Monad Shell Removed From Vista 330
hggs writes "According to Stephen Toulouse at Microsoft, because of the possible virus threat that targets Monad the shell will not be included in Windows Vista. CNet is reporting that, even though Monad is not to be included on Vista, it will be included on a major server operating system for servers from Microsoft. Codenamed Longhorn server, that edition is due out by 2007." Update: 08/06 04:45 GMT by Z : As Mr. Toulouse states here, the submission here adds one and one and gets three. Monad hasn't been in Vista for about two months. The CNet article is clarifying a previous report stating that Monad could potentially be the first source of viruses in an OS which incorporated it. The interesting news about Monad in the server edition was obscured by the factually incorrect submission, which at first blush seemed to make sense. Mea Culpa.
Slide more and more... (Score:2)
Re:Slide more and more... (Score:5, Interesting)
If only it was VMS... (Score:5, Insightful)
Where's our versioning file system? Where's our ironclad clustering? (Someone who's a real VMS geek can probably offer more examples)
Micrsoft hires Dave Cutler, who wrote VMS, and a bunch of the DEC engineers, has them write a brand spankin' new OS to Rule Them All, and they try to sell some retarded crapheap that doesn't have some of the best features of the '80's.
Of course, the perfectly sensible reason they're selling a crapheap is that performance mattered more than a secure microkernel architecture (which NT, at one point, supposedly was), and backwards compatability with win32 is the only thing keeping people running to back to MS like a crackhead to his dealer.
Give me my good 'ol 70's Unix. The '80's died, and the 90's just won't.
Re:If only it was VMS... (Score:4, Interesting)
I've been away from VMS too long to call myself a real geek, but what I miss most when I'm using other OSs is the consistency.
Commands mean what you think and work the way you expect. The Procedure Calling Standard makes coding in different languages a breeze. The versioning file system saved my arse more than once too...
And of course, there was always EDT..
Trouble is, most of that sort of stuff is the result of solid design, and can't just be ported over. Adding a clever command shell to Windows is a good step, and from what I've seen, Monad has potential to be a very clever CLI, but it's resting on a system which was never designed to be as solid as VMS.
I've heard Longhorn/Vista described as the result of a collision between VMS and OSX Tiger, and while there's an element of truth there, I'd say the bits that survived the impact aren't the ones which make VMS so rock solid.
Re:Slide more and more... (Score:5, Funny)
Ahhh, a world where Microsoft makes vacuum cleaners.
Leibniz Predicted This (Score:3, Funny)
But now Windows seems less and less likely to have Monad.
What was MS thinking? Windows and monads just don't mix.
Re:Slide more and more... (Score:2)
Re:Slide more and more... (Score:3, Insightful)
BOGUS STORY SUBMISSION (Score:5, Informative)
MOD PARENT UP (Score:5, Insightful)
Read up: MS isn't 100% bad. They have some good stuff and good policies sometimes. Don't complain about them point blank to improve your ego, you'll be the kid that called wolf too many times.
Re:MOD PARENT UP (Score:3, Interesting)
Mmm. Interesting philosophy. I wonder if I can apply to other things... Let me try.
Jeffrey Dahmer isn't 100% bad. He does have some good qualities and does good things sometimes. Don't complain about him point blank to imrove yoru ego, you'll be the kid that called wolf too many times.
Hey that works pretty good.
FP (Score:2, Insightful)
I guess microsoft figures that only people who spend several thousand for a computer deserve even moderately capable tools.
Oh well. More and more reason to not bother upgrading, and gear towards an eventual switch to Linux someday.
Re:FP (Score:5, Funny)
- Slick 'Vista' wallpaper
- DRM to protect the wallpaper
Rock on!
Re:FP (Score:2, Insightful)
What a cop out excuse too. Oh gee, the scripting language is vulnerable to malicious programmers in the same way every programming language is.
Re:FP (Score:3, Informative)
As an aside, am I the only person who likes what he sees so far as MSH goes?
The last thing Microsoft can afford to do.. (Score:2)
...is build a great OS given the vast number of micro-markets that exist purely as a result of it's shortcomings. The bulk of system adminstrators would far rather Windows remain in constant need of nursing, for instance, just to keep their jobs. Put simplistically, the harder Windows is to administer, the better.
Focussing on the internal qualities of the product itself obscures a wider business sensibility intrinsic to market monopoly through downstream dependence from symptomatic service industries.
Win
Poster Wrong. (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Poster Wrong. (Score:2)
Actually its been known for longer than that:
Monad Shell (MSH) Chat Transcript December 2004:t rans/windowsnet/wnet_120704.mspx [microsoft.com]
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/community/chats/
Re:Poster Wrong. (Score:2)
Re:Poster Wrong. (Score:2)
Oh yeah- that will do a lot of good (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Oh yeah- that will do a lot of good (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Oh yeah- that will do a lot of good (Score:3, Insightful)
Remember that virus use "generic" tecnology, things that everybody has, IOW generic windows installations. If everybody has a powerful shell script like monad it'll be easier for virus writers to write virus. If it's optional, it will not be so dangerous because v
Re:Oh yeah- that will do a lot of good (Score:3, Funny)
Job Security!!
That's why they're not doing it. (Score:2)
Re:That's why they're not doing it. (Score:2)
That said, let me tell you... I can't wait for the day. Gurls dig low UID's, and, well, as you can see, they'll be all about me by about the time user number 1,000,000 comes around.
Slashdot pimpin' ain't easy, but it's necessary, so I'm chasing gurls like Tom chases Jerry!
Re:Oh yeah- that will do a lot of good (Score:2)
Re:Oh yeah- that will do a lot of good (Score:2)
As for this virus thingy, please explain to me how Monad is more dangerous than Bash.
I can extremely easily write in Bash a script that :
a) look for bash scripts on the system
b) Modify them to include the virus in them
c) Do whatever malicious thing I want
Monad is just the vector of the virus, you can write the virus in C, C++, Bash, Monad,
Please next time read before saying something stupid
Re:Oh yeah- that will do a lot of good (Score:2)
#!/bin/sh
find . -name '*.sh' -print0 | xargs -0 cp $0 {} \;
That one line bash script, that I just pulled out of my ass with 30s of thought, is equivalent to one of these new so-called ``Monad viruses''. Whoop-de-fucking do.
Re:Oh yeah- that will do a lot of good (Score:2)
Re:Oh yeah- that will do a lot of good (Score:2)
Huh? (Score:2)
Re:Huh? (Score:2)
Re:Huh? (Score:2)
because of the threat of viruses (Score:3, Funny)
Re:because of the threat of viruses (Score:2)
Re:because of the threat of viruses (Score:2)
OMG you have to love those marketing people.
"Yeah honey, you know, what I really want for Christmas this year is a copy of Microsoft Vista!" Barrrrrrf.
or as an alternative:
"Oh look, D3ll now has Vista on their PC's just in time for Christmas. I HAVE to buy a D3ll PC for Christmas now!" Urghghgh.
even better: "I spent New Year's Eve downloading Vista and the serial crack...Happy New Year Microsoft!"
Re:because of the threat of viruses (Score:2)
Re:because of the threat of viruses (Score:2, Funny)
Later this week they plan to unveil Gonad, the new MSShell.
A senior Microsoft developer leaked some details of the new Gonad shell "When you start the computer, it boots your Gonad and brings up a MShell". When pressed for further information, he said "Not now, I have a headache".
Re:because of the threat of viruses (Score:3, Funny)
Incidentally, how do you pronounce "MSShell?" Is it "Michelle" like the Beatles song, "mis-sel" as in ICBM, or "MS Hell" as in what happens when you use Windows?
Dont blame them (Score:2)
Idea (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Idea (Score:5, Funny)
It'd be funny, if only I were joking.
Re:Idea (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Idea (Score:2)
Microsoft Windows Longhorn, Palladium Edition.
Think anyone will buy it?
We get the point... (Score:5, Funny)
Welcome to the department of redundancy department...
If MS starts removing components... (Score:2)
Re:If MS starts removing components... (Score:3, Funny)
Dear God MORON... (Score:5, Informative)
Now some attention seekers claim they created a virus, which is no more powerful than anything you could currently do in VBScript and gets headlines. Now you link to a blog that says "There is no virus threat [TRUE!] and Mohad will not be in Vista [TRUE]" and conclude that A == B?! Dear god you people!
Re:Oh hush up! (Score:5, Funny)
I think I speak for the majority of slashdot when I say we are here to be told what to think, not to think for ourselves.
I get it now... Vista is Zen (Score:2)
I have become enlightened.
Way to go (Score:2)
The only way that these shells, which give a lot of flexibility and power to their users, are going to work is if there is a decent permission system to keep the bad scripts from doing any real damage. If they haven't do
Re:Way to go (Score:2)
Just what we needed (Score:5, Funny)
Windows will never be free of viruses (Score:2, Funny)
We're told that yet another feature won't be present in Windows Vista by someone who seems to think that there won't ever be a virus capable of penetrating Vista's "security". These Microsoft guys crack me up!
old news isn't it (Score:2)
Windows who? IMO
LoB
The summary couldn't have been more inaccurate! (Score:5, Informative)
From TFA:
"First of all, in examining the details of the reports, there is no Windows Vista virus described in them.
If one had read either of the two articles linked, one would realize that the so-called "viruses" are nothing more than malicious scripts. No software hole is exploited; the viruses are no more dangerous than any arbitrary piece of code running on your system.
They are not viruses; they only have the privileges that a user gives them. They're the same as any other executable file.
If a stranger sends you an executable, be it a script or a compiled program, and you run it, you're already in trouble. These scripts are nothing special.
Did the article author even read what he was submitting? The author states, "because of the possible virus threat that targets Monad the shell will not be included in Windows Vista", which could not be more deliberately misleading, and is contracted by both articles he links to!
I guess they've really castrated it now... (Score:3, Interesting)
Is this really the best response that Microsoft can come up with at a time when there is so much increased dissatisfaction with their endless upgrade cycle? If it is, then the F/OSS communities should probably increase their efforts to target the corporate desktop, because Microsoft doesn't appear to have anything of substance for several years! I'll bet Steve Jobs is laughing too; he's certainly picked the right time to go through the traumas of switching architecture.
Over Reaction (Score:2)
I not so sure a consumer version really needs a command line utility anyway. But what surprises me is that this is much of an issue. In the right (or wrong or nube) hands, bash is dangerous too. Big deal. Monad should have been left in, although it really needs a name that doesn't sound like an alien sex organ.
Re:Over Reaction (Score:2)
Sorry, perhaps I should have said "desktop" version instead. Sure, the average home user probably doesn't even know that CMD.EXE exists, but that version of Windows also becomes the corporate desktop OS. I was actually looking forward to having a half-decent shell scripting environment on Windows because it does have a lot of administrative uses. Far more functionality in login scripts primarily, but also for command line file
Re:I guess they've really castrated it now... (Score:2)
Oh, it will still have lots of shiny new "technologies" for developers who want to lock themselves into Vista and XP. But that's about all.
Um...old news... (Score:2)
Also, this [pcmag.com] story also states the same thing.
Also, it's not the shell that is insecure....it's the fact that most Windows users are still, to this day, forced to run as administrator to run some random programs that you shouldn't need Admin rights for either. Also, these same users do not know better and also whine when they have to type in a password. You can't change behavior that has
Worst. Slashdot summary. Ever. (Score:4, Informative)
An announcement from Fedora (Score:5, Funny)
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mobile search [mwtj.com]
tsk.. tsk.. /. (Score:2)
So this morning everyone enjoyed bashing M$ for their yet again voulnerable software. Even thought 'the virus' was just a script which, as in every shell, could do some damage.
Now M$ reacts in the most secure way and takes more time to make sure it's really idiot proof, and investigate how to make it actually safe the /.-crowd is bashing some more as M$ would be incompetent and slacking.
I don't like M$ either, but it's a bit disturbing that an otherwise rather intelligent crowd just goes into uncontrollab
Re:tsk.. tsk.. /. (Score:3, Informative)
Re:tsk.. tsk.. /. (Score:2)
That's because the
10 great windows vista features (Score:5, Funny)
One was WinFS and fell into a hole.
9 little windows Vista features walked around the park. The new shell slipped and fell into the pool and drowned.
8 little windows vista features walked around the park. DRM bully came and whacked them all dead.
No new Windows Vista features were left alive, so Microsoft put some new colors in and everybody bought it.
Same for IE? (Score:2)
Or, is this their way of telegraphing that we should consider IE no longer exploitable, because they haven't pulled it?
Probably somebody was making fun of them for putting in a command line just to catch up with the Unixy crowd.
Because of virus threat? (Score:2)
My submission title (Score:2)
Slashdot proves its idiocy once again (Score:2)
I'm embarrassed for the industry. I mean, come on. The facts:
- Monad has scripting functionality. OMG, scripts can do bad things! What do you expect, AI that detects if a script has malicious intent?
- Monad has been out of Vista for a long time. Long before the stupid "virus" FUD started.
Serveral servers? (Score:2)
I feel I have just bitten on a rather large hook. Even the editors are trolls these days
Great! (Score:2)
Uh, Guys... (Score:2)
http://www.microsoft-watch.com/article2/0,1995,182 6007,00.asp?kc=MWRSS02129TX1K0000535 [microsoft-watch.com]
The real reason is that MS hasn't been able to get it to work well enough to put in there.
The fact that it's insecure is well... since when has Microsoft products ever been secure?? Like releasing insecure program has ever been a problem for them? in the past? I think not!
It's too bad in a way. If they had gotten to work, if it could be
Monad, built my MSFT's Linux team (Score:2)
As for functionality, the shell looked really cool. It had a lot of *nix-like features on steroids, and integrated nicely with the
Why buy leghorn? (Score:2)
Wow is the headline WRONG! (Score:5, Insightful)
The author is pretty clear that the reported virii had ZERO effect on the choice to include monad or not.
Yet somehow the submitter was able to conclude "...because of the possible virus threat that targets Monad the shell will not be included in Windows Vista.". Will wonders ever cease to exist!
Why pay for windows with a "shell"? (Score:2)
Misleading story (Score:2)
http://www.microsoft-watch.com/article2/0,1995,18
If you read the text of the story from the MS guy, he never implies that it was removed b/c of security breaches. Oh wait, forgot about the
illogical (Score:2)
I Think This Piece Needs To Be Labeled a Dupe (Score:2)
It's been common knowledge for some time now that Monad would NOT be included in Vista, but either in a later version or in Exchange Server or some other Microsoft server product.
All this article says is that some bozo at Microsoft has said the same thing vis-a-vis the virus concepts being reported in some hacker zines (see related
This article should be treated as nothing more than an "update" of the Monad virus article - and not m
And now for something completely different (Score:2)
Monad has already cured cancer, you need only purchase Windows Vista to innoculate yourself.
Monad is an anagram for NadMo, which is Bill Gates' name for his Johnson.
Monad is also an anagram for "O, Damn!" which is funnier in Old English than Japanese.
The terrifying virus that terrified Microsoft into pulling Monad was written by a Linux sleeper cell with a creamy terroris
Slashdot sensationalism overflow recently. (Score:3, Insightful)
I understand the nature of slashdot. I used to be one of the linux zealots prowling the area. I read the front page and, very rarely, the articles. Not quite sure what made me do it this time. But letting disinformation such as this leak to the front page scares me, when useful stories from people are ignored all the time.
Re:Ah, good plan (Score:2)
Re:So what they are saying is... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:So what they are saying is... (Score:2)
Re:new, windows vista! (Score:2)
Maybe they should rename the next release Windows Something or Windows Maybe. How about Windows Almost?
Re:Everything must go (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Ladies and Gentlemen (Score:2)
No, really! (Score:2)
That's what I've been thinking - and other than Avalon their touted graphics engine, I can't think of a damned thing. Nothing. Does anyone know, what's actually in it?
Re:Ladies and Gentlemen (Score:2, Funny)
I get it! (Score:2)
1: Say what do you see when you look through your Windows?
2: A Vista?
1: Exactly. But what if your Windows lacked all the substance?
2: Wow, I could see right through them?
1: Right, and what would you get if your graphical engine could draw see through windows?
2: WOW! A translucent windows theme!!! *ASSPLODE!!*
Re:While they are at it... (Score:2)
This is obligatory...(missing option)
VREAST?
Re:While they are at it... (Score:2)
Re:I'll get it out of the way... (Score:2)
Re:Not the reason not in Vista (Score:2)
This just in! Running arbitrary code from an untrusted source not a security best-practice!
This is amazing spin. First of all, tech writers start clamoring that Monad suffers from vulnerabilities to viruses. These "viruses" are not malicious at all, they are just proof-of-concept scripts which are run as root (well, not root), not executed through a buffer overflow or something else like that. So
Re:Not the reason not in Vista (Score:2)
Always trust content from Microsoft?
[YES] [NO] [CANCEL]
Re:wow (Score:2)
Vista:
Something far off, that looks spectacular from a distance.
But, when you get there, it's mostly just a barren wasteland unfit for habitat.
Re:Tally for our Home Audience: (Score:2)