File Sharing — Harmful to Children and a Threat to National Security

jkrobin writes to mention that a recent report from the US Patent office calls peer-to-peer file sharing harmful to children and a threat to national security. "Interestingly, the report makes numerous references to RIAA and MPAA legal actions against file actions, as well as cites a 2005 Department of Homeland Security report that government workers had installed file-sharing programs that accessed classified information without their knowledge."

Whereas:

[Anonymous Coward]

Software patents are harmful to the US economy and the whole of humanity.

<sarcasm>You go USPTO!!!</sarcasm>

Stop the INSANITY!

[Anonymous Coward]

Stop the INSANITY!

This is getting just stupid.

We live in a MEDIA driven State of Fear.

Hmm

[TheMeuge]

It's good to know that RIAA and MPAA are willing to expend so much energy and money to educate our public officials. After all, we wouldn't want any extra freedoms to slip under the door.

Pencils -- Harmful to Children etc.

[Wilson_6500]

The ordinary pencil is, in our modern America, a flagrant excess that cannot be tolerated. Pencils can be used to copy national secrets from one piece of paper to another, and leave no identifying marks of any kind on the documents that have been copied. Their sharp ends can be used to gouge; children can inflict grevious rubber burns upon one another using the rubber end. Perhaps most shocking of all, the pencil graphite is conductive and could be used in any number of explosive devices where conductive elements are required.

The Pencil manufacturing concerns of America, however, are resolved to work with the U.S. government to mitigate this crisis. Henceforth, all pencil purchases are tracked with a unique REAL ID-coordinated identifier. Authorized use of pencils will require a tiny microchip implanted under the skin of the right hand. A left-handed version of the chip is expected to be available before 2020--until then, pencil-using left-handed Americans will have to make the sacrifice of writing less legibly until the chip is available.

Wow, I'm really bored today.

Security of what?

[LoudMusic]

File Sharing -- Harmful to Children and a Threat to National Security

[snip] ... Homeland Security report that government workers had installed file-sharing programs that accessed classified information without their knowledge.

File sharing? Sounds like ignorance about security is the real threat. And they're in charge of security? We are so fucked.

Wait-- children AND terr'ists?

[markbt73]

It's two-- two-- two scare tactics in one!

Not the real issue....

[cyberbob2351]

file-sharing software could be to blame for government workers who expose sensitive data and jeopardize national security after downloading free music on the job

It sounds like the network administrators in said "governmental offices" should take the precautions neccessary to police the bandwidth. Furthermore, any environment in which said p2p applications are capable of leaking any private information need to be under closer scrutiny.

Don't blame the p2p networks for the actions and negligence of those in control of their own computer infrastructure.

A decade ago, the idea that copyright infringement could become a threat to national security would have seemed implausible. Now, it is a sad reality.

Since when is copyright infringement, and not massively-propagating worms and keyloggers, the problem for national security. The latter causes FAR more breeches of personal identity information and credentials.

Classified info

[Original Replica]

The threat to national security is not the file sharing software it's the asshats who have access to classifed documents,who are installing Kazaa on their government owned work computers. You could just as likely leave a few thumbdrives with trojans sitting around where these guys have lunch.

Class

[Anonymous Coward]

> Wow, I'm really bored today.

If you produce that level of satire as a result, please be bored more often ;-)

Re:children

[Duhavid]

We are.

Next up,

Websites, email, and ftp are also bad for children, and a threat to national security.

Re:Security of what?

[synjck]

it's analogous to say "guns are a threat to national security" or "airplanes are a threat to national security."

as always, personal responsibility is brushed aside in the name of hype.

Harmful to children

[phorm]

Which is to say that, of course, music and movies depicting or narrating gangbangers pimping hoes, killing rivals/cops/etc, and committing various other crimes are not harmful to children.

Hmmm... well at least their glass houses get a lot of light.

Re:Pencils -- Harmful to Children etc.

[fair_n_hite_451]

What bothers me about this report ... and everything like it which has been trotted out over the last few years ... is that people are expected to be stupid enough to believe it.

I mean, how dumb do you have to be to believe that because children could be manipulated into violating the law by some evil website designer, this has ANYTHING to do with national security?

Unless they think that when we fence off England and turn it into a giant prison island (I mean, they're already halfway there on the surveilance front) there won't be any young males left to fight our wars if we've put them all in jail for stealing copyrighted (copywrit?) items.

These MAFIAA people don't think like I do, and that scares me because they obviously don't have the same moral (in terms of what's right and what's wrong, not anything religious) standards that I do ... and they seem determined to turn me into a criminal for some reason.

Re:Classified info

[drinkypoo]

So.... DRM?

This is precisely what "trusted computing" is actually useful for.

There ARE times in which your computer should not trust you! These are times in which it's not really your computer - which is to say, when it belongs to your employer. And double-extra-when your employer is the government and you have access to classified information.

Re:children

[Aphex Junkie]

We are. Next up, Websites, email, and ftp are also bad for children, and a threat to national security.

Just as I thought: gopher and USENET are safe for children and American as apple pie!

Re:Classified info

[sconeu]

The other question questions are "Why are machines with classified data able to access the internet? And why did users have permissions to install said software?"

NISPOM chapter 8 specifies the requirements for a classified machine.

Whenever I set up a classified net, one of the last things I do before I get certified is to yank the internet connection. All classified nets should be physically isolated.

Also, all software changes to a classified computer must be logged. Ordinary users should not have permissions to install such items, and any attempt to do so should be logged as a potential security risk. I would think that the network/sysadmins of these systems are NOT doing their job properly.

Re:Classified info

[Rycross]

Just making sure that we're on the same page. I actually agree :) Although its kind of frustrating that a potentially useful technology is being used in a futile effort to make sure that we don't copy the latest new pop song. Its kinda like pandora's box: yeah, theres some good stuff in there at the bottom, but you have to let all the crap out as well.

Re:Pencils -- Harmful to Children etc.

[Rycross]

Well enough people seem to think that video games can influence children to break the law... I don't see why you think its such a huge logical leap to think the same for web sites. Its the same thing with people thinking Harry Potter or Dungeons and Dragons will encourage kids into witchcraft. Its sad, but people are stupid enough to believe it.

Re:Whereas:

[Anonymous Coward]

> Software merely takes a generalized machine and turns it
> into a specialized machine. Clearly a unique specialized
> machine should be patentable.

No the general purpose machine is the patentable invention. Specific information (ie: software) should be protected by copyright. Pure software is not patentable and all software is pure software.

Re:Stop the INSANITY!

[Anonymous Coward]

This is the smartest thing anyone has said about this so far!

Americans are so easily manipulated. They have been so conditioned by advertising it's not even funny.

Re:Stop the INSANITY!

[eonlabs]

MPAA and RIAA with flagrant and excessive lawsuits directed at random are potentially harmful to children?

Senators who don't keep file sharing software away from classified files (or don't actively restrict the software from sharing those files) are a security threat?

hmmm...

Wording could be important on this issue too.
Maybe what we want is for people to RTFM on some of the software they install on their machines. Senators are being paid enough to have a work machine that does not have crap on it. This is a modern world, and if people being elected into office can't keep up with it, they shouldn't be elected. Once they are there, it's there responsibility not to screw up on something stupid like that.

Someone else figure out the RIAA MPAA problem. They're beyond me.

Re:Pencils -- Harmful to Children etc.

[paeanblack]

Its the same thing with people thinking Harry Potter or Dungeons and Dragons will encourage kids into witchcraft.

Or MTV or Elvis or the Beatles or JRR Tolkien or William Powell or Jazz or Margaret Sanger or DH Lawrence or Mark Twain or Henry David Thoreau or Nathaniel Hawthorne, etc, etc, etc.

Your children really will grow up in the same world you did, populated with the same idiots. So will your grandkids.

Re:Stop the INSANITY!

[pilgrim23]

ever note that when asked; the creators of the 47 forms, worksheets and the like needed to fill out your taxes will tell you that incomprehensible pile of pencil pusher purgatory was "designed with you the citizen in mind" Opression is always labeled as good for you.

just like rock'n roll in the 50s..

[plasmacutter]

This is reminding me of what they were saying about rock'n roll and comic books in the 50's.. they had huge hearings on it, it was the bane of culture, it promoted sexual deviance, it threatened the foundations of society itself!!!!!11one!1

first, they ignore you

then, they laugh at you

then they fight you

then you win.

Re:Stop the INSANITY!

[Anonymous Coward]

..and Germans are perverts, Poles are stupid, Japanese know karate, Africans eat fried chicken and watermelon, Russians are drunk, Mexicans are lazy, French are rude, British are arrogant, Arabs are terrorists, Jews are thieves.

Re:Whereas:

[HermMunster]

The Patent Office is either way off its rocker and/or it is not a far stretch to understand that a company that controls your computer, the content, the OS and that of 90% of the rest of the world, would make it also a threat to National Security and the security of every other nation on the planet. Microsoft with Vista can turn off your ability to use the computer. Through tools like WGA and WGN it can monitor your computer and your use. Since there is no competition out there to give consumers and government a choice then we are all bound to something that is unprecedented in the history of the world. The OS. No other time in the history of the world has one company held such influence on the lives of virtually everyone in the world in the same way.

To say that file sharing allows for children to have access to this or that harmful content, and be subject to other bad things, and to say that files can be put at risk and therefore risk the national security, it would not be a far stretch to understand that to allow one company to essentially enter every computer (as the computer is an extension of your home/business) as they are able to enter your home and business to search, inventory, and accuse (and ultimately with Vista shut down your home/business) then that company and it's product could be considered a threat to national security. P2P is not used solely by children and since it can be useful in business and government it is a lesser threat than that posed by one company having control of the computers of the world. You have unprecedented control and access which creates a major possibility of security threats, if not primarily by Microsoft then by some enterprising vicious terrorist hoping to exploit Microsoft's buggy OSes and buggy spy tools.

You can't go from P2P and the concept of access without going to Windows and WGA/WGN. Whatever applies to the concept of access over the Internet via P2P also extends to any product that could be used to yield the same type of invasive behavior that leads to stealing trade/national secrets be it by a controlling monopoly previously convicted in numerous nations of the world or by someone attempting to exploit the fact that exploits to tools like WGA/WGN could present unprecedented access to terrorists and the governments of other rogue nations.

Re:But seriously, folks

[hobbit]

What I think -- I think Americans should, for patriotic reasons (having nothing to do with children's morality), strongly support copyright and IP.

What about starting resource wars for patriotic reasons?

And let the market work out as it may.

You have to choose between supporting IP and letting the market work it out. At the risk of nearly saying "information wants to be free": value is related to scarcity.

Re:Stop the INSANITY!

[pak9rabid]

Ok...2 things:

"that peer-to-peer networks could manipulate sites so children violate copyright laws more frequently than adults, exposing those children to copyright lawsuits and, in turn, make those who protect their copyrighted material appear antagonistic"

So the risk is being blamed on the P2P networks, when it's in fact the RIAA/MPAA that are the cause of these frivilous lawsuits.

"file-sharing software could be to blame for government workers who expose sensitive data and jeopardize national security after downloading free music on the job"

It seems to me that it's not file-sharing software to blame, but the shitty sys/net admins that the government employs to "secure" the computers that contain this sensitive data. Call me crazy, but I'd think that with the use of Active Directory, even a dimwitted NT admin could setup a computer that wouldn't allow people to install software like this in the first place.

Just my $0.02

Re:Pencils -- Harmful to Children etc.

[kennykb]

"there won't be any young males left to fight our wars if we've put them all in jail for stealing copyrighted (copywrit?) items."

"Sentence suspended if you join the army."

Re:Stop the INSANITY!

[Atlantis-Rising]

..no, it shouldn't. The government should take some basic computer-security measures. If the government's IT people aren't competent enough to stop file sharing, how the fuck do you think they're competent enough to run a completely custom built system?

Now, some departments do- the NSA, for example, has their own chip-fab, and probably runs homebuilt systems for certain top-secret applications. But the NSA also did SE-Linux, so they've shown (at least to me, and who the hell am I to decide) that they can actually handle it.

Re:Stop the INSANITY!

[Anonymous Coward]

The paper is total BS. I don't know about DHS but DoD is locked down pretty tight. There isn't any way to download free music via p2p on the classified net since it has no connection to the internet. The RIAA/MPAA have done more damage to the children with the crap they produce than any p2p software.

The Horror

[PingXao]

Just think about how ballistic some politicians would go if a simple demonstration were shown to them about the sites you can find with Google by searching for the words "tits" or "wide snatch". They'd be pushing for the internet to be closed down immediately if not sooner. I predict just such a demonstration will be forthcoming in the very near future. Just as soon as there's some new US scandal they want to divert attention away from. It will be the mother of all diversions and has the potential to really crimp the usefulness of the internet in the US.

Re:Stop the INSANITY!

[je ne sais quoi]

Hell yeah! Just look at the other wars the proud sons and daughters of the U.S. have won:

War on Drugs: Nobody uses those any more right? We're all clean and sober now, nevermind those pesky Californians and their "medicinal" marijuana. They're just tree-hugging hippies with glaucoma and don't count.

War on Poverty: We cured that long ago, the incredible wages we pay our hard-working CEOs have been trickling down into the economy for some time and no one is poor any more and we all have health care and social security.

War on Christmas: Won! Wal-Mart now uses the wholesome Merry Christmas instead of the godless heathen phrase "Happy Holidays". Santa Claus is no longer banned from spreading the gospel to children by teaching them the joys of rampant consumerism and owning a tickle-me-elmo.

War on Terror: We invaded Iraq, so no more terrorists, right? A reliable source told me that the insurgency there is in the last throes. However, this is only if the democrats don't ruin it by not supporting our troops by refusing to allow any more to die in the middle of the non-civil war.

Translation

[billcopc]

Okay okay if I'm reading this correctly, file sharing is a threat to national security because it's getting installed on government computers that hold sensitive information ? Does that mean that photocopiers, faxes, mailing envelopes and even cameras are all threats to national security because they have the potential to be misused by dumb government employees ?

#1 - File sharing is only as dangerous as the person running the software. If the user's a twit, don't blame the software, just replace them with a better user.

#2 - File sharing's risk can be controlled at the firewall, either keep an eye on it or shut it out completely. We're talking about offices here, places that have no legitimate reason to be using Limewire et al. in the first place.

#3 - Gov't employees have always had ways to leak information. Sometimes they toss stuff in the garbage without properly shredding confidential documents. Sometimes they get their notebook stolen. Sometimes they leave their passwords written on post-it notes stuck to their monitor. And sometimes they're just would-be spies taking bribes.

#4 - The more stuff gets legislated "out of existence", the more ways people will find to get around the law. They shut down Napster, so people started using decentralized networks. They could try to shut down P2P, we'll find a sneakier way to do it (already happening with encrypted VPN tunnels). How's the saying go ? If [thing] is outlawed, only outlaws will do [thing].

#5 - This is our goddamned government. This ain't a dictatorship or monarchy, it's a democracy. If these officials aren't acting in accordance with the people's needs, we need to fire the bastards!

Re:Stop the INSANITY!

[Master of Transhuman]

I don't think anybody has claimed potatoes yet, have they?

Drop the drunk image and take up potato chips instead.

Since my favorite band is the Corrs, you could also just start claiming that Ireland has the world's most beautiful women AND best bands (since you can claim U2 as well.)

Ireland has the world's best potatos, the most beautiful women, and the best rock bands!

Doesn't that sound better than "Ireland has the most drunks"?

(Even if Andrea has been caught on camera having to be helped out of a pub by her friends on occasion...compared to Tara Reid, that's nothing.)

This just in...

[mommywheresdaddy]

The spread of information by means of communication is a threat to national security.

Re:Stop the INSANITY!

[LifesABeach]

"...US Patent office calls peer-to-peer file sharing harmful to children and a threat to national security..." The irony of this statement is that it comes from the same people that said, "Ya, this One-Click internet thing looks unique; So we will give you a patent."

"You're My Engineer" - The Last Mimsy

Re:Stop the INSANITY!

[Anonymous Coward]

MPAA and RIAA with flagrant and excessive lawsuits directed at random are potentially harmful to children?

Yes, which is why they claim file sharing is harmful to children since they will be sued and therefore harmed. Similar legislation exists for marijuana. Most of the problems associated with marijuana are caused by the fact that it is illegal (gangs, prison, drug dealers, etc.). Make file sharing (or marijuana) legal and you eliminate the harm caused by both. Unfortunately the RIAA would not profit from this so it becomes a tough decision for them. They can profit and harm children, or not profit and not harm children. Hell, they may as well cut the middle man and just sell kiddie porn.

Re:Security of what?

[evought]

Technically, the offense was moving data between the networks *at all* without authorization. Someone has to sanitize data which is transferred. For binary formats, that means going through it with a hex editor. There were very good reasons to stick to text formats. The people who wrote the rule new about the possible problems with binary data; the person who broke it did not know enough to understand the consequences--- and therefore should not have done it.

We had a blast when we declassified the source code to the system we were working on. The program handled highly classified data, but there was no reason the algorithms themselves had to be controlled. The Air Force stood to save money by maintaining the code off-site in a non-classified facility. But every line of every file had to be gone through by an authorized person before it could be cleared and it was a large system.

We handled WINTEL data, which meant that it could be used to identify people in the field, people who could die (or worse) if their identities were compromised. Stupid mistakes like moving data without authorization undo all of the precautions we went to to protect that data and the people who collected it. I took my job very seriously and so did many of the people there.

And yes, when people brazenly break protocol when handling sensitive data, I think they should go to jail, the exception being protection for whistle-blowers.

Contrast that with the casual treatment of Valerie Plame.

Re:Stop the INSANITY!

[stewbacca]

The people in government who work with classified information use computer systems that aren't capable of hooking up to the World Wide Web. Instead, classified systems work on their own, closed mini-WWW. Entering a computer that handles classified information into an unclassified network (such as the WWW, where file sharing resides) is a major security violation. Unless government employees are bringing music into work on their iPods and uploading tunes to their secure terminals (another major security violation), there is no music to be shared on secret and above level computers.

The sad part is the people who came up with this junk study already know this, so they truly are just caving to the RIAA/MPAA with their pathetic fear mongering.

Re:bogus and reality check

[drDugan]

Information drives actions, and information drives what resources we need; thus, information is quite useful when you have no resources: it helps you get them. Mostly the idea of "no resources" is artificial, because it comes from a model of scarcity. In all places where humans live there are resources, by definition. Without food and water, all the people die or leave in about 2 weeks. Read up on Maslow.
As for wars, information is a critical part of what people fight over. Ever hear of all the "intelligence" failures that lead to Iraq? The whole case for war and all the reasons the US attacked were based within information.

I agree, tyranny and ignorance exist along a continuum. There is a huge middle ground that we can rest in where people will be happy. There is no need to chose one to avoid the other. Copyright, in principle is sound as an idea, the way it was initially framed. But in practice today, (c) is completely out of control. To lose access to information for a time period of (life of the author + 70 or 95 years), given a median human lifespan of about 70 years... this is effectively information tyranny. The information is never available for use in your lifespan. Your assertions that statements I write are "rhetoric" seem childish and transparent - they do not help your case.

I never asserted that all information is equal. It is clearly not. You put relative value of information in one class that you defined as lower than other categories. There is not one axis of value, but even if there were, each person would get to assign value to information, as they want. Who defined what information is in what category? You? RIAA? ISP filtering software? I don't accept your categorization of "entertainment" and you shouldn't accept my categories or values. As such, I reject your relative value scheme. Each individual has their own values.

Most movies are both art and business: very big $ business, and a remarkable art form. I don't judge what information private individuals want to exchange with each other. Who said anything about any of this being noble?

Users

[kingturkey]

File sharing isn't a threat to national security, stupid government employees that install file sharing programs on work computers and then make the shared folder one that contains important documents are a threat to national security.

Odd...

[hallux-s]

Sharing is harmful to children, and dangerous to national security. Admittedly, I don't have time to read the propoganda... er... article, but... what's that you say? FILE SHARING? Oh, sorry, is that materially different from any other kind of sharing?

Should we just go ahead and abolish the free interchange of ideas while we're at it, so we can stop the sharing of such harmful ideas as "I think we should go home and beat our children" or "I think we should get together and resist our Tyrannical Opressors (TM)" and then just silently curse this minority that 'ruined free speech' for the rest of us?

Or should we recognize that govenment regulation of the exchange of information or ideas which, (although not being a lawyer) I could have SWORN was for forbidden by the first amendment, is the action of the corrupting influence of large amounts of what was originally, (ironically) OUR money which we gave to the RIAA/MPAA etc., when we purchased music and movies "legitimately" in the first place?

RIAA and MPAA are like DRUG ADDICTS, we gave them the drug, cash, we want to stop supplying them, but they are strung out and need more of the drug. Always they need more, and I think, if they could, they would be willing to kill (you or me) to get it. However, killing is generally still illegal, so they can't.

Seeing them pull the strings of our lawmakers telling us ultimately, that it is illegal for us to talk to one another is disenhartening to say the least.

~Hal

Re:Stop the INSANITY!

[rtb61]

Well there is one thing you can say about the current US administration, they certainly seem to be winning the 'War on Freedom and Democracy', neither one have been in as bad a state in the US for centuries, quite an achievement, you virtually have to go back to before the Declaration of Independence and the Madness of King George the third (must be something in the name) to find both Freedom and Democracy so threatened in the United States.