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Looking Beyond Vista To Fiji and Vienna 600

Posted by CowboyNeal
from the better-and-better dept.
Vinit wrote in with an article that describes Microsoft's strategy for future versions of Windows. It begins: "As we all know that Microsoft Vista was originally scheduled to be released in 2003, after two years of Windows XP, but it got delayed by over five years due to various reasons. Definitely, Vista is very very improved OS over the previous versions, but the delayed in the launch has cost Microsoft, billions of dollars. Now the question at the moment is, what exactly after Vista? Microsoft can't afford to wait another five years for an operating system. People are becoming more aware of the choices they have, and Linux is no longer a hobbyist OS, and that day isn't far away when it becomes simple enough to be a viable alternative to Windows. The competition is fierce. That is why, to stay at the top, Microsoft has planned a 'Vista R2', codenamed 'Fiji' which will be released some time in 2008. And after Fiji, there will be Windows 'Vienna'. Windows Fiji, will not be a totally different OS from Vista; but it will be an add-on. Whereas Vienna will be totally different from Vista."
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Looking Beyond Vista To Fiji and Vienna

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  • Fiji (Score:3, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 30, 2006 @01:22PM (#17409756)
    'Vista R2', codenamed 'Fiji' which will be released some time in 2008

    Why not in Fiji?
  • Fiji is where Bill plans to take his money and retire. Nothing to do with an OS.
  • ...by the time Fiji is available, our bones will have long turned to dust...
  • by gilesjuk (604902) <[giles.jones] [at] [zen.co.uk]> on Saturday December 30, 2006 @01:26PM (#17409802)
    Apple are progressively upgrading the OS having smaller releases. This is closer to the Linux way of working.

    Once you get your basic design right you can gradually improve and alter things. This is where Microsoft failed, their security model was flawed, so with Vista they've fixed it (or so they say).
    • by WrongSizeGlass (838941) on Saturday December 30, 2006 @01:43PM (#17409988)

      Once you get your basic design right ...
      Please let us know when Microsoft accomplishes this part.
    • by kfg (145172) on Saturday December 30, 2006 @01:52PM (#17410070)
      This is where Microsoft failed, their security model was flawed, so with Vista they've fixed it (or so they say).

      Yeah, you used to be allowed full access to your own files and do with them as you please.

      We'll have no more of that nonsense.

      KFG
    • by wrook (134116) on Saturday December 30, 2006 @02:43PM (#17410536) Homepage
      I've been thinking about this for a while and I don't think you're right.

      The delay in Vista seems to have been caused by the desire to release (even internally) a single "OS product". But the fact of the matter is that an OS is composed of hundreds (thousands even) of small parts. MS is trying to release "the latest and greatest" of each part simultaneously. The inevitable ping-pong between departments trying to get it all to work with one another causes massive delays.

      FLOSS usually avoids this problem because each project is developed completely independently. Most projects do not use the bleeding edge GTK library for instance. They use the latest "released" and "stable" library. Even though GTK development continues, projects usually don't care. They tie themselves to a stable rather than moving target.

      It is generally the job of the distro to make it all work together. But again, they are working against stable targets for the most part. Nobody says, "Hey it's a week before release and the GTK guys released a new version of the library. Let's delay and make everything use it." (Generally speaking that is -- I'm sure there have been exceptions).

      Of course there are some problems. Sometimes you just *have* to release 2 versions of GTK in the distro. But who cares (Yay for ld.so! Why the Windows people can't see the benefit of dealing with shared libraries like this in completely beyond me...) Of course worse is moving between versions of something like perl.

      It's strange... I've tried to convince several of the companies I've worked for to operate in this manner, but I can't get anyone to try it. Have 2 different groups: Development - that works on a backlog of tasks and incrementally improves various pieces of the product; and Release - that takes versions of the development pieces, matches them with marketing requirements, makes a cohesive product and releases when the marketing requirements are met.

      I keep trying to tell people that there is no need to freeze development just because you are doing a release. In some shops I've worked in I've literally sat on my ass for months waiting for the release to go out (while some other poor schmuck is camping in his cubicle trying to finish some last minute requirements).
      • by troll -1 (956834) on Saturday December 30, 2006 @04:01PM (#17411150)
        FLOSS usually avoids this problem because each project is developed completely independently. Most projects do not use the bleeding edge GTK library for instance.

        Having the source code is a great advantage. A ./configure script can generate a Makefile that knows what kernel version you're running and which libraries you're using, etc.. It's a simple yet ingenious idea. You never really have to do a complete OS reinstall. I'm using a pretty old version of slackware but I have the latest kernel and latest versions of all my favorite software. In theory I never have to 'upgrade' to slackware-11 because I can just install the pieces on an as-need basis. This system can't work for Microsoft because distributing the source code is not an option.
      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        In some shops I've worked in I've literally sat on my ass for months
        I've find sitting on my ass to be the most comfortable position for hacking out code. But I could be in the minority...
  • Five years? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by eck011219 (851729) on Saturday December 30, 2006 @01:27PM (#17409820)
    How do they figure five years? 2003 to 2007, that's four years at best, not "over five years." If you include all of 2003 AND 2007, that gets you right up to five years (but that's not how it worked anyway).
    • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

      by kfg (145172)
      How do they figure five years? 2003 to 2007, that's four years at best. . .

      The author obviously lacks opposable thumbs:

      "One, Two, Three, Four, more than Five"

      KFG
  • by nbannerman (974715) on Saturday December 30, 2006 @01:28PM (#17409828)
    Ok, so from TFA: "One thing is for certain, Vienna won't be just an operating system, but a new generation in computing."

    How, we all ask, will it achieve such wonders?

    The answer: "Windows Fiji will feature a more powerful sidebar, Monaco, a music authoring tool similar to Apple's Garageband, default playback of HD-DVD, more advanced Speech Recognition, and new themes, icons, wallpapers, games, and minor tweaks to almost everything."

    Mmmhmm. I can't be the only one sitting here thinking 'what a load of bull'. I mean, really, if I wanted to get this apparently 'new generation' of computing, I'd go out and buy a .Mac. Or, come to think of it, do what I've already done; use LiteStep and mod my current XP install.
    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by nbannerman (974715)
      Oh, classic, I've got the new versions confused. My apologies... *facedesk*.

      Windows Vienna will change the OS by not having a start bar or explorer interace, just the Sidebar.

      Hang on a minute, I can do that now using Litestep. Oh, so they are the same then! ;)
    • One of the things I remember Gates talking about excitedly for the past 10 years is his R&D in Speach Recognition. He's been dreaming about the seamless and natural interaction of computers and humans for a long time. I wouldn't be surpised if Vienna really happened because it's the one thing Bill has poured his life and energy into for over a decade. Anybody who follows Gates knows that he has been serious about speach recognition for a long time.
      • by Erris (531066) on Saturday December 30, 2006 @02:10PM (#17410232) Homepage Journal

        Anybody who follows Gates knows that he has been serious about speach (sic) recognition for a long time.

        It's hard for anyone who does not "follow" the cult of Gates to take anything he says seriously. He's been promising the moon and stars for decades but has yet to deliver anything but mild UI modifications. Generally, his company writes down a wish list of competitor's features and promises to deliver them bigger and better in his "next" release. As the years roll by he drops all of the features until he's left with something like Vista, which offerst the user little beyond DRM madness and a UI upgrade, which he then invariably promotes as "revolutionary".

        Despite all of that, I thought he liked to talk about handwriting recognition. You know, the tablet PC, that' he's promissed the world since the Apple Newton. Palm, OpenZarus and Xstroke all beat him to the punch and his tablet PC has yet to catch on.

        He might as well claim his next OS will have AI and do "seemless" speech recognition. He won't loose much credibility that way. At this point, he's got so little to use, I'd sooner believe penis pill spam.

      • by nine-times (778537) <nine.times@gmail.com> on Saturday December 30, 2006 @02:15PM (#17410292) Homepage

        Yes, he's been crazy about speech recognition, and it makes a certain sort of sense. However, the idea that speech recognition alone will replace the keyboard interface shows a lack of imagination. Part of the reason we've stuck with keyboards for as long as we have is they're efficient. They're cheap, can operate easily in noisy areas, and allow for purposeful manipulation of text. If you're a good typist, keyboards can be faster and easier, too. And can you imagine trying to play Half-Life with a speech interface? Keyboards aren't going anywhere.

        So what does that leave for speech? Maybe you can say, "launch microsoft word" and then, once it's launched, you start typing. Or you could say, "next song" and iTunes would switch to the next song instead of having to click on a button. Wowwie! And what happens when you're sitting at your computer, and you say something to your friend about "the next song in my playlist..." How does it know you don't want to go to the next song?

        The problem is that having computers respond naturally to speech requires an awful lot of AI that we won't have anytime soon. Even if we do have that amount of AI in a PC someday, it's still not clear that a keyboard won't be preferable for many interactions. Of course, maybe once we have that level of AI, we won't be trying to type anything up anymore anyway. I'll say, "Computer, please write a letter to my mom." and the computer will just do it. "Computer, write me a slashdot post on this topic."

        There are only two groups of people I'm aware of who think that it's a good idea speech recognition for the purpose of doing away with keyboards, and have really good text-to-speech to you so you won't have to read. Those two groups are "children" and "Bill Gates". The best major applications for these technologies are accessibility for the disabled and portable devices. That's pretty much it for the foreseeable future.

        • As you said (Score:5, Interesting)

          by goldcd (587052) on Saturday December 30, 2006 @03:50PM (#17411068) Homepage
          Speech recognition is 'nice' - but that's it. I cannot imagine an office full of people all gabbling at their PCs without going nuts.
          Few things I'd like to see are:
          1) Tight integration to client devices. I stuck MCE onto my PC and it really was a pleasure to see my TV stuff picked up by their lovely BDA drivers and all that Tivo stuff appear. Whilst that was nice, it was nowhere near the f'in quantum leap when I pointed my 360 at my big PC over the wifi and got all those features suddenly appearing on my 40" screen.
          Wifi implementation is very cheap and MS are normally good at allowing 3rd parties to access their tech (unlike Apple), yet have not quite managed to sell it very well. I'd like a clock radio that played my podcasts etc - I think I just like the idea of having a big central PC that can do all the heavy lifting and a number of thin clients that can all access it (and not all have to have their own bespoke software running on the back end).
          2) Haptic stuff. Look at the Wii. Could be basic stuff like a laptop just turning off the screen if there's nobody sitting infront of it or mouse gestures like strokeit integrated into the GUI.
          3) Telephony. I've no idea why I have an IP deskphone and laptop sitting on my desk. They have messenger which provides perfectly good person to person calls, they have outlook that provides a centralized mail and calendar resource - can't they just bolt on telephony? Point my deskphone number to my laptop wherever it is, divert to mobile if my PC is off, hold calls if I'm in a meeting etc?
          4) Have some balls when it comes to hardware manufacturers. Apple is able to say 'right, we're using the new bios thingie' and make the hardware. MS tentatively seems to make steps towards it, but continuously supports old stuff. Now I know they have to support the old stuff and I know many people appreciate it - but they need to clearly define what hardware they want people to use to optimize 'the experience' and tell Dell. They have started to do this with the Vista certification - I've no idea why people bitch abotu this, but if you want flashy graphics, you need a decent PC and you need people to be able to buy that decent PC with confidence. The quasi-flash drives supported under Vista are a good thing - but I WANT MORE.
          5) Better implementation of Bluetooth (and whatever comes along next). I'd love to be able to have my PC boot up (maybe into hibernation) when my phone walks in through the door. Popup on my phone screen with a summary (at least) when I get an email.

          Just reading through my points, it seems I want integration. I may be in a minority as most people here seem to get their knickers in a twist when MS bundle a browser with XP - but I want all my stuff to just work together nicely and out of the box. I can't expect MS to support every device, but maybe if they just published some open standards (or formally adopted the perfectly good open ones we already have) hardware manufacturers WOULD comply (as I would buy).
        • by fermion (181285) on Saturday December 30, 2006 @04:16PM (#17411248) Homepage Journal
          Speech recognition is on of those anachronistic things from the days of the early and mid 20th century. At this time it was believed that the mundane tasks like cooking and cleaning and other menial takss would be handled by machines, and the complex tasks, like plotting courses for spaceships and other highly intelligent computations, would always be handled by men. To be sure, some cleaning tasks are no handled by machines, but almost all the computational work is handled by machines, which tends to indicate which requires a human level of creativity.

          So, at this time, one job was the person who listened to a recording and transcribed the recording into written text, oftimes reformatting it in a prescribed fashion. Though the shuttle is piloted largely by three redundant computers, we still have people transcribing letters. To be sure, some of this has to do with the amount that is costs for a human to do each of these tasks, and the accuracy, but a lot has to do with the difficulty of automating creative tasks like cooking and cleaning and transcribing. Add to this that in many cases people wish these tasks to be done how they like at the moment, and not in an absolute prescribed form and the result is a huge engineering problem.

          So, if we begin to live in the 21st century, and leave the bigoted preconceptions behind, then we see that speech recognition is a specific solution that efficiently utilizes a specific resource, the human brain. And, if like in flight, we do not try to emulate the flapping of the wings but the result of the flapping of the wings, then we might see that the keyboard based solution is in fact an efficient solution that utilizes the strengths of the current resource, the electronic computer.

          This does not mean that speech recognition does not have its place. Apple uses it to allow the launching of applications and the like, which is useful for certain people. More advanced speech recognition is available for those who want it. However, spending time on this instead of say, a pseudo self organizing file system, seems quite pointless.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 30, 2006 @01:28PM (#17409838)
    A illiterate intro based on a brief article from a random blog that doesn't quote any sources. That's what I call credibility.
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Matchstick (94940)

      A illiterate intro based on a brief article from a random blog that doesn't quote any sources. That's what I call credibility.
      I will use my karma bonus and bump your post. It is really quite sad that it took so long for someone to point out these obvious facts.
  • Summary: (Score:3, Funny)

    by techmuse (160085) on Saturday December 30, 2006 @01:33PM (#17409880)
    Fiji: Microsoft gets an extension from the teacher to turn in its Vista homework late.

    Vienna: Microsoft takes a philosophy class. Wonders why it did everything a certain way for the past 15 years. Gets high. Oooo...look at all the pretty colors and new interface paradigms.
  • Actual article (Score:4, Informative)

    by VAXGeek (3443) on Saturday December 30, 2006 @01:33PM (#17409882) Homepage
    REAL article with actual meat: http://jameskyton.wordpress.com/2006/12/29/beyond- windows-vista-fiji-and-vienna/ [wordpress.com]

    Don't you hate reading the whole thing and getting to the end and seeing SOURCE? I wish I could digg this article DOWN!
    • Re:Actual article (Score:4, Insightful)

      by earnest murderer (888716) on Saturday December 30, 2006 @03:00PM (#17410676)
      Which is, funny enough another blog. Not just any blog, but a blog with a single post by one "James Kyton" who doesn't appear to have any profile on the internet (pseudonym).

      While I have no other reason to question the integrity of the blogger, or the uhm... other blogger. My bullshit detector is hovering at about '9'. I am a cynical man, and this new business of establishing credibility through a network of blogs ("gross" syndication might be too generous) instead of a genuine original credible content rubs me the wrong way. There are a lot (most?) of blogs out there with no other purpose than to serve as an adsense speed bump between you and what you actually want to read. A great many of which don't even lead you there, but to a labyrinth of plagiarism and advertisements that if you are diligent enough to follow the long trail, end at a wholly non-credible source (if they source at all).

      Yes, it is the second [slashdot.org] time I posted this, but since that thread was off topic and you are addressing the issue directly... forgive me.
  • So after basically admitting that windows had jumped the shark [slashdot.org], they're still going to release "Fiji", ie a glorified service pack that you have to pay for. *sigh* maybe they'll be adding some of the features they scrapped in Vista, like WinFS.

    On the plus side, at least Vista did ship with "improved shortcut support" [slashdot.org]. Gotta give Microsoft that.
  • by FreonTrip (694097) <freontripNO@SPAMgmail.com> on Saturday December 30, 2006 @01:35PM (#17409902)
    Witness the release of Vista, and then witness a re-release a couple of years later with bug fixes, feature improvements, security improvement rollups, and a few new (probably non-exclusive) applications rolled in to make the pill go down more sweetly. Everything old is made new again. Move along.
  • They can bury new versions of the OS in bells an whistles, but some of us will still be happily running Windows freakin 95 because it does what we need. I think there really isn't much more they can add to Windows that people actually need. Of course they currently have the advertising dollars and power to convince people otherwise.
  • And I hear it's a good, operating system, but it has, some stunning, similarities to OS X. Also, the, author of the snippet, uses a few too, many, commas, and comes up, with wonderfully original, sentence, structures.
  • > Microsoft can't afford to wait another five years for an operating system.

    Why not?

    > The competition is fierce.

    What competition?

  • by glwtta (532858) on Saturday December 30, 2006 @01:41PM (#17409970) Homepage
    Definitely, Vista is very very improved OS over the previous versions, but the delayed in the launch has cost Microsoft, billions of dollars.

    I'm not looking for Shakespeare here, but the submitter is what, eight?
    • Re:Who wrote this? (Score:5, Interesting)

      by earnest murderer (888716) on Saturday December 30, 2006 @02:24PM (#17410360)
      Moreover, it's blog spam, and not just some excited reader. The author submitted it (which I don't have a problem with necessarily) but the article in question is more of a speed bump to the real content [wordpress.com]. Which is, funny enough another blog. Not just any blog, but a blog with a single post by one "James Kyton" who doesn't appear to have any profile on the internet (pseudonym).

      While I have no reason to doubt either the blogger, or the uhm... other blogger. My bullshit detector is hovering at about '9'. It wouldn't be the first time someone sourced themselves in the pursuit of adsense dollars. Or just to lend themselves some credibility for that matter.
  • I don't want yet another goddamn "new generation of UI". I want someone to just make their goddamn UI consistent and bug free.

    One of the most important facets of usability is consistency. If you don't want confused users, DON'T CHANGE EVERYTHING WITH EACH RELEASE.

  • Place your bets! (Score:2, Insightful)

    by BadEvilYoda (935532)
    Will it be Fiji or Vienna that come bundled with Duke Nukem 3D?
  • From TFA (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Rodness (168429) on Saturday December 30, 2006 @01:50PM (#17410054)
    Windows Fiji will feature a more powerful sidebar, Monaco, a music authoring tool similar to Apple's Garageband, default playback of HD-DVD, more advanced Speech Recognition, and new themes, icons, wallpapers, games, and minor tweaks to almost everything.
    While in Windows Vienna the current interface will be completely stripped, no more explorer shells, and taskbars. No start menu. Probably no toolbars, or menus and Speech Recognition will become a major input device. One thing is for certain, Vienna won't be just an operating system, but a new generation in computing.


    So Fiji is going to rip off all the cool features of Leopard and incorporate into Vista while Vienna aims to be the next generation of computing. Why does this sound so familiar... oh wait.... :)

    And didn't we just recently have an article on stupid movie uses of computers that blasted the "talking computer" from Star Trek as being a completely useless interface? So why is this a good thing?

    But it's also Microsoft. "2003" was codespeak for 2007, so "2008" means 2015 or something... and all the cool new features will be dropped for reasons of infeasibility anyway.
  • by rubycodez (864176) on Saturday December 30, 2006 @01:51PM (#17410066)
    Exactly what is the basis for spouting this load of crap? How about this list of why Vista is inferior to previous versions of windows:


    No Support for IPX, Appletalk, WebDav, or NetDDE
    Even less capable backup built in than XP, which itself had inferior backup to previous versions
    High cost
    Bloat #1 - takes over 10GB of hard disk
    Bloat #2 - 2GB of RAM needed
    Crippled wordpad can't read .doc
    Obtuse menuing requiring going in half a dozen or more levels in for basic controls
    Stupid ReadyBoost trying to do what would be better done by simple swap/page to usb device, except RB is MUCH slower
    Hardware vendors not in hurry to support Vista


    in short, you'll gain nothing and lose functionality by going to Vista. save your money, just say NO.
    • by mr_death (106532) on Saturday December 30, 2006 @02:22PM (#17410348)
      Take the points in the parent posting, and add:

      50+ millions lines of code bloat

      lots of stupid, unnecessary eye candy

      alleged security features, some that have already been broken ("most secure o/s ever", my ass)

      a virgin ip stack

      DRM silliness

      kernel restrictions that keep third party security systems out -- said systems having done a much better job than Microsquish at keeping the bad guys out. You can, of course, pay extra for windows "defender" -- somewhat like buying an antidote from the people that poisoned you in the first place

      As Ren and Stimpy might say to Ballmer, "you eeeediot!"
    • by EXMSFT (935404) on Saturday December 30, 2006 @02:31PM (#17410424)
      IPX and AppleTalk are dead. Vint said it best... IP Everywhere.
      • by Pecisk (688001) on Saturday December 30, 2006 @04:51PM (#17411438)
        Seems like best argument for every feature Microsoft axes - "it isn't used anywhere!". But ohh boy, it IS used. Just ask any larger than medium business sysadmin or even more - some small business who have colosal mix of everything. Just don't tell them that because of new new shiny laptop they have to choose either to pirate Windows XP or just switch everything to IP?

        Question is - why Linux, FreeBSD, Solaris, even AIX can provide support for IPX and AppleTalk, and Microsoft new, ohh so super new OS can't?
    • by Tony Hoyle (11698) <tmh@nodomain.org> on Saturday December 30, 2006 @02:36PM (#17410478) Homepage
      Crippled wordpad can't read .doc

      Wow.. didn't realize that. WTF were they thinking?

      I'm currently on a 2gb vista test machine and it's going into swap all the time. 2gb is really not enough... it's dog slow due to the swapping.

      Add to that:

      Broken program files menu that doesn't cascade (so you have to know where what you're looking for is before you look for it).
      Font bugs that regularly turn the fonts to unreadable crap requiring a reboot.
      Claims to have NFS client but this does not actually function.
      Running about 50% of available software switches aeroglass off. Sometimes it doesn't come back on without a reboot.
      S...L...O...W... I mean this is a dual processor 64bit machine and it's slower than the celeron running XP next to it.
      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        by ebatsky (582457)
        im running vista ultimate from msdn...

        i have 2gb ram, currently it is using 880mb. when i first boot up without running any extra things its uses up about 600mb

        as for the rest:

        Broken program files menu that doesn't cascade (so you have to know where what you're looking for is before you look for it).

        thats not true. it does cascade on the left where it says 'folders' (this is hidable so if you dont see it you need to click "folders" button thing on the bottom left. i mightve changed something in the options
  • Has it really? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Orange Crush (934731) on Saturday December 30, 2006 @01:54PM (#17410088)
    but the delayed in the launch has cost Microsoft, billions of dollars.

    Until the day Vista ships, MS is getting huge amounts of cash from Windows XP licenses on almost every new PC sold. Most people don't run out and buy a new OS for existing PCs, they usually stick with whatever came with it. How exactly will Vista increase MS's revenue to the tune of billions? Had they released something sooner, what new cash flow would that have provided and would it have justified the expense for development?

    I'm sortof dancing around my real point here: I think the *real* reason so much time has gone buy since XP is that Microsoft really hasn't had much incentive to release a new OS.

  • by xigxag (167441) on Saturday December 30, 2006 @01:54PM (#17410090)
    ...why should we believe anything that Microsoft says about the feature set of a distant-future operating system? Furthermore, the days of geek dominance of the computer world are long over -- average people simply don't care what bells and whistles an OS has. They want to send email, play games, browse the web, play movies, organize their music, and write a few reports. Without having to worry about their computer being infected. All of those things are properly OS-agnostic: Firefox with Gmail and Flash, VLC and OpenGL work much the same on any modern OS. The only reasons for MS's continuing OS dominance are inertia, the forced tie-in with its flagship business apps, and DRM.
  • Bad Omen (Score:5, Funny)

    by Target Drone (546651) on Saturday December 30, 2006 @01:59PM (#17410132)
    Aren't windows code names traditionally cities? The fact that they are using a contry name for an upgraded version of Vista that experienced a military coup d'état [wikipedia.org] a year ago (while vista development was in full swing) makes me wonder if this is a bad omen.
  • WinFS? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by IvyKing (732111) on Saturday December 30, 2006 @02:07PM (#17410208)
    Wasn't that originally promised in Cairo? Come on, this is getting to be even worse than Duke Nukem Forever. What's even worse is the "abscence of drive letters has been a feature of Unix since the early 1970's.


    As for "file locations" being managed by applications - mmm, no thanks, I rather group files by projects which can involve many applications. What I'd really love is a return to the functionality present in Word for DOS, where the application would look in the current working directory for project specific configuration files.

  • by Tony (765) * on Saturday December 30, 2006 @02:14PM (#17410286) Journal
    "There are lies, damned lies, and Microsoft promises."

    We've heard it all before. Seriously. And it happens just like that: "Yeah, we know XP isn't that much of an upgrade to MS-Windows 2k, but you should see Longhorn! Oh, it's gonna be great! It'll milk your cows, skim the cream, and make fresh ice cream! It'll put your kids through college! Oh, and it'll, uh, make your complexion clear up, and get rid of your herpes!"

    Every time Microsoft releases a less-than-stellar product (which is invariably), they start bragging about how great things will be in the *next* release, on which they haven't even started working. That's the Microsoft modus operandi: promise more than the competition currently has, and deliver less. Wash, rinse, repeat.
  • by rucs_hack (784150) on Saturday December 30, 2006 @02:24PM (#17410358)
    So by the time large companies have started to deploy Vista, there will be a new version of windows out that they'll be plugging to mr and mrs Corporate world, pointing out, in the process, all the things that were wrong with Vista or needed changing, in order to get purchase orders in for the new stuff.

    Somehow I don't see this as a viable plan.

    Incremental service pack based improvements to Vista? Yes indeedy, but a completely new OS? What a stupid idea. They do, after all, sell to the Corporate world, and that does not like complete change in IT infrastructure every two years
  • by erroneus (253617) on Saturday December 30, 2006 @02:29PM (#17410400) Homepage
    Since Win2000, I have been disappointed with Microsoft's continual failure to depart from their OS kernel model that makes them persistently vulnerable and unstable. I recall attending some Microsoft presentation discussing the upcoming release of Windows 2000. I raised my hand to ask a simple question:

    "Will Windows 2000 have the drivers running at ring-0?"

    The answer was initially "what does that mean?" and eventually, "yes it will."

    This isn't Win32's only source of vulnerability and instability, but it's certainly among them. And the obvious solution was virtualization. Back before Win2000's release (and each release thereafter) I had hoped to see something along the lines of WINE or some sort of virtualization mode for compatibility and a "native mode" for all modern releases of applications.

    And when MacOSX came out and did precisely what I had hoped Windows would do, not only was I pleased to discover that my idea wasn't unique but that it was workable and functionable. (Well, sort of... I have been supporting a production environment that involves MacOS in Classic mode and while it basically works, it's not quite stable... no more stable than Windows is in its present form anyway.) But it also served as proof that Microsoft COULD have done this and probably SHOULD have done this.

    Perhaps they WILL do this eventually, but will it be soon enough?

    I love to hate Microsoft, honestly, but for the good of the IT world at large, I'd just rather see Microsoft fix their crap and let's just get on with things. If Linux continues to grow and improve as it has been, I'd rather see further adoption based on its present and future merits rather than because of the faults in Microsoft products.
  • by jonadab (583620) on Saturday December 30, 2006 @02:50PM (#17410596) Homepage Journal
    And here's the timeline for 'Vienna':
    2007 Q1 Vista released; work on Vienna begins.
    2007 Q4 Microsoft announces Vienna will contain innovative new filesystem
    2008 Q2 Microsoft projects release date for 'Vienna' as late 2010 or early 2011
    2008 Q3 Microsoft announces Vienna will revolutionize the internet desktop
    2009 Q2 Microsoft announces Vienna's filesystem will make search irrelevant
    2009 Q4 Microsoft projects release date for Vienna as second half of 2011
    2010 Q1 Microsoft announces Vienna will be inherently more secure than Vista
    2010 Q2 Microsoft announces Vienna's new API will make developers' jobs easy
    2010 Q4 Microsoft announces Vienna will have built-in internet telephony (VOIP)
    2011 Q2 Microsoft projects release date for Vienna in early 2012
    2011 Q3 Microsoft announces Vienna will work with next-generation security hardware
    2012 Q1 Microsoft announces partnership with wireless internet provider to enhance Vienna's
          internet telephony, allowing users to go "unplugged"
    2012 Q2 Microsoft projects Vienna release date pushed back to 2013
    2012 Q3 Microsoft announces Vienna's wireless internet telephony will make cellphones obsolete
    2013 Q1 Microsoft announces Vienna's wireless internet telephony will be more secure than cellphones
    2013 Q3 Microsoft announces Vienna kernel will be most secure OS kernel ever
    2013 Q4 Microsoft projects Vienna release date in early 2014
    2014 Q1 Microsoft announces the new filesystem may not be ready for RTM but will ship
          just after Vienna in a service pack
    2014 Q2 Microsoft announces Vienna public beta will be forthcoming later in the year
    2014 Q3 Microsoft announces the new developer API will be spun off as a separate project from Vienna
    2014 Q4 Microsoft promises Vienna release no later than 2015 Q2
    2015 Q1 Deal with wireless internet company falls through
    2015 Q2 Microsoft announces innovative filesystem will be in release after Vienna
    2015 Q2 Microsoft announces Vienna will still feature "unplugged" internet telephony,
          but user will have choice of third-party wireless providers
    2015 Q3 Microsoft releases limited beta of Vienna to select individuals and companies
    2015 Q3 Reviews of Vienna start coming out; reviewers note internet telephony not present
    2015 Q4 Microsoft announces final product name for Vienna will be Windows Fiesta
    2015 Q4 Microsoft confirms internet telephony will not be ready to ship with first release
    2016 Q1 Microsoft releases public beta of Fiesta to a wider audience
    2016 Q2 Microsoft announces final release date for Fiesta in November; nobody believes it
    2016 October Microsoft announces Windows Fiesta will be available to select customers in
          November, retail version will ship in January
    2016 November Microsoft announces Fiesta now available to select customers
    2017 January Microsoft actually releases Windows Fiesta
  • Oh, Vienna! (Score:5, Funny)

    by hachete (473378) on Saturday December 30, 2006 @02:59PM (#17410666) Homepage Journal
    MS don't know what will be in Vienna, because Apple haven't invented it yet. This means nothing to me.
  • by SuperDuperMan (257229) on Saturday December 30, 2006 @03:15PM (#17410774)
    I have no use for Vista or any of it's follow ups.

    I have no interest in an operating system designed to protect content owners, protect microsoft with horrible activation functionality and little to no benefit to myself.

    If I didn't require Windows for work I'd have nothing to do with it. I've been a long time Windows user since Windows 3.1 and each release seemed to be such a major improvement over the previous. Until Vista. Vista is not a users operating system. It's more of a prison.

  • by NorbrookC (674063) on Saturday December 30, 2006 @03:57PM (#17411126) Journal

    This sounds more like Service Pack 1 of Vista. Of course, calling it that would be admitting that maybe they didn't get everything right the first time. I'm sure the very idea that Microsoft wouldn't get something right the first time comes as a major shock to Slashdot readers. :-p

    Seriously, though, announcing a new "updated" version and your next-generation OS strikes me as a really good way to tank initial sales, particularly in the business arena. A good many CIO's have finally gotten it that it's usually a good idea to wait for SP-1 of any MS OS before rolling out, and "leaking" that an SP1 (by whatever name) is being released in two years pretty much seals it for them. Not that there was tremendous enthusiasm for migration in the first place. This is actually a good time for Linux to start trying to push itself onto the business desktop. You have MS not releasing an OS on time, let alone reliable hardware requirements until the last minute, there's no compelling application which can't be run on XP, and they're hinting at a new release in two years. All of which is not calculated to be endearing to someone who's in charge of a major rollout.

    The "next generation OS" sounds like a bunch of wishful thinking, more than any actual code.

  • Wait. What? (Score:4, Funny)

    by The MAZZTer (911996) <megazzt@gm[ ].com ['ail' in gap]> on Saturday December 30, 2006 @06:28PM (#17411974) Homepage
    Whereas Vienna will be totally different from Vista."

    Wait... are they already admitting Vista was a bad move? ;)

  • by ChaoticLimbs (597275) on Saturday December 30, 2006 @06:37PM (#17412026) Journal
    Or just sentence fragments. Sometimes it can be so difficult. To tell if the author is simply illiterate. That he can't tell where commas go. Or sometimes just spaces. That makes it confusing. As well as looking dumb.
  • by gringer (252588) on Saturday December 30, 2006 @08:07PM (#17412528)
    Sure, I'm grasping at straws here, but...

    Vienna, in the local language, is spelt 'Wein'. If you pronounce that as an English speaker, you might say it in the same way you say 'Wine'. Wine [winehq.org], as a few people know, is an Open Source implementation of the Windows API on top of X and Unix. Perhaps Microsoft don't like the idea of such software, and want to produce a product that confuses users of Wine. Or maybe they'll do away with their development line completely, and Wine will become the next version of Windows.

    Then Microsoft will be able to expand out the acronym to something like:

    "Windows Emulator, it's not!" or "Windows Is Not an Emulator"!
  • Accurate info? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Columcille (88542) * on Saturday December 30, 2006 @09:14PM (#17412936) Homepage
    As we all know that Microsoft Vista was originally scheduled to be released in 2003, after two years of Windows XP, but it got delayed by over five years...

    Call my math fuzzy (it's happened before) but if it was originally scheduled to be released in 2003, and it's being released in 2007, then the delay was less than five years...

    ...but the delayed in the launch has cost Microsoft, billions of dollars.

    I've heard similar figures thrown out before, but where do these figures come from? How has the delay cost them? One could argue it has resulted in lost revenue, but XP was still selling well during that time and Vista will be making its sales now. Delayed revenue perhaps, but lost? Are they talking perhaps money spent on developers and such? That might be a point, but billions? What would be the reference for that?

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