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Gartner Analyst Retracts "Windows 8 Is Bad" Claim 306

Posted by timothy
from the mmmm-kay? dept.
nk497 writes "A Gartner analyst made headlines after describing Windows 8 desktop as: 'in a word: bad.' After web reaction, including one story asking why anyone bothers to listen to the consultancy firm anymore, Gunnar Berger has now yanked the offending sentence from his blog post, saying it was taken out of context and only applied to using the desktop with a mouse and keyboard, and that overall Windows 8 is a good thing. 'If you look at my blog, I've gotten rid of it,' he said. 'It's upsetting me that it's being taken completely out of context.'"
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Gartner Analyst Retracts "Windows 8 Is Bad" Claim

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  • by Captain Hook (923766) on Tuesday July 24, 2012 @08:44AM (#40747849)
    Admittedly I tend to only read the tech related news sites but they all picked up on the same thing....

    Windows 8 on a desktop just doesn't make any sense.
    • by bigstrat2003 (1058574) on Tuesday July 24, 2012 @08:50AM (#40747891)
      I thought exactly the same thing. He has nothing to apologize for, Windows 8 is bad. It has one of the worst UI designs I've ever seen.
      • by blackicye (760472) on Tuesday July 24, 2012 @09:01AM (#40748019)

        I thought exactly the same thing. He has nothing to apologize for, Windows 8 is bad. It has one of the worst UI designs I've ever seen.

        Frankly though, I don't really care about the UI, I've been using the Win2K classic mode since well..win2K.
        There have already been user mods and themes to restore the classic interface.

        I'm interested more in the kernel and stability/updates and underlying parts of the OS.

        I've never liked Aero, or the ME or Vista interfaces or bloated junk like the OSX interface.

        I'm not curmudgeonly enough to work purely in a CLI environment, I don't want my OS to look pretty, I want it to run applications, preferably faster and more stably than it's previous iterations on the same hardware.

        • by Dog-Cow (21281)

          What's wrong with OS X? It's GUI is so sparse, I long for Windows when I have to use it. Now, the OS itself I like. I just think the GUI is stuck in the 80s.

          • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

            by cpu6502 (1960974)

            >>>What's wrong with OS X? It's GUI is so sparse,

            Try running it on a 400 MHz Mac sometime. It's not sparse at all..... in fact it's slow as heck (you can actually see OS X draw the window). WinXP's desktop runs better at 400 MHz than OS X's desktop.

            • by sproketboy (608031) on Tuesday July 24, 2012 @09:33AM (#40748503)

              Why would anyone bother running modern software on 12 year old hardware?

              • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

                by cpu6502 (1960974)

                >>>Why would anyone bother running modern software on 12 year old hardware?

                8 years old.
                Same reason I climbed Mt. Everest. ;-) Also it's "green" to continue using hardware rather than throw it in a landfill. Plus I was mainly proving a point: That OSX 10.5's desktop runs slower than XP-SP3's desktop. OSX is not "sparse" at all.

                • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

                  by Anonymous Coward

                  8 years old? You bought a brand new 400MHz system in 2004? Not likely, since even the 12" iBooks had 800MHz PowerPC G4 processors as of the beginning of 2004 (with 1.07GHz processors released in April of that year). The PowerBooks of the same time period had 1+GHz processors, and the PowerMacs came in north of 1.5GHz with the G5 processor. The most recent Mac I can find that had a 400MHz processor was the FireWire iBook, released in September of 2000. It came with a 366 or 466MHz G3 processor.

                  And, cong

                  • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

                    by cpu6502 (1960974)

                    >>>an OS released in 2007 which won't even run on hardware of that era.

                    I never bought any Mac new. They are usually handed to me for free, or cheap. So I was going by wikipedia which my G4 was last made in 2004. And YES you can run OS 10.5 on a 400 MHz Mac. I'm sorry you got all offended because I said OS X's desktop is "less speedy" than XP-SP3 on a 400 MHz processor. Maybe you shouldn't put your personal selfworth into a damn piece of plastic & metal if you are so easy to anger

                • by jbolden (176878)

                  8 years ago the 12" was 1.4ghz g4.

            • by jellomizer (103300) on Tuesday July 24, 2012 @10:09AM (#40748939)

              Which version of OS X?

              Windows XP was released back in the early 2000's About the Same time OS X was released.
              Now Microsoft Screwed up and couldn't get Vista out until late in the decade, allowing Apple to release multiple major version upgrade in that period of time, and began to not support Macs that are 6 years old or older.

              What OS X and Windows Areo did was offload a lot of the graphic processing off the CPU and onto the video card. When they did that, the older systems without such cards started to take a performance hit.

            • Try running it on a 400 MHz Mac sometime. It's not sparse at all..... in fact it's slow as heck (you can actually see OS X draw the window). WinXP's desktop runs better at 400 MHz than OS X's desktop.

              I run osx unto 10.3 on a clamshell 366 Mhz ibook (with, from memory, 320 Mb ram). It ran good enough for me to use it. Even programmed a little java with Xcode on it. WinXp would probably have run faster though. It had less fluff than OSX.

            • by jbolden (176878)

              When was a 400 MHZ mac current? I think we are talking late OS8.

          • by blackicye (760472)

            What's wrong with OS X? It's GUI is so sparse, I long for Windows when I have to use it. Now, the OS itself I like. I just think the GUI is stuck in the 80s.

            I didn't most of OSX, aside from the UI. As someone who only very recently started using a Mac (partially out of professional curiosity, partially to support semi-PC/Mac illiterate users)

            But I immediately found most of it's evangelists claims of it being user friendly, more stable than windows etc to be almost totally marketing/fanboy rubbish.

            For starters, trying to make a Shortcut (alias) to the desktop was one of the most counter intuitive things I've ever experienced in any UI. Also I once had to figure

            • by blackicye (760472)

              dang it...I really need to start using the preview button as intended..

        • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

          by Anonymous Coward

          Frankly though, I don't really care about the UI, I've been using the Win2K classic mode since well..win2K.

          Well, you'll feel right at home with Windows 8, and that same old Start menu bar that's been there since forever. It's a good thing they haven't decided to change that or anything....

        • by LordLimecat (1103839) on Tuesday July 24, 2012 @09:18AM (#40748277)

          Frankly though, I don't really care about the UI, I've been using the Win2K classic mode since well..win2K.

          The UI is one of the most forefront things in Windows, and if theyre radically changing how applications are going to interact with the user (single fullscreen app, two contexts metro / regular, new widgets) thats going to affect 99% of users.

          I mean maybe there are new commandline commands or powershell cmdlets, but Im going to go out on a limb and say those arent why people get a new desktop version of windows.

        • by kdogg73 (771674) on Tuesday July 24, 2012 @09:21AM (#40748307) Homepage
          In the shadow of my main Mac tower (desktop publishing), I have an old Dell XPS B866 in my office running Win2k as my lowest common denominator, so I can test .doc, .xls and .ppt files in Office 2003. But talking about Windows UI? It was no frills, quick and to the point interface. I still think it was Microsoft's best OS. All it needs is some protocol updates and other under the hood stuff, it could last longer. Unfortunately, 12 years old, even Firefox developers wont throw it a bone.
      • by grcumb (781340) on Tuesday July 24, 2012 @09:14AM (#40748213) Homepage Journal

        I thought exactly the same thing. He has nothing to apologize for, Windows 8 is bad. It has one of the worst UI designs I've ever seen.

        Ah, Grasshopper, you fail to understand the zen of Gartner.

        In order to be taken seriously, that they base their statements on nothing more than what people want to hear from them. Because they therefore illuminate the inner brilliance that every CEO knows must exist inside of them somewhere, Gartner becomes the top research agency in technology today.

        It is not sufficient that Gartner, like a stopped clock, accidentally be right from time to time. No, they have achieved release from the wheel of torment that is reality. They strive never to be right. Gartner, my child, is the apotheosis of Wrong.

        • by Ken Hall (40554) on Tuesday July 24, 2012 @09:46AM (#40748631)

          In a previous job, where I was a tech manager, the management above me swore by Gartner. Nothing was done without their blessing. Unless, of course, the recommendation disagreed with one of their deep-seated "religious" biases.

          In any case, dealing with Gartner was an interesting experience. I would call them and speak to an analyst about some product we were thinking of getting. The analyst would make vague pronouncements about "industry standards", and "best of breed", and "best practices", and usually vaguely recommend whichever product happened to be the front runner in that particular niche at that time. Then I would outline my reasons for choosing whatever product we had determined to be best for our needs. I could hear the analyst hanging on every word, and I just knew our reasoning would make it into the next round of recommendations.

          They never gave me anything useful, their sole function seemed to be to validate whatever decision we had already made. In the couple of cases where they did make a serious recommendation in conflict with our plans, the company tended to ignore them and do what it pleased anyway.

          • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

            by postbigbang (761081)

            It actually went like this:

            "Hey Gunnar-- Microsoft's check cleared the bank!"

            "Oh shit! Where's the fcuking delete key!"

      • by Cinder6 (894572) on Tuesday July 24, 2012 @11:32AM (#40750261)

        I thought Windows 8 was bad, so I downloaded the preview and ran it exclusively for a week. While it obviously still has some bugs to work out (which I am sure will largely gone by October), I find myself having to admit, I liked it. Metro apps are kind of odd on a desktop, but the actual desktop (or is that Desktop?) is still just as usable, and if I can keep 99% of my apps using it, then I will have absolutely no problem with the OS. Frankly, the Start Screen is better than the old start menu. It's much more customizable and acts as a very fast application launcher for anything you don't have saved to your home screen.

        I even found myself liking the ribbon in Explorer. Whereas I had to do a Google search to find out how to show hidden files in Windows 7, in 8 it was two very logical clicks away. Even in previous versions of Windows, it took several clicks going through different screens. I can accept that it's not for everyone and maybe Microsoft should add a toggle for old-style menus, but I feel like Slashdot has too much of a knee-jerk reaction to this thing and is engaging in too much groupthink. It's something you have to try out for longer than a few minutes (my first reaction was to laugh at it), which is why I went for the full week.

        This probably sounds like a shill post, and I wouldn't be surprised if it gets labeled as one. I don't much care; people will think what they will when their opinions are challenged.

        • by bigstrat2003 (1058574) on Tuesday July 24, 2012 @12:11PM (#40750941)
          I don't think it's a shill post (which, on this site, is really another term for "someone who said something positive about a product/company I don't like", nothing more). I do disagree. The desktop is fine (it's the same as ever), but I find the start screen to be a complete train wreck on a traditional computer. It's completely unsuited to navigation with a mouse and keyboard, and is transparently designed to promote Microsoft's bottom line, rather than a positive user experience. I would have to literally get paid to put up with it.
    • by dubdays (410710)

      Admittedly I tend to only read the tech related news sites but they all picked up on the same thing.... Windows 8 on a desktop just doesn't make any sense.

      Yes, it was definitely taken out of context. He was only referring to using the Metro interface with a mouse, and I totally agree with him. It is really, REALLY bad trying to deal with Metro when you can't use a touchscreen.

    • by cpu6502 (1960974) on Tuesday July 24, 2012 @09:03AM (#40748055)

      >>>Windows 8 on a desktop just doesn't make any sense.

      What about Android on the desktop? I bet Google could make a lot of money selling PCs with the ad: "Works just like your phone, with the same android interface you know and love." Win8's failure might by Google's chance to chip-away at Microsoft's desktop/laptop monopoly..... just as they chipped-away at Explorer's dominance on the web.

      • Fine for an exec reading their email and calling people to tell them they are fired but utter excrement if you are a salesman, engineer, document writer, project planner etc. You know the useless scum that actually do the work and don't need stock options because we can just fire them and get someone more subservient to do the job. Yes windows 8 and Android will be fine for all organizations that don't actually do anything.

      • by oakgrove (845019)
        I've been experimenting with an Android desktop for a while and it does have potential but there is still a ways to go. The first issue is many programs don't work well with the keyboard. Pulse news reader is a great example as it is basically useless with the arrow keys. You try to navigate and just get stuck somewhere pressing the keys and nothing happening. Another issue is global keyboard shortcuts like alt-tab just don't work as well as they do on other systems. When you alt-tab on Android, you ge
      • by jez9999 (618189) on Tuesday July 24, 2012 @11:06AM (#40749885) Homepage Journal

        What about Android on the desktop? I bet Google could make a lot of money selling PCs with the ad: "Works just like your phone, with the same android interface you know and love."

        Why is everyone so obsessed with unifying interfaces? Sometimes, different interfaces are *necessary* to achieve wildly differing functionalities on the desktop and portable devices.

    • by Monoman (8745) on Tuesday July 24, 2012 @09:09AM (#40748113) Homepage

      Metro on the desktop is fine if it is run as an app and has a dedicated monitor. :-) The desktop in Win8 should be full featured with Metro as an option. I can see Metro being used for kiosks maybe

      Typical MS coming out with something totally new is that it always feels half baked. There is a reason why many people believe MS doesn't get things right until (at least) the third version.

      Metro on the phones and tablets is another discussion entirely.

      • by Dog-Cow (21281)

        It's not even all that new. It sounds to me like a(n improved) copy of OS X Lion's Mission Control.

    • Unless your desktop has a touch screen.

    • by hal2814 (725639) on Tuesday July 24, 2012 @10:37AM (#40749409)
      The conversation went something like this:

      Microsoft: "If you're a researcher on this Windows 8 thing and you were on Earth, you must have been gathering material on it."
      Gartner analyst: "Well, I was able to extend the original entry a bit, yes."
      Microsoft: "Let me see what it says in this edition, then. I've got to see it."
      ... "What? Bad! Is that all it's got to say? Bad! One word! ... Well, for God's sake I hope you managed to recitify that a bit."
      Gartner analyst: "Oh yes, well I managed to transmit a new entry off to the editor. He had to trim it a bit, but it's still an improvement."
      Microsoft: "And what does it say now?"
      Gartner analyst: "Mostly bad."
      • by steelfood (895457) on Tuesday July 24, 2012 @01:30PM (#40752315)

        Gartner analyst: It just so happens that your product here is only mostly bad. There's a big difference between mostly bad and all bad. Mostly bad is slightly good. With all bad, well, with all bad there's usually only one thing you can do.
        Microsoft: What's that?
        Gartner analyst: Go through the code and look for loose change.

    • by jez9999 (618189)

      Windows 8 on a desktop just doesn't make any sense.

      Especially when it's been superseded by new technology.

      I can't believe these reviews are still focussing on Windows 8. I've got Windows 98 for god's sake. Get with the 21st century.

  • Payday! (Score:4, Funny)

    by Sponge Bath (413667) on Tuesday July 24, 2012 @08:44AM (#40747853)
    I guess the Microsoft check finally cleared.
    • by poetmatt (793785)

      pretty much. Gartner analysis has always leaned towards those who pay the most for the studies, in order to get in their magic quadrants.

    • These guys are Microsoft lapdogs. They are so biased that their analysis means nothing. When one of them speaks the truth about a product that looks like it will go down in flames he gets swatted down. This just proves what we have been saying about Gartner.

    • by dkleinsc (563838)

      The interesting bit about the story of Gartner has always been how they continue to make money and be well-regarded as prognosticators while having a track record of being completely wrong and having opinions that are basically those of the highest bidder.

      • Well regarded by whom?

        Oh.. well regarded by the upper IT head honchos spouting today's buzzwords.

        Look at the track record of those guys. Not good.

      • by azalin (67640)

        The interesting bit about the story of Gartner has always been how they continue to make money and be well-regarded as prognosticators while having a track record of being completely wrong and having opinions that are basically those of the highest bidder.

        Free markets at work? *ducks*

    • by blackicye (760472)

      I guess the Microsoft check finally cleared.

      Give the guy the benefit of the doubt, he might have been trying to type "Awesome" and just typoed (before the check cleared.)

    • by synapse7 (1075571)
      What else would be the motivation for the changes/retractions?
  • by turkeyfeathers (843622) on Tuesday July 24, 2012 @08:45AM (#40747863)
    It's company policy at Gartner for the analysts give their website links to their mothers, so that someone will read their blogs.
  • Fatigue=suck (Score:4, Insightful)

    by StormyWeather (543593) on Tuesday July 24, 2012 @08:48AM (#40747881) Homepage

    Hold your arm out in front of you for 20 minutes and tell me how great that touchscreen interface is.

    Windows 8 is full of fail, just like the Nintendo power-glove, and for the same reason.

    • by Java Pimp (98454) <(java_pimp) (at) (yahoo.com)> on Tuesday July 24, 2012 @08:52AM (#40747919) Homepage

      Seriously! I get pissed when my kids touch my monitor screen with their sticky fingers. Now if I have to do it my screen is going to be covered in Cheetos dust.

      • That's true. People that have to look at monitors all stinking day are very picky about having them clean, free of dead pixels, having them operating on the right frequency, set to the right brightness, right angle to view, etc. One of my coworkers accidentally touched one of my monitors the other day, and promptly apologized, and went to go get stuff to clean his fingerprint off it.

        People that check their mail for a few minutes once a day could care less.

      • by azalin (67640)
        Kids, chocolate and touchscreens are not a good combination. Well actually not a whole lot of thing go very well with the first two...
    • really great. Imagine how toned everyone's arms will be as a result of this technology coming into our every day lives!

    • by Teresita (982888)
      People don't get enough exercise these days. Win8 on a desktop with the touch interface will help you build your trilaterals. No more getting sand kicked in your face by those Apple bullies.
    • by ethanms (319039)

      Hold your arm out in front of you for 20 minutes and tell me how great that touchscreen interface is.

      The touch interface makes sense when you consider the rising popularity of the tablet form-factor, and potentially increasing number of non-traditional "desktops" such as Surface-like devices (which would be an ergonomic nightmare for long term use, unless they intend to patent a dual-display where your hands/arms sit on one interface flat to your desktop while your eyes view another display (in a more tradi

  • by OzPeter (195038) on Tuesday July 24, 2012 @08:53AM (#40747937)

    saying it was taken out of context and only applied to using the desktop with a mouse and keyboard,

    Mouse and Keyboard??? Isn't that how 95% of the population is going to initially be using windows 8?

    • Pretty much (Score:4, Informative)

      by Sycraft-fu (314770) on Tuesday July 24, 2012 @09:25AM (#40748383)

      I have to say I actually agree with him both ways, that it is bad, but not completely.

      So from a technical standpoint Windows 8 is great. It is fast, stable, and efficient. Cakewalk tested Sonar X1 on it and found an across the board performance improvement. They didn't recompile for it or anything, just used the current one, and in all tests 8 did better. They really seem to have done a solid job improving the technical aspects of the OS which is great, but 7 is already quite good.

      The problem is the UI. Not only is it ugly, which maybe shouldn't matter to people but does, but it is not well designed for mouse+keyboard. They are trying to whack a tablet UI on to a desktop and for some reason they think that won't piss people off. So it isn't as pleasing to look at, and is less efficient to use than Windows 7.

      So over all I think it is a "bad" OS in that people are going to hate it, and it is going to create this situation of "Windows 7 is the last good OS EVAR!" and it'll be harder to get people to upgrade than it normally is. However it is only bad because they are trying to use it to flog their tablets, the technical aspects are quite good.

      For personal use I don't care, I'll just replace its UI with something else, but it annoys the hell out of me for work since it is going to make life more difficult. Users are going to hate it (they hate any change but they'll really make hell about this one) and then decide they never want to move off of 7.

    • Indeed but they have the "build it and they will come" delusion of selling tens of millions of tablets. If desktop Metro really sucks that bad then the PR uproar will force Microsoft to make it optional for keyboard and mouse.

  • Not even by mistake.

  • Yes.
    And?
    That's exactly what I'll be using Windows 8 for: My desktop and laptop. If it is "bad" for that task then I won't be buying it. This reporter should not retract his honest opinion of Vista the Second (Win8). Unless he's being threatened by Microsoft?

  • by SirGarlon (845873) on Tuesday July 24, 2012 @09:03AM (#40748051)
    This is why we all need to say what we mean, and mean what we say. Otherwise we lose our credibility. Whether Berger didn't really mean Windows 8 with keyboard and mouse is "bad," or he did mean it and is now recanting under pressure, looks bad either way. He's not only harmed his own reputation, but his employer's as well.
    • He knows what he said, and he knows he's right. Now he doesn't have the balls to stand in - either personally because of public reaction, and/or professionally because he was threatened by the MS -> Gartner chain of command.
  • by Keruo (771880) on Tuesday July 24, 2012 @09:06AM (#40748079)
    I started ignoring everything stated by Gartner when they announced something in lines with "Companies shoud switch to Windows Vista as soon as possible, in order to avoid costly migration later"
  • If I had to describe using a desktop without a mouse and keyboard, I would have to say: BAD! I can type 98 WPM on a keyboard and when gaming with a mouse, I make joystick users on the Xbox look like penguins trying to play using their wings. But I guess it's common knowledge at this point that the resounding theme out of the market research is "people want SLOW!" The slower the better! The longer it takes to type out a wall post on Facebook, the longer the user gets to enjoy it.
    • Re:In a word (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Outtascope (972222) on Tuesday July 24, 2012 @09:35AM (#40748529)

      Ding Ding Ding! Bob, we have a winner! E. Fish. ANSII. Touch is not and cannot be practical for most business/office applications. Yes, it rules for Angry Birds and Draw Something, maybe even for your calendar (provided you are only viewing). But it is an awful interface for anything that requires typing and makes multi-tasking nearly impossible. Copy and paste on touch is the gonorrhea of computing. Just look at how crappy Autocad has gotten over the last 10 years or so where they have tried to move everything to a point-and-click use paradigm. It sucks balls, I spend an hour everytime I install it disabling all of the new UI crap they put on it because it just isn't efficient. I can't wait to see the cesspool that they create for it on Win8.

      I think touch it is fantastic on tablets, but not the friggin' desktop. And even there, the dozen or so people in my office that have tablets all end up getting keyboards and mice for them (myself included on my ICS Android tablet) because they simply can't get stuff done quickly enough with touch.

      Leave it to Microsoft to finally get something right (Windows 7) and then throw it away.

  • He meant "Windows is bad" in the same way James Brown is bad, right?

    Please, how do you take "Windows is bad" out of context?

    Then he tries to retract by saying "I meant in the context of a keyboard and mouse". Well who does he think uses Windows? Are we all going to start interacting with Windows 8 via neural link?

    I do agree with questioning why anybody would listen to a consultant's blog. They're looking to get attention and after a while, you have no choice but to say something that you know will get at

  • There's a stupid popup ad that won't go away, and I don't see an "X" to close it. (But then again maybe the problem is with Opera browser.....)

  • Your OS is bad and you should feel bad!

  • Gartner is a joke, and this retraction is just another in a long list of mistakes they've made. They're known for saying whatever people want them to say, and in this case since Microsoft pays the bills they can't leave bad things about Windows 8 floating around out there.

    Too bad it really does suck with a mouse and keyboard. And hey, Metro apps get suspended if they're not in the foreground. So you won't be doing background work either. The whole desktop version of Windows 8 is just the revenge of Vista. I

  • The comment said that the experience of using Windows 8 with a mouse and keyboard was bad. Since that covers virtually 100% of all existing deployments and likely 95% of deployments even into the next few years I think it pretty significant. Of course what the analyst said is not surprising to anyone who has used the preview releases. The experience with mouse and keyboard IS bad.

    I don't blame the change in UI for that so much as the replacement simply isn't mature or refined enough to be called a replace

  • I've never been a operating systems fan and I wouldn't say I am now. I just use what I have to because I have to whether it was for personal, work, music, school, whatever. I've used OS9,OSX, Win95-Win7, Solaris, Ubuntu/Fedora/CentOS/RedHat/YDL all because I was put in a situation where something I wanted to achieve required I use whatever OS. That being said, I don't think Windows 8 is bad and I don't find the Metro GUI hard to use, in fact it's really simple. It's the kind of OS that I feel I could sh
  • by Skuld-Chan (302449) on Tuesday July 24, 2012 @11:07AM (#40749915)

    The place I work actually has a subscription. I logged in and was even assigned a researcher who sends me spam like emails every month... As far as I can tell its really only useful as a method to justify a decision to management. The one time I called them (the request of my boss) was concerning JAMF Casper - to which they admittedly had never heard of it, but were willing to research it and come up with the same conclusions I did - it was worth implementing.

    Most of the articles and the paid for content you could honestly dig up similar results with Google. I've even found one article that has plagiarized content from Wikipedia no less (now archived article about Ruby - a good chunk of it was lifted from Wikipedia word for word). I got suspicious when under platform support they mention Amiga... (I love the Amiga, but its not very enterprise researchy...).

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