Hugh Pickens writes "Wired reports that as neural devices become more complicated — and go wireless — some scientists say the risks of 'brain hacking' should be taken seriously. '"Neural devices are innovating at an extremely rapid rate and hold tremendous promise for the future," said computer security expert Tadayoshi Kohno of the University of Washington. "But if we don't start paying attention to security, we're worried that we might find ourselves in five or 10 years saying we've made a big mistake."' For example, the next generation of implantable devices to control prosthetic limbs will likely include wireless controls that allow physicians to remotely adjust settings on the machine. If neural engineers don't build in security features such as encryption and access control, an attacker could hijack the device and take over the robotic limb." Relatedly, several users have written to tell us that science may be closer to the science fiction "mind wipe" than previously thought. Put this all together and I welcome the next step in social networking; letting the cloud drive my limbs around town via a live webcam and then wiping the memory from my brain. Who has MyLimb.com parked and is willing to deal?
I was just thinking the good news is that if somebody hacks my brain, they will just find all the information from the internet that I have filled it with.
goatse,
eel soup,
two girls one cup,
kids in sandbox,
dump.jpg (ok that one was off of a Hermes II bbs back in the day, not the internet)
I mean if they want that stuff... they can have it.
"Still finding it ridiculous that the Major was essentially wearing a one-piece bathing suit and leather jacket as her uniform in the GITS tv series."
But we're talking about fantasy here and money, the outfit was to draw attention and $$$. Anything to get the biggest audience possible. Doing a movie/story for ones art and vision is not appreciated by everybody and therein lies the rub.
If everyone could hack into any person's brain and have sex with whoever they want, then what kind of society would that be like? On one hand, some super hot chicks are going to be pretty busy, but on the other hand, you would be reprogrammed periodically to think that bigfoot was hot.
I think this was put in as colour in one of Neal Stephenson's novels (I think it was the Diamond Age) ; aha
Bud knew a guy like that who'd somehow gotten infected with a meme that ran advertisements for roach motels, in Hindi, superimposed on the bottom right-hand corner of his visual field, twenty-four hours a day, until the guy whacked himself.
Someone at work mentioned to me recently that it will be a scary day when someone can program your brain. Well I've already seen it happen. My local Walmart is in sort of a high-risk part of town, so the "greeters" will ask to see your receipt if you have any bulk items in your cart that aren't in bags. So people get used to having their receipt handy when they walk out the door. Now yesterday it was kind of busy, and one greeter to check receipts. Guess what I saw? A line of about 10 people waiting to show their receipt before leaving the store. Meanwhile I push my cart right around them (I've already waited in line for 25 minutes just to pay, I'm not going to wait again to leave the store). It appears that those in line were robots that have been programmed (conditioned) so much that they couldn't think of leaving without waiting to show their receipt. Keep in mind that there is not sign saying you have to show your receipt.
That people volunteer to shop at Walmart is sufficient evidence of programming. Every time I go to a {Walmart, Best Buy,...} I have a feeling that I'm the butt of a joke to see how much dignity you will resign for a couple of bucks. Kind of like a reality version of The Price Is Right in your own neighbourhood. Maybe I took too much acid.
They're not robots. They're exercising free will to make a choice you disagree with. They see it as an element of manners to show that they're not stealing, and for some reason they care about how they look to that greeter despite knowing they're not thieves. Let them get on with it without the name-calling.
Nope, they can't. The question, "can I look in your bag?"
is replied, at least by myself, with, "are you a police officer with a warrant?"
I've worked retail. You can't catch good shoplifters. You just have to let them go, focus on the paying customers, and accept the losses as the cost of doing business.
"You remember incorrectly. The purpose of receipts is so that they can verify that you have purchased the merchandise in your cart on exiting the store. Forcing you to do so before exiting is rather draconian, but they have every right to do so, should they choose."
Actually, they do not.
Only in a few states do the stores have some limited rights to detain you, and that is ONLY if they suspect you have shoplifted something, and they had better make damned they know you have or you can sue them pretty badly.
I don't put up with that receipt thing anywhere, with the exception of Sam's Club. I do believe I signed on the membership agreement (private club) that I would allow this. But any other public place, even if they post a sign on the store saying this policy, does not give them the right to stop you if you are not under suspicion of theft.
I walked out of Guitar Center awhile back, and the kid was almost coming after me "I have to check your receipt"...etc. I just kept walking and over my shoulder said, "No you do not, unless you suspect me of stealing something"...and with that said, he quickly shut up and went back inside. I wasn't a smartass about it, just calmly stated the facts and went about my way.
If you're going to be discussing "legal rights", you may want to mention the country and state where these "rights" are supposed to exist. Otherwise it's hard to prove yourself right (and the other poster wrong).
Am I the only person who notices that every single summary submitter tries to show off his nonexistent ability to be funny? This doesn't help the summary and every time I read a stupid joke in the summary like that, I have a mental facepalm. They make me feel embarrassed for the thread submitter, and it hurts; kind of like watching a really bad performance at a talent show.
Seriously, if you submit a thread, don't put a joke in it, because chances are your joke sucks and i
Which is why if/when direct brain IO is developed, you won't find me anywhere near it, unless I am in a situation where it is the only option to restore normal faculties (ie: injury or illness). Currently, when a power surge or an attack occurs against my device/computer the damage maxes out at the value of the device (assuming I'm backing up data). If a power surge or an attack occurs via a direct link hooked up to my brain, the damage is total.
That said, the article is still relevant because neuro-tech has great potential to increase the quality and length of life in ways currently not possible. As always, it's important to stop and think about the short/long term consequences of actions (novel thought).
How does an interface to a prosthetic limb somehow suggest a "mine whipe". Does my pedicure predict a lobotomy?
Come on, people. There is some fool snickering somewhere that the drunken brainstorm he posted somewhere has actually morphed into a story on Slashdot.
really? Are people this bored from being unemployed that they need to work on articles like this to pass the time. I'm disappointed with a side of disgruntled.
Brain Hacking I can see happening (taking control of someone's bionics), but doing the mindwipe is what I was taking aim at. TFA talks about rats getting their memories wiped, but I'd want to know more. Does the rat's basic personality stay intact? Did the rat relearn? Did the rat display the same actions after the removal of the enzyme?
(That'll teach me to take a moment and think before typing - let this be a lesson to you!)
Unless your soul is akin to say, Symantec or Norton's virus protection for your brain.. there to make you feel good, but utterly useless for real world application.
Okay, this only holds true IF we are truly biological machines with advanced programming. If we actually do have a soul, then this whole idea goes out the window (and a whole lot of other, much bigger problems come in).
I don't see how the soul comes into play here.
Correct me if I'm wrong (I have ZERO medical background), but throughout the years there have been examples of conditioned responses and hypnotism. Then there is shock therapy and some drugs to help wipe some thoughts and memories, and let's not forget about sleepwalking and sleepdriving.
If a person gets amnesia, does that mean the soul has left the body? If a person sleepwalks due to a personal problem or a medication reaction, does that mean during that time there is no soul? etc
Given enough time and advancement, who's to say that in 100 years that either a combination of the above couldn't take control of a person and wipe their memory afterwards. Especially once we start wiring hackable devices into our nervous system.
I find it interesting that you are so easily able to deny that something could not possibly be self-aware without a soul. Do you have any proof, any at all beyond hopes and dreams? Many modern philosophic theories of consciousness eliminate the necessity of the Cartesian theatre (I find Dennet's pretty compelling), and many experiments bear out a reality that would be quite bizarre if an external entity such as a soul really drove us.
As long as we are talking of merely feelings with no basis, I find no evidence to dissuade me that I am anything more than a meat machine with some clever biological and memetic tricks. I see no reason to increase the complexity of the system by necessitating that we have such (odd at least it seems to us) advanced biological machinery that is our brain with such complex parallel behaviour and yet it exists without purpose or meaning because it does nothing. Because requiring the existence of the soul which drives us means the brain is nothing, it serves no purpose. Why do you have it? Why does our body expend so much resources keeping it functioning? Our pure autonomic functions can be handled by the cerebellum and the spinal cord (and probably far less), the rest of it is totally meaningless.
Combine this with the fact that our brains share so many similarities with many of the animals around us, yet oddly (at least inasmuch as many humans find it necessary to place themselves on a higher pedestal than everything else around us) they have no soul, ought to make one stop and ponder again why one insists on declaring we have a soul and that is who we are and not the biological machine. Do elephants have souls? They are self aware, they recognise themselves in mirrors. Or do you subscribe to a school of thought where it would be impossible to say an elephant is self-aware yet will deny solipsism in the same breath?
If the soul was all that mattered, then if we smacked our head really hard and our brain was damaged, it would have no effect on our behavior. But we know that people with brain damage are severely impaired both physically and mentally. So if you can disrupt the impulses in the brain you could shut down a human. If you can control the impulses, you can control the human.
I am not saying people can't have souls, I am just saying the soul doesn't control our body.
Ummm, no, it really doesn't. Even if we do have a "soul," it has no known effect on how our bodies function. There are, however, records of people's personalities and memories having changed due to brain trauma and chemical alteration. Additionally, the "soul" has nothing to do with your body's motor control. We KNOW that electrical impulses control our limbs, we can trigger them, it's how a defibrillator works.
So exactly what part of this would the "soul" prevent from taking place?
It would be hard to do per genus proximum et differentia specifica... Let me just say that it's what creates time and space, enables you to make choices (free will) and controls the body via the brain.
Some people (like Dawkins, IIRC) like to say that the brain is an on-board computer, of sorts, for the body. It's a great analogy, because a computer is blind and inert without someone to either operate it or program it. The soul is the "user", what you experience is the "software", your body is the "hardware
By the time you have decent neural I/O, you'll have a world of simulators to choose from. Nobody's going to kidnap anybody if they can experience the same thing with a cheap simulation.
Encryption (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
goatse,
eel soup,
two girls one cup,
kids in sandbox,
dump.jpg (ok that one was off of a Hermes II bbs back in the day, not the internet)
I mean if they want that stuff... they can have it.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
It looks like someone already hacked your brain and implanted some nasti memes there.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Encryption (Score:5, Funny)
Forget that, I'm going to copy my brain and run it in a VM.
Parent
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
Suddenly a Tinfoil hat seems like common sense. (Score:4, Funny)
Goddamned, the unintended consequence of techonological evolution is that it makes every conspiracy theory ultimately more likely to do in the future.
How ironic... (Score:3, Interesting)
It is that ... by silently critiquing religion, you've fallen into your own self defined trap of "US or them"..
And, we might also note, that "threats against the afterlife" is essentially interchangable with "saving the planet"
a risk I'm willing to take (Score:4, Funny)
If it means that in the future our government will employ cyber-babes in ridiculous fuck-me outfits to fight crime.
(Still finding it ridiculous that the Major was essentially wearing a one-piece bathing suit and leather jacket as her uniform in the GITS tv series.)
Re: (Score:2)
"Still finding it ridiculous that the Major was essentially wearing a one-piece bathing suit and leather jacket as her uniform in the GITS tv series."
But we're talking about fantasy here and money, the outfit was to draw attention and $$$. Anything to get the biggest audience possible. Doing a movie/story for ones art and vision is not appreciated by everybody and therein lies the rub.
Here's a question... (Score:3, Funny)
If everyone could hack into any person's brain and have sex with whoever they want, then what kind of society would that be like? On one hand, some super hot chicks are going to be pretty busy, but on the other hand, you would be reprogrammed periodically to think that bigfoot was hot.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
on the other hand, you would be reprogrammed periodically to think that bigfoot was hot.
Of course bigfoot is hot - have you ever been inside out of those costumes?
Spam (Score:3, Interesting)
The big worry is not hacking, after all I am sure that there will be plenty of security software you can download, but rather the effects of spam.
Re:Spam (Score:5, Informative)
I think this was put in as colour in one of Neal Stephenson's novels (I think it was the Diamond Age) ; aha
Bud knew a guy like that who'd somehow gotten infected with a meme that ran advertisements for roach motels, in Hindi, superimposed on the bottom right-hand corner of his visual field, twenty-four hours a day, until the guy whacked himself.
Parent
OK, tell the truth (Score:3, Funny)
Who else has a clear mental picture of Dr. Strangelove being choked by his own (gloved) hand?
Re: (Score:2)
Personally I was thinking Ash.
"Then it came after me, it got into my hand and it went bad, so I lopped it off at the wrist."
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
I actually thought of that scene in Evil Dead 2 where Bruce Campbell's possessed hand starts beating him senseless...
Don't need electronics to hack someones brain (Score:5, Interesting)
Someone at work mentioned to me recently that it will be a scary day when someone can program your brain. Well I've already seen it happen. My local Walmart is in sort of a high-risk part of town, so the "greeters" will ask to see your receipt if you have any bulk items in your cart that aren't in bags. So people get used to having their receipt handy when they walk out the door. Now yesterday it was kind of busy, and one greeter to check receipts. Guess what I saw? A line of about 10 people waiting to show their receipt before leaving the store. Meanwhile I push my cart right around them (I've already waited in line for 25 minutes just to pay, I'm not going to wait again to leave the store). It appears that those in line were robots that have been programmed (conditioned) so much that they couldn't think of leaving without waiting to show their receipt. Keep in mind that there is not sign saying you have to show your receipt.
Re: (Score:3)
That people volunteer to shop at Walmart is sufficient evidence of programming. Every time I go to a {Walmart, Best Buy, ...} I have a feeling that I'm the butt of a joke to see how much dignity you will resign for a couple of bucks. Kind of like a reality version of The Price Is Right in your own neighbourhood. Maybe I took too much acid.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
They're not robots. They're exercising free will to make a choice you disagree with. They see it as an element of manners to show that they're not stealing, and for some reason they care about how they look to that greeter despite knowing they're not thieves. Let them get on with it without the name-calling.
Re:Don't need electronics to hack someones brain (Score:4, Interesting)
Nope, they can't. The question, "can I look in your bag?"
is replied, at least by myself, with, "are you a police officer with a warrant?"
I've worked retail. You can't catch good shoplifters. You just have to let them go, focus on the paying customers, and accept the losses as the cost of doing business.
Parent
Re:Don't need electronics to hack someones brain (Score:4, Insightful)
Actually, they do not.
Only in a few states do the stores have some limited rights to detain you, and that is ONLY if they suspect you have shoplifted something, and they had better make damned they know you have or you can sue them pretty badly.
I don't put up with that receipt thing anywhere, with the exception of Sam's Club. I do believe I signed on the membership agreement (private club) that I would allow this. But any other public place, even if they post a sign on the store saying this policy, does not give them the right to stop you if you are not under suspicion of theft.
I walked out of Guitar Center awhile back, and the kid was almost coming after me "I have to check your receipt"...etc. I just kept walking and over my shoulder said, "No you do not, unless you suspect me of stealing something"...and with that said, he quickly shut up and went back inside. I wasn't a smartass about it, just calmly stated the facts and went about my way.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Jokes in Summaries (Score:2, Informative)
Who has MyLimb.com parked and is willing to deal?
Ah ha ha ha ha ha!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Am I the only person who notices that every single summary submitter tries to show off his nonexistent ability to be funny? This doesn't help the summary and every time I read a stupid joke in the summary like that, I have a mental facepalm. They make me feel embarrassed for the thread submitter, and it hurts; kind of like watching a really bad performance at a talent show.
Seriously, if you submit a thread, don't put a joke in it, because chances are your joke sucks and i
Ghost in the Shell (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Everybody else thought the reference was too obvious, and didn't want to be the dork thinking he was being all clever by posting it.
No matrix for me thankyou (Score:3, Insightful)
Which is why if/when direct brain IO is developed, you won't find me anywhere near it, unless I am in a situation where it is the only option to restore normal faculties (ie: injury or illness). Currently, when a power surge or an attack occurs against my device/computer the damage maxes out at the value of the device (assuming I'm backing up data). If a power surge or an attack occurs via a direct link hooked up to my brain, the damage is total.
That said, the article is still relevant because neuro-tech has great potential to increase the quality and length of life in ways currently not possible. As always, it's important to stop and think about the short/long term consequences of actions (novel thought).
Future FUD Fantastic (Score:4, Insightful)
Realistically, how hard would it be to include an OFF switch on the external interface used for doctor diagnostics?
I mean, for pete sake people, what possible gain would there be in trying to break into a mechanical leg?
Can you take any part of that to the bank? There is no money to follow. There is no information to gain.
Do you see anyone hacking your IP Oven, or you IP Coffee maker? http://workingmomwa.blogspot.com/2008/06/coffee-maker-needs-security-update.html [blogspot.com]
How does an interface to a prosthetic limb somehow suggest a "mine whipe". Does my pedicure predict a lobotomy?
Come on, people. There is some fool snickering somewhere that the drunken brainstorm he posted somewhere has actually morphed into a story on Slashdot.
Re:Future FUD Fantastic (Score:4, Insightful)
What money is there in vandalism? None.
The answer of your question of why anybody would do this: because they can.
Parent
Re:Future FUD Fantastic (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re:Future FUD Fantastic (Score:4, Insightful)
Notoriety..?
"Oh, that guy, he's the one designed that prosthetic limb worm... You know, the virus that made prosthetic limbs wiggle around?"
Parent
Langford Fractal Basilisk (Score:2)
Better get in practice... start a shudder club today!
Re: (Score:2)
Different Kinds of Darkness is still to this day one of my favorite stories.
The CIA has had this tech for years (Score:3, Funny)
sigh (Score:2)
really? Are people this bored from being unemployed that they need to work on articles like this to pass the time. I'm disappointed with a side of disgruntled.
I can't wait ... (Score:2)
Future Husband Excuse... (Score:3, Funny)
But honey, it wasn't really me! Someone hacked into my brain and *MADE* me do that!
Ack, should have aimed this at 'Snow Crash' (Score:3, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
1. after all in Soviet Russia tin foil makes people into hats 2. 3. profit!
you must be new here, and so on.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:No... not buying this at all (Score:5, Insightful)
Okay, this only holds true IF we are truly biological machines with advanced programming. If we actually do have a soul, then this whole idea goes out the window (and a whole lot of other, much bigger problems come in).
I don't see how the soul comes into play here.
Correct me if I'm wrong (I have ZERO medical background), but throughout the years there have been examples of conditioned responses and hypnotism. Then there is shock therapy and some drugs to help wipe some thoughts and memories, and let's not forget about sleepwalking and sleepdriving.
If a person gets amnesia, does that mean the soul has left the body?
If a person sleepwalks due to a personal problem or a medication reaction, does that mean during that time there is no soul?
etc
Given enough time and advancement, who's to say that in 100 years that either a combination of the above couldn't take control of a person and wipe their memory afterwards. Especially once we start wiring hackable devices into our nervous system.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Why would you believe in souls? Where does the program go when you turn it off? That great hard drive in the sky?
Re:No... not buying this at all (Score:5, Interesting)
I find it interesting that you are so easily able to deny that something could not possibly be self-aware without a soul. Do you have any proof, any at all beyond hopes and dreams? Many modern philosophic theories of consciousness eliminate the necessity of the Cartesian theatre (I find Dennet's pretty compelling), and many experiments bear out a reality that would be quite bizarre if an external entity such as a soul really drove us.
As long as we are talking of merely feelings with no basis, I find no evidence to dissuade me that I am anything more than a meat machine with some clever biological and memetic tricks. I see no reason to increase the complexity of the system by necessitating that we have such (odd at least it seems to us) advanced biological machinery that is our brain with such complex parallel behaviour and yet it exists without purpose or meaning because it does nothing. Because requiring the existence of the soul which drives us means the brain is nothing, it serves no purpose. Why do you have it? Why does our body expend so much resources keeping it functioning? Our pure autonomic functions can be handled by the cerebellum and the spinal cord (and probably far less), the rest of it is totally meaningless.
Combine this with the fact that our brains share so many similarities with many of the animals around us, yet oddly (at least inasmuch as many humans find it necessary to place themselves on a higher pedestal than everything else around us) they have no soul, ought to make one stop and ponder again why one insists on declaring we have a soul and that is who we are and not the biological machine. Do elephants have souls? They are self aware, they recognise themselves in mirrors. Or do you subscribe to a school of thought where it would be impossible to say an elephant is self-aware yet will deny solipsism in the same breath?
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
If you have soul you've already been hacked. By God.
Re:No... not buying this at all (Score:4, Insightful)
I am not saying people can't have souls, I am just saying the soul doesn't control our body.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
So exactly what part of this would the "soul" prevent from taking place?
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
please define 'soul'
It would be hard to do per genus proximum et differentia specifica... Let me just say that it's what creates time and space, enables you to make choices (free will) and controls the body via the brain.
Some people (like Dawkins, IIRC) like to say that the brain is an on-board computer, of sorts, for the body. It's a great analogy, because a computer is blind and inert without someone to either operate it or program it. The soul is the "user", what you experience is the "software", your body is the "hardware
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
By the time you have decent neural I/O, you'll have a world of simulators to choose from. Nobody's going to kidnap anybody if they can experience the same thing with a cheap simulation.