Best Motherboards With Large RAM Capacity?

cortex writes "I routinely need to analyze large datasets (principally using Matlab). I recently 'upgraded' to 64-bit Vista so that I can access larger amounts of RAM. I know that various Linux distros have had 64-bit support for years. I also typically use Intel motherboards for their reliability, but currently Intel's desktop motherboards only support 8GB of RAM and their server motherboards are too expensive. Can anyone relate their experiences with working with Vista or Linux machines running with large RAM (>8GB)? What is the best motherboard (Intel or AMD) and OS combination for workstation applications in terms of cost and reliability?"

I doubt the need for that much ram.

[djcapelis]

Is your working set honestly over 8GB? Your dataset might be extremely large... but I would think that for the most part you'd get along just fine with swapping out to a decently fast device and your working set would be considerably below 8GB.

Consider swapping to and from a flash device or a series of flash devices. That will get you better latency over a spindle. If you want bandwidth though, you'll need to go with a hard drive. I find it very unlikely even with matlab (bloated as it is) that you honestly will improve performance considerably with >8GB of physical memory... Then again, I have no idea how good Vista is at swapping these days. But they talked about ReadyBoost and all that, so I assume it doesn't suck at it completely. :)

If you really are worried about I/O performance, you should consider getting multiple chips (and cores, but mostly multiple chips) so you have more L1/L2 cache available to access. Though this assumes your applications are somewhat parallelizable...

Generally this question is a lot more complex than simply assuming throwing more ram in the box is going to be the best use of your money.

Best motherboards for 64-bit and large memory

[redstar427]

Standard motherboards are typically limited to 8 GB of ram, since they are designed for home users and gamers.
Server/workstation motherboards are the best solution at this time to go beyond this. Most people are only running 32-bit software, with 1-3 GB of ram, so it's not a problem for them.

Currently at work, I use a Tyan Tempest i5000XT (S2696) motherboard, with dual quad-core Intel Xeon cpu's, and 8 GB of ram. I will expand to 16 GB in 2008. This board can upgrade to 32 GB of ram, with 4 GB Dimms, which should be available sometime in the future.

I dual boot with 64-bit Fedora 8 Linux, and 64-bit Windows Vista Ultimate. I run Fedora 8 for all my productive work, and use VMWare with different versions of Linux and Windows, for testing and standard Windows work. I dual boot into 64-bit Vista Ultimate when I need Windows with direct hardware support for some multimedia apps and gaming. 64-bit Vista Ultimate seems a lot more compatible with current apps than 64-bit Windows XP Pro.

For my next home computer, I will choose a similar, but different Tyan Server/workstation motherboard.
The Tyan Tempest i5400PW (S5397) is also a dual socketed motherboard for dual quad-core Xeon cpus.
It has 16 memory sockets and can be expanded up to 128 GB of ram, with future dimms of 8 GB each.
I believe this is the best long-term solution for those that really need a lot of ram, at a reasonable price.
Even with just reasonable priced 2 GB dimms, it can hold 32 GB ram, which is a lot, even for large 64-bit apps.

While $450 for these motherboards is fairly expensive, they provide a lot of value, and good quality desktop motherboards cost $150-400, so it's not really that much more.

Re:Tyan

[cowbutt]

A few years later I went to turn on my computer as usual and it wouldn't turn on. A bit of troubleshooting later and I realized that the PSU connector had burned itself into the motherboard power socket because something on the motherboard had randomly decided to short itself. Four of the pins had fried (in a distinctive pattern, see here and here)

What make/model of PSU were you using? Looks to me that the PSU's power connector couldn't cope with the current the board was pulling. Of course, that may or may not be down to a fault on the board, but seeing as you haven't told us anything about the PSU, I'm betting you were using a cheapo one that came with the case you were using.

Re:Tyan

[phantomlord]

S2460?

I just went through the same thing in late October.I built the system in June, 2002. Had a problem with the initial power supply (Antec 430W) that came in my case not being big enough and I was getting random lockups. Switched to another power supply and everything was fine for years. I went away for a weekend and sshed in to read my email. On my way home, a friend called me and noticed that I wasn't logged onto AIM. Hmm, ssh was still up. I must have gotten disconnected and it didn't full reconnect right (gaim likes to do that from time to time).

So I get home and notice that my computer had rebooted rather than having a simple AIM disconnect. Odd, but whatever. A week goes by and no problems. I attribute it to a freak power problem since I notice my UPS battery isn't holding a charge. Suddenly, my computer reboots in the middle of playing nethack. Ok, that was weird. Power failure is set to turn the computer off, not reboot. Computer hangs before LILO runs. I reset it and it hangs at LILO again. Odd. So I take the side of the case off to make sure the CPU/GPU fans are spinning. No problems. I let it sit for a few minutes. Turn it on and everything is fine again.

I grumble about losing my nethack game and start anew. I get about 5 minutes in and my computer reboots again. This time, LILO starts loading Linux and the computer reboots before the image is uncompressed. It does the same thing again. I start smelling that aroma of burning electric and plastic. Ok, it's too late to deal with this. I power off for the night and decide to come back in the morning.

Same problem in the morning, as soon as the computer gets warm, it starts rebooting. Electrical smell is getting heavier. I start taking PCI cards and drives out to make sure they aren't causing a problem. I swap in a known working video card and that's the only thing connected to the motherboard. Same problem. Ok, maybe the power supply is flaking out. I go to disconnect it from the motherboard and it was stuck pretty good. Bad enough that I had to get out some pliers and really start yanking.

Exact same pattern as you, all the red (5V) connectors are burned out. Fearing the worst, I ordered parts for a new computer. Later that night, I decided to see how bad the problem really was. I took a scalpel and small finger drill and cleaned all the melted plastic out of the motherboard connector until I could plug my backup power supply in. Some quick testing showed everything worked, so I reassembled it and used it for a week until my new parts got here.

I think what happened, in my case, is that the UPS batteries went bad (I've since replaced them) and the minor power fluctuations caused something to burn out in the power supply, which in turn, affected the current it was providing. It's worth noting the rating on my power supply says it provides 42A across the 5V wires, so we're talking some significant juice to start with.

That said, it is interesting that we've all had the same failure result.

Re:Tyan

[kjs3]

And you'd be wrong, since he specifically said 64-bit versions.

Re:Tyan

[everphilski]

Yup, I was using 2 Intel 366 MHz Celeron processors (overclocked to 550MHz) back in high school, using an Abit BP6 motherboard. At $30 apiece for the processors and picking up the motherboard for $70 at a trade show, it wasn't a bad deal at the time for a gigahertz when most people were running less than half of that.

Apple Mac Pro or XServe?

[foniksonik]

The latest Mac Pro supports 16 GB of RAM and the latest XServe (a better option IMHO) supports 32GB of RAM.

Mac Pro Specs [apple.com]

XServe Specs [apple.com]

XServe is a quad-core XEON 64bit at 3GHz as is the Mac Pro

They will both run Matlab w/ stunning execution.

Here's a nice case study for the XServe w/ Matlab: Induquímica Laboratorios [apple.com]

Re:I doubt the need for that much ram.

[TheSkyIsPurple]

Maybe he figured that most everyone else would answer his direct question, but he thought might have deeper insight into the problem?

I don't know how many times I've been focused on a problem for a long time, ventured down a solution path, and ended up asking for help for something complicated; only to have that guy ask me what I was thinking. When I explained the problem, it turns out I had missed something that drastically reduced it.

Sort of like the ol' America space pen vs. Russian Pencil story.

In other words, he was getting at the underlying concern, not the question asked. (think "Do I look fat?"... that's really not what they're asking)

Re:Tyan?

[krilli]

Are EATX boards really that big?

I got an Athlon MP board a while ago. As far as I can remember, it was EATX and fit into a regular old case. There wasn't a lot of space left, but it did fit. If I'm not mixing things up, EATX have the same mounting holes, and the extra board area just flows into normally unused areas of the case.

The listed size is deceiving - I am prepared to be wrong, but I urge you to check again.

Re:Tyan?

[jedidiah]

If enterprise database vendors can manage to support Linux, then some desktop application vendor shouldn't have any problem.

Things get deprecated in all manner of environments that coders have to deal with. Linux may be more annoying in this regard but it's hardly unique.

Nothing really forces you to alter a Linux installation once it's been deployed. Running a 5 or 8 year old copy of Linux doesn't quite have the same problems as doing the same for Windows. You can do the same with MacOS or Solaris too (safely run a 5 year old copy of the OS).