CA Legislature Torpedoes IT Overtime 555
An anonymous reader writes to mention that a recent piece of California legislation is enabling tech firms to avoid paying their workers overtime. Originally designed to deal with bonds for children's hospitals, bill AB10 was completely rewritten to prevent lawsuit damages over overtime nonpayment. "'This is the first time that the Legislature has done a takeaway of the rights of private-sector workers as part of the budget deal,' said Caitlin Vega of the California Labor Federation. 'We just think it is wrong. We think it will really hurt the groups of workers who will be expected to work through the weekend and not get paid.'"
Re:well (Score:5, Informative)
When I used to be a nurse (not many years ago), I built up six weeks worth of unpaid overtime, or 'time in lieu' as they called it, during a period of low staffing.
I was supposed to be either paid it or given an equal amount of time off, but what actually happened was they said it was too much, wiped it out and gave me a long weekend off. They hadn't seemed to mind the potential cost whilst working me half to death and taking advantage of the legal requirement to not leave patients without care to force me to work 20 hour shifts.
I left shortly after and gave up nursing, just one of many people leaving in droves due to this sort of thing and other pay related nonsense in the UK.
Now I'm a programmer If any employer tries that crap on me again I'd quit and go elsewhere.
Try science (Score:5, Informative)
If you think IT is bad, try biomedical sciences, medicine, and science academia.
The concept of overtime does not exist for >90% of the workers in these fields. It's not uncommon to ASSUME that a 12-hour day is normal, at 6 days per week.
And yes, I am including students... because if your training extends into your 30s, you're an employee.
Oh, and by the way, ask your nearest ER resident (or even a junior attending) when was the last time they had a 40-hour week. Most of the time, the answer will be "high school".
Re:You mean... (Score:5, Informative)
No, capitalism doesn't have to do with being rich. The hatred of the rich is called "class envy" and it is a principal component of socialism. Capitalism is what RESULTS in some people being rich, but to claim that the system is good only for the rich is incorrect.
Capitalism is based on supply and demand. That includes services. If your services are not in demand, then you don't make a lot of money. If you go to your employer and say "I want overtime pay" and they can find someone else to provide the same service without paying overtime, then they'll hire him and fire you. In short, the supply is greater than the demand. There are more people offering to work than there are positions. That holds true for any job. If someone will accept lower pay than what you want, they'll get the job and you won't, all else being equal.
The times it doesn't hold true are when there are non-capitalist distortions to the system. E.g., a labor union that will coerce non-union members into not filling the gap in supply when union workers strike, or have in other ways artificially limited the supply.
In essence, if you want to blame anyone for your not being rich, blame the other people who will do the same job you do for less money. It's not the fault of the employer who seeks to lower costs and give the investors a return on their investment, it's the guy who lives next to you who will accept an offer to do your job for less than you. If every employer over-paid all of their employees, prices would skyrocket so that nobody could afford anything and pay would have to go up to match. Or investors would get no return on their investment in a company, no payback for taking the chance, and would stop investing. Fewer companies would exist. Fewer jobs, higher prices ...
Before you claim that you'd never do that kind of thing, how about this? You are looking for a lawn maintenance company so you don't have to mow the damn lawn every two days during the summer. There are two companies in town. Both have the same abilities and long lists of glowing referrals. One wants 15% less for the same job. Who do you hire? Are you altruistic enough to say "I'll pay more", or do you say "cheap is good"? Isn't paying less based on this example of unbridled capitalism good for you? Is it good for you because you are rich, or is it good for you because you save money and may become richer?
Re:I must disagree (Score:2, Informative)
Bullshit. You can't pay people that perform menial tasks non-menial wages simply because they should be able to live the lifestyle that you think they should be able to live. Arbitrarily attempting to raise the cost of labor will lead to automation and outsourcing. It's not like the factory that you're describing is unable to attract staff, people are willing to work for those wages.
Re:Cry me a river (Score:3, Informative)
WTF? Really Hollywood? That's gotta be one of the worst neighborhoods in LA.
I agree that Dallas is a much better market than LA, but in Dallas the same programmer making $75k in LA, is making $50k.
And seriously, who do you know making less than $100k/year * 2 people that "take extended vacations" and have "$30,000 cars"?? I seriously don't know anyone.
$1200 for mortgage in the suburbs of LA? HAH!. Even in Riverside county (which sucks), you're paying $400-500k for a house (used, sucky house).
Yeah in Dallas, you can go to Carrollton and get a house for $150-200k and its really nice, but like I said, that's not the market we're talking about.
Re:Cry me a river (Score:3, Informative)
But we're not talking about one person, the problem comes with people that have families to support.
Presume an average family of 4. First, account for taxes, health insurance, worker's comp, etc fees. From $75k/yr, you're left with $50k/yr. Next, you're probably going to want a 3 bedroom home (2 adults, 2 kids). In areas with IT jobs, that's going to run you about $2,500/month, or $30k/yr, subtract auto insurance ($1500-$2000/yr for one vehicle), commuting fuel ($2500/yr with a reasonably fuel efficient vehicle and a commute of only 30 miles each way, or train/parking fees, remember that's only $10/working day), utilities - gas, power, water ($2000/yr - I'm not sure how energy rates in CA are at the moment, this is probably very conservative), food ($10,000 for a family of 4, based on national average food spent per person per year), vehicle ownership/maintenance costs ($4000/yr in payments and/or repairs). We've now gone into the red by $500/year, and that's just the obvious big ticket items off the top of my head. No savings, no movies, no recreation for a single-worker family of four in this scenario.
A big portion of this is the obscene housing rates right now in CA, dropping them from $2,500 to $2,000/month would save $6,000 a year, making $75k/yr for a middle class standard of living manageable again, if you're ok with only having one vehicle. Unfortunately, the numbers mean that today, in most cases a family of four will end up requiring both parents to work just to make ends meet.
Now don't forget, the second parent probably isn't going to take home as much as the first (honestly, in most 2 adult families, one adult has higher earning potential than the other, simply by virtue of different interests and training, even ignoring gender issues) and taxes will go up if you have 2 people working because you're in a higher tax bracket now. So presume the second earner makes $50,000, now your family brings in $80,000 take home pay (after taxes, insurance, fees, etc). That's an extra $30,000/yr, but now we have daycare ($10,000/yr, presuming one's of school age), another vehicle ($4000 maintenance/payment + $2500 fuel + $1500 insurance) leaving us $11,500/year (just under $1000/month) including the -$500 from the previous paragraph. Still barely enough for any substantial savings, but at least its manageable. Incidentally, this means that the minimum the second wage-earner can make is $30,000/year ($15/hr) for the second job to cover its own costs.
Re:It's time to start a union how long before more (Score:2, Informative)
Ha! You're delusional.
I'm a Java developer and DBA, and since I work for the government, I'm in a strong union as well (we have over 50,000 members). I've worked both union jobs and nonunion jobs, and let me tell you, you have NO IDEA what you're missing. You think you're bragging, but really you're flashing this huge neon sign over your head; it reads "NOOB!"
I get paid around 70K for a strict 9 to 5, monday through friday job, with NO OVERTIME REQUIRED, incredibly good health, dental, and vision plans, almost four weeks vacation per year, PLUS five personal days, PLUS 2 1/2 weeks of sick leave, PLUS education benefits.
I'm responsible for about a million dollars' worth of hardware and software, and my cubicle is more like an office -- it's ten feet wide and deep, with thick, soundproofed walls six feet tall, complete with windows and walnut trim. I'm sitting in a genuine Herman Miller Aeron by the way. And the agency buys me all my books. If I need software to get my work done, I ask my boss, and I get it, usually within a day.
Everyone in the office is well rested and well adjusted, because we SLEEP AT NIGHT, and get to spend our evenings with our families. And the work we do is interesting; my current project is a 31KLOC Java desktop application involving data processing and calculations. I'm using JDK6 and NetBeans, with Oracle Application Server as a servlet engine for some of the server side stuff. It's a blast.
Go ahead. Tell me how great your private sector, non union job is. I like a good laugh.
Re:Yes (Score:4, Informative)
You are parroting what you have been taught to believe.Democrats do not believe in self sufficiency less than Republicans. What we do believe is that some people are truly unable to take care of themselves and we have a deep moral obligation to care for them as if they were our favorite family member.
Re:Hurts the economy, too (Score:3, Informative)
Yes, I have checked...
To qualify for the computer employee exemption, the following tests must be met:
* The employee must be compensated either on a salary or fee basis (as defined in the regulations) at a rate not less than $455 per week or, if compensated on an hourly basis, at a rate not less than $27.63 an hour;
Yes, I'm salaried and I make over this amount.
* The employee must be employed as a computer systems analyst, computer programmer, software engineer or other similarly skilled worker in the computer field performing the duties described below;
Yep, I'm a Sr. Programmer/Analyst, and no, it's not just a title.
* The employeeâ(TM)s primary duty must consist of:
1) The application of systems analysis techniques and procedures, including consulting with users, to determine hardware, software or system functional specifications;
Yep, that's the analyst part of my title.
2) The design, development, documentation, analysis, creation, testing or modification of computer systems or programs, including prototypes, based on and related to user or system design specifications;
Yep, that's the programmer part of my title.
3) The design, documentation, testing, creation or modification of computer programs related to machine operating systems; or
4) A combination of the aforementioned duties, the performance of which requires the same level of skills.
So yes, I really am exempt under the (N)FLSA.