Spammer Gets Spammed 389
William L. Jones sent us a link to a wired story about spammers getting what they deserve: it amused me. What also amuses me is my new hobby:
I now send the postage-page envelopes back from junk mailers. Empty. Eat that! 30 cents out of your pocket! Yeah! I guess now that we've evolved past sword fights, I need something to vent steam.
Re:Remember... (Score:4)
Kintanon
Don't send empties (Score:2)
For phone soliciters, passing them off just isn't fun. You've gotta play with them for a while first. I usually give them a quiz about their product/service they'd like to sell (throwing in my own made up words as I go along) and see how well they do. Usually, they hang up before me
As for the spammers, those bastards got what was coming to them.
Re:Awesome link! (Score:2)
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Yeah, yeah (Score:3)
Note that this is probably not "an eye for an eye", in that nobody spammed them specifically to punish them for their previous spammer-friendly behavior; it appears that they just got buried in a normal spam run, the same kind of spam run that originates from their network all too frequently.
This is more akin to a policeman on the night watch who parks his squad car and takes an illicit nap, finding on waking that somebody stole his tires. There is a certain poetic justice that's less "an eye for an eye" than "what goes around, comes around".
Few would vote for raping the rapist, but equally few will shed tears for the rapist who, in spite of our efforts to prevent rape, is raped by a bigger, meaner rapist. Buddhists work to end the suffering of all sentient beings, but that doesn't mean they can't appreciate the beautiful symmetry of karmic balance.
How is it morally bankrupt? (Score:2)
And of course the Golden Rule is also reflected in Kant's Categorical Imperitive. When deciding if something is ethical, ask yourself "what if everybody did it?"
And another reflection: Axelrod's work on the Prisoner's Dilemma. Someone who knows the phrase "Lex Talionis" has probably heard about this, so I'll leave you with this unexplained remark: Tit for Tat won.
Philosophers and scientists agree, an eye for an eye is OK and workable. Get into the 21st Century, man.
--
MailOne [openone.com]
empty? wuss... (Score:2)
35 cents out of their pockets, plus whoever unstuffs those envelopes gets a lapful of shredded paper. or, better yet, if they're done by machine, maybe my little act of revenge clogs up their cogs for a few minutes, and in the meantime, the machinery of junkmailing grinds to a halt.
i can dream, can't i?
Send Them Porn (Score:2)
Once Again, FYI (Score:2)
JunkMail Removal Info [talboa.com]
=-=-=-=-=
"Do you hear the Slashdotters sing,
Re:Junk mail subsidizes first class mail (Score:3)
Other types of mail income are used to offset these costs. 2nd class postage is a great example: a new subdivision called "Priority 2nd Class" has been given to monstrous magazines (think: U.S. News, Time, etc) To get their business, the USPS has given special treatment and costs, while those not qualifying (any magazine/newspaper under a zillion subscribers) have seen significant increase in postage. Example: 14% increase every other year. The post office has made it clear that these types of mailers are a hindrance, and a pain in the ass to the USPS. They would rather deliver sorted pallets by the truckload than break it down further.
On a smaller scale you'll see the same with 1st class. It's harder for the USPS to do this, because every citizen is affected by increases in 1st class mail, while only publishers are affected by 2nd class increases...Fewer people can complain..and so the raping of 2nd class continues.
Anyway, in the beginning, the USPS was in business to deliver your personal mail. As they grew, and tried to take more money, get more customers (Like all the dirty tricks they used to (and still do) against UPS) and allow bulk mail, etc, etc, they have since had to buy more facilities, more equipment, and many many many more employees. As they continue to make better bottom lines on large customers, they will continue to abhor your mail and mine. Our costs will increase. Eventually the cost will make us cut down our mailing. It already has. How many stamps can you get for $1. Ooops, not even 3 now.
I remember back in the '80s, once a month, letter mail that used to take 1 day to get here, took 2 days instead. What was going on? Turned out that it was all related to the day the new Playboy issue came out. Playboy paid a cheap automation rate that covered the automation costs of the USPS, but it was our 1st class mail that suffered, and paid for the extra employees and leg work that was needed.
Rader
Re:Dude, evolve some more (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Remember... (Score:4)
a buddy of mine: "oh really? well let me tell *you* about the *great* anal sex I had last night" ... click.
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Re:Remember... (Score:2)
I love to ask questions like these to telemarketers and refuse to tell them who they are speaking with unless they first tell me who they are. Unfortunately, they usually hang up before you can get your questions answered. That is why I wish there was some way to tell where they were calling from and who was calling. Telemarketers should be forced to use Caller ID that spans all phone companies so you never see the "Out of Area" message on your Caller ID display just because the telemarketer has another phone provider or is in another state. That's my $0.02.
Re:Postage-paid (Score:2)
Remember that the USPS makes a profit on delivering that postage-paid card. You're helping employ that postal employee
I disagree that Lex Talionis is... (Score:2)
So what you're saying is that it is more humane to lock people away from 'normal' people, congregating them amongst a brutish populace administered by people who must for their own protection assume the worst of those they supervise, for an arbitrary amount of time determined by how much money they had and how well-spoken their attorney was and perhaps how politically distasteful their crime was.
No, I'm sorry. What you're saying is that we should realize that the perpetrator of the crime is a victim who must be treated and trained and assisted, who must be understood when they backslide and recommit the crime because of course the treatment is still in process, that we should not use punishment because it is damaging to the psyche - and of course the victims of the crime (other than the criminal victim) will have to recover as best they can without the cathartic closure of punishment but will have to gain strength from the knowledge that their pain was the first step to the recovery of another human being.
As opposed to a swift, certain, relevant punishment which provides the catharsis and the preventive measure, which can then be followed with treatments for both committer and victim of the crime.
What kind of giddy moral superiority do you get from assuming I like to see people hurt?
Re:Empty (Score:2)
Be sure to put something in the envelope. Confetti or paper chips are good, they can jam up the machine. Crumpled paper won't stack neatly in their machines. Small metal strips will jam the envelope slitting machine but since most machines slit the top and since the envelopes can be inserted either face up or face down, you have to tape a metal strip inside the envelope at both the top and bottom to be successful. Use brass or aluminum, they check for magnetic metal and reject those envelopes. You can also tape a bunch of papers to the envelope, it makes it so the machine can't separate the papers from the envelope.
(Info from a friend who used to work at one of these places.)
Re:Lex Talionis is a morally bankrupt code (Score:2)
Re:Remember... (Score:2)
Re:Remember... (Score:2)
Convince me that there are NO other choices for this person and maybe I'll listen to you play the violin a while.
If you take a job telemarketing, you KNOW that you're doing something to inconvenience them. There is ZERO sympathy deserved by these people, regardless of how little they earn.
I usually leave telemarketers off with something along the lines of, "Hey, buddy - is this really what you wanted to do when you grew up? Put me on your no-call list."
To digress - word to the wise: the wording you should use is "put me on your don't call list," not "take me off your call list." Telemarketers are required to keep a list of numbers not to call. Taking you OFF the list just means that you're not getting called again this cycle... which they wouldn't have done anyway.
Photo of someones arse (Score:2)
When I was at uni in England the T.V. Licensing Board kept sending me nasty letters telling me to buy a T.V. License, despite the fact we already had one for the address. Eventually we got such a photo (which a friend had kindly left on a housemates camera that was laying around during a house party) and sent it to them in their reply paid envelope.
Fighting Back: At War With Telemarketers (Score:2)
Click here to read it [sexcowairlines.com].
IRNI
Expansion on CmdrTaco's idea (Score:2)
Here's a way to make that method even better: instead of sending back the envelopes empty (which I assume you are doing), stuff them. Preferably, stuff them with some heavy objects. That way, it'll cost more than 30 cents to get them sent back.
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Check in...OK! Check out...OK!
Re:Stupid and persistent (Score:2)
Re:Dude, evolve some more (Score:2)
In Canada I understand this to be untrue - ANYTHING with an address and put in a PostOffice Box MUST be delivered - no matter what it is. Im almost certain its federal law. This is why you can send mail without a stamp - it still gets delivered.
Oh - and I do the same thing with them, ive mailed shoeboxes filled with dirt
Re:Remember... (Score:2)
And that's all good with me. I haven't a significant beef with the employees. I've had shitty jobs from time to time when hungry enough so I appreciate their position.
Just so long as I get to slow them down.
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Re:How is it morally bankrupt? (Score:2)
That is a truly ridiculous argument for "an- eye-for-an-eye", mate. Do you think it is ethical for you to go down to the market for a bottle of Pepsi? Well, according to the Categorical Imperitive, no, because if EVERYONE when down to the market anarchy would ensue with riots and murders leading to pitched battles as the supplies of Pepsi dwindled, and could eventually lead to the downfall of Western Civilization. Give a break.
As for your, er, analysis of the Prisoner's dilemma, "tit for tat" maximizes only the two prisoner's COLLECTIVE expected utility. The best result for a given prisoner is to sell out the other prisoner given that the other prisoner doesn't talk. That's why it's called a dilemma, mate. Tit for Tat did NOT win, because if you believe the other prisoner is honest, you can screw him and do better for yourself than if you were honest.
I am a scientist and I don't believe an eye for an eye is OK or workable. We live in an obstensibly civilized society, and to forgive is divine.
The best mailing list there is for junk mail (Score:2)
Yes, this is the list you can submit your name and address to indicate that you don't want to receive unsolicited commercial postal mail. And to some extent it will cut down on certain types of regular junk mail.
But my old boss at Working Software [working.com], Dave Johnson, who wrote the chapter on direct mail in The High-Tech Marketing Companion [fatbrain.com], says that the Mail Preference Service has the very highest response rate of all - for certain kinds of product offers.
(For a long period of time Working Software made most of its sales through direct mail, and Dave became quite an expert on direct mail. This was after he nearly went bankrupt listening to "channel people".)
What kind of product offers sell through this list?
Studded dog collars, burglar alarms, personal security devices, gun magazines and in general products that are aimed at people who are concerned with personal security and just want to be left alone.
Being on the DMA opt-out list doesn't actually prevent you from receiving mail. Instead, members who care to bother (usually because they don't want to waste money sending mail to people who won't respond) get the list periodically and use it to prune their in-house lists. So for lists whose owners bother to go to the trouble, you will be taken off some lists.
But studded dog-collar vendors just take the list and print up mailing labels!
Michael D. Crawford
GoingWare Inc
Re:Lex Talionis is a morally bankrupt code (Score:2)
The irony is simply amusing, that's all.
Re:Remember... (Score:2)
Re:Remember... (Score:5)
Me: "May I ask your name?"
Telemarketer: "Joe...I have a great dea..."
Me: "May I ask your last name Joe?"
Telemarketer: "I don't see why you'd need that."
Me: "May I remind you that under FCC regulation you are required to state your first and last name upon request?"
Telemarketer: "..I didn't know that...Joe Doe."
Me: "Then I guess I can inform you that it is your employer's responsibility to inform you of FCC regulations, and that if you're going to making these calls, the FCC requires you to know these regulations. If your employer does not inform you of the regulations, they are committing a felony. May I ask your employers name?"
Telemarketer: "Wow... I didn't know that. I work for Credit Card Company X."
Me: "Joe, I asked YOUR employer. You work for a telemarketing firm, not a credit card company."
Telemarketer: "I'm not allowed to tell you that.
Me: "Then I may remind you that under FCC regulation that you MUST state your employer's name as well as your immediate supervisor's name upon request."
Me: "Furthermore, if I request to be added to your 'Do not call' list, you MUST add me to the list. If your employer is not keeping a list, they are subject to fines up to $500,000, and I am entitled to a $500 voucher."
Telemarketer: "Sir, I just called to ask..."
Me: "You never stated your employers name. Please don't commit a felony, Joe."
Telemarketer: "Phone Services X."
Me: "Please add me to your do not call list. If I get a call from Phone Services X within the next 5 years, I will hold you, Joe Doe, and your employer, Phone Services X, responsible. I will contact the FCC and you will be prosecuted."
*click*
Re:before the web... (Score:2)
So far he's already been pre-approved for 3 platinum credit cards based on his excellent credit record.
Postage-paid (Score:2)
If the postage was *already* paid, the only thing you are costing them is the annoyance of having to open your worthless mail (AFAIK, they pay whether or not you actually use the prepaid envelope). Of course this, in itself, is probably worth it. However, I would feel sorry for the poor postal employees that now have to send junk mail *both* ways.
Re:Don't just send them empty! (Score:2)
- Little plastic army men.
- Out of focus photographs.
- Change. (Costing more in postage than it's worth)
- Lettuce.
- A printed warning about the Goodtimes virus.
One more to add to your list
- Used condom
Re:Jeovah (was Re:Remember...) (Score:3)
A friend of mine gave me a very simple approach to get to leave temporiarily: Answer the door with your phone in your hand.
For a more permanant solution, answer the door with the lower receiver of your AR-15 in one hand, and your cleaning cloth in the other.
I actually did a variant of this once: I lived in an apartment with an exterior landing that was shared with another apartment. In that other apartment lived (as near as I could tell) a large number of jail-bait teenybobbers who thought they were God's gift to the universe. They would
(Before anybody makes the obvious comment: I don't mess with jailbait.)
One day, my friends and I had gone shooting at one of their farms, and we had returned to my place to clean the weapons. The teeny's were doing their usual, hanging around being in everybody's way.
Funny, how people get out of your way when you have a rifle over one shoulder, a shotgun in one hand, an ammo can in the other, and have two holsters on your belt.
After the six of us had each made three trips from the cars, and had finally finished carrying the firearms into the apartment, and had started on the reflex weapons (longbows, crossbows, etc.), the teeny's disappeared into their apartment.
Funny, ever since then the aways got out of our way, never bothered my friends or me, and kept their music at a reasonable level....
Re:Remember... (Score:3)
telemarketer : Let me tell you about our new deal which allows you to pay multiple credit card bills on one monthly bill, while we take a 50% cut.
You : Wow, that sounds like a GREAT deal. I can't believe it. Honey, come here and listen to this.
telemarketer : Yes, all we have to do now is get all your credit card information, including card number and expiration date.
You : This is a great deal, tell me how to sign up. I can't wait to reap the rewards!
Keep it up, and just like politicians, just avert all questions leading for information with remarks of how great a deal it is. Eventually either the telemarketer gets frustated and hangs up, or you get bored. Sometimes the telemarketers even laugh and voluntarily let you go.
Or you can just follow the information at the JunkBuster's telemarketing-reduction page [junkbusters.com].
Dude, evolve some more (Score:3)
--
MailOne [openone.com]
giving back (Score:2)
recipient_info__date@my.com
If that address ever gets spammed, I send an email to the person who gave out my address thanking them for the spam and informing them that they can have the rest of it. Then I permanently redirect that address to some permanent email address of theirs (like sales@ or service@) so they can deal with the consequences of their actions (and I no longer have to).
For telemarkerters:
tell the insurance folks you're immortal
tell the newspaper folks you're illiterate
tell the telephone folks you're telepathic
tell anyone else that you're in the middle of some satisfying goatsex, and that they can piss off unless they're Natalie Portman and want to hear the goat bleat.
Tragedy (Score:2)
No, not that UUNET fell over- the fact that it got back up :(
Re:Some useful techniques for fighting spamsters (Score:2)
How long have you held your WCOM stock? If it's long enough to be able to make a shareholder's proposal, please consider doing so.
There are probably some folks at MAPS who would very much like to talk to you.
Re:Jeovah (was Re:Remember...) (Score:2)
You're close - the Anglicized version would be "Jehovah's Witnesses".
I did carry on a brief doctrinal discussion with a Jehovah's Witness to try and explain why I'm not a Christan. It was rough going. A JW isn't interested in hearing you say you've made a rational decision that their religion isn't for you, because reason doesn't really enter into it.
The best story I know on this subject involves a friend of a friend, who was actually working as a butcher at the time. Upon being forewarned that the witnesses were canvassing their block, he put his apron on and grabbed the biggest knife he could find. When they showed up, he threw open the door, and shouted back to his wife with glee - "Sarah! Guess what! More Christians!"
They didn't come back.
First Step (Score:2)
Some useful techniques for fighting spamsters (Score:2)
Forward the spam, with All Headers visible (different choices on browsers), to:
uce@ftc.gov
Secondly, if it is an attempt to solicit money for supposed investment purposes, it's the SEC's job to police these babies. Go to www.sec.gov [sec.gov] and find the email address of your regional SEC office. Mine, for example, is sanfrancisco@sec.gov, but yours may differ. Then forward, with All Headers visible, the spam you get concerning investments (usually fraudulent) to that email address.
Why make the government do the work? Because until enough people complain and help all those Level 9 operatives, nothing will be done.
If using PINE, then just bounce the email to that address.
Also, always forward to the abuse@yourisp.com (or abuse-nonverbose@yourisp.com if they're smart) any such emails. And any legitimate ISPs (hint, not wierd ones, they may be spam collector sites) along the trail the email came. This helps them shut down those loopholes.
Most of my spam mail originates from a uu.net address. Which is kind of ironic, cause I own 400 shares of Worldcom, who own UU.NET in the first place. If something isn't done soon, I'm filing a shareholder's proposal at the next Annual Meeting
Jeovah (was Re:Remember...) (Score:2)
Bt I got rid of mine indefinatelly, Ibeleive, as it's been a whole year and a half since their last visit.
The last one to knock on my door, I actually invited him for the post-dinner (supper) tea and dessert. My girlfriend was furious, but now is happy of the outcome.
I actually had their "blue book" at had (a gift of a friend of mine, that came to that very same diner for the occasion). This book is the definitive know-it-all book of answers for the doubtfull. They give this book to people they think have bought their story, to reel them into the boat.
After a lengthy (3hour) evening, I ended up ending the discussion by throwing the blue book (mine) into the fireplace. Ever seen Fahrenheit 451?
Beatty ran out my place, while I was reminding him my mortgage was for another 21 years.
It was mean, but worth it!
Karma karma karma karma karmeleon: it comes and goes, it comes and goes.
Re:Remember... (Score:2)
For example, yesterday a tele-girl called me asking to speak to an adult woman. My reply:
I used to be a woman, but now I am a man. I used to have a woman, but she's with another man. I would like for you to be my new woman. - shocked silence, quick "I'm sorry to bother you, bye".
Another one tried to sell me discount coupon book to my local mall. I calmly started inquiring about whether she's informed if there are any BDSM items I can purchase and at what cost. Poor thing was on the phone with me learning the intricacies of my questions for over half an hour and hung up in tears.
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Leonid S. Knyshov
Junkbusters works well getting rid of junk mail (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
before the web... (Score:5)
he finally started saying "Oh, you need to talk to the corporate office, and ask for Mr. Wolf."
Of course, he gave them the ph. number of the local zoo...
non existent persons (Score:2)
But my favorite of all time is from the late 80's. I'd just set up my practice (which is why I can place it), and was talking to my grandmother. She was living in the house she was born in, and received a letter addressed to her father. Seems he was pre-approved for a gold card due to his excellent credit--never mind that he'd been dead for over half a century . . .
now how in the world did *that* one get into the system??? 19th century birth records? death certificates? 1920's electrical bills? oh, wait, the house would have still been gas at that point . . .
Re:Remember... (Score:2)
This is when they usually hang up.
Re:First Step (Score:2)
Re:Junk mail subsidizes first class mail (Score:2)
Re:Remember... (Score:2)
Re:Don't just send them empty! (Score:2)
Re:Credit card/solicitation calls (Score:3)
Recording, disclosure of do-not-call requests:
If a person or entity making a telephone solicitation (or on whose behalf a solicitation is made) receives a request from a residential telephone subscriber not to receive calls from that person or entity, the person or entity must record the request and place the subscriber's name and telephone number on the do-not-call list at the time the request is made.
[junkbusters.com]
This seems to say that even if they have some processing to do, they are liable the instant you notify them. Try quoting this section to them and see how they respond.
the problem with that notion (Score:2)
This "desparate person" is yharming other people to collect his minimum wage. That *does* make him a lousy person and a zit upon society's posterior.
gee, MORE spam from UUNet? (Score:2)
Gee, could this be because of the size of UUNet and it's placement as a backbone provider?
It's like saying, "According to a recent survey, AOL has more novice users than all other ISP's combined".
Re:Other proven uses of post-paid envelopes and ca (Score:2)
I grew up in logging communities. Certain types of wood are only useful for paper production, so I don't know that I buy your statement. Kind of like when people keep saying logging at alpine levels will grow back - it's the topsoil destruction that makes it take 100 years for even partial regrowth. I know, I've logged at such heights. Used to spend my summers, as a boy, floating around Kootenay Lake (in Kaslo, B.C., Canada) on logs, which is really cool.
However, you are correct that almost all trees are used for various purposes. I've made shakes and shingles from redwoods, used cottonwoods (wet buggers) for firewood (long drying period for those). A lot of B.C. trees are used for chopsticks, actually.
But decreased demand is still decreased demand.
Stupid and persistent (Score:2)
email services, which I advertise on my home page, along with my phone
number. He wants to make sure that I've got a reliable connection,
because he keeps losing his Internet connection. I ask him why. He
says that his Internet providers keep kicking him off, accusing him of
spam. "But it's legal by federal law and by my state to send
unsolicited advertising". I hang up on him.
He's so stupid that he doesn't get it the first time. He calls back.
I know it's him because I've got caller ID. I pick up the receiver
and drop it.
He's not only stupid, he's persistent. He calls back a third time,
and I give him the finger again.
Stupid spammers.
-russ
Re:Dude, evolve some more (Score:2)
Re:Don't just send them empty! (Score:2)
Man, I have to find a site to purchase those in bulk...
Re:Remember... (Score:2)
Re:spam fighting (Score:5)
get your correction right :) (Score:2)
Re:Nice way to screw the post office (Score:2)
However, in the US the junk mailers get a better rate than everyone else since the 1st class mail subsidizes the junk mail. That would make the US post office a target of the gillter idea. If they find out enough people are going to take out their million dollar machines every few days due to this junk mail, It might get a point accross but most likely would lead to arrest.
So do something positive (but annoying) (Score:3)
One Mormon guy I know starts telling telemarketers about his religious beliefs -- annoying, yes, but at worst he's annoying, and at best he can hope he's changing someone's life. So why not try evangelizing YOUR favorite cause, religion, book, band, or whatever you think might make the world a better place!
TELEMARKETER: I'm calling to inform you about HomeSelect, a brand new program from MegaCard...
YOU: That's great! You know, I have something I'm really excited about too -- have you ever used the open source text editor vim? I've been using things like BBEdit and CodeWrite for a while, but vim is amazing.
(And now the question is, who will flame me first? People who don't like Mormonism? People who don't like vim? BBEdit Bigots? CodeWrite haters? I love slashdot! )
--
Re:Junk mail subsidizes first class mail (Score:2)
You on the other hand, must work for the government, or on crack if you say "Self-sufficient" "Cut costs" and "Post office" in the same sentence.
There are 10 times the number of small post offices compared to large post offices. Only the entry point of large periodicals start at large BMC's.
No one argues that pre-sorted mail is faster and cheaper to sort than non-sorted mail. Einstein! But the money saved from the automation process decreases every year as the technology margin narrows, while the cost of processing non-sorted mail increases, due to human labor, increases mail weight, etc. Your logic is similar to a car race...where you say you're gaining on this guy 10% faster, because you're driving 55mph instead of 50mph, but he's still going 70mph.
I don't "SAVE 10%" of my money when I buy a bag of chips that says "10% more FREE!" when the weight is the same and the cost is the same from the day before.
This supposed 8% report you made up is just one-sided numbers. They don't take these "million$ saved" and subsidize the 1st-class stamp...it goes back into the system to purchase more automation machines, build new Bulk Mail Centers, new semis for transport, more carriers to handle the increase in mail. Unfortunately it is impossible to draw the line where costs are afflicted, so an increase in new mail carriers might get attributed to 1st-class, so maybe the stamp has to be raised a penny.
Well over 1/2 my mail is junk mail. If I'm a typical John Doe, then multiply that out. You're trying to say that this increase in all our junk mail has somehow saved them money over-all just because it was presorted?
You are correct, pallets of bundled, zip+4 magazines never crossed my mind, since all mail qualifying for automation have 11-digit delivery point zip codes.
Re:non existent persons (Score:2)
But his death preceded the entry of such information into databases . . . He and my grandmother were in their 20's, I believe, when they built theplace after the earthquake.
But it changed hands, probably twice--I assume that it passed to his widow, and it was purchased from my great-grandmother's estate by my grandmother and grandfather . . .
Re:Spam does suck (Score:2)
Continue on with "let me tell you about a great business opportunity. Ever heard of Amway?"....
(And if you're actually in Amway, who knows, you might pick up another distributer.)
Postage-paid envelopes have surcharges (Score:2)
(This was verified at www.usps.gov)
Other proven uses of post-paid envelopes and cards (Score:5)
What we did was go to all the libraries and workplaces we could, gather all the postage-paid subscription cards, and write various different economic messages, asking the magazines and software companies to use recycled paper for some of their material. For software companies, it was the manuals; for magazines it was just the insert cards (paper plants to produce clay-content magazine picture quality paper did not exist in North America at the time).
One of the reasons it worked was we had a limited targetted message asking for something that was not only acheivable, but was cheaper too.
For some of these we made stamps to stamp all the cards. Then when our group had collected a few thousand of the cards, we'd send off bundles of 100 or so in different mailboxes throughout the city. For a period of five to ten days. Which meant that thousands of these postage-paid cards would flood the target for weeks on end, from various places, and various people, all at the cost of the magazine which published them.
As a result, a number of positive things happened. Magazines started to send only three or four of those post-paid insert cards in the magazine (before we'd get 20-30 per issue, which kept falling out). They started using recycled paper for the inserts, and sometimes even the magazine (e.g. Science News). And software manuals started being printed on recycled paper.
And since demand for recycled paper increased ten-fold, new non-chlorine recycled paper plants were built in the US and Canada, saving untold forests from being logged.
Re:Nice way to screw the post office (Score:2)
You put the sparklies in the envelope. The
envelope stays closed until it gets to the
junk mailer?
Then, when the junk mailer opens it, it gets
all over HIS sorters, not those of the post
office?
Re:Remember... (Score:2)
"Hi, I'm calling from (insert name of newspaper here)..."
"But... I can't read."
"Hi, I'm calling from (inser name of church here)..."
"But... I worship Satan"
"Hi, I'm calling from Microsoft..."
"(click!)"
0.30 wasted.. (Score:2)
Wait wait - Ive dont the same thing.. many times (after I had my name 'listed' to be removed from the Canadian Direct Marketers Association list.. lost the info on how to do this, but im sure it is around.)
What you HAVE to do is just tape your envelope to a brick, or a 12" log, or a shoebox filled with sand, or some other very HEAVY things - why waste only 0.30 of their dollars when you can waste MUCH more...
Think of all the money lost.... (Score:2)
I propose to Ashcroft that we create an ASDS (Score:2)
I wonder if all those rolling blackouts in CA will have any effect on the quantify of spam I receive via e-mail.
And, I like the idea of sending back the prepaid mailers attached to something heavy. Most of that type of mail goes unopened in my house anyway...never thought to send it back at them.
To deal with telemarketers, you can tell them to put you on their no-call list. They typically have sixty days to get you off their lists. After that, you can sue them AND collect $500 per call (I think that's right). Just document the calls and build an audit trail.
Finally, if you have caller ID, if it says unavailable or private, then take that to mean your status as well. If its important, they'll leave a message.
RD
If only everyone were like me.... (Score:4)
The point is not to piss off the telemarketer, that's just fortuitous. The point is to take up as much time on a fruitless call as possible.
Telemarketers' business models depend on their getting through the negative calls in as little time as possible. That is, they *depend* on us snarling and hanging up on them. If instead, the custom were to chat with them indefinitely, the business would become unprofitable, because they couldn't cycle through the negative calls quickly enough to get to a profitable margin of positives. In a polite society, telemarketing doesn't work.
Re:Nice way to screw the jumk mailers (Score:2)
Re:Pre-paid envelopes? (Score:2)
Rader
Re:ineffective (Score:2)
Magazines don't have 6 pre-paid postals in each magazine...at 500,000 to 1,000,000 magazines ---already paid for. That would be a ridiculous cost of something that only gets less than 1% used. (or whatever the stat is) They could give the magazine away at that cost!!!!!!!!
Yes, they pay to get an account, pay an annual or per-issuance cost, meet a minimum, and THEN pay for each USED one. It's all barcoded to their account or OCR'd, and tracked that way. Pre-paid postcards or envelopes must follow VERY strict guidelines ranging from size, paper, and positioning to make sure they are completely usable through the automative process.
Rader
Re:Don't just send them empty! (Score:2)
This is probably illegal, and I don't recommend you do it.
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Re:before the web... (Score:2)
Then of course there's the Seinfeld response: "Gee, I'm kind of busy right now. Tell you what -- why don't you give me your home number, and I'll call you while you're having dinner, and we can talk all about it." Strangely enough, they never seem to take to that idea. Can't imagine why... :)
Helpful Checklist (Score:2)
The company I work for sends out large, somewhat plain, letters on behalf of people's employers. People aren't specifically expecting a letter from XX corp and assume it's junkmail. We get this empty return trick sometimes, often with some funny profanity on the envelope.
2) Don't put anything in the envelope.
Sometimes, people put junkmail inside our return envelopes. They think it will increase the postage bill, but I think the return is a flat rate (I don't know, I'm not in the mail room). The thing is that every once in a while people accidentally send us credit card applications and/or statements. One woman sent us some private insurance documents. Less trustworthy people might do bad things with these.
Just trying to help
-B
Re:Remember... (Score:2)
IANAL but it seems like a2 would make it illegal.
Junkbusters [junkbusters.com] has good information about telemarketers and protecting yourself.
Lex Talionis is a morally bankrupt code (Score:2)
Lex Talionis, the principle of an eye for an eye, is a morally bankrupt code of law we've been moving away from for the past few thousand years, thankfully. It can't deal with the complexities of the modern legal order, and it ignores all proper justifications for systems of punishment: rehabilitation, prophylaxis, etc. It makes an assertion of rigid judgment in an attempt to avoid judgment itself. We can't live in a world without judgment.
Ask yourself this: should we rape the rapist? If not, why not? (Ignore for a moment that we essentially do rape rapists by committing them to so-called "maximum security" prisons where they get systematically brutalized and raped by guards and other inmates.) It's not a morally tenable position to lower ourselves to the level of brutes just so we can vindicate some idea of retribution.
Therefore, ask yourself why we should be happy when the spammer gets spammed? No one should have to endure the pain and annoyance of spam: it's the scurge of the online world. Not even the spammer, who may be in his business because of factors outside his control like debt or bills for an illness in the family, etc. We should be outraged when anyone is spammed, and we should put the full force of the state and the law against the perpetrator no matter who the victim! Picking and choosing among which victims to protect is something the legal order of former barbaric times did. I'd be disgusted if our government returned to those days.
Spam == bad. Victimization == bad. Why do people conflate the two? What kind of giddy moral superiority to you get from seeing anyone hurt?
Re:Remember... (Score:5)
The same can't be said for spammers, though, since they typically are self-employed jerks...
Re:spam fighting (Score:2)
Next time, look at the email headers at the connection that delivered to your mail server. Try to identify the ISP identified by the ip address and deliver your message to abuse@ISP.
Re:Dude, evolve some more (Score:2)
You're full of shit. I live in Toronto, and occasionally I've forgotten to put a stamp on an envelope. I get it back in my mailbox a day or so later with a big "Return To Sender" sticker on it with a transparent backing material. There's text on the label saying to put more/proper postage on the letter, peel the big sticker off (leaving the clear backing layer on the envelope), and remail it.
However, if you put YOUR address in the main "to" area, and THEIR address in the "from" area, put no postage on it, and drop it in a mailbox, it MIGHT get there, complete with the "Return To Sender" sticker, if the post office doesn't catch on. They sometimes assume that it mistakenly got that far in the system without a stamp, and promptly send it "back".
--
One of my all-time favorites (Score:2)
Me: What has a 1-inch dick and hangs down?
Marketriod: Wha?
Me: What has a 1-inch dick and hangs down?
Marketroid: Uh... I dunno.
Me: A vampire bat... get it?
Marketroid: Uh... sure.
Me: What has a 10-inch dick and hangs up?
Marketroid: Wha?
Me: What has a 10-inch dick and hangs up?
Marketroid: Uh... I dunno.
Me: (CLICK!)
Re:Remember... (Score:2)
say something witty or obscene THEN hang up on them. It actually does make the night more amusing.
My personal favorite is to make them think I hung up on them. Many just hang up, but some swear up a storm. The fun begins when I ask them to repeat that. I'm not sure what it sounds like when someone swallows his tongue, but I think I've heard something similar at least.
Spam revenge (Score:3)
Did it work? Maybe. The Annals of Improbable Research (www.improb.com), formerly the Journal of Irreproducible Results (URL to hijacked IP denigrated), published a study in which they had mailed odd and bulky items with correct postage and addresses. The USPS seems to have been imperfectly willing to maintain their unflappable image (what unflappable image!), so not everything got to where it was supposed to.
--Blair
"The bison's in the mail."
Re:Remember... (Score:3)
They show the current rules there and explain how they are trying to get complete coverage of these rules. There's also a link to the document, but this press release sums it up quitenicely.
I found it interesting that they prefer HTML for electronic comments...
Don't just send them empty! (Score:5)
- Little plastic army men.
- Out of focus photographs.
- Change. (Costing more in postage than it's worth)
- Lettuce.
- A printed warning about the Goodtimes virus.
Re:Remember... (Score:3)
That "poor guy" made the decision to take a job as un-ethical as telemarketing. He knows going into the job he will get abuse, and personally, I think he deserves it.
I consider telemarketing to be the worst kind of spam... at least with postal spam or email spam I can easily dismiss it, and it ususally doesn't interrupt what I'm doing at the moment.
Re:Lex Talionis is a morally bankrupt code (Score:5)
We're in our cushy air conditioned offices working on computers and suddenly exacting retribution on a spammer is "brutish"? It's like a playful slap on the wrist, which will perhaps make them a little wiser.
Re:Dude, evolve some more (Score:5)
I think flat scrap iron would be the thing. That way it will fit *inside* the envelope. See this article [improbable.com] for more info about what you might be likely to get away with mailing. And be sure to give your postal servant a small box of chocolates as a thanks.
Re:Remember... (Score:4)
Sorry, there's no ethical "get out of jail free" card for the poor. Just because someone is willing to pay for a service doesn't make it right.
--G
Awesome link! (Score:3)
--
MailOne [openone.com]
Don't respond! (Score:4)
This may be a way for them to confirm.
If they have a domain, trace it back to their provider! Let their provider cut off the service or their provider's provider do it.
I have called spammers and they hang up, so I call back and explain to them how rude it is.
What we have to do is to stop the people providing the SPAM lists. What about the SPAMMERs using open relays being charged with the computer tresspass statute--for using a mail relay w/o authorization?
Send "sparkles" (Score:4)
They are stick tenaciously to EVERYTHING, including the scan heads of the mail sorters, and jam up the works. Word has it that it takes about 1/2 hour to clean up after this happens
Re:Dude, evolve some more (Score:4)
Sorry.
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