Cuil Proves the Bubble Is Back 496
MattSparkes writes "Cuil may only have launched this week, but it seems that they're already enjoying late-'90s boom-style comforts. 'Lunch is ordered in every single day. Huge fridges burst with snacks and drinks. Bowls of strawberries and muffins lie around the rest area. The company pays for a personal trainer and gym membership for everyone. A doctor calls round each Friday, after the weekly barbeque, to see if everyone's in good health. Employees drift in an out at times that suit themselves.' Seems like an awesome place to work, but how long will their $25 million VC funding last at this rate?"
Cuil Proves Nothing (Score:5, Insightful)
Cuil Proves the Bubble Is Back
First of all, a single anecdote does not prove anything. If you included eBay's Skype deal or Google's YouTube deal ... wait, scratch that last one. See, there's constantly non-prudent business deals and every now and then you see a real whopper.
Lunch is ordered in every single day. Huge fridges burst with snacks and drinks. Bowls of strawberries and muffins lie around the rest area. The company pays for a personal trainer and gym membership for everyone. A doctor calls round each Friday, after the weekly barbecue, to see if everyone's in good health. Employees drift in an out at times that suit themselves.
Do you think that this is what caused the dot com bubble? Do you think the vast majority of people were living like this when it burst? I'm no economist but I thought that the problem wasn't with how the IT and Web Site companies were spending their money but rather what the customers they found were giving them money for--basically nothing. A few HTML pages? Not even worth my time to read?
$25 million in venture capital is nothing these days. Let them burn it. Yeah, we'll all be laughing a couple months from now when they're busting their asses to find some income--or maybe they are correct in thinking they are the next Google. Hell, Slashdot ran a story [slashdot.org] reporting them to index more than Google. With the kind of press they achieved, maybe they're right to live like royalty for a bit?
Does anyone look back on Google and say "They hired a massage artist? Proof the bubble is back!" No, because they thought they were going to be big and they were.
You want to prevent another bubble? Don't take a job where you're not sure how you or any of your coworkers draw revenue from real customers who in turn receive some service or product that makes complete sense. That's how you prevent a bubble. And unless you're part of the 1% calling the shots on how to spend money, you needn't worry about how other companies spend their money. This frivolous spending should just make it easier for Google to beat their bottom line and steal customers back. And if they can't, well then let Cuil rake large piles of capital together and set them afire to their heart's content.
I'm not sure this is as good as it sounds (Score:5, Insightful)
I know that many people will say that perks like these are only positives because they can only make people happier about their job, which is good for the employee and good for the employer as well.
I would like to suggest that it's not all roses in reality. I have worked at places where the employer provided lots of cushy perks and I found that it tends to attract a certain type of employee: the type who wants the job not because they like the work, but because they like the perks. In my experience this type of employee is not the best for the company; and what's worse, the general working environment tends to become antiproductive even for employees who otherwise would be more productive.
I have found that in Silicon Valley companies, there is almost a sense of pride taken in how unstructured the working environment is. The "cool, hip" companies are the ones that encourage their employees to engage in nerf gun fights, have parties every Friday, and generally play around on company time. Sometimes it is hard for me to believe that these companies can be globally competitive, but maybe companies all over the world are all doing the same things.
I personally believe that there is a fine balance between too much carrot, and too much stick, but that the answer certainly does not come from throwing the stick out completely. I am most motivated when there are expectations of me, and I have worked at companies where expectations are disturbingly low. I honestly believe that most people, even if they won't admit it, need a bit of structure in their working environment to be most productive.
There is definitely a desire for people to believe that the best working environment is the one where the employer puts the least demands on its employees and gives all of the best perks possible, and that such an environment would make everyone more productive if only employers weren't so pig-headed and could just realize that ... but I think this is really wishful thinking. It actually worries me that software companies in the USA are often like this because somewhere there must be companies that Just Get Shit Done (India maybe?) without all of the frivolities and eventually, they're going to dominate. And I want the software industry in the USA to stay healthy because that's how I earn my living.
By the way, I think that it would be hard to out-cushy Google. Their campus is like Club Med and I have a hard time believing that they get anything close to maximum productivity out of their workforce because of it.
Posting AC because obviously I don't want my current or past employers or coworkers to somehow get word of this and get pissed off at me.
This isn't that unusual (Score:4, Insightful)
From what I heard, they had $33 million in capital, strawberries, checkups and BBQs don't use that kind of cash. Over staffing will however. Nothing in this article makes me think they're doing anything over the top like private jet rides to Las Vegas.
If the bubble's back, it will burst soon (Score:5, Insightful)
From my experience with using Cuil for a few days, it is utterly and completely useless in its present form. Yes it's nice visually, but it's a search engine got heaven's sake - visually pleasant is nothing if the searches don't return anything useful.
Needs a lot of work (Score:4, Insightful)
I think there will be a pop.
Have you tried it? Part of the draw may be the speed and the images next to the search results, but realistically, not really the best results, and the pictures that come up on the results are stock photos - not any relation to the site content at all. (if you have your own domain, search for it and see what I am talking about)
Seriously? (Score:2, Insightful)
It does make you wonder though if the Google lovefest is over. Now that they are a publicly traded company their only obligation is to their shareholders and as a publicly traded company they should probably change their motto to "We do less evil than everyone else".
Makes you wonder if all the attention to Cuil just brings up the fact that maybe people are starting to turn on Google and why not? Maybe they're getting TOO much power. With that being said, more power to Cuil.
Is this unusual? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:I'm not sure this is as good as it sounds (Score:5, Insightful)
I think there is a balance that is needed. A boring, rigid office will stifle interest and energy, but if it's too silly an office then it's hard to concentrate when the time is right.
Granted, I've never seen companies pay for daily muffins and stuff (i wonder how many aren't eaten?), but letting your employees have flex time usually lowers stress levels, especially for those with kids.
Re:This isn't that unusual (Score:3, Insightful)
These perks are fairly cheap, vs. all the other expenses that go on. These type of things probably account for an extra $15 a day per employee That can be made up by improved productivity by the workers less sick days etc... The boom times had this plus paying a basic Web Developer 100k a year, that is without Javascript, Flash, etc. Just doing "HTML" in frontpage.
Carrot and Stick (Score:5, Insightful)
The only carrot I have ever seen is a paycheck, everything else is a stick.
Re:Cuil Proves Nothing (Score:0, Insightful)
Cuil Proves the Bubble Is Back
First of all, a single anecdote does not prove anything. If you included eBay's Skype deal or Google's YouTube deal ... wait, scratch that last one. See, there's constantly non-prudent business deals and every now and then you see a real whopper.
Lunch is ordered in every single day. Huge fridges burst with snacks and drinks. Bowls of strawberries and muffins lie around the rest area. The company pays for a personal trainer and gym membership for everyone. A doctor calls round each Friday, after the weekly barbecue, to see if everyone's in good health. Employees drift in an out at times that suit themselves.
Do you think that this is what caused the dot com bubble? Do you think the vast majority of people were living like this when it burst? I'm no economist but I thought that the problem wasn't with how the IT and Web Site companies were spending their money but rather what the customers they found were giving them money for--basically nothing. A few HTML pages? Not even worth my time to read? $25 million in venture capital is nothing these days. Let them burn it. Yeah, we'll all be laughing a couple months from now when they're busting their asses to find some income--or maybe they are correct in thinking they are the next Google. Hell, Slashdot ran a story [slashdot.org] reporting them to index more than Google. With the kind of press they achieved, maybe they're right to live like royalty for a bit? Does anyone look back on Google and say "They hired a massage artist? Proof the bubble is back!" No, because they thought they were going to be big and they were. You want to prevent another bubble? Don't take a job where you're not sure how you or any of your coworkers draw revenue from real customers who in turn receive some service or product that makes complete sense. That's how you prevent a bubble. And unless you're part of the 1% calling the shots on how to spend money, you needn't worry about how other companies spend their money. This frivolous spending should just make it easier for Google to beat their bottom line and steal customers back. And if they can't, well then let Cuil rake large piles of capital together and set them afire to their heart's content.
you are a real pro.
Re:If the bubble's back, it will burst soon (Score:5, Insightful)
Not for long... (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:I'm not sure this is as good as it sounds (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:I'm not sure this is as good as it sounds (Score:5, Insightful)
They'll be gone within 2 years (Score:2, Insightful)
I've tried their "search" engine. I can get better and faster results from a printed telephone book. They may be made up of intelligent, educated people, but they need to get someone with brains on board to perform a complete rewrite of their search algorithms ASAP. I don't see their VC investors being too happy right now and in the near future they're going to be pissed.
I'd like to see some stats to see if they are even getting any traffic now that people have seen how worthless their search results are.
Sure it does (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:I figured out their business plan: (Score:3, Insightful)
These startups are notorious for their vague business plans. They don't take the time to do the math. They just kind of give their impressions of how they think their revenue will add up. Sheesh!
Re:The bubble is back! (Score:3, Insightful)
I dunno if it's really at that great at club fed... i mean, that spammer went *wacko* there...
What the hell is selling short, anyway?
Re:If the bubble's back, it will burst soon (Score:3, Insightful)
Maybe it's not a lie, and they just index all the link farms to which Google give the go-by.
"Number of web pages indexed" is a completely useless metric on the modern internet.
Re:I'm not sure this is as good as it sounds (Score:5, Insightful)
To paraphrase the parent and add my own perspective: the perks aren't the problem if the people are productive.
Lunch ordered in costs maybe $7 to $15 a head, and unless your employees would be bringing brown bags and eating them at their desk, saves at least 30 minutes of travel and waiting time to and from getting lunch. So, call cost of lunch $11, in return for 30 minutes of productivity - how many of your employees earn less than $22 an hour? And, those that do earn less than $22 an hour probably really appreciate the free lunch, possibly enough that they won't be jumping ship to a company down the street that might pay them $2 an hour more.... Most Google'ers are notoriously underpaid on a cash basis.
Free gym membership - $30 per month - this one is a little more esoteric, and I can see how working out actually takes time away from working on other things, but if the gym is conveniently located to work, it discourages people from getting a gym membership near their home, makes their life more work-centric, and possibly improves their cardio-vascular health - which actually does have a direct positive effect on cerebral productivity.... Similarly for the doctor on-site one day a week, convenient, health benefiting, time saving, and the cost is near trivial when you compare it to the benefits...
Now, this is all moot if your employees simply show up to take advantage of the benefits and don't actually do anything productive otherwise... but, these are likely the same employees you find at perkless companies who spend their time surfing the web, making personal phone calls, and leaving their post to run errands 10 hours a week and more. (and posting lengthy responses on /. (oops!)).
The proof is not the perks... (Score:3, Insightful)
...the proof is that they launched the site without anyone noticing that it basically doesn't work.
Just one example, from a half-an-hour spent playing with it trying to find something, anything it did better than Google. There is a humongous auto dealership in the Pacific Northwest named Lithia Motors, so big it's listed on the NYSE, stock symbol LAD. If you do a Cuil search on Lithia Motors, the hits that come up on the first page include a Wikipedia article about Lithia Motors, a Reuters report, a news item about its expansion in Iowa, its rank among America's Most Admired companies... every darned thing.
Every darn thing except: the website for Lithia Motors.
Just guessing at the URL and typing "lithia" into the browser's address field works better than using Cuil.
Shades of the bad old days when MBAs called the shots and didn't bother their pretty little heads over product details. Who cared about the product itself, when all that mattered was the pitch?
I can just imagine the pitch for Cuil. Imagine a search engine that indexes more than Google, works better than Google, and is staffed by top-notch Google expatriates.
What I can't imagine is why they unveiled it before it was working. "You only have one chance to make a first impression." They've managed to garner so much publicity that almost anyone potentially interested in it has given it a try... and the first impressions and word-of-mouth are so bad that IMHO if they ever do get it working, their only chance will be to relaunch under a different name.
Re:How Long? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:The bubble is back! (Score:1, Insightful)
you must be new here.
Re:Cuil Proves Nothing (Score:3, Insightful)
Your post isn't exactly on topic, but as I can afford a downmodding I'll respond.
I don't care if some jackass buys a house he can't afford.
How about when "some jackass" like me CAN afford a house, but his wife and her job leaves him and his teenaged daughters for another man, and he is left raising and supporting those daughters without her income or help, and loses the house that he no longer can afford on his single salary? Or some "jackass" not like me gets his job outsourced? Or gets crippled and can't do that job any more? You might try being a little less judgemental there, sparky. BTW calling someone "jackass" just might get you modded "flamebait". Try to be a bit more civil; I was insulted by your callous, judgemental, ignorant comment.
I do care when that leads to bank failures government bailouts and a stagnant economy.
The stagnant economy isn't a result of bank failures or government bailouts, but is caused by the fact that gasoline prices have quadrupled since the oil barons moved into the White House. With fuel so expensive nobody can afford much of anything else. The extra three dollars I have to spend on that gallon of gasoline is lunch at McDonald's I won't be buying. That is what is stagnating the economy - everybody is broke, thanks to the price of oil. That, in fact, probably is a contributing factor to some losing their homes.
Likewise, I don't care if some douchebag internet company has cool perks.
You should care; where do you think they're getting their funding? Yep, those banks that are failing and getting bailed out by the government.
What's The Big Deal (Score:2, Insightful)
Yes, it looks nice. Yes, it's got a hip image. But it has nothing that will put a dent in any of the major search engines usage.
I'd call it a flash in the pan if it was bright enough for anybody to see.
Re:The bubble is back! (Score:1, Insightful)
and creating "virtual" stocks that you then sell short
Worse than that, you never deliver any of the shares to the buyers, and return the stock you borrowed back to the original owner. No money changes hands (so it's "not fraud" lol), you're out nothing, but the stock's value has been reduced, all because it appears to "the market" that someone is trying to dump a whole lot of the stock for cheap, often triggering a lot of automatic bail-out trades driving the stock down.
Re:Cuil Proves Nothing (Score:4, Insightful)
I did a Cuil search on my name the other day, just to try it out, and it didn't seem to make a difference whether I used quotes or not. They seem to be the only super-hyped search engine out there that doesn't have any search options.
If you ask me, their whole business plan is to live like kings until the VC runs out, declare a whopping big loss due to "the uncertainties of the market", then sell the book rights to "How You Can Legally Steal $30 Million from VC Suckers".
Re:Cuil Proves Nothing (Score:4, Insightful)
Not to be cruel, but yes, you can't afford your house anymore. You got shafted - no doubt. But lots of people do. I can't support every case of bad luck with my tax dollars.
I believe you missed the implosion of the housing bubble, the credit crunch and the fact that people have reached their spending limit - which is what has propped up the economy in the last 5-6 years. The price of oil is merely the icing on the (poisoned) cake.
VC funding is not like bank funding. Capital there comes from actual money reserves. VC do not generally work with leveraged money.
Re:Cuil Proves Nothing (Score:3, Insightful)
Its so amazing how some folks think Bush is an idiot, while at the same time think he is able to control everything so completely. (Here comes the figurehead argument, just watch)
Oil prices are high due primarily to Speculators who have bid up the market price, in anticipation of domestic supply shortages. The mere mention of offshore drilling off our coasts caused speculators to drop the barrel price by $10 in ONE DAY.
Everyone blames oil companies for their record profits, when they should be watching profit MARGINS, which have remained static for the past decade for the majors like Exxon and others.
I'm sorry for your plight, but you make it worse on yourself by not educating yourself on issues upon which you choose to comment.
Fuel is NOT expensive, except in relation to what you are USED to paying. Spend a day in Italy, and you would LOVE what gasoline costs back here in America.
Lastly, my poor, uniformed buddy;.... Gas prices have NOTHING to do which bank failures, nothing whatsoever. Banks fail when people cannot repay their loans, which is what happens when banks make bad loans to unqualified people, which happens when the federal government under Bill Clinton ORDERS banks to do just that, which is what created the Mortgage Brokerage industry, and the proceeding Real Estate bubble.
Flame away, I've got Karma to burn, baby!
Re:The bubble is back! (Score:5, Insightful)
Absolutely destructive and devaluing of stocks.
Funny, The Economist covered short-selling this week and discussed why selling, even naked short-selling, is good for the markets. Hmmm, who would I trust - the 150-year-old Economist, the best newsmagazine in the world, which is staffed by people who've forgotten more about economics and finance than the best MBAs ever learn, or...NPR, staffed by Vasser socialites whose dads contributed to political parties. Hmmm.
Re:How Long? (Score:3, Insightful)
Either that, or it's time to be grateful that your company decided not to contribute to one of the most absurdly wasteful excesses of modern society. My workplace is great, but we ditched those water bottles a while ago. I only wish every company would.