Are Skimpy Raises the New Normal? 736
Lam1969 writes "Computerworld just released their latest salary survey, and it finds that IT worker bees have once again only received small raises. The article notes, "IT raises still lagged slightly behind the average of about 3.2% for all U.S. workers as reported by the Bureau of Labor Statistics. While the majority of respondents (69%) said their 2004 base salary increased from one year ago, 31% experienced either no change in salary or had their pay cut." It goes on to quote LAN specialist Stephen Noisseau as saying, "I guess that's the way the cookie crumbles ... I'll take 4% over nothing. We're getting basically cost-of-living raises.""
What is this "raise" you speak of? (Score:4, Interesting)
The only way I can see increasing my pay is to leave this job for another. And this is NOT a good market now to do that.
Would LOVE a 2% or 3% raise once a year or so...
Geographical breakdown?? (Score:3, Interesting)
But I guess 10% increase in those countries would still be a steal for the labour they are receiving in return.
Bonus / profit sharing and base salary. (Score:3, Interesting)
Go for higher pay when you first negotiate (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Welcome to reality.... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:3-4% really is the norm (Score:3, Interesting)
Jeez... W raised over _100_ million dollars in the last campaign if memory serves right. Mayor Bloomberg is a _billionaire_. The _last_ people these politicians listen to are the working class. Sad as it may be.
Disorganized Labor (Score:5, Interesting)
I'll say once again:
Blue Collar = Organized Labor
White Collar = Disorganized Labor
Democracy is about working together to be treated fairly. Why should corporate profits leap by huge percentages while employee salaries do not?
Be glad you are working (Score:3, Interesting)
Be glad you get a paycheck. After having to live thru 2 bankrupt companies, I am..
Reality vs. perception (Score:5, Interesting)
I remember hearing over and over that raises where only 2% for the last couple years. In fact, due to cost cutting they stopped collecting the trash cans on a daily basis. Now, instead of individual trash cans in our cubes, we have communal trash cans in the hallways, which are emptied once a week. BTW, we keep having record quarters.
So, when my boss's boss threatened to give me a bad review and no raise, I shrugged my shoulders and informed him that "My annual 2% raise is close enough to 0% that it didn't matter." I then proceeded to tell him that he had a structural problem. The lack of raises provided him with no "stick" and the lack of advancement opportunities provided him with no "carrot."
I have already decided to leave as soon as the first of the year comes around (and I quality for the End-of-Year bonus).
The funny thing. I honestly believe I got a 2% raise last year. That is what everyone says the raises were. I was doing some record keeping this weekend and noticed that I actually got a 8.25% raise last year.
Sometimes perception and reality don't match.
I am still leaving though.
Re:What is this "raise" you speak of? (Score:3, Interesting)
I think that not giving employees a raise better than inflation's rate, is essentially a pay cut. Presumably the service or good is making more money or is at least as valuable, so why isn't the employee's time?
And in other news.. (Score:5, Interesting)
As a small mobile software developer in India currently looking for fresh business and perhaps adding employees other than myself to the business, this news makes me have second thoughts!
Re:3-4% really is the norm (Score:5, Interesting)
Of course they can all also vote themselves the same outrageous pay raises..
A salary increase cap I doubt you could push through - you'd have to rule out the fringe cases where a guy DID earn $4m bonus a year (for instance, turning a company around from bankruptcy - I imagine a couple of airline bosses are hoping they can swing this)
What I suppose could happen is that salary raises and bonuses are capped based on percentages of profit margins and difference between previous years (if it's profits up, add a percent or two, if profits are down, reduce a percent or two), and written into company charters.
How much could Bill Gates grant himself per year if he had a 3% pay raise and a further 2% bonus on a good year? How about Steve Jobs?
It's probably no better than the current "corruption"
Re:Welcome to reality.... (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:3-4% really is the norm (Score:5, Interesting)
If I am not mistaken, Steve Jobs has an annual salary of $1.00. Considering how much stock he owns and how much money he made in the past I don't think he thinks very much about how much he is getting paid. I think the CEO of Cisco has the same deal.
Z.
I saw this oon the news this morning. (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Disorganized Labor (Score:5, Interesting)
However, I don't want to be treated *fairly*. I want to be treated *well*. Maybe its the ./ Conceit, but I think I'm better/more employable than the guy in the next cubicle (figuratively speaking, considering the next cubicle is a printer) and don't want to have my ability to bargain *for me* compromised just so he gains immunity to firing. I also don't want to get X% of my pay jacked in an additional tax to support a bunch of layabout "leaders" who will spend the majority of their time spending my union dues on lavish offices and political causes which I don't support anyway.
Most of us? Maybe some.... (Score:4, Interesting)
Best job I could find after that was a couple years of working in a guy's unheated garage scrapping together used computers for resale cheap to daycare centers and preschools - for less than half of my former, below-average salary. I'm *still* trying to find something that might at least pay close to what I made in '99-2000!
I agree that smart businesses are clued in more to things like "people skills" and "work ethics" nowdays, but from what I've been running into around here - the single most impotant thing you can have is an inside connection. Almost everyone I know in this market who has a good-paying job in I.T. got there because they had a friend in management. They need a decent resume too - but you're just another piece of paper in H.R.'s resume pile unless you have connections who get someone to "pull your resume" and seriously consider it....
Re:Hard Times (Score:5, Interesting)
On another front, a friend of mine was also working at the university. After three or four years of never getting a pay raise he decided to find out what was going on. In his case, he wanted to look at the accounting books. It turned out that the accounting books were on the top floor of the library accesible only by stairs and no photography equipment was allowed on the top floor. Also, no pens, no paper, no pencils, nothing - except yourself. (Althought you could ask for a pencil and paper as you will see here in a sec.) It took several hours (and several days) of making requests for various accounting books, being told they were not available, being denied access to records, and the like to finally get hold of the books he wanted to look at. Turns out they were all done in pencil and several of them had areas that had been erased. Lucky for him, the sections he was looking for were still in good condition. After looking at the pages he asked for some paper and a pencil. The person would only give him one sheet of paper, one pencil, and stood over him while he copied the information from the book to ensure he didn't modify the books. Only one sheet of paper was allowed per person per visit. So it took him a while to get all of the facts. It turned out one person who had hired on with the department had funneled almost all of the funds to themselves. Something like a 30% pay increase each year for the past few years thereby doubling their salary in a very short amount of time. Since the "librarian" had stood over him and watched him copy everything he had the foresight to get the person's name as a witness to what he'd done so there could be no mistake about what he'd found out. He threatened to expose the whole affair if the offending person wasn't fired. They were and the money got distributed like it was supposed to be distributed to everyone. No charges were ever filed against the other person.
This is why I hate the "let's hide what everyone makes" mentality of most companies. As the saying goes "Evil can not stand the light of day but loves the darkness of the night." Which is to say that you can not do covert things unless you hide, misdirect, or mislead others in what you are doing. So remember that the next time raises are (or are not) handed out. Those people above you didn't take a "0%" pay raise. They took their cut out first and then went "Oops! There's nothing left for the rank and file. Oh well! Maybe next year!"
One last thing: Any time your boss gives you little or nothing as a raise; just remember this one thing - Every company has to file their income tax returns and those returns are open to public scrutiny. But more importantly, there is a company that already does this for you. They are Standards and Poor. Any major library in any major city will have the S&P books on hand for each year. All you have to do is to go to the library and look up the year you are told you are not going to get a raise (or even if they cut your pay). You can look up your company's information, see what the head of your company had to say about that year's profit and loss, see what dividends were paid to the stockholders, and even see how much money the company's owner made for that year (and you can compare it to the year before's amount to see what kind of a raise they got). Go and look at it. See how much of a pay decrease they took. I think you will be very surprised to find that even in the worse years they didn't take a pay cut or no raise at all but instead usually take about a 7-10% increase every year. Not to mention bonuses they may have taken on top of their pay increases.
Something to think about.
Programmers are not well paid in the U.S vs India (Score:3, Interesting)
The International Herald Tribune says that the average wage for an experienced programmer in India is $11,423 a year. The average wage for an experienced programmer in the U.S is $83,000 a year. However the average per capita income in India is $3,100 and in the U.S it is $40,100. Per capita income is a good indicator of the relative cost level for people living in a particular country.
So the programmer vs average salary ratio in India is 3.684 while in the U.S it is 2.069. To feel as rich as an experienced Indian programmer an American Programmer would have to make $147,728.
Origional article + links to references, etc over at my blog [blogspot.com]
False Raises (Score:2, Interesting)
It is just a token to try to make people feel better. I'm sure if my base salary was high enough I'd be getting more than the increase in my benefits counters, but there are some people who do much worse than I do too. I could get a 10% raise, but if it doesn't increase my take home salary, then I don't care.
Incentive pay (Score:2, Interesting)
Cry me a river (Score:3, Interesting)
-ccm
Re:Welcome to reality.... (Score:5, Interesting)
In other words, fire the experienced employees who want a decent wage and hire unskilled workers who don't have the guts to ask for more pay and let the customers suffer with bad support while the new class learns what the hell they're doing..
At my employer (we do contracted support) The client pays for training classes for new employees (these training classes are not as long as they should be but anyway) what happens if the company can't retain the new hires? They have to hire some more and the client has to pay for their training. At some point, the client gets tired of paying for new groups to be trained, and simply don't allow new classes. The result is a hiring freeze for that department. The employees on the project get overworked, irritable, ect. trying to cover the workload of a larger group. We may have oppertunities to earn more from overtime when this happens, sometimes these "oppertunities" are not our choice. In any case, the remaining employees don't get any additional compensation per hours for the extra workload. This situation continues until the company that hired us starts to lose money from their customers leaving from bad support or the employee numbers drop to a point where it is not possible to fulfill staffing hours. The only people who really suffer in the end is the employees who don't quit and the customers (end users) who deal with poor support.
4% is more than cost of living (Score:3, Interesting)
Loyalty is Stupid (Score:5, Interesting)
The whole principle of a free-market economy is fair exchange where both parties feel that they are getting back an equal or greater amount of value than what they put in. If you're not getting that out of an exchange, you shouldn't be participating in it.
Managers can do whatever the hell they want, a company run by morons is going to go bankrupt in short order, and it's the shareholders who will pay for their stupidity. That's one of the risks of investment, and it is also why many shareholders keep a close eye on what is happening with their investment. If you feel like your boss/the leadership of a company you've invested in is making stupid decisions, for god sake get out now or they'll take you down with them.
Raises greater than inflation... (Score:2, Interesting)
Only when wages go up faster than productivity will prices have to adjust to reduce demand. Think about it: if everyone became 5% more productive, but received a wage increase of 10%, the entire country would be trying to consume more than it produced. Prices would increase until there was no longer any excess demand. That's inflation.
FWIW, productivity has risen much more rapidly than wages in recent years. This is probably a bad thing.
Re:Hard Times (Score:3, Interesting)
I used to think managers did bugger all until I became one. That was an eye opening experience. A lot of those F500 executives earn every cent in my opinion. I wouldn't have most of their jobs for double what they get paid.
Re:Welcome to reality.... (Score:3, Interesting)
If you do that, you'll not only better yourself, but the world as well.
Of course, 90%+ of people don't do that--they don't have the initiative/motivation/desire to start a company and work/risk that, so instead they get employed. And if you're an employee, you are a commodity on the free market, just like any other--so don't complain when you think you're not valued by the market as you should be. You're not living in a third world country--you're living in a country with options. Go get another job at another company, or start your own. If there are no other jobs which pay what you want at other companies--then perhaps you're not as valuable as you think you are.
I'm not implying that you're lazy or out for entitlements. I'm just stating the facts about how a free market works. You could be a very dedicated, hardworking person, and I am in no way attacking you. If you have the skills, intelligence and dedication to start a company, the world could use a few more ethical ones.
Re:Loyalty is Stupid (Score:5, Interesting)
Health insurance. It isn't the only reason, but it is decent sized. In particular pre-existing ailments. A lot of health insurance plans will not cover pre-existing conditions until you've paid 12 months worth of fees.
For anyone with a kid or spouse with a pre-existing condition, the thought of no coverage, especially if the condition could dramatically worsen, is enough to keep them from even considering switching employers.
Which, is why I believe employeer-provided health insurance is evil. I don't believe in state-provided insurance either for all the inefficiences that come with socialism. I do advocate for personal health insurance, where you are personally responsible for each dollar spent for fees and it has no ties to your employer or any other group that would use it to coerce you into acting against your own best interests.
I got 40% raise after just 6 months!! learn how... (Score:4, Interesting)
So after 6 months they wanted to keep me as I had done a good job and they valued my work, at which point I bypassed my boss all together and negotiated with the VP of IT for 2 days for a total of 5 hours, explaining why I was worth way more than what he was offering and debunking every reason he had to pay me like the other employees. And yes, I did plan a lot before that meeting - many hours! I did get the spcheal about how the company paid fairly and according to market research I was worth X amount of dollars, but I played it cool, mentioned that I had other prospects on the side (which was true) willing to offer me close to 60% more than what he offered me, I mentioned I had worked internationally and one of the jobs even offered me partial company ownership, but most importantly I said, hey, look I don't consider myself an average employee, so if you are interested in hiring average employees I understand that but if you read my resume (which I knew he didn't read it as I had been hired by another manager), you will know very well that I'm hardly an average employee and I take on work that very few people have the skills to take on.
Even though I didn't get the huge $ I was asking for (which was a 6 figure close to what he was making), I did get the highest tier of pay he was allowed to give me (he even got out all the pay charts and showed me what all the other employees made). 2 years later, I still make about 5% higher than my boss who has been working there for like 7 years!
So, hey... It was mental stress-hell for a week there getting ready to prepare to negotiate and getting through the negotiation itself, but 2 years later I could care less that I haven't been given even 1% raise as I am very happy with what I am earning and have no intentions of stressing myself over any raises for at least another 2 or 3 years.
Do your research, prepare like hell, know his negotiation abilities, strengthen yours and be VERY creative in your game. During negotiations, as he was saying no to my request, I said stuff like:
1)
well fine then how about you re-hire me as a contractor, or
2)
let me look at your Hierarchy and pay-scale to find me a job description I am capable of doing that meets my salary expectations (which he did show me),
3)
I brought into the negotiations print outs from monster.com and other places that showed that people with my job title made way more than what he was offering (what I showed, was of course the extremes),
4)
I suggested that the company was growing in a new direction and fast and that perhaps it was time to create a new job title that did not fit into the existing pay scales & descriptions,
5)
I explained that in my last job I made 50% more than what he was paying me as a contractor, and that I took the job because I liked the company and the technology was very leading edge at the time (VoIP) but that now (2003) my skills are high in demand (and he knew that),
6)
next I said, ok well what about stock options to make up the difference?
7)
Or what about training commitments worth $X per year,
8)
or forget the salary and if you are not convinced, let me work for you for free and you pay me 10% of what I save the company money on (I could have trippled my salary easily if he had said yes).
9)
I threw the question/problem back into his lap saying... Ok so listen, you know that I am not your average employee and am worth more than your regular pay scales, so how do you sugge
Re:Welcome to reality.... (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Cry me a river (Score:3, Interesting)
Oh, wait, they don't add to the bottom line at all.
See, businesses function as an entire unit, and not every component of that unit is going to directly add to the 'bottom line'. It is important to recognize that, although many departments don't directly generate revenue, they do provide required services for revenue-generating departments to do their jobs.
You think IT is useless? Let's see you get by without email, access to Google, Slashdot (oh, the irony!), databases, accounting software, or any of the myrad of services an IT department provides. More importantly, let's see how well your business does against competitors who *do* use IT.
Try doing your corporate taxes with just pencil-and-paper sometime.
Think that every IT person should be working all the time? Great. Now what do you do when an emergency hits, and all of your people are at 100% of capacity? Pray? Try and add new people in the thick of things, thus adding the additional task of having to train said new people?
I don't think so.
Fact is, being in IT is a lot like being a paramedic, only you've got to build the hospital first. Once you've done that, assuming you've done your job, you do have a lot of on-the-clock free time, and if you're smart, you'll spend a good chunk of that time looking at the various aspects of the technology for which you are responsible. When an emergency hits, you've got the time to mobilize and deal with the problem quickly and effectively, and after the problem is solved, you can take the time to make sure the same sort of thing never happens again.
Re:3-4% really is the norm (Score:3, Interesting)
But of course; Steve Jobs' stock options are now worth more than any paper salary he could ever have wished for. It's actually a way to get around tax and fiddle the SEC, IRS and stockmarket reports to show the company makes a ridiculous profit (i.e. $4bn profit instead of $4bn profit minus $800 million bonus to the boss).
I think Steve Jobs is worth it. One of the few in the limelight who can really say that he earned his deal. I can pick out a bunch of energy company bosses, airline bosses etc. that really do pick their own salaries, and really cannot be said to earn it (especially when they get fired for embezzlement or fraud or dumping toxic waste in the water table ON TOP of not being a top-notch CEO, and get multi-million dollar severance fees as part of their contracts
You're right in there are good guys, and I said somewhere in this thread that you couldn't ban or modify it in a law because it's hard to define it to include good guys and exclude bad guys.. but it's the thought that counts.
Maybe companies would pay attention if shareholders just sold out their stock when the CEO and board vote themselves outrageous salaries and bonus schemes? The stock price will go through the floor as a result, sending a message.
Re:Welcome to reality.... (Score:3, Interesting)
As for liberals wanting government programs - wrong. They want more middle class jobs. I guess that is further proof of "not wanting anyone else to get theirs". Neo cons support offshoring which takes away mostly middle class jobs and not poor low paying service sector jobs.
Liberals want to protect the middle class jobs we had. Conservatives want them to go overseas so we can have "faith based employment" - aka, we pray for a new middle class jobs-creating industry to come along and then pray some more when it doesn't.
Democrats push for middle class tax cuts while majority Republicans consistently nip it in the bud and then erroneously blame Democrats for it.
The "I've got mine, I don't wany anyone else getting theirs" is far more a Republican thing than a Democrat thing.
Re:Welcome to reality.... (Score:1, Interesting)
Re:Welcome to reality.... (Score:2, Interesting)
I left a job after only 18 months after having it out with the boss over getting another developer. He said his approach was deliberate because "people work best under pressure". Averaging 65 hours per week for 18 months with many larger peaks, the worst being 95 hours in a week, is far beyond "people work best under pressure". The icing on the cake was when they tried to give me a bad phone reference but contridicted themselves enough that the recruiter knew they were full of it. Luckily I'd worded the recruiter up that I didn't know what they'd say since they were sore I'd left and I'd been having trouble for 4 months getting a written reference out of them. Unsurprisingly, they are no longer in business.
Re:Welcome to reality.... (Score:1, Interesting)
work for the man (Score:1, Interesting)
Re:Welcome to reality.... (Score:2, Interesting)
I forgot to mention that I agreed to stay for 3 months after saying I was going to leave to train up my replacement, and then part time for 1 month after that. And after all of that they would not give me the written reference that I had to continually ask for. If it wasn't for the recruiter for my new job some months later having a long-ish conversation with my old boss they probably wouldn't have tripped up.
Cost-of-living raises at least (Score:2, Interesting)
Holy crap you babies - how about 0% 3 yrs running? (Score:4, Interesting)
And if the noises we hear about the strategizing the paradigm and upselling the modality to shape the customer solutionality are any indication our reviews for 2006 will come out the same.
And this is a MAJOR IT corporation you see commercials for, every day on television.
And this is in one of the areas commonly touted as a hot area; commercial security.
So in real terms as our compensation FALLS at least 3%/year for 3-4 years I have to say your complaints of only getting 2.8% - 4% fall on deaf ears.
Re:Welcome to reality.... (Score:3, Interesting)
1. I would never do that job, it is pure evil (Telemarketing).
2. I don't think I could handle that sort of stress (Insurance Customer Support).
3. I promised myself when I was a teenager never to work in food service. (Waiter/Waitress)
4. They would never hire me, I don't have experience. (Some Blue collar job)
5. I love my Low Paying Job #1
etc...
Most of the jobs I suggest are rather well paying jobs where you can make ends meat. But people have either so much pride in themselves that they feel like they will be stooping down to get this lower status job (with higher pay and/or benefits), they are afraid of the work involved in the job, or fear of getting rejected in the job. It is all about choice. If you can a 2 year degree you should be able to find a good paying job (30k-40k a year) if you look in the right spots and are willing to work for it.
3-4% is not cost of living raise... (Score:3, Interesting)
We see gas prices spiking periodically (200-300% increase in last 10 years..anyone remember 98 cent gas? How about 78-87 cent gas?)
Health insurance rates have been increasing for most(in US) at double digit increments....anywhere from 15-35 percent!
They only thing that has suprisingly stayed low has been food costs.
3-4% is CRAP when you have these kinds of increases. Copst of licing in my book should have given me a 10-15% raise.
Re:Welcome to reality.... (Score:5, Interesting)
Really? I'm dead broke since I'm in college, but I don't expect to be that way for the rest of my life. I consider myself to be quite liberal in the "new" sense and don't plan to change my beliefs any time soon. I believe in the idea of a welfare state, and will gladly give up a good share of my money in furtherance of that belief if I ever have the luck of being successful.
Your comment regarding immigrants is pretty spot-on. The reason this is, is because many immigrants look at a $5.15/hr job as a Godsend. They had it so bad in their previous country, anything here looks fit for a king. The chronically poor who have lived here for their entire lives don't see things that way, and subsequently believe that if they work a full time job, they deserve X and Y. Even then, many immigrants end up being just as broke as natives. Take a look at some of the working-class neighborhoods in Boston, decendants of Irish immigrants. They came, worked hard, and had nothing to show for. Its just that "broke" in the US sense is far and away better than "broke" in the foreign sense.
I may scramble from job to job to keep my income paying a mortgage and ten dozen other bills, but I'd rather be doing this for my family than letting them sit around without hope living at the mercy of others.
I applaud you for doing that.
Although there is a certain cost-benefit analysis some people use in this situation. If single-mom X can make $400/wk at work and have to pay for child care or she can live off public assistance until her child reaches school age, why should she work? She can make sure her child is getting the attention they need if she's home.
This, to me, is an inherent flaw in the system, the same way that 45,000,000 Americans don't have health insurance, but all of our prisioners do. In fact, my girlfriend is one of those $45,000,000, and I suggested to her that, in order to get some costly surgery done, the best way to go about it was to commit a crime so that she would be incarcerated. This way she would get the care she needed. I've read quite a few stories where seniors would pull a gun at a convenience store, wait for the manager to call the police, and then wait outside for the police to come. Once they were in jail, they'd get their heart medication and other health needs taken care of.
Blanket raises unacceptable (Score:2, Interesting)
They will compensate me accordingly for my service.
That's what I told myself to get me through another 6 months. Upon my return raises were coming down the pipe. As it stood I took a salary on at undermarker value for the San Diego area ($53,000) where rent is about $1200/month and every other aspect of living through the roof. I did this with the mentality that I would be rewarded based upon merit. Do a good job, expect a good raise. I was just trying to get the foot in the door in Defense Contracting.
Well, I manged to get a 3.82% raise... just like everyone else. You see, I would have been okay with that raise if I was just like everyone else. Fact of the matter is, is that I did what everyone else was unwilling to do. For the co-worker that remained behind due to my generosity, she was awarded the same as me. I felt insulted.
This having been the straw that broke the camel's back I searched elsewhere for employment. Thankfully for me, my reputation preceeded me and was sent a slew of offers as soon as I told other agencies I was looking to leave. Upon doing my exit interview with the company I had outlined several issues that lead to my decision. In the end however, as an employer don't provide blanket raises. This will only infuriate those that do the majority of the work or perform exemplary. As I told my boss's boss, this all would have been avoided if they had done raises based upon merit.
I'm surprised there has been no mention... (Score:1, Interesting)
I was laid off a couple years ago so I went back to consulting. I just took a permanent position again with a company. I took a salary cut of over 30% and I was told that raises are usually cost-of-living and that is it.
However, in return, the company covers our insurance 100%, gives us prepaid gas cards every month and pays for us to attend classes, purchase books, etc.
By the way, we are a transportation company and due to fuel costs going up we are making a return of less than 2%
Point being that if you aren't happy where you are at, there are PLENTY of companies out there that are willing to appreciate their employees but with the current economy (still improving) it can't always be in monetary terms.
My salary is more than enough for me to live off of very happily. More importantly, I have a feeling of worth at my company rather than feeling like a overpaid assembly line developer.
The satisfaction I get more than makes up for the difference in income.
Re:Short answer: YES... (Score:2, Interesting)
If you want to make anti-Bush statements, fine. That's your prerogative. But if you're not going to back up your windy rhetoric with some facts, figures, and examples, you're nothing more than a troll. It's ridiculous that you're not modded as such.
Re:Cost of living isn't the same everywhere (Score:3, Interesting)
Norfolk, NE [norfolk.ne.us]. The air is clean, the people are nice, and crime is almost nonexistent. Sure, life in Small Town America isn't for everyone. If you're looking for a great quality of life, though, it may be something to consider.
There's no high-tech industry here to speak of, but there are plenty of high-tech jobs inside more traditional industries.
Re:Hard Times (Score:5, Interesting)