-mail to every single computer job want-ad in the Sunday's newspaper. I did not sent out one mass e-mail. Instead I put together a form letter/template. And would switch keywords in it to reflect the want ad, that I would send the e-mail to (and would attach my resume at the end.) I did this for every single ad and sent each e-mail individually. And got 2-3 human responses. One of whom I was hired at. 90% of other responses were automated, that read something along the lines of "We've received your resume and have placed it in our database. We will contact you when there is a job opening fitting your skills" SageMadHatter
      • Congratulations. you did exactly what the old resume (with no accent even though I'm French and I should know better) is supposed to do: You modified it slightly to match the particular ad, but you sent a lot of them.

        But did you send 20,000 exactly alike? No. So you didn't SPAM.
    • You owe me a shirt friend. The reality of it is, spamming works. If it didn't work, people wouldn't bother. Notice you get less telemarketers lately?? Telemarketing is not as effective as it once was.

      Why is Bernie Shifman any less guilty that AOL, Amazon, or MSN?? I have only been to MSN once, and then I changed the homepage preference, but I get e-mails from them daily. Why?? A hotmail user e-mailed me.

      When I did consulting work, I used to harvest directories of local IT managers and send brochures and resumes for our companies services. While I was somewhat targeted in my spamming, I got alot of wrong e-mail addresses.

      I am looking over old records, and I made over $27k from "cold calls(S)" (notation for people I spammed) in 1997. I admit it was spam, and I am proud of it.

      Of course, realtors look through tax records and find people who bought their houses 5 years ago and contact all of them.

      The real concept of Spam vs. Bulk mail seems to revolve around the idea that there is no penalty for the spammer. He doesn't pay for stamps, paper, etc. But to me there is far less of an environmental impact to sending an e-mail than a glossy brochure.

      Just look at all of the junk mail you recieve and know that every person in america gets just as much. All of those glossy catalogs and 4.9% credit card offers consuming the landfills oif America.

      The effectivness of an advertising message sent via e-mail is just as effective than that sent by snail mail. The real key is to have a good advertising message. If you send a subject "Resume Attached: " your response is not as good as say... "New streaming solutions for multimedia in the Mobile Paradigm" or even "Multimedia pioneer seeks new java-based challenges.". You might read that e-mail, the guy in accounting won't.

      Yes, your subject should reflect the body of your message. If you are looking for a job as a Unix admin, put it in the subject! "Unix admin and scripter seeks employment." If they have a Unix job, they'll read it, otherwise, they won't.

      I'll bet none of the resumes I sent in 1997 still exist today, but I'm sure that 99% of the paper resumes sent in that same year are still cluttering something up.

      I'll spam you and let you know where to mail that shirt.

      ~Hammy
    • well, I got a job buy walking from business to business just handg resume to the Secretary, does that count?
      then there is all the people who got jobs through those boilerromm headhunters, who pretty much spam your resume around. I paid for that one, sheesh.

  • Well at least.... (Score:5, Funny)

    by wo1verin3 ( 473094 ) on Friday January 25, 2002 @01:58PM (#2901689) Homepage
    .... if these resumes qualify as spam it wouldn't be hard to prosecute. We have the name and phone number of the person responsible.
  • I can attest to resume spamming becoming a trend. As of the last month or so I have seen many people, from all over the world spamming resumes to internal Sun mailing lists and personal addresses. Personally I would NEVER hire someone who used this tactic, reguardless of how qualified they are

  • Job sites (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Geeyzus ( 99967 ) <mark_madej@@@yahoo...com> on Friday January 25, 2002 @01:59PM (#2901700)
    Job sites like Monster [monster.com] really encourage spamming prospective hirers as well.

    You set up an online resume, and can 1-click send it to the employers of your choice. I was laid off in September, and I sent out 200 resumes in 1 day in this way.

    How many callbacks from those, and from all the resumes I sent out over the next month? NOT ONE. And I am not surprised, I can only imagine the number of resumes they are recieving.

    Although this isn't the same as all-out spamming, employer spam via job sites online is running rampant and is only going to get worse, which is bad for potentially good candidates as they are lost in the sea of Monster.com email notifications...

    Mark

    • Re:Job sites (Score:4, Interesting)

      by RazzleFrog ( 537054 ) on Friday January 25, 2002 @02:06PM (#2901749)
      There is a huge difference there. Most of the listings on Monster are not real employers but are headhunters listing their clients' open positions. They know full well they are going to receive tons of responses. Also, if they aren't calling you back it's because they don't have a job for your skillset. I had to deactivate my resume because I was getting swamped in emails. Thankfully I used the anonymous option and none of them got my real email address.

    • Re:Job sites (Score:4, Informative)

      by GTRacer ( 234395 ) <gtracer308&yahoo,com> on Friday January 25, 2002 @02:08PM (#2901763) Homepage Journal
      True, but at least the companies you're 1-clicking the resumes to are ASKING for applicants. Maybe not in your field, but they ARE looking. And you're most likely sending to the H.R. contact that set up the company account.

      True resume spam goes to companies whether or not they're hiring and to people inside that may or may not have hire & fire capabilities.

      That said, I wish Monster could find me a frigging job here...

      GTRacer
      - I can do lots of things on a computer

    • After getting very frustrated with my current full-time position (been there for 13 years now) I posted my resume on Monster.com and over the next two weeks, received in excess of 180 phone calls or e-mails, all from headhunters.

      The contacts broke down like this:

      75% - Calls from recruiters with positions outside of my home state after I had specifically said I didn't want to move.

      10% - Calls from recruiters with temporary positions they needed filled, after I had specifically said I was looking only for full-time employment

      1 - Call from an out-of-state headhunter who had one local temporary position, but then told me he would probably never have another job for me.

      The remainder - Calls from local headhunters who all said that I had the perfect skill set for multiples jobs they were recruiting for, who sent me out on over 40 interviews, from which I received two legitimate offers - one for a marketing company that specializes in developing spamming tools for mass-mailing campaigns and for facilitating tele-marketers calls (which I turned down) and a second for an insurance company on the fifth floor of a non-airconditioned building that required all their developers to wear suits (which I also turned down).

      I spent many, many hours filling out applications and modifying my resume for each individiual job, and after more than a month of hassles, I decided that my current job wasn't so bad after all.
    • I tried the monster.com thing. I had no responses and the few of the listings I decided to make the effort to contact by phone told me that the positions they were advertising for weren't even available.

      Although it might encourage spamming, at least the companies you're sending resumes to did set themselves up for that exact purpose. Any corporation listing on monster.com, dice.com or others EXPECTS lots of resumes, and chances are good the resumes won't always match the job description. Probably the reason I never heard anything.

      -Restil

  • Doesn't seem wise... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by FauxPasIII ( 75900 ) on Friday January 25, 2002 @02:00PM (#2901702)
    Does it strike anyone else as just a little bit foolish to send a message out to hundreds of strangers containing (presumably) your full name, address, phone number and valid email address ?

    Identity theft, anyone ? Not to mention that you set yourself up for reverse spam...

    • Re:Doesn't seem wise... (Score:4, Funny)

      by Courageous ( 228506 ) on Friday January 25, 2002 @02:02PM (#2901716)
      I'm accepting resumes from potential job candidates. All applications must include resume, social security number, date of birth, and mother's maiden name. :)

      C//

      • Hmmm...this resume dumping looks like a great way to...ah...unload some of those prickly co-workers or PHBs in my workplace!

        I can think of several people right now that I'd rather not have here. I could polish up a resume for them and post it to every Usenet group I could find. Mebbe even a few of the alt.sex sites just for the entertainment value!

    • My Monster.com Resume put me on every spam list. (Score:4, Informative)

      by Confessed Geek ( 514779 ) on Friday January 25, 2002 @02:10PM (#2901779)
      I can testify to the reverse spam. I read an article a few months ago about how spammers get your email address. They addressed a number of ways but the missed the one that got me.

      My publicly viewable resume.

      I was job hunting and put my resume - full name,address, phone removed - up on Monster.com, hotjobs, dice, ect. I created a new email account, just for recieving responses. Well, the online resume only got me calls from head hunters, but withing a couple months that address was recieving spam like crazy, while my other more guarded address, even the ones I use for online registration and other "unsafe" purposes were still relativly spam free.

      This leads me to believe that places like HotJobs and Monster are harvested by bots/spiders for email addresses on a regular basis... If the sites themselves aren't selling them.

      Moral of this story is if you post a public resume, keep a seperate mail account for it.

    • Re:Doesn't seem wise... (Score:4, Informative)

      by KurdtX ( 207196 ) on Friday January 25, 2002 @02:34PM (#2901944)
      Yes this happened to me. I was stupid enough to use my "main" private email account that was not previously recieving spam (apart from forwards from my friends). Now spam has escalated at an increasing rate, every week it seems my daily rate has incremented.

      The humorus side to this is watching the evolution of those who were spamming me. First it was the headhunters and other job-search web sites (blocked some of them), then it sorta moved to "special offers" (ironic they buy their list from those who spam the unemployed); the "make money at home" came soon after that, followed by all the rest of the herbal viagra and diet pill "we spam anyone" stuff. Only now am I getting the good stuff, here's to hot young teen lesbian whores!

  • Resume Posting Services (Score:4, Interesting)

    by aridhol ( 112307 ) <ka_lac@hotmail.com> on Friday January 25, 2002 @02:00PM (#2901706) Homepage Journal
    There are some websites that offer to send your resume to interested parties. Some of them send your info to employers that have signed up with the service, in standard headhunter style. Some send your resume to newsgroups in the *.jobs.* hierarchies. These ones almost always seem to have bad aim, as regional jobs newsgroups are flooded with postings from other areas. I wouldn't be surprised if other services spam your resume without your knowledge. Although this should reflect badly on the posting service, it is more likely to reflect on the person whose name is in the message. That would be the job seeker whose resume was spammed without his/her permission.

  • It Works! (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Redking ( 89329 ) <stevenwNO@SPAMredking.com> on Friday January 25, 2002 @02:01PM (#2901713) Homepage Journal
    My friend who graduated from college last year spammed his resume and was hired by a Department of Defense contractor. He didn't email his resume to random companies, but instead he submitted his resume to every job search engine/website. It worked and now he has a sweet job.

    I asked him about the job listing that he was hired for, but he doesn't even remember which website had the listing. People are just trying to find honest work when they send their resumes out. There isn't really a reason to take someone to court just because they sent you an unsolicited resume.

    • Re:It Works! (Score:2, Informative)

      by RazzleFrog ( 537054 )
      You don't understand what spamming is. Posting your resume on job search engines/websites is NOT spamming. That is how you should do it. Better yet, you should find a headhunter and let them do all the work - free for you.

      It's when you just stripmine websites for addresses and then create a script to send out thousands of unsolicited emails. It is even worse when you are asked to stop and you continue to do it.
      • Actually, the headhunter alternative isn't always so great. I personally know of several respectable, smaller, companies that avoid hiring people who went through a headhunter/recruiter whenever possible. They don't like paying all the additional fees they get hit with upon hiring the candidate. Some of these places may, in fact, prefer contacting you directly after you post a resume on Monster or another job-search site.

        Also, in my past experiences, most headhunters are out for themselves, and care very little about your long-term success in a new position. Sure, they'll call all the time and try to prep you for a new job - but if they know the place has high turnover or generates a lot of complaints, they'll hide that from you.
    • Why are we in the /. community getting so caught up in lawsuit culture? Are we going to file suit against every idiot that sends us e-mail witout us asking? Since when did this become such an emotional turmoil that we have to take people to court for damages?

      Don't like it? Don't hire them.

      • Because in US society, there are only three choices when someone does something wrong but not criminal:

        1. Ignore it.
        2. Ask the offender politely to stop
        3. Sue.
        (Violence, of course, is illegal)

        #1 is guaranteed to produce no change in behavior.
        #3 is guaranteed to produce a change in behavior (possibly not the change you want)
        #2 will often work wonders if you are dealing with an individual who cares what you think.
        #2 is guaranteed to produce no change in behavior when dealing with strangers who consciously choose to engage in behavior they know is offensive to you (spamming, for example).

        So, when dealing with faceless entities, you have two effective choices:

        1. Ignore
        2. Sue

        #1 is really best for your own mental health.
        #2 is the only option that can possibly produce a change in behavior and is the only correct choice if you wish to better society by doing your part to eliminate anti-social behavior.

        Don't like it? Don't hire them.
        This is equivalent to ignoring them. If they get hired by ANYONE, their behavior has been encouraged. They will do it again. They will tell their friends to do it. Eventually someone will write a book telling everyone how great it is to do this.

        Or you can say "I will spend 30 minutes of every day ignoring stupid people. There is no point in growing an ulcer over it."
    • Then you're not familiar with the case of Bernie Shifman [petemoss.com]. What your friend did was look through jobs on a job search site, and indiscriminately submit his resume to every listing. That's not spam - the recipients have ASKED for resume submissions, and your friend submitted them.

      What Bernie did WAS spam. He sent his resume (through e-mail, not a job site) to thousands of e-mail addresses, including non-HR addresses. Many of the addresses never asked for resume submissions. When people complained, he went berzerk and started threatening them with lawsuits. Then he spammed AGAIN, after he was asked not to.

      What your friend did was fine - what Bernie did was not OK.
    • There isn't really a reason to take someone to court just because they sent you an unsolicited resume.

      I'm in complete agreement with you -- presuming that you work in a company's HR department. These folks get paid to sift through crap like that. Bulk-mailing stuff to people who have no reason to look at it [petemoss.com] should be punishable by death.

  • Reverse Spam (Score:2, Interesting)

    by iamjim ( 313916 )
    The worst fallout I have experienced from such a tactic is head hunters calling you non-stop: "Hi, I am so-and-so, I have the perfect job for you - call me" IF you call them, they are full of BS and waste your time trying to pimp you out to job positions that you don't want jsut so they get paid. And they never stop. They "follow up" every few months, snail-mail, e-mail - it never ends!

    I don't think this is isolated, but if I (and the few other people I know) am in a unique situation, please let me know ;)

  • Resume spamming works (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Nicolas MONNET ( 4727 ) <nicoaltiva@gm a i l.com> on Friday January 25, 2002 @02:07PM (#2901752) Journal
    ... and actually recipients usually like it. I know of several people who have found work this way, and apparently they got no complaint.

    IMO it's not as illegitimate as the previous stories seemed to imply, provided you use a sensible list of address (jobs@company.com for example), and not a grep of Usenet addresses.

    There's really no comparison between batching a few dozen resumes to somewhat relevants, and sending hundreds of thousands of porno mail ("Do not open this mail if you've below 18!" -- still laughin about this one) to completely random addresses.

    The problem with the poor dude that was derided here was that he was a fucking moron; he would not have had any problem had he apologized or just even shut up after being told not to send more mail.
    • IMO it's not as illegitimate as the previous stories seemed to imply, provided you use a sensible list of address (jobs@company.com for example), and not a grep of Usenet addresses.

      What about jobs@apple.com?

      Does that go to Steve or HR? :o

  • Why hire lazy people? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by F.Prefect ( 98101 ) on Friday January 25, 2002 @02:07PM (#2901753) Homepage
    From the article:

    "Less than 10 years ago, the effort for applying to 100 jobs was as big a deal as sending the invites to a wedding, with all of the paper and stamps," said Marcus Ronaldi, a San Francisco consultant who regularly receives unwanted résumés via e-mail. "Now you are able to apply for many jobs by pointing and clicking with your mouse."

    Any sensible employer should refuse to hire a person who chain-guns his résumé to a hundred different people precisely because doing it that way is the easy way out! If you want to be employed, demonstrate that you are willing to go to all the trouble of actually doing it right. Otherwise you're simply telling people, "I'm too lazy to get off my butt and put a little effort into being hired."
    • unless I am specifically asked to email a person who is expecting my resume, it shall never go out.

      In our digital world, there is still that simplistic charm of a nicely formed resume on high quality paper, packaged in a nice envelope. If you want to attach a digital copy, a nice, pure black floppy with a printer printed label make a great touch. (in otherwords, no funky neon 13 year old floppies)

      This approach not only shows that you are willing to put in the extra mile, but that you're one step ahead by including both forms of media.
    • Why is this lazy and not efficient? Not that I agree with the practice of mass-mailing resumes, but if you're going to do it, why spend all day if an hour will suffice? Automating tedious processes is one of the things that computers do best. I don't see why snail-mailing resumes is "doing it right" unless HR managers are impressed by thick paper.
    • That's right. I would never hire anyone who doesn't walk into my office with a professionally designed and printed résumé, with a proper cover letter, in a hand-engraved envelope addressed to myself. And all the papers better be the exact right color, none of that generic white stock. I don't care if he lives in Kansas and is applying to my office in New York, he had better hand deliver that résumé personally, or I won't even think to look at it. If they are too lazy to travel 1000 miles, why would I want to hire them?

      Do you realize how pompous your post sounded? While a nicely done paper résumé is impressive, there are so many variations on how they are supposed to be done, that it's ridiculous. Am I supposed to be terse, with bulleted one-liners, or am I supposed to state job functions and explain my duties, responsibilities, and achievements? What about the cover letter? How can I possibly say something unique that pertains to this exchange, when everyone and their cousin is also sending the exact same thing? And again, is it supposed to be short and to the point, or more verbose and explanatory?

      Take a look at the job-search sites, or books. They all say to tailor résumés and cover letters to the company, but how are we supposed to know the company wants it to be done? That is why I say your post is pompous, when you say people have to be "willing to go to all the trouble of actually doing it right." Define 'right', and I will waste another $50 on the 'right' paper, 'right' cover letter wording, 'right' résumé, 'right' everything else that goes along with it. Next time. Thankfully I do have a job now.

      If someone sends a resume in email to a company, especially a company that produces or services computer products, it should carry as much weight as any paper resume. Imagine if a computer software company decided it wouldn't hire anyone who was too uneducated to send a proper email resume. After all if they are too stupid to know how to use a computer and the Internet, then that company surely doesn't want them as employees.

      Personally, I think the whole process is a bunch of crap. Someone applying for a job, at anything smaller than a worldwide company with a million employees, should contact someone at a company any way possible. And that someone shouldn't be the HR manager, unless the person is looking for work in the HR department. A computer tech should contact a manager in the IT department. Then if there is a job opening that matches the person's skills and preferences, there can be further dialog. If not, the person can be told so directly. No more of this canned response, "We have received your application, and will file it...."

      There are only two arguments against this. One is that it's not appropriate. See my first paragraph on what some people see as appropriate. The second argument is that it would waste so much of someone's time, answering 100 job requests each day. But those job requests are coming to someone at those companies right now anyway. There is just a department dedicated to fielding them. Imagine if you could cut your HR department out entirely, and just add a few more personnel to the other sections to handle the increase in correspondense they would get. These few more personnel would of course be working in those sections when they weren't answering job requests, so they would be more productive than the HR department staff would be when they aren't answering job requests. I know this will never be implemented, and it's only half thought out, but it sounds better than the crap people have to go through nowadays, just to find work to put food on their table and pay rent.

  • Bet the new guy read slashdot (Score:3, Funny)

    by AnalogBoy ( 51094 ) on Friday January 25, 2002 @02:08PM (#2901762) Journal
    After the first guy was publicised on /., I had more than one new entry in my e-mail box from someone spamming their resume.

    Now.. I see three possibilities here:

    (I'm using "he" as the subject here. Women, typically, are not this dumb.)

    1: He formed the idea himself, out of extreme desperation for a job (Been there, done that.. just didnt spam)

    2: He got the idea from the original guy.

    3: He got the idea from slashdot. THANKS SLASHDOT.
    :)
    • I'm using "he" as the subject here. Women, typically, are not this dumb.

      Wrong. Women are not smarter than men, nor are men smarter than women. People in general are not very smart and rarely take the time to think through their actions. The "it seemed like a good idea at the time" mentality is played out over and over throughout the world.

      So, reading your post, I will guess that you are more intelligent than the individual that spammed you. However, by your logic:

      If the spammer is a man, you are a woman (contradictory because your username is AnalogBoy)

      If the spammer is a woman, you are smarter than her, thus you must be Wonder Woman (which would also explain the AnalogBoy handle as that is your "super-hero cover" designed to confuse the bad guys (who, again by your logic, would be unable to see past such an obvious ruse))

      It is possible that you are a man, and therefore the spammer must have been a lower form of life.

      ;)

  • Definition of Spam (Score:3, Interesting)

    by kenneth_martens ( 320269 ) on Friday January 25, 2002 @02:10PM (#2901782)
    While the true definition of spam is a tricky question that probably few people agree on, I think most people would agree that spam is "unsolicited commercial email" (see the CAUCE FAQ [cauce.org] for more info.)

    I don't think (at least according to the above definition of spam) that emailing your resume to a couple dozen people constitutes as spam. (It's a really stupid idea, though.) If you send your resume to a company through snail mail, they wouldn't consider it junk mail. If you send it through email (and you're sending it to just them, not to the whole world) they probably won't sue you for sending them junk mail. Just the same, it's probably better to send a real paper resume--it shows you put some effort into it other than point-and-click.

  • I got Shifman's resume (Score:5, Interesting)

    by wiredog ( 43288 ) on Friday January 25, 2002 @02:13PM (#2901805) Journal
    At my home e-mail address. Not work, home. That's why it's spam. Sending your resume out to the hr departments at a zillion companies that may want you is targeted. Sending it to random people at their homes is not targeted, and is spam.

    Shifman got no more than he deserved.

    • Hey, I got it too. At my badtux.org address, not my work address. Now, any moron can take 1 second to look at my badtux.org page and know I'm not interested in Windows losers, even if I was running a business rather than a vanity site (gotta be honest there), but that was too much work for Bernie...

    • Re:I got Shifman's resume (Score:5, Insightful)

      by gorsh ( 75930 ) on Friday January 25, 2002 @04:11PM (#2902702)

      Shifman got no more than he deserved.


      Did he?


      it's obvious that Bernie Shifman is a moron asshole spammer, and on that basis I have no sympathy for him. But what Neil Schwartzman has done goes a little too far IMHO. He's posted Bernie's home address, phone number, aerial pictures of his apartment on his Web site. The popularity of that site has now given Bernie the dubious honor of "The Most Hated Man on the Internet" (Bill Gates notwithstanding). Shifman is no doubt the recepient of thousands of harassing phone calls, e-mails, people outside his apartment, etc. He will never be able to get a decent job again, and his life is all but ruined.


      And yet he has been proved guilty of no crime.


      Is this the best that the so-called egalitarian culture of the Internet has to offer? I don't see any Jonathan Katz articles standing up for the rights of this guy, who's currently getting the electronic equivalent of a lynching.


      Yes, Bernie's moronic threats and accusations are highly amusing, but it's important to remember that there's a real person behind them. A person of obviously diminished capacity, who honestly thought he was doing the right thing. If Bernie Shifman were to commit suicide tomorrow, how would Neil Schwartzman and everyone else who took part in making this guy's life hell feel?


      (And yes, the case can be made that Bernie did include his personal information in his spam, but does that mean he gave up his right to privacy? How many strangers do I have to send my resume to before I can make the assumption it'll be spread all over the Web? 5? 50? 500? 5000? Where's the line?)


      In the end, I think this is really a matter between Bernie and Neil, and those are the two that need to settle it. I hate spam just as much as the next guy, but I think people need to be proven guilty (in a court of law) before being condemmed. Let's not all let ourselves be guided by mob rule. The Internet was built for better things than this.

      • it's obvious that Bernie Shifman is a moron asshole spammer, and on that basis I have no sympathy for him. But what Neil Schwartzman has done goes a little too far IMHO. He's posted Bernie's home address, phone number, aerial pictures of his apartment on his Web site. The popularity of that site has now given Bernie the dubious honor of "The Most Hated Man on the Internet" (Bill Gates notwithstanding). Shifman is no doubt the recepient of thousands of harassing phone calls, e-mails, people outside his apartment, etc. He will never be able to get a decent job again, and his life is all but ruined.


        And this is a problem how? His actions, and his actions alone have made him "The Most Hated Man On the Internet" If he'd apologized to Neil, promised to never do it again and behaved like a decent human being, instead of threatening lawsuits with every other sentence do you think that he would nearly as hated? Even if Neil had posted the exchange under those circumstances would it have made Slashdot headlines? ("Moron spammer issues apology and stops spamming")

        Yes, Bernie's moronic threats and accusations are highly amusing, but it's important to remember that there's a real person behind them. A person of obviously diminished capacity, who honestly thought he was doing the right thing. If Bernie Shifman were to commit suicide tomorrow, how would Neil Schwartzman and everyone else who took part in making this guy's life hell feel?


        Though I took no active role in harrassing Bernie I certianlly wouldn't mourn his passing. Yes that's a cold hearted, vile thing to say but it's true. Likewise I wouldn't be upset if every person who ever sent me spam took their own lives, same goes for Hillary Rosen and "Smiling" Jack Valentii - all people who have in some way made my life (and many others) just a little bit more miserable their sudden absence would be like a ray of sunshine.

        (And yes, the case can be made that Bernie did include his personal information in his spam, but does that mean he gave up his right to privacy? How many strangers do I have to send my resume to before I can make the assumption it'll be spread all over the Web? 5? 50? 500? 5000? Where's the line?)


        One.

        If your sending personal info to random strangers you've already given up your right to privacy. Maybe Bernie should've researched Neils privacy policy before sending him personal info?

        In the end, I think this is really a matter between Bernie and Neil, and those are the two that need to settle it. I hate spam just as much as the next guy, but I think people need to be proven guilty (in a court of law) before being condemmed. Let's not all let ourselves be guided by mob rule. The Internet was built for better things than this


        Bernies not being punished for a crime, he's being smacked by his peers for an amazing, and continued, breach of etiquitte(sp?) Anyway all Neil did was post the facts (+ some personal opinion) of his communications with Bernie and other some other publically available information. Final judgement was left to the reader, as was what (if any) action to take against him.
  • Many companies warn employees not to open attachments from unknown senders, fearful of computer viruses.

    I'm surprised no spammer has included a Word virus that mails the resume to everybody in the recipient's address book. It could optionally email all their names, addresses, and phone numbers to the spammer's "legal team" so they can be included as defendants if the spammer sues for "slander".
    Instead of opening these attachments, I suggest every recipient should just send this canned response:

    You sent the attachment in Microsoft Word format, a secret proprietary format, so I cannot read it. If you send me the plain text, HTML, or PDF, then I could read it.
    Sending people documents in Word format has bad effects, because that practice puts pressure on them to use Microsoft software. In effect, you become a buttress of the Microsoft monopoly. This specific problem is a major obstacle to the broader adoption of GNU/Linux. Would you please reconsider the use of Word format for communication with other people?
    P.S. You want to fuck with me?

  • You'd think out-of-work techies... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by mystery_bowler ( 472698 ) on Friday January 25, 2002 @02:14PM (#2901817) Homepage
    would know better. How often do we (meaning people in the tech industry in general) receive unwanted junk email? All the time. How often do we look at it? I don't know about everyone else, but it goes right into the virtual trash for me.

    I don't understand how tech industry people could have thought this would be any different. Perhaps they are fooling themselves about how this relates to physical paper resumes, since some employers will simply take mailed-in resumes and place them "on file" for future reference. As it is, unsolicited emails do nothing more than make the spammer look like a jackass.

    Oh, a note to the poster who said they more or less spammed employers through Monster.com. Employers in that system explicitly signed up to receive such emails, thus it can not be spamming.
  • It wouldn't be spam without using an overseas mail server to send it from.

  • Funny, but let's try to fix this (Score:5, Insightful)

    by guttentag ( 313541 ) on Friday January 25, 2002 @02:20PM (#2901864) Journal
    It's a funny article, but it could have gone a long way toward solve the problem if it had offered unemployed readers alternatives to spamming.

    The same applies to this Slashdot discussion. The people who have the technology openings people want are probably Slashdot readers (<SARCASM>who would want to work for someone who wasn't Slashdot-aware?</SARCASM>). Or perhaps you've already hired some outstanding candidate who found a way to get your attention without resorting to spam.

    So let's put the question to you:

    What's the best way for genuine, qualified, informed candidates to distinguish themselves from this rabble?
    • What's the best way for genuine, qualified, informed candidates to distinguish themselves from this rabble?

      A genuine, qualified, informed candidate will send a resume that matches the job description to the appropriate HR or Hiring Manager address, with a brief cover letter that accurately outlines why the candidate is both qualified for the job and genuinely wants the job.

      HTH.

    • I'd start by posting for advertised jobs. After that, maybe email jobs@foo.com, but only after checking the company and customizing your cover letter. Possibly a few phone calls, and some snail mail. Make sure that each email is to a single person, not to a mailing list.

      I'm sure there are other ways, but this is a start (and what I'm currently doing).
    • What's the best way for genuine, qualified, informed candidates to distinguish themselves from this rabble?

      The genuine, qualified, informed candidates will not need slashdot's help to distinguish themselves. If you do, you aren't. See you at McDonald's.
    • Know who your current employer's competitors are, dig around and find out who their key people are. Or look at your current employer's suppliers or customers. The way to find a job is to find it *before* you're unemployed, or at least have a good idea where you're going to go next.

      Believe me, if you were a key person at Boofarg Enterprises, which has Garfal Industries as a customer, and Boofarg goes titsup.com, Garfal will be overjoyed to have somebody on staff who understands Boofarg's (former) technology as well as that overall industry so that migration to somebody elses' technology can begin.

      Of course, if you worked for a dot.com with no business plan, no customers, no suppliers, no competitors (how can anybody compete against nothing? :-), then you're SOL.

      It also helps to have some Open Source credentials nowdays. I got hired on my current job because of my work on an Open Source program in a related area.

      -E

    • What's the best way for genuine, qualified, informed candidates to distinguish themselves from this rabble?

      Hack Slashdot, then brag about it. [securityfocus.com]
  • I know I've received spam resumes before.
    If someone thinks they will get work via resume spamming.. I guess that's their problem. I guess Spamford Wallace might hire them.

    I just follow my policy as with all spam: Do nothing. Delete it. Don't click on links, don't ask to be removed, and don't waste time complaining to someone. I just delete it.
    • I just follow my policy as with all spam: Do nothing. Delete it. Don't click on links, don't ask to be removed, and don't waste time complaining to someone. I just delete it.

      That's what I do too, but the one thing I do above and beyond this is to set up a filter to automatically delete mail from the sender's domain or address if I receive more than one piece of spam from the same sender. If everybody started doing this, then spammers would have a huge disincentive to send spam because they would no longer be able to send the recipient any mail at all (which they may eventually have a legitimate need to do). Yes, they could change their "From" address, but if they are attempting to masquerade as a legitimate business (you know, the types that preface their messages with "This is not spam" and have a presumably stable web presence), they will have a much harder time defending themselves in court if there is a record of their addresses jumping around. This obviously doesn't apply to all spammers, but it applies to enough for my "Trash" folder to have been automatically filled by 830 pieces of unread mail over the last three months or so.

  • The exponent factor (Score:3, Insightful)

    by sparkyz ( 256676 ) on Friday January 25, 2002 @02:28PM (#2901903) Homepage
    You know, before I fell in love with computers and the many related disciplines, I spent a lot of years in the restaurant industry, in a variety of managerial and non managerial capacities. The one service lesson that came though again and again was that one bad impression can counter-balance easily a world of good impressions. You had to treat every customer like they were the most important person in the world; and I think that's a good maxim for any business.

    That's why it was especially disconcerting to read one girl's comment in the article to the effect that if she got even one good offer, she was unconcerned about pissing off everyone else. If the first maxim is true, that one bad experience offsets a hundred or more good one's then how much exponentially worse must it be to create a hundred bad impressions on the low yield opprotunity of creating a good one. I suspect it might be alright to send someone a resume that is not necessarily solicited. After all, you never know until you try. But this means addressing a personal correspondence to a specific relevant person at your targeted company. I hope nobody gets any ideas from this.

  • No penalty? (Score:3, Informative)

    by Sloppy ( 14984 ) on Friday January 25, 2002 @02:31PM (#2901922) Homepage Journal

    "There's no penalty for trying," Sullivan said.

    When you're looking for a job, you don't think potentially getting yourself blacklisted, doesn't count as a penalty?! Even if you don't get blacklisted, you still make a bad first impression. Maybe you could have gotten a job there, but not anymore.

    When it comes to resumes, I don't think spam is a problem, precisely because it does penalize whoever does it. When someone's selling a make-money-fast scam, they've got no reputation to lose. If you're looking for a job and your resume has your real name on it, you do.

  • As spam goes, this seems less pink than grey.

    I recently sent email resumes to the HR email addresses of about 40 companies. I found the addresses by searching miscellaneous job sites for work in a particular, highly specialized field. I didn't apply for any of those specific jobs, though, for a simple reason: I'm looking for telecommuting and/or freelancing work in this field, and no major corporation that I've seen advertises telecommuting or freelance opportunities on a regular basis.

    I didn't send to any of the addresses without first going to the company's website to check out their business and their careers page, but I didn't do an exhaustive investigation of their business either.

    So, was it spam? Will they think it was spam? There's no way for them to know what my approach was ... so how can they evaluate it? Will somebody stick my name up somewhere as an example of serious evilness? (I'm especially worried about the company to whom I accidentally sent a second email 3 days after the first, because I was copying the resume from the email I had previously sent them. THAT sure makes me look like some doofus mailing to a list.)

    Incidentally, each email included a link to a detailed online resume, and the first several of them did not include a resume-in-brief within the email itself. Site logs indicate that nobody has visited the resume links.

  • Another Bernie? (Score:2, Insightful)

    by TCaptain ( 115352 )

    From the Post article:

    Still, she's not bothered by critics of spamming or those who find the tactic bothersome.
    "I really wouldn't care, if I could get somebody to see it," she said. "Maybe somebody'll see it and have a job opening."

    Do we have another Bernie on our hands?

    Man, people just don't care who they piss off anymore, as long as there's a chance that they get their way

  • Internet users, on average, received 1,470 messages from spammers in 2001, according to the research firm Jupiter/Media Metrix.

    That's only 4 spam a day. I get at least that much that slip through procmail filters on an address that's relatively unpublished. My public yahoo account gets about 20 a day. Really, where did they get 1470 on average? I have friends, who aren't so 'net saavy and post their address everywhere that get much more.

    I'm kinda curious now to see how much I'm getting. Probably less than 20 a day since it's unpublished, but I wouldn't be surprised to see at least 10 a day.

  • Resume spamming (Score:2, Flamebait)

    by jd ( 1658 )
    Spam is spam is spam. It reduces the effectiveness of communication, and obstructs quality dialog.


    Spammers should be deported to Afghanistan, where they can share the nation's one surviving 300 baud modem, in their efforts to tell the world how to get rich quick.


    If an alledged techie spams, I'd automatically assume that they were incompetent techs, simply because:

    • They were incapable of finding out sufficient information to target correctly and efficiently
    • Spamming is a known evil to techie types
    • Spamming is illegal in some parts of the world
    • They obviously don't believe they can win a job by their own merits
    • Nobody wants to hire a liability and a fool


    So people think jobs are hard to get, these days. I can remember, in England, when unemployment in some parts of the country was as high as 20%. It was about this time that Norman Tebbit (Crud Puppy's evil twin) made his infamous "get on yer bike" remarks.


    So? So, why whinge at a pathetic 5.5%? It's barely noticable! Be grateful it's not four times as severe.


    One thing I will say with techs - we CAN work our trade, without the benefit of a large-scale industry to support us. You can write perfectly good code, or design the ultimate in microprocessors with nothing more than a pencil and some paper.


    The code, if it really is any good, can become a marketable product with nothing more than a 386SX and a CD burner. It might take a while, but it can be done.


    The chip design can be loaded into any FPGA device, tested and sold to any company that produces chips on a commercial scale, or any University with the tools to press chips for their own use.


    Steelworkers need some hefty equiptment to be able to do anything. Programmers need a brain and an idea.


    Personally, I think it would be great if companies refused to hire technical workers who could not show their competency at core skills (design, implementation, testing and caving in to PHB's). A resume, really, is nothing more than bragging rights for something that everyone else has already forgotten. It would be better if such things were allowed to die.


    Computing is both an art and a science. It is not a work of fiction.

    • Spammers should be deported to Afghanistan, where they can share the nation's one surviving 300 baud modem...

      I thought Junis had upgraded to 1200 baud?

      Has JonKatz flown over and interviewed him in person yet? :)

  • This is ODD I get 1-2 calls a week ?????? (Score:3, Informative)

    by CDWert ( 450988 ) on Friday January 25, 2002 @02:49PM (#2902039) Homepage
    I havent posted a resume online in nearly 2 years. Then only to two employment sites, I dont even remeber.

    That said I get 1-2 calls a week, half of those from the principals, IBM has called directly, So has MS, they didnt READ the resume apparently, IBM became a nuiscance at one point, I asked where the hell they got my resume, they told me and I tried to track it down but to no avail.

    Why are these people who spam resumes getting no response ? Is it lack of their skill sets ? I am a competent programmer on many plattforms and a competent sysadmin when I have to (I hate that part).

    I worked at a "Dot-Com" from before they decided the Dot-Com route was the one they would take, when I started there were 10 developers, competent and a total of 17 people, some sales, some clerical. I bolted about 4 months before their crash and burn, it wasnt hard to see the writing on the wall with a burn rate like ours, we were over 100 people in a years time and STILL only had 10 ACTUAL PROGRAMMER, the rest were QA, PROJECT MANAGMENT, All kinds of other made up shit that had no room in an IT company of any worth. We never missed a deadline or dropped the ball UNTIL they started with the project managment crap.

    MY point is, All of those 80 people we hired were wholly unsuited for the IT market, those who werent have jobs and had no problems finding jobs, I left for a Higher MUCH salary amongst other reasons.

    Did any of these people think theyre not getting hired because theyre better suited to diggin ditches than IT work ????

    What they had a taste of the IT glory days and think theyre qualified and dont realize they were just warm bodies ?
    • I get 1-2 calls a week, half of those from the principals

      Where did you post your resume? I've been trying to get a job for months with no luck (and I have 10 years of experience in unix/NT/network admin, technical training, telecom, harware support, etc.). Maybe area plays a heavy factor in this, too.

      -Legion

    • That's because people like you are exactly what's wanted in IT now.

      In my area there are no beginning jobs in IT. They all require 3 years of experience in at least 4 different disciplines.

      Some of them seem to read, "We fired our IT department, and we need a guy who can do it all."

      One self declared "Entry Level" job wanted 4 years of experience!

      The reason I can't find an IT job is that I don't have years of experience. I graduated last year and have been scrounging up temp jobs to get by.

      The market is getting better, but I don't know when/if the entry-level jobs are coming back.
    • Until about this past December I would get an average of 1-2 calls and 3-4 emails a week with job openings.

      Over the last six weeks or so I've gotten a total of two calls.

  • It works... (Score:3, Troll)

    by supabeast! ( 84658 ) on Friday January 25, 2002 @02:53PM (#2902059)
    Resume spamming got me both of my last two jobs when I needed them, and it gave me something to do while I was calling people about jobs and between interviews/job fairs. It may be sleazy, but at least I can pay my rent.

  • Recruiters spam potential employees too... (Score:3, Informative)

    by gosand ( 234100 ) on Friday January 25, 2002 @02:54PM (#2902062)
    November 2000 I was looking for a job because the company I worked for went under (heard that one before?). Anyway, I registered with monster.com, and the next day I had 30 emails from recruiters. I ignored probably half of those, because the people they were looking for had NOTHING to do with the experience I had. I got calls (messages) at home about exciting opportunities that I would be perfect for. When I called them back, they were for management positions in non-tech firms.

    Bottom line - spamming sucks, no matter who is doing it.

  • spamming != mass sending of resumes (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Artifex ( 18308 ) on Friday January 25, 2002 @02:55PM (#2902070) Journal

    I think the article was referring to people who send their resume out to non-job-related mailing lists, random people they see online, or picking a bunch of inappropriate names from a corporate website. Some people seem to be confusing this with sending resumes out to all the job search engines and sending messages to all the jobs/hr@prospective.companies-type addresses. Remember that these lists and addresses are created specifically for this purpose... so it's not abusive to take advantage of them.


    (Which reminds me... I may be losing my job in a week or so... wish I could figure out why all the "internet" jobs on the search engines are for the point-and-click-FP-of-website-designer, and none for router jockeys/infrastructure engineers)

  • About 2 years ago, I was actively seeking a job. I posted my resume on Monster and some other automated resume service websites. As noted in other posts here, most of the replies I got were from headhunters -- job offers consisting of contract, part-time, or other things I was not interested in. I got NO responses from actual employers, which was what I was trying to accomplish by posting my resume on the net.

    IMHO, the best way to distribute a resume is directly to whom you're interested in working for. Can't find anyone of interest to work for? I suggest talking to as many people as possible. Since these resume services cater to headhunters, you'll never get personal interaction. Through talking to people, you can get a good idea of what is available for you.

    Presently, I still get an occasional email from my original resume posting 2 years or so back. I find it amazing that although I've taken my name off of the resume sites, I still get offers.

    Shouldn't there be some sort of premium service, or at least an option on an automated site to filter out would be head hunters? Just my 2 cents.
  • To land a good job, do the following:

    • Keep in touch with all your previous coworkers (especially the talented ones you know are going somewhere). You have a much greater chance of getting an "in" through them than through a stranger.
    • Take pride in your resume. If a job is important enough to apply for, it is worth taking a few extra moments to tailor your resume specifically for that job.
    • Create an "interview folder". In mine, I put recommendations, Visio diagrams of networks that I have set up (and am comfortable maintaining), outlines of projects that I've seen from start to completion, a disk or screenshot of web pages I've done, etc. Most of the times I don't need these things, but I come prepared in case the conversation/interview goes in that direction.
    • Ask questions back. In fact, ask difficult questions. Keep asking until you get clear answers.


    • Anyone use headhunters? I'm skeptical that they aren't as selective as they need to be.

  • I just love lazy asses (Score:3, Funny)

    by Uttles ( 324447 ) <[moc.liamg] [ta] [selttu]> on Friday January 25, 2002 @03:09PM (#2902211) Homepage Journal
    "I just didn't have a million dollars to run a commercial," he said.

    OK, so go online and submit your resume via the many various accepted methods. Just about every corporation has an ability to accept resumes, there's Monster.com, thingamajob.com, all sorts of others. There are job recruitment agencies all over the place that take online resume submissions... basically, get off your ass and work for it, don't just send your resume out to everyone and their brother and expect a kind response!

    PS - most resumes have confidential information in them, it would be great irony if these resume spammers suddenly suffered from "stolen identity."

  • Heh, I just thought of something... (Score:3, Informative)

    by Nijika ( 525558 ) on Friday January 25, 2002 @03:10PM (#2902219) Homepage Journal
    If you're in the mood to waste some cash on an experiment and you're unemployed (or you're looking for a new job), try taking out an ad via http://selfserve.osdn.com [osdn.com] and see if you get any results back.

    Actually, I'm going to try that when I get laid off.

  • 'Nuff said. The bimbo spams her resume hither and fro, then wonders why she's been unemployed for a year? Hint, air-head -- people don't want to hire spammers! Bernie Spamner sent his spam resume to me and I deleted it immediately. Your resume would get the same treatment, because even if I were an employer rather than a guy running his own ego site (hey, gotta be honest here!), I wouldn't hire spammers.
  • From the Article:
    Still, she's not bothered by critics of spamming or those who find the tactic bothersome.

    "I really wouldn't care, if I could get somebody to see it," she said. "Maybe somebody'll see it and have a job opening."

    I really don't care about offending others... as long as I get the job

    I really don't care about causing traffic delays by cutting people off... as long as I can get there faster

    I really don't care about causing pollution... as long as I can make more money

    I really don't care about trampling the rights of the innocent... as long as we can punish the guilty

    The funniest thing is how loud people complain about others being selfish...

    OBFun: Go to local grocery store. Cut in front of line. When someone complains say "Why can we do it on the freeway but not here?" Watch them fizzle.

  • The Zen of Job Discovery (Score:2, Informative)

    by yndrd ( 529288 )
    Apparently there is some passive Zen thing to getting jobs, at least for me: every time someone successfully hired me it was because they were looking for me, not the other way around. By posting to various services like Monster [monster.com] and NOT doing the one-click resume sending thing, I've gotten more calls than I ever did by sending resumes to them actively, even in response to their own ads.

    My best success has been from just informing them I'm available, either by website or by listing on job sites. Apparently there's something to be said for the confidence of passivity and not seeming to want it too much.

    I'm sure there was a time long ago when aggressive tactics like resume spamming and showing up at offices was appealing (especially in the glad-handling sales world), but now it just seems creepy. It is no longer a benefit to seem desperate.

  • Another failed buisness model. (Score:3, Funny)

    by sporty ( 27564 ) on Friday January 25, 2002 @03:49PM (#2902509) Homepage
    Apparently this guy thought wrong:

    1. Spam resume
    2.
    3. Profit!

    Maybe he'll figure out 2 someday.
  • Someone spammed me a resume. I replied back that if they wanted a position as webmaster, they should read thw 'Shiffman is a moron spammer' page about a moron who sends out his resume as spam... and that if he wrote me again, I'd bill him for the time to download and read his mails, minimum three hours a day, hundred bucks an hour. I haven't heard back since.

  • The REAL problem is the current way jobs are .... (Score:4, Informative)

    by Skapare ( 16644 ) on Friday January 25, 2002 @04:29PM (#2902876) Homepage

    The REAL problem is the current way jobs are found, or rather, NOT found. And this existed during the peak of the bubble, making it hard for employers to find good people even though many good people existed looking for work even at that time. That problem is that connecting between employer and employee candidates is so ineffective.

    Job boards are the rage. But they have only a small percentage of the jobs. Most of the jobs on the boards are posted by professional recruiters and their firms. But the majority of job openings are not listed there because they are not sent to recruiters. These are "less crucial" openings that don't justify the cost of a headhunter, which can be as much as the employee's full first year salary. And most businesses simply don't want to deal with the hassle and cost of posting all their own job openings on all the job boards. It costs a few thousand to post a single job opening to all the major job boards (there are too many of them).

    A better designed job board would help. Doing searches on skills, job functions, and other criteria is in many just a cheap string search. And in those few that do more than a string search, they are often limited to listing just skills alone, instead of also other things like what job function roles one is looking for, or needs. I remember getting calls many times for someone to do a programming job in C++ even though I was only open to network management work. The reason was that I have nearly 20 years experience programming in C (not C++), and some board lumped C and C++ together, and never took into account that this was merely a skill and not what I was actually looking to do. I wonder how many potential employers skipped over my online profile just because I looked like a programmer to them (when searching candidates on these boards, employers see profiles first, and have to take extra steps to see the actual resume).

    Then there is the fee to post a job. And the fee to view resumes. While the job boards do need to make money these days (especially considering their investors want to see a return on investment), this still remains a big obstacle to getting jobs listed. Some industry analysts say there are nearly a million job openings in high tech even now; a figure I have some doubts about, but I can't totally discard the possibility because I know the vast majority of them won't be posted on the big boards, even if the market was booming (and certainly not during a recession).

    It sure would be a big plus to people looking for work if there was a totally free board (free to post a job, free to post a resume, free to search jobs, and free to search resumes). I've even suggested that employers wanting to hire people on H-1B visas should be required to post on the major boards for 3 months before applying to grant the visa, and a free super job board might even make that viable (and get more Americans back to work at American companies ... and maybe similar in other countries, as I hear Germany has a problem similar to H-1B). The problem will be paying for such a board (bandwidth isn't free, now), and advertising probably doesn't cut it anymore.

  • Back in college I worked for a desktop publishing/copy/printing company and one of things we did was prepare resume packages for people, including mail-merged cover letters. We would type and copy the resume with cover letters for something like $30 for 20 copies. We had a guy come in who was graduating from vet school and he wanted to be a Kentucky race horse vet, so he obtained a mailing list of every horse breeder in Kentucky and paid us to type in the list (he didn't have it in electronic format) and generate over 200 resumes with mail merged cover letters then mailed all 200+ of them. It cost him a few hundred dollars and out of 200 mailings, he got like 20 offers and just picked the best one. I think that in my career, I've maybe submitted 20 resumes and got three different jobs from them.

  • How Headhunters work. (Score:2, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward
    I used to work for DICE in my younger days, and having supported many a non-techinical technical recruiter I have the following to report...

    1) MOST recruiters usually do not care about anything other than adding your resume to their database. This is why the 'Laundry List' job add exists in today's newspapers.

    2) Any job that is vague about the position is usually bogus. Look for postings that contain detailed job/project information.

    3) If you meet a scummy recruiter (think slimy used car salesman), or someone who does not appear to be on the up and up about the position with you, go somewhere else.

    I used a recruiter to find my current job, but I only contacted those that I rememberd being rather reliable people from my contacts in working for the company.

    There are a lot of short-term or fly-by-night recruiting agencies created by MCSE's, or programmers who couldn't hack it.

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