Sculptor Gives a Hint For CIA's Kryptos 151
omega_cubed writes "The New York Times reports that Jim Sanborn, the sculptor who created the wavy metal pane called Kryptos that sits in front of the CIA in Langley, VA, has gotten tired of waiting for code-breakers to decode the last of the four messages. 'I assumed the code would be cracked in a fairly short time,' [Sanborn] said, adding that the intrusions on his life from people who think they have solved his fourth puzzle are more than he expected. So now, after 20 years, Mr. Sanborn is nudging the process along. He has provided The New York Times with the answers to six letters in the sculpture's final passage. The characters that are the 64th through 69th in the final series on the sculpture read NYPVTT. When deciphered, they read BERLIN."
Comment removed (Score:5, Funny)
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Why do they call it Ovaltine? The mug is round. The jar is round. They should call it Roundtine. That's gold, Jerry! Gold!
Re:Shucks! (Score:4, Informative)
Why do they call it Ovaltine? The mug is round. The jar is round. They should call it Roundtine.
Blame US Customs [ovaltineusa.com]:
The story of OVALTINE®, or should we say Ovomaltine, begins in 1904. Ovomaltine was originally developed in Switzerland as a recovery drink for skiers returning from a long, active day. (For some reason it was never poured into little kegs and hung on the necks of St. Bernards for roaming the Alps.)
As it grew from a recovery drink into a popular chocolatey beverage, Ovomaltine decided to see the world. When it went through customs, however, a printing error forever changed the name of the chocolatey treat. And the world was introduced to OVALTINE. (Our thanks go out to customs!)
Of course, if this had happened today, it would be called... OBAMATINE
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Why do/did they call it Ovomaltine?
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I guess it has something to do with eggs and malt.
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Well, that sure got changed for the better. Old name sounded too much like "OVUM-altine", which gives weird and creepy connotations. 'Course, maybe I'm parsing it wrong.
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I sense a -5: Redundant in my future! Anyways, I'm sure I'm not the only one who doesn't picture chicken egges when they hear "ovum", hence my continued horror at the name.
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A similar story is allegedly behind the cosmetics product line which in different countries are named "Oil of Olay" / "Olaz" / "Ulay" / "Ulan".
The story is that when first exporting it to Europe, the representative typed in the name on a German QWERTZ keyboard, and Olay became Olaz. After that, the company decided to do the cat thing[*], and gave it a new name for the next couple of countries.
[*]: You know, pretend it skid into the wall intentionally, and is just fine, thank you.
(And in the bad spirit of
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I'd call that a fortuitous error. Who would buy a drink which includes a series of letters strikingly similar to "vomit?"
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Good point. I always thought the same about Vimto (a fizzy drink popular in the UK) - either the inventor was spectacularly bad at anagrams, or they had a wicked sense of humour.
Re:Shucks! (Score:4, Funny)
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glennbecksperm ?
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"Be sure to drink your Ovaltine. There are starving children in Berlin who'd do anything for a nice glass of Ovaltine like that."
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Wait, how does the sculptor know? Did they give him the plaintext and say "oh, btw, here's the ci[her you have to use, we want it encrypted".
Is he a sculptor that did a lot of "commissions" in South America and Eastern Europe?
Encoding NYT URL (Score:2)
Oh, I see some may have to play this "game" with the NYT's URL:
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2010/11/20/us/code.html?ref=us
Add '&r=2' to the end of the URL.
No! Don't solve the puzzle! (Score:5, Funny)
If you do, the[NO CARRIER]
It's the CIA guys. (Score:2)
They aren't code crackers. That's the NSA's job. The CIA assassinates people, and uses very expensive satellites to watch weenie-roasts in countries you can't pronounce, which are started with very large heavy metal cans and ended very suddenly with a bang and a cheer. They also made the CIA World Factbook... which in my humble opinion may be the only thing they've done for the internet that was useful.
So lay off on them being given a really complex soduku in their backyard and then being upset because they
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1. Since it's contrary to the CIA's mission, why was it installed in the first place? (It should have went to NSA instead.)
2. Someone in authority at CIA knew what all the messages were ahead of time, right? Otherwise they risked the possibility of one (or more) of the messages being damaging in some way.
Comment removed (Score:5, Informative)
All spy agencies use encryption. (Score:2)
And they all have code breakers, this includes the CIA and FBI.
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The existence of the organization was not only not a total secret, but no secret at all. Who ever wanted to know would have easily learned about the NSA years before because it was very much visible in things like the skipjack encryption of the clipper chip (1993, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clipper_chip [wikipedia.org]). It
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Not just better, but also more appropriate. The NSA and its purposes have been corrupted; best that it go away entirely.
And the CIA is a factory which produces rainbows and puppies?
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dead puppies and rainbow-colored gut piles, yes
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Right, it spends its time assassinating people in the name of American citizens.
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I'm sure that you can try to pigeonhole various agencies and say that their function is x, but even though all those agencies fall under the same umbrella as part of the US intelligence community, the sharing of information between agenc
Poor Cryptographer? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Poor Cryptographer? (Score:5, Informative)
They have: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VENONA_project [wikipedia.org]
The Soviet planners were so impressed with one-time pads that decided that they needed to be copied:
Somebody who was working for the manufacturers of Soviet secret-communication materials had reused pages of some of the "one-time" pads in other "one-time" pads, which were then used for other secret messages. This defeated the purpose of the one-time pad, which provides ideal security when each page is used exactly once and then disposed of.
The article continues:
It is unclear as to why this fatal mistake was made, or by whom.
I would guess that he, who made the mistake, is pushing up the daisies in Siberia now . . .
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Because it's so easy to decrypt a one-time pad encrypted message, it's boring.
What, you say *my* plaintext doesn't match the message in the ciphertext? Well, that's what *you* say.
I'd like to solve the puzzle, Pat (Score:2, Funny)
"Ich bin ein Berliner"
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you are a Jelly-Filled Doughnut?
Depends whom you ask (Score:3, Informative)
FWIW, my high school German teacher was a teenager in Germany at the time, and her grandmother scolded her severely for busting a gut laughing at Kennedy when he uttered this line. And just to be clear, she comes from an old Prussian family -- this was not a case of an American military family having one over on their president. While folks in Berlin might not have made much of the turn of phrase, folks elsewhere in Germany, at least some of them, had a grand old time.
Cheers,
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It's true that "Ich bin ein Berliner" is ambiguous. It can refer to someone who is from the city of Berlin, or who feels he is a jelly filled doghnut. As with all ambiguous sentences, you usually assume the meaning that seems correct given the context. Thus, Kennedy's use of the sentence was completely correct. (It's quite possible that your then-teenage German teacher believed it was funny, kids that are trying to misunderstand someone to creaty funny situations are not exactly unusual)
I'm a German. Kenedy
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I think the fun part arose from quick logic.
There is, as you said, two types of Berliner, it's either someone from Berlin, or the jam-filled doughnut. Since the Amerikaner obviously wasn't from Berlin, the conclusion must be...
Re:I'd like to solve the puzzle, Pat (Score:5, Insightful)
Germans are incredibly tolerant about their language; if you try to speak it they will lend helping hands. I guess they figure that if you have the courage to try to learn it, and speak it, you don't need to prove any valour beyond that. (German is not my first language).
I have seen the film clip where Kennedy says, "Ich bin ein Berliner!", but all of the crowd knew what he wanted to say, and so it was no problem.
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Germans are incredibly tolerant about their language; if you try to speak it they will inform you that they actually speak fluent English, and that it would be easiest for the both of you to continue the conversation in your native tounge.
FTFY
I've always wanted to become fluent in German, but decades of compulsory English education at all levels of German secondary school mean that most Germans already speak my language. It's kind of hard to motivate myself to learn their language when I know it would be a mostly academic exercise. :-(
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If you walk up to someone and start the conversation in German, it can continue in German. If you need to conduct business and aren't comfortable concluding it in a language you struggle with, you can always switch to English and be successful.
I was able to use quite a bit more German than I thought I would when I visited Austria and Germany for a few weeks in 2008; it had been almost a decade since I had studied German in college.
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Actually, "ich bin ein Berliner" is not wrong. The creative re-interpretation of JFK's words rests solely on the fact that "Berliner" is also the name for those jelly-filled doughnuts. If he had given the speech in München (Munich) and had said, "Ich bin ein Münchner", nobody would have thought to make anything more of it.
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Exactly. I am German and there is a game we play with little kids called "Teekesselchen". This is a game where the goal is to find the meaning or a word which is pronounced the same but means different things. The opponent needs to figure out the word by me describing the item without using the actual word.
One Example is Boxer which can be a human fighter or a dog.
Same goes for Berliner, most Germans with a basic understanding of German/English know that JFK was not talking about a jelly doughnut.
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This is a game where the goal is to find the meaning or a word which is pronounced the same but means different things.
In English, this is called a homonym: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homonym [wikipedia.org].
As in, "Can you see the sea?"
English is my first language, but I am also fluent in German. One time a colleague asked me to translate an email that he had inadvertently been put on CC, in German. The whole department laughing their asses off over the word: Fehlerbehebungsmaßnahmen.
I told them that the meaning for me was crystal clear, but you would need a whole sentence in English to describe what it meant.
My girlfriend, w
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My girlfriend, who is a native German speaker,
claims that Unterwasserseebootbeleuchtungsautomatik is a valid word, which is used by a Donaudampfschiffahrtsgesellschaftskapitän.
If you tried to fomalize German language rules, you would find the rule := [Noun] + [filler]? + [Noun]
[Noun]
Thus, you can combine the two words into Donaudampfschiffahrtsgesellschaftskapitänsunterwasserseebootsbeleuchtungsautomatik, and still have a valid German word.
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Unterwasserseebootbeleuchtungsautomatik is a valid word, which is used by a Donaudampfschiffahrtsgesellschaftskapitän.
Thus, you can combine the two words into Donaudampfschiffahrtsgesellschaftskapitänsunterwasserseebootsbeleuchtungsautomatik, and still have a valid German word.
Ah, but, Sir, you added an "s", which indicates that you understand the German Genative . . . as opposed to Promis who pop up on television in Germany . . . I'm talking about you, Verona!
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Bad example. See and sea are not homonyms, they are homophones – pronounced the same but spelt differently. A better example would be "The rest may rest".
Brilliant! That's what I love about Slashdot . . . we can be pedantic, in the pedantic sense of the word.
Up next, "Sesquipedalians, do we know what the fuck they are talking about, or what?" "Live, on Larry King . . . "
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I guess they figure that if you have the courage to try to learn it, and speak it, you don't need to prove any valour beyond that.
I suppose it stems from the fact that German is known to be pretty complicated to learn, especially when English is your mother tongue.
I have seen the film clip where Kennedy says, "Ich bin ein Berliner!", but all of the crowd knew what he wanted to say, and so it was no problem.
Actually, JFK had a quite remarkable pronounciation. He could not entirely conceal his American accent, but managed to get his tongue round very well. However, the crowd reacted with such enthusiasm because two years before JFK's speech, the East Germans had started constructing the Berlin Wall isolating West Berlin. And at this climax of the Cold War, an American president
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you are a Jelly-Filled Doughnut?
WRONG [wikipedia.org]
Having spent some time researching this story years ago - here is the bottom line.
What Kennedy said was the only correct way to say what he intended to say - there was literally no error at all in any way.
But German, like all other languages, has ambiguous syntax and constructs - ESPECIALLY - when you mix colloquialisms into formal language. Interpreting Kennedy as saying "I am a jelly doughnut" is not a serious criticism of what he said, it is instead a rather weak and juvenile Germany joke. The joke is ac
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No, no, it's nothing about Cold War tensions in Germany, it's a quote from Irving Berlin.
Intrusions? (Score:2, Interesting)
Not to say that the geeks don't geek, but c'mon... what intrusions? My guess: he just wanted someone to care again.
Re:Intrusions? (Score:5, Informative)
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... a binder full of claptrap, and they still weren't right.
Got me through 'B' school.
Re:Intrusions? (Score:5, Funny)
It was part of their plan to decode it. They know that social engineering is often a much more effective way of getting at encrypted data than an attack on the algorithm; by pestering the author with a bunch of claptrap, they've already gotten him to reveal part of the plaintext.
Next phase: Stand outside of his apartment with a stereo held overhead Say Anything-style, blasting Achy Breaky Heart. The remainder of the message will fall in days.
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To be fair, the sculptor made it too easy to find himself when he listed his address in the phone book as "94o8sror3q9nso23n4430q0898s78q00".
Why is this news? JFK said it a long time ago ... (Score:2)
When deciphered, they read BERLIN.
"Ich bin ein Berliner!"
In Soviet East Berlin, Erich Honecker eats your jelly doughnut!"
And James Jesus Angelton provided the orchids from his private garden. I am still kicking myself for not attending a book signing session by Markus Wolf, that took place near where I live . . . hell, then I could claim, "I saw the face, of the man without a face!"
A real cryptographer would have written something on the side of his notes saying, "Oh, I have found a really simple solution for this cipher, but I don't ha
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They sentenced me to 20 years of cryptanalysis. (Score:1, Interesting)
There's no crypto behind this guess. Just a leap of intuition from a reference to Webster to King Tut. And the fact that Cohen's First We Take Manhattan was published in 1988, which would have been current around the time the puzzle was being designed fo
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OK, so now we know that.... (Score:5, Funny)
N = B
Y = E
P = R
V = L
T = I
T = N (if it's preceded by another 'T'),
It shouldn't take too long to solve now.
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53305))6*;4826)4.)4);806*;488
60))85;1(;:*883(88)5*;46(;88*96
*?;8)*(;485);5*2:*(;4956*2(5*—4)8
8*;4069285);)68)4;1(9;48081;8:8
1;4885;4)485528806*81(9;48;(88;4
(?34;48)4;161;:188;?;
I love cryptography ... and I love cryptography thanks to Edgar Allan. I was obsessed with The Gold Bug as a kid. That got me into cryptography, which eventually got me into programming. Now, get me Jupiter, we have work to do :)
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Remember to ID by rows.
What's sad/scary about this... (Score:2)
You'd think that with people from the CIA and NSA - they'd be able crack these things with their eyes closed.
It doesn't give me a lot of confidence that the government could crack anything strong than the ciphers encoded by a Capt'n Crunch decoder wheel...
Furthermore -
Re:What's sad/scary about this... (Score:4, Insightful)
Nothing sad about this. It just illustrates that cryptanalysis is very hard when there's not enough context.
In other words, you too can keep your messages secret for 20 years if you (1) keep your messages short and seemingly random, and (2) don't reuse the same cypher.
The three letter agencies have a better chance of decoding the Voynich manuscript than this statue, simply because there's more to analyze in the manuscript.
Why try? (Score:1, Insightful)
Nothing sad about this. It just illustrates that cryptanalysis is very hard when there's not enough context.
Not only that, but there's little incentive to solve these cyphers. It's not like he's hiding a Swiss bank account or ICBM launch codes.
The best a cracker could expect would be some kudos and maybe a job offer.
Not something anyone is going to spend supercomputer time on or build a botnet to crack.
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the ciphers encoded by a Capt'n Crunch decoder wheel...
Holy Draper, CryptoMan, now everyone knows about that.
Its a lyric by Irving Berliner.
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A large part of the problem is that the sculptor wasn't meticulous enough, and introduced _errors_ to the cyphertexts. That makes the decryption all the more complicated, because you have to brute-force all the possible errors he could have made and try each of them against your proposed solution. For a linear encryption scheme, you can find out where the errors are and cut down on the time, but for a matrix type encryption, even if you had the key and the cipher, you will get gibberish out with a single
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The remaining 64 characters (Score:5, Funny)
I remember a night we walked along the Seine riding on the metro
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You take my breath away.
Alternate pop-music reference (Score:2)
No, the rest of the message is "It's goin' down, y'all - like the wall of Berlin". Cleverly, the entire ciphertext is also the proper pronunciation Prince's old glyph.
I win (Score:1)
William H. Webster owes me $20. I TOLD him it was the lyrics to "Take My Breath Away"!
Something jumped out at me (Score:3, Interesting)
I'm not familiar with Kryptos, and I'm not one for cryptography. We know there are (at least) two layers here, the encryption and the resulting riddle. Obviously Sanborn is being coy.
The word IQLUSION stood out to me. At face value this seems to be a misspelling of illusion, but also obvious is the beginning IQ: intelligence quotient. If that is abbreviated to intelligence, and you read through the rest, you get intelligence illusion. Perhaps a reference to counter-intelligence? This is Langley, after all.
Maybe this is old news, or nothing, or part of the second layer riddle. Just something I thought of after a few minutes. I didn't have any insight about UNDERGRUUND, though.
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He intentionally misspelled some words to confuse cryptographers and not make it too simple.
Leonard Cohen fan? (Score:2)
First we take Manhattan [wikipedia.org]
Then we take Berlin!
(Kick-ass song, btw.)
Kryptos -- Section 2 - Coordinates (Score:4, Informative)
38.9518056N, 77.1455556W
-or- 38 57' 6.5"N, 77 8' 44"W
(+38 57' 6.50", -77 8' 44.00")
http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=en&ie=UTF8&msa=0&msid=104463936351270454677.00049586da73dc035492f&ll=38.952071,-77.145732&spn=0.000743,0.001695&t=h&z=20 [google.com]
Everybody already knew it was Berlin! (Score:1, Funny)
That's not the least bit helpful. Everyone knew those letters were Berlin. If only he had told us whether it is Irving, East, or New Hampshire.
dig! (Score:2)
So Solution 2 gives some coordinates that identify a point near the sculpture [arcticus.com], yet I can't find any mention of anyone taking a shovel to that location.
Has anyone been out there rooting around in the dirt?
The answer has to be a blindingly obvious "yes", but the internet fails to give me that answer...
Misdirection ? (Score:5, Interesting)
The message might well read something like : rememBER LINcoln's birthplace...
It's not in their best interest . . . (Score:2)
They need to maintain a facade of incompetence so their opponents will continue to underestimate them.
just wondering (Score:2)
I just have to say, shouldn't the CIA be just a tad bit embarrassed that they can't crack a piece of artwork that they commissioned and sits right in their own damn courtyard?
Re:just wondering (Score:5, Insightful)
Nope. The greatest fool can ask a question that the wisest man cannot answer.
It's incredible easy to make a cipher so convulated and impractical (e.g. encode by the phase of the moon determined by the fourteenth character, then transpose all vowels, add up the number of strokes within each letter using the Arial font, multiply those numbers by the number 10 places ahead of it, then look those up on a ceasar cipher) that it's boring and uninteresting to decipher it and pretty much "impossible". Unfortunately, it also becomes incredibly useless as a cipher then because it becomes tedious to communicate using it, and the security of a cipher has nothing to do with its difficulty of encryption or decryption procedure - you'll probably find that a couple of supercomputers could find enough patterns in the above "cipher" that they could find the right answers without having to even KNOW the phase of the moon.
The thing about mathematical ciphers is that the method is public and yet they are still incredibly difficult to decrypt. This isn't an interesting cipher, mathematically speaking, because the method is closed so it could be anything. All we have is some jumbled text and (presumably) a sensible answer that we're not privy to. It's more a children's puzzle than a cipher, just a very difficult one - because nobody actually uses this cipher to communicate (so the cipher can be unnecessarily complicated without actually being *secure*, the plaintext could well be complete junk, the message may even be erroneously encoded, and there's only a single - non-militarily-important - instance of an encoded text).
In short - nobody cares. It's like the book-competitions where someone buries treasure and publishes a book which "gives the details" of where it's buried. It's pretty much chance if you find it or not because there is no requirement for the answer to be logical, practical or even decryptable. The one I saw, you had to draw a line from the eye of a character on each artwork-strewn page, through their index finger, to a particular letter in a word on the outside of the page border, then interpret those clues which narrowed things down to an entire field somewhere in the UK - the "winner" was the author's former-flatmate's girlfriend.
The importance of a ciphered message is more related to its origin, the probability of it being an unintentional leak, the probability of it being militarily important, and other non-mathematical factors. Then, if you have the impetus, running it through a supercomputer with what little you know or (infinitely better) getting a couple more messages that use the same scheme and are likely to reveal commonalities. That's how we beat Engima. This is just a puzzle-book, and quite boring because it can actually just be gibberish and nobody would really care.
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This is the same reason Lost appealed to the masses, but not the thinking folk -- if you can throw arbitrary impossible bullshit in to "explain" something, it's not really an explanation. It became more like a bunch of kids playing Cops and Robbers with the one kid who decides he's got an alien spacecraft with a freeze ray that he can use at any point to immobilize his enemies. Call it a black swan if you want, but it certainly affects how interesting a story is.
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Err... so how was it possible to decode the other three sections then? Obviously it's not gibberish, it's intelligible English text encoded using familiar algorithms. And people ha
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Wow. I think I just touched on the *weirdest* nerve in existence.
Nobody was talking about the art of the sculpture. And in that respect, why on Earth would anyone really care if the code was "real" so long as it was representative? Also, the sculpture *did* have errors in its transcription - quite serious ones that the sculptor had to admit to - so it was probably never even double-checked as being a valid cipher (and therefore could easily be unsolvable due to a silly, simple transcription mistake). An
how ironic (Score:2)
Wh*n will th*s* p*opl* g*t a clu*?
Leaked hint: It's a vowel, not a, not i, not o, not u, and not sometimes y.
First time, eh? (Score:1, Informative)
At least, that's what I'd guess from how excited you sound about it. Congratulations, kiddo! Hope it was good for both of you.
Just a thought though, but I'm not entirely sure Slashdot is the best venue for bragging about it. A good chunk of us are old enough to have found out what sex produces (i.e. children), another chunk of us are (contrary to stereotypes) actually female, and some more of us have no idea what this "fucking" is all about anyway. Perhaps your friends would be more appreciative? Assum
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A good chunk of us are old enough to have found out what sex produces (i.e. children)
Only if you do it wrong.
Slashdaughters, and link (Score:2)
On the first point, might I suggest looking at the posting histories of Slashdot users such as Macgrrl [slashdot.org], AriaStar [slashdot.org], xirusmom [slashdot.org], and girlintraining [slashdot.org], among other possibilities [google.com] (though admittedly the username "girlintraining" might suggest someone not born to femininity; I'm honestly not sure).
On the second point, may I direct your attention to this most informative link [wikipedia.org], as requested. ;)
Cheers,
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Shaken, not stirred. (Score:2)
And, alas, my "on the second point" link was an extension of your joke. Dry humour so seldom finds a truly appreciative audience these days...
Cheers,
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sorry, but your right hand does not constitute a sexual partner, nor does use of it for self-gratification constitute sex.
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Then the right hand would fall under the "stranger" for you.
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the second, I'm afraid, will require empirical evidence to be proven as fact.
Well, it's slightly more polite put that way than "Tits or GTFO", but really, save that for 4Chan.
Re:First time, eh? (Score:5, Funny)
Well, I did the only sensible thing and entered it into WolframAlpha [wolframalpha.com] for analysis. So, at this point, I have determined that "fucking" is a very colloquial, informal intensifier with a Scrabble score of 17 that corresponds to the telephone keypad digits, 382-5464. I give up.
Re:i just fucked a girl (Score:5, Funny)
Ironically, this is actually the message encoded in Kryptos.
Re:i just fucked a girl (Score:5, Funny)
No, that's clearly not right, see:
I just fucked a girl in her pussy! more than you loser-ass fuckBERLINckbeards will ever do.
get some sunlight you stupid fuckers!! hahahaha
Go back to cryptanalysis school, n00b.
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I suppose you're right in that I shouldn't lecture people about what they ought to find funny. I was just frustrated that some people would interpret my comment as hate-speech rather than simply being a bad joke.
Ironically, at the time of this writing, my original comment has received just one "-1 Troll" mod, followed by three "+1 Funny" mods. I'm not quite sure what to make of that...*ugh* I really just want this thread to be over.