NYC Wants to Ban Geiger Counters

Ellis D. Tripp noted a village voice article about attempts in NYC to pass a law requiring permits for air monitoring devices including apparently geiger counters. I'm sure everyone will feel much safer not knowing anything.

I own a pocket gieger counter , made in Russia

[MrJerryNormandinSir]

The Russians mass produced personal gieger counters 6 months after the accident in Cherynobyl I bought one.
It saved my ass in the 90s when I took my Wife and Kids to Ruggle's Mine in Maine! Basically it's a mica mine but when were were hiking I told my kids not to touch the yellow chalk like rocks that some kid was using to write his name on in the caves. i took my gieger counter out and measured 350millirads. I told the kids parents that the rock was radioactive and they should take him to wash his hand and to change his clothes and get him in a tub. I believe the yellow rock was pitchblend.

heck.. I think a pocket gieger counter would come in handy.. why are they banning them? Is New York City's background radiation level higher than normal?

Re:RTFA

[bugs2squash]

If NYC is worried about bad geiger counters, have one of the universities create a low-cost calibration and test program and then offer all who pass an oppotunity to join in a web ring or something. Seems to me like a good way to get the city monitored for almost free and to give the authorities a heads up if there are lots of spurious readings. Sounds like a win-win to me, how expensive could a basic check be ?

Other equipment

[MrNougat]

They should equip everyone with Joo Janta 200 Super-Chromatic Peril Sensitive Sunglasses while they're at it.

Crossed wires

[zenopus]

They obviously have not heard of this initiative: http://mobile.slashdot.org/mobile/08/01/25/0514215.shtml [slashdot.org]

Re:RTFA

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't think there's anything wrong with preparing for 'hypothetical future situations'. In fact, I'm all for it. The problem in this particular instance is that they haven't properly thought about the severity of the situation they are trying to combat. Does the possible increase in false alarms warrant the outlawing of 'air monitoring devices'? I don't think it does. A better solution would be (as another poster mentioned) a fine for those who 'falsly alarm' :D. However, I think there is no need for such a fine until the number of false alarms involving 'air monitoring devices' becomes problematic.

Their solution for the (currently nonexistant) problem would probably cause more panic:
1) person with (illegal) 'air monitoring device' detects problem
2) person informs others
3) panic
4) government officals say 'no problem'
5) many idiots think there is a conspiracy

as opposed to:

4) government officals and many independent researchers say 'no problem'
5) three idiots think there is a conspiracy

In both cases,
6) ???
7) profit
applies :D

Re:Chemical Dectectors....

[batquux]

Don't forget noses. They can detect all sorts of hazardous chemicals.

Re:Brooklyn's Nuclear Fears & Community Mental

[gnick]

There are many such groups across the country - Most of whom seem to be uninformed and alarmist folks that are frightened of the nuclear boogey-man and want to stop anything that may have been in contact with a stray neutron. There's a group largely centered in Santa Fe, NM [lasg.org] that goes around Los Alamos taking counts on plants and such and then posting pictures [lasg.org] of background radiation rates on their web-site to incite fear. Admittedly, some dirt piles are hotter than others - Just like everywhere else in the world - But not terribly frightening. One ironic point is that the background radiation is actually higher in Santa Fe due in large part to the difference in ground-matter. It's actually gone far enough that the legal maximum rad limit for re-processed water in Santa Fe is below Santa Fe's normal background level.

Los Alamos locals for the most part regard the group as a sad joke.

Easier still

[Solandri]

Just draw up some calibration specs and pass a law requiring that any geiger counters sold in NY have to meet those specs. No need to ban the things.

brave new world

[shadowofwind]

As an example of where this sort of thing leads....A few months ago the fire alarm system malfunctioned at 2am in a 2-story Philadelphia hotel I was staying in. The fire marshall, backed up by numerous police, believed it was unsafe for people to enter a building which lacked a working alarm system. So the patrons, many half-dressed, remained locked out for the remainder of the night. Eventually, at dawn, people were allowed to retrieve their belongings, with individual escort. This wasn't due to a concern about looting - the keycard system was still working. And there was no danger that anyone would stay in the 'unsafe' building for more than a few minutes, due to the ear-splitting alarm that was still blaring. Now, of course alarm systems are a good idea. But I think this degree of public passivity and dependency is very dangerous. And it won't protect us from 9/11 type disasters - if anything it will make them more likely.

Re:Accept he logic of the State Triumphant.. or no

[shawngarringer]

You do realize that correlation does not mean causation, right? Or is that too big of words for you?

By your logic, Japan has less guns per person than Iraq, and less deaths per person than Iraq, therefore less guns in an entire country means less deaths. Obviously, thats not the only factor at play here. Care you look into the other factors in DC that helped raise the crime rate? Like, you know, the fact that they kicked lots of people off welfare right before the crime rate went up?

Re:Thank you for making my point!

[cain]

I wouldn't live in a place like NYC unless I could keep the damned thing loaded and under my pillow or srapped to my ass when I was walking the crime ridden streets of our major cities...

Holy crap! I'm certainly glad you don't live here!

...Quivering masses of welfare clients on the other hand...

Ah, I see. You're one of those types of people. Please just stay out of our awesome city. We don't need people like you messing it up. If you want to come visit and leave a few tourist dollars, then yeah, but don't stay long and keep to the tourist spots. Thanks.

Re:Accept he logic of the State Triumphant.. or no

[rossz]

You've been watching too many movies. Back in "wild west" days, Civilized Boston had a higher violent crime rate than the wild west. Gun fight at the OK corral was an anomaly. Most towns in the wild west were peaceful as they were populated by farmers and ranchers who wanted a safe environment to raise their families.

The right to own a firearm defines if you are a citizen or a subject. What do you want to be?

Re:Thank you for making my point!

[turgid]

You might be shocked to learn that the 2nd Amendment has exactly zero to do with hunting. The primary purpose was the belief that armed men are Citizens while unarmed ones were only Subjects. That the carrying of arms was itself a virtue, helping to keep a Free People in the right frame of mind to be worthy of receiving the Blessings of Liberty.

So why are your rights being continually eroded by those in power, and why is G W Bush still in office? What about the voting "anomalies?" What about the power of corporations over your rights and freedoms? How has your gun helped you there, citizen?

/me ducks.

Re:RTFA

[MikeBabcock]

In other news, some people don't use their signal lights properly when changing lanes.

Misuse of a meter may cause personal panic. Misuse of a car frequently causes death.

Why do we care about all the wrong things?

Re:Accept he logic of the State Triumphant.. or no

[Alpha830RulZ]

See Point Blank, by John Lott. He did a fairly extensive analysis of the impact of various levels of firearms regulation in the US, and found that "shall issue" permitting jurisdictions enjoyed lower crime rates, and that crime rates fell when these laws were enacted. "shall issue" refers to a legal requirement for issues concealed carry permits in the absence of any reason to deny the permit. In "shall issue" states, such as Washington, you can get a permit to carry a gun by walking into your police station and asking for one. They fingerprint you, and in two or three weeks, after they do a background check on you, you get the right to carry a handgun just about anywhere. Not surprisingly, holdup rates in these areas are lower than in districts such as NYC and Washington DC, which prohibit law abiding cictizens from owning or carrying a sidearm.

And yes, I have one, and yes, I sometimes carry a gun. Why? Because it makes me feel more manly. :-)

Geiger Counters

[msheekhah]

There was a story on www.whatreallyhappended.com a while back on NYC doing a map of radiological levels to create a base map from which to compare in a catastrophy. Oddly, there were high levels coming from the Israeli Embassy. WRH has often accused Israel, Mossad, and MI6 as being involved in false flag operations. I don't know if its true or not, but this development sure gives them a lot to talk about, doesn't it.

Re:RTFA

[Anonymous Coward]

Well the solution is to have a DESIGN STANDARD

Assuming that were the real problem. I wonder why NY would want to ban geiger counters for air monitoring devices? Could it be because "the energy content of nuclear fuel released in coal combustion is more than that of the coal consumed"? [ornl.gov] Didn't Mirant New York [wikipedia.org] have to shut down a couple of coal fired plants recently because of their failure to meet emission standards? Hmmm..... seems someone doesn't like nosy people with geiger counters running around.