419 Scammer Gets Scammed

johnduffell writes "There's a lot of awareness of 419 scams at the moment, including a report from the BBC of a baiter who managed to get $80 and a birthday card by courier! He did this by convincing the scammer that he was in the Church of the Painted Breast and there's even a photo of the scammer with his breast painted! Presumably the scammers are hoping that the scammees are as stupid as they are."

Two wrongs don't make a right!

[beh]

The question now is just, whether the stupid idiot on the other hand might
actually sue those who tricked him for having been scammed for US$80.

There is not much chance he would get anything out of this, as he
tried to scam people himself, nevertheless - it might keep the guy
here quite busy for a while (because he might STILL have to appear
in front of a court).

Now - THAT would be interesting to see... ;-)

Always remember - they might be on the "safe side", since THEIR
judicial system doesn't care too much about them. But on the other
hand, by tricking the 419 scammer out of his money, we are breaking
OUR laws (be that in the US, Europe, or wherever you are - and our
courts look very different on these issues!). Or - in simple
terms: Two wrongs don't make a right!

Also - in comparison, the guy in Nigeria is guilty of ATTEMPTED
fraud, whereas the guy who tricked him out of his US$80 is guilty
of ACTUAL fraud...

Don't get me wrong - I'm all for making sure that this whole 419
scam thing stops. But I don't think we should simply skip the
principles of our 'western world' while doing it!

This is funny but,

[Anonymous Coward]

Isn't running a reverse scam like this one illegal? I mean, the nigerian scammer got what he deserved in every way, but isn't it kind of dangerous to do these kinds of reverse scams? I know the governments in the U.S. and UK might actually prosecute, which the nigerian scammers don't have to worry about from their govs.

Double ended Greed

[Quirk]

Greed is the common denominator whether it be the greed of the scamee or of the scamer. It goes way back to the old adage, if it sounds too good to be true, it probably isn't. Couple greed to gulibility and you've got the wild west show that is the www.

There's no way they could really press charges.

[Beardo the Bearded]

If they ever knocked on the 419 eater's door, all he'd have to say is, "Listen, I know what it looks like on the website, but it's all photoshopped and fake. I emailed the guy, but he never sent the money. It's my cash, a picture the guy sent, and a photoshopped photo of the envelope."

They'd never get a conviction.

I AM NOT A LAWYER, but if the guy ever gets that knock, the only thing he should say is, "I want a lawyer," over and over again until he gets one.

You're correct, though: two wrongs don't make a right. There's no point in having a Criminal Justice system if we don't uphold our laws and lead by example. Rather than punish the scammer by ripping him off, he should have used the information he gathered to get charges pressed against him in Nigeria.

Re:Two wrongs don't make a right!

[NeoSkandranon]

I rather doubt the US would extradite to Nigeria over anything

Re:You know...

[king-manic]

...the first time one of these smarmy nerds gets his ass handed to him by a pissed-off criminal, I'll definitely be feeling the urge to laugh a bit...

Firstly, the only way this will happen if said nerd went to the criminals country. Which would be incredibly stupid. Secondly, most of these scammers are of relativly modest means. they couldn't scrounge up the cash to get a visa and fly into the states to do anything, their also pretty dumb. They might be able to track down the person via email and ip look ups and so on, but generally their too dumb for that. Maybe 1 in 100 scamemr could do that. If they were wealthy enough, and smart enough to track them down, find them, they'd also be smart enough to realise ti'd be difficult to get away with it on us soil.

Re:Two wrongs don't make a right!

[Phisbut]

If the scammer decides to sue the scambait, he'd have to do it on US (or Europe) territory, therefore exposing himself to a counter-sue (probably for attempted fraud). Both for the original suit defense and for the counter-suit, the scambait's party could require some financial records of the scammer to be examined. Those examinations could reveal the actual fraud on thousands of victims, thus enabling a major class-action suit from all the victims against the original scammer...

I doubt the scammer will expose himself to that kind of risk...

But then again... IANAL...

Is it just me?

[hsoft]

Or these successful counter-scams (this one and the p-p-p-powerbook thing) sound too funny to be real? The more I think about it, the more I think these counter-scams are just hoax posted by some guys looking for cyber-attention. Well, the p-p-powerbook thing seemd to involve too many people not to be real, but this breast painting thing definately sounds like a hoax to me.

Re:You know...

[kfg]

If you read the article and/or had ever read 419eater you'd know that this is an extensive international ring.

As it happens they have confederates in London and Mike can be assumed to be in England given that it's a BBC story. Holland is also a big center of the "Nigerian" scam. They can afford all of this because, I'm afraid, the scam actually works.

While the poor schlubs who actually work the scam in the initial phases are poor patsys the people actually working the scam are rich, powerful and often even Nigerian government and law enforcement officers, which is part of what makes prosecutions of the scammers a nonstarter in Nigeria.

KFG

Re:It's a reverse scam, but not for personal gain

[RetroGeek]

Therefore he's clearly not doing this for personal gain.

Seems to me there is a fairy tale about this...

Oh yes, Robin Hood!

Still, it does not make it right. Committing a crime is committing a crime. The ends do NOT justify the means, or else our society becomes lawless.

Think of the terrorists. They commit crimes for their "justice". Your point of view may differ.

illogical conclusions

[ffoiii]

"This would all be funny if it wasn't for the millions of dollars being stolen and probably put into drugs or other criminal activities."

Everything was fine in the article until this stupid line. It's just a scam, it's just someone trying to make some cash.

THERE IS NO CORRELATION TO DRUGS OR SATAN OR PURPLE MUPPETS, WHAT WOULD MAKE YOU THINK THAT THERE IS?

The moral difference: con vs countercon

[Baron_Yam]

Con artists target the greedy and gulible... They target you and try to convince you that you can scam them.

Conning a con artist is NOT equivalent - you're scamming a person who deliberately targeted you in hopes of stealing from you.

As far as I'm concerned, conning a con artist is like beating the crap out of someone who tries to mug you - something that should be applauded.

Not All Nigerians are Scammers

[frank249]

Last fall I received an email from a Nigerian who identified himself as a psychologist and was interested in obtaining some stress management materials I referenced on my website. As soon as I read it I thought to myself that this was going to be the start of a 419 scam. I almost ignored it but then thought that I would play along. I told him that to mail the materials I would need $15US to cover the postage and to my surprise a couple weeks later a cheque arrived. I was sure it was going to bounce but when it didn't, I sent him what he asked for. The moral is that Nigeria is a big country and not everyone there is trying to run a scam.

Re:Two wrongs don't make a right!

[cayenne8]

If this 'reverse' scam was pulled off in the US.....I'd hope they'd put ME on the jury. No way I'd vote this guy guilty. In the US, the jury box is still the one place that any common citizen is as powerful as the President of the US.....at least as I understand it.

Re:Is it just me?

[Anonymous Coward]

I think you're overestimating the average scammer's intelligence. A few may be criminal masterminds-- especially the ones who actually dream up the scams-- but a far greater number are copycats going by-the-book. I mean, how many of them can't be bothered to find a proofreader who speaks English to correct their e-mails and dummy sites?

Also, keep in mind how many hail from countries outside of North America and Europe. They may know how to run an out-of-the-box scam, but they probably don't understand our society and sense of humor (or at least, our geeks' sense of humor.) I would think it would be easy to get low-rent wannabe criminal from a third world country to go through hoops if he thinks he's landed a sucker.

I know a law

[coljac]

It's the anti-fraud statute. I mean, duh - lying to get money from someone is the very definition of fraud.

Re:Applauded? maybe but you still go to jail.

[Baron_Yam]

Arrested, but not always convicted. Juries can be smarter than laws.

Re:Under Sharia law, the scammers get a hand cut o

[Dimensio]

Well, how exactly was he to know the circumstances of your breaking and entering?

The situation that you describe is incredibly far-fetched. How often do people break into the homes of others for benign purposes?

If I catch an intruder in my home, I'm going to assume nefarious intent rather than that he simply needed to use the phone and didn't think to try a different house when no one answered after he knocked.

Re:Pit Nicking

[Just Some Guy]

You're binding "is" to "too good to be true". I've also heard "isn't" bound to "true".

In other words, you're saying "if it sounds too be true, it probably is (too good to be true)". Other people have said "if it sounds too good to be true, it probably isn't (true)".

The statements mean the same thing and neither needs corrected.