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The Internet IT

Little Interest In Next-Gen Internet 351

Ant wrote in to mention a Computerworld article that is reporting on the slow acceptance of the IPv6 version of the internet. From the article: "Information Technology (IT) decision-makers, in U.S. businesses and government agencies, want better Internet security and easier network management. However, few see the next-generation Internet Protocol called IPv6 as helping them achieve their goals, according to a survey released Tuesday by Juniper Networks Inc."
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Little Interest In Next-Gen Internet

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  • by strider44 ( 650833 ) on Thursday May 26, 2005 @10:55AM (#12644912)
    The reason why is there's not that much support or software for the protocol. As the summary said they want better security and easier management, but there's not even a good IPv6 firewall up and running, so why would they take it up?

    Wait a while until there's the software backing then you'll see companies using it.
  • Re:just wait... (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Chibi Merrow ( 226057 ) <mrmerrow&monkeyinfinity,net> on Thursday May 26, 2005 @10:57AM (#12644947) Homepage Journal
    Then they'll just rob blocks from people like MIT who have way too many and NAT the rest...
  • by Cheeze ( 12756 ) on Thursday May 26, 2005 @11:00AM (#12644974) Homepage
    nothing.

    That's right, upgrading your network and spending lots of time/money gets your organization nothing. Sure ipv4 space is limited, but what's wrong with a little conservation.

    I would bet most of the ip space is used for dialup users, where 1 dialup user = 1 ip address. Why not just NAT those dialup users? If you need a static ip address, do a 1:1 NAT or something. There's absolutely no reason a dialup user should have a public ip address.

    People that use the internet for e-mail/web browsing could care less about their ip address.

    Gaming on dialup hasn't really ever worked and is painful at best.

    Running a web server on a dialup connect? probably not.

    How many people still use dialup?
  • by the_xaqster ( 877576 ) on Thursday May 26, 2005 @11:00AM (#12644975) Homepage Journal
    Semes like someone could make a ton of money designing a IPv4 to IPv6 bridge, so you could run 2 network segments, expanding the IPv6 segment as you go.
  • I have a minimal (Score:5, Interesting)

    by macaulay805 ( 823467 ) on Thursday May 26, 2005 @11:05AM (#12645047) Homepage Journal
    I have a minimal writeup on my blog here [joeslife.info]. It states where I got my 6to4 tunnel from, how to activate the tunnel (in FreeBSD), and the problem I faced when activating the tunnel! All in all, now my webserver answers requests on ipv6!! Check it out! Its very easy, I suggest all geeks at least try this at home. Later tomorrow, once I'm done testing, I will put an extensive writeup on how to make your home network a functioning IPV6 ONLY network (includes: Windows Boxes, Mac Boxes, Linux Boxes, FreeBSD boxes, and OpenBSD Boxes).
  • by bnitsua ( 72438 ) on Thursday May 26, 2005 @11:06AM (#12645052)
    it took me 15 minutes to set up 6to4 on mac os x...
    I can access any ipv4 address or ipv6 address without any problems.
    but I guess that doesn't count as an "easy way...to try it out"
  • I could set up my servers to do IPv6, but I don't have sufficient motivation to do so. It takes time and energy to get this set up, and I don't see any return for doing so. This is because the network effect [wikipedia.org] is not yet strong enough. Someone has to work on getting IPv6 to "Cross the Chasm" [wikipedia.org] or to "the Tipping Point" [wikipedia.org].
  • by tarpitcod ( 822436 ) on Thursday May 26, 2005 @11:20AM (#12645220)
    Most users use a firewall to do NAT at the moment., they thus get some level of protection.

    Take that away, have loads of IPV6 addresses and un-informed consumers, and your setting yourself up for your uC driven toaster, oven, refrigerator, entertainment center etc spamming people.

    It just gives me the screaming heebie-jeebies -- does anyone else remember the feeling of walking into a PeeCee site that was 'internet connected'back in the 90's and asking what they were doing and finding out every un-patched PC had a distinct IP on the internet?
  • Re:Vested Interest (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Slashcrap ( 869349 ) on Thursday May 26, 2005 @11:46AM (#12645519)
    And Juniper Networks is pushing the idea that IPv6 is not on anybody's agenda because sell routers, NAT boxes and associated services.

    I'm pretty sure that Juniper sell IPv6 compliant kit and would love to sell more of it.

    I know for a fact that they sell VPN kit - NAT & IPSEC go together like oil and water. Yes, I know it does work but it's still a pain in the ass and I say this as someone that has to do it for a living.

    Remember kids, implementing IPSEC NAT-Traversal makes the baby Jesus cry.
  • Re:Vested Interest (Score:5, Interesting)

    by 99BottlesOfBeerInMyF ( 813746 ) on Thursday May 26, 2005 @11:47AM (#12645531)

    And Juniper Networks is pushing the idea that IPv6 is not on anybody's agenda because sell routers, NAT boxes and associated services.

    I hope you are joking. Juniper would love to sell upgrades of their router's to all of their current customers to facilitate the jump to IPv6, but as they said, customers are just not very interested. I work for a company that sells network security devices and I can tell you IPv6 has been on the agenda for a long time, but most of the IPv6 support just keeps getting pushed back further and further, because no one really wants it from us. The only reason to include it is because some of the asian market is starting to ask for it. The U.S. as a rule is uninterested.

  • Re:Vested Interest (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Joehonkie ( 665142 ) on Thursday May 26, 2005 @11:51AM (#12645588) Homepage
    Yeah, you pretty much misfired. They will still need to sell routers, and probably replace all the old ones. And think of all the money to be made on re-training and re-certification. Increasing the address space doesn't make the routers go away. IPv6 would probably require more memory and processing power if anything. Both Cisco and Juniper are TYRING to push IPv6. So, I think you misread their intentions.
  • One big question... (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 26, 2005 @11:55AM (#12645661)
    As a home user and/or a business, why would I want to do this?, other than to be able to say "Yay I'm cool, because I use IPv6?
  • Built in IPSEC, etc. (Score:2, Interesting)

    by SgtChaireBourne ( 457691 ) on Thursday May 26, 2005 @12:04PM (#12645761) Homepage
    Read up on IPv6 some time.

    It's got built in equivalent of IPSEC. That alone would go a long way in improving most computing environments.

    "Improved routing" refers to, among other things, route aggregation which reduces the size of routing tables which is helped by the simplified header which reduce router processing loads.

    Someone with more networking knowledge can clarify why the IPv6 functions are much better than the IPv4 ones, where they may appear to overlap.

  • Re:Vested Interest (Score:2, Interesting)

    by rnxrx ( 813533 ) on Thursday May 26, 2005 @12:23PM (#12646045)
    Juniper sells boxes that do NAT. They also sell boxes that route IPv6. People buy their equipment regardless.

    I don't think Juniper is pushing an anti-IPv6 agenda here - who do you think is providing a lot of the IPv6 routing infrastructure in DoD and Asia? They've got entire groups that do nothing but deal with IPv6. IPv4 vs. IPv6 in the Juniper world doesn't make that huge of a difference. They sell the same hardware either way.

  • IPv4 subset of IPv6 (Score:3, Interesting)

    by augustz ( 18082 ) on Thursday May 26, 2005 @12:58PM (#12646516)
    Given the quantity of addresses available for IPv6, I'm unsure as to why IPv4 couldn't / wasn't made a subset of IPv6?

    Right now we've got a catch-22 it seems. Why would I offer an IPv6 ONLY service, if that means a ton of my users will be locked out? As long as I offer an IPv4 service, why would my users switch? They can just use IPv4 up the stack.

    If IPv4 address were subsets of IPv6, couldn't an IPv4 users request an IPv4 address. Once it hits their ISP, check routing and prefix if possible with IPv6 prefix. This could happen anywhere along the line, including just the last hop. My server can just run an IPv6 stack, and know that the rest of the internet, IPv4 and 6, can reach it.

    Instead, we've got a "fresh start" approach, which seems like a bit of a stretch.

    Or am I missing something obvious here? It sure looks to me at this point that running an IPv6 only server is a bit complicated unless you set up a broker or something else manually.

  • by crovira ( 10242 ) on Thursday May 26, 2005 @01:22PM (#12646801) Homepage
    But is like USB adoption, Microsoft won't do it until 'Apple's done it'.

    Guess what? Apple's already done it, (with Airport Extreme and Express, with eight octet groups right on the hardware,) but they're not making a big deal out of it because Apple's customers are not tech savvy enough to know what the fuss is about anyway.

    All Apple need to do is start making a noise and Microsoft will once again play 'catch up.'

    I'm running IPv6 on my friggin LAN and the WAN is only running IPv4. Go figure?
  • Re:Vested Interest (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Magada ( 741361 ) on Friday May 27, 2005 @07:32AM (#12653544) Journal
    "IP6 adoption would probably just make folks buy home routers all over again". Laughable. With such an enormous adress space, IP's will commodify in no time flat, thus making the "router" concept irrelevant for all but a handful of applications, along with all of the "advanced features" of firewall boxes nowadays, which mainly deal with NAT anyway. Get real. When/if IPv6 comes, you'll have no reason whatsoever to continue buying stuff from Juniper&co.

Our OS who art in CPU, UNIX be thy name. Thy programs run, thy syscalls done, In kernel as it is in user!

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