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Toys Upgrades

The Return of the Sparrow Electric Vehicle? 347

Posted by simoniker from the fluttering-about dept.
H0NGK0NGPH00EY writes "I have been keeping my eye on the Sparrow electric vehicle, following last year's bankruptcy of its creator, and recently noticed that the brightly-colored three-wheeled electric commuter car has been reborn. Myers Motors will begin selling an upgraded version this summer, after having acquired the rights and tooling from Phoenix Environmental Motors, who mention this on their official homepage."
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The Return of the Sparrow Electric Vehicle? More

The Return of the Sparrow Electric Vehicle?

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  • So what you're getting at is.. (Score:5, Funny)

    by Motherfucking Shit ( 636021 ) on Wednesday June 23, 2004 @10:49PM (#9514561) Journal
    ..first it was a sparrow, then it was a dodo, now it's a phoenix?

  • Comment removed (Score:3, Insightful)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) * on Wednesday June 23, 2004 @10:49PM (#9514565)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion
    • This is a great example of a staggeringly well-designed technology. Efficient, clean, useful, and damn cool looking, if you ask me. I want one.
      • I can't understand why this is news. The market has shown that nobody wants a car that has to be plugged in for 6 hours just to be driven for 30min at top speed. Put a fuel cell in it and it could become a critical app.

      • Re:I think its beautiful (Score:5, Interesting)

        by mad.frog ( 525085 ) <steven@crinkli n k .com> on Thursday June 24, 2004 @02:10AM (#9515587)
        Yes, it is beautiful, but it is NOT "staggeringly well designed." Trust me on this; I was a former owner of a Sparrow, and found out -- the hard way -- that a three-wheeled, rear-driven layout is fundamentally unstable in the event of fishtail: flip, roll, totaled.

        In addition, the quality of both design and construction was truly dismal. I wondered sometimes if the Corbins didn't bother to design anything ahead of time, but just sort of threw things together, bodged it around until it worked, kinda.

        They had a cool concept, but absolutely no idea how to actually execute that in a reliable and profitable way, and so the Sparrows were MASSIVELY unreliable; mine was out of service for, literally, 2/3 or 3/4 of the time I owned it, and stalled -- twice! -- crossing the Bay Bridge. (Ever been stalled on the Bay Bridge? Now imagine doing so in a very small fiberglass container.)

        No... there's no way this vehicle can be worthwhile without a ground-up redesign by folks who actually know what they are doing. I know nothing of Myers Motors, so maybe they are smart folks, but if they're starting with the existing design, they've already made a big mistake.

        If, say, Honda, or Toyota, or even Piaggio, designed a vehicle like this, I might be interested....

        (For more info on a Sparrow's crashworthiness, see: http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/sparrow_ev/m essage/3680)
        • Yes, it is beautiful, but it is NOT "staggeringly well designed." Trust me on this; I was a former owner of a Sparrow, and found out -- the hard way -- that a three-wheeled, rear-driven layout is fundamentally unstable in the event of fishtail: flip, roll, totaled.

          Here's a vehicle that solves that problem: Carver [carver.nl]

    • Re:Ew (Score:5, Informative)

      by EtherAlchemist ( 789180 ) on Wednesday June 23, 2004 @11:06PM (#9514688)
      The Merlin Roadster is also a three wheel drive, but not as ugly and has an ICE. A mini review is here [edgereview.com].
    • hehe, do think they made it look like a nose on purpose??
    • There's some ugly cars out there.

      But you're right, I can think of no production car that is more hideous then this one. And the guy that said it's beautiful must have also purchased a purple iMac and never replaced the stupid mouse.

    • Re:Ew (Score:3, Informative)

      by deglr6328 ( 150198 )
      Electric cars don't NEED to be ugly, slow and have tiny ranges. Take the tZero [acpropulsion.com] for instance, 100 mile range, top speed of ~100 mph, 0-60 in 4 seconds; handily beating Ferraris and Porsches in an 1/8 mile. and it's only moderately hideous looking! The price, however, is entirely hideous.
      • Take the tZero for instance, 100 mile range, top speed of ~100 mph, 0-60 in 4 seconds; handily beating Ferraris and Porsches in an 1/8 mile.

        Because as we all know, Ferraris and Porsches are designed for one thing: 1/8 mile runs. (sarcasm). There are Honda Civics out there that will beat a Ferrari in an 1/8 mile. What does it prove? Nothing. For $10,000 you could make a frickin picnic table run those speeds if you really wanted to.

        The tZero is an unproducable (the linked website still says producti
    • It looks like those plastic fisher price cars trendy parents bought their toddlers 12 years ago.

  • They need to plan for low sales. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by blair1q ( 305137 ) on Wednesday June 23, 2004 @10:50PM (#9514568) Journal
    Too many "alternative" ideas don't understand that "different" and "popular" are very rarely correlated.

    • Niche market (Score:3, Interesting)

      by freejung ( 624389 ) *
      On the other hand, this is an excellent example of targeting a niche market. There are those whose values would lead them to buy something like this, and by catering to that market, you are pretty much guaranteed a customer base. Just because your market is small doesn't mean you can't be successful, especially in a niche where there isn't much competition.

      If I could afford one at the moment, I would put myself on the list right now. Next time I'm in the market for a car, I'll probably buy one, or somethi

    • And price. I think it's a failure to the masses, but at least they're not so pretentious about their product, unlike Dean Kamen and his certain scooter. Remember, it will promise to "change the way cities are made"!
    • The smart car [thesmart.co.uk] is a low selling, rather dinky car which is VERY popular with businesses around here. Any company that needs to get its people around quite quickly- but doesnt need them to haul a tonne of stuff - seems to be buying one of these and covering it in logos.

      They have low running costs, have an environmental cool image, show forward / independent thinking, and are noticable on the road. They do a pretty good job.

      They are SCARY to drive at anything over 60mph though - you feel like your only touch

  • Styling (Score:5, Funny)

    by MrNonchalant ( 767683 ) on Wednesday June 23, 2004 @10:51PM (#9514574)
    There was an old lady who drove in a shoe...

    • Re:Styling (Score:2, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Check out the Toyota Personal Mobility Vehicle.

      It really kicks ass.

      http://auto.howstuffworks.com/toyota-pm.htm

      Toyota's approach is the way you're supposed to do small vehicles.. That is, not by making an ugly ass unsafe car!

      • It also doubles as your coffin once you are run over by the soccer mom yakkin' on her cell phone while going to pick up the rugrats.

  • My concerns (Score:5, Insightful)

    by SabrStryk ( 323739 ) <sabrstryk@carolina.r[ ]om ['r.c' in gap]> on Wednesday June 23, 2004 @10:51PM (#9514579)
    If I didn't already have a solid-performing, small Civic, I'd seriously think about one of these.

    Except that I drive too much.

    Commuter market is hard to handle. One has to worry about safety in city driving, and how close to work one has to be for it to be practical. If you work in any sort of fabrication facility, chances are you live a good distance from work. Wouldn't want to run out of juice on the side of the road in a vehicle that's difficult to refuel w/o a large time investment.
    • I could see this used to get to and fro the suburban commuter rail station every day. Like, when bicycle is not an options due to health, sweat, or bad weather.

    • Id buy one of these if it has a gas motor (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Via_Patrino ( 702161 ) on Wednesday June 23, 2004 @11:29PM (#9514823)
      Good aerodinamics (small contact area), small wheight, better security and weather protection than a motorcycle. Everything I would like in a ... gas vehicle.

      Id buy one of these if it has a gas motor, I dont want to pay the wheight and cost of batteries, and want the flexibility (refueling everywhere) and manutenability of a gas engine. (no need to change that whole battery set once and while)

      I seriously want a gas engine vehicle that consume much less, but no way Id like a battery powered vehicle.

      • You want the Smart Fortwo, (rumored to be coming to America in 2006).

      • Where's the Trunk?

        Will this thing fit anything other than the driver? With a 20mile range (requring most people to recharge it at work, good luck finding a plug), and no cargo room (can you figure out where to put your laptop/groceries?), you might as well ride a bike.

        (the commute will take 1-1.5hrs on a bike, you can carry a signifigant cargo capacity, and all you need to recharge is a snickers bar)

        On a side note, would this little thing FIT an average American? I'm not exadgerating. I woudn't want to

  • Imagine.... (Score:3, Funny)

    by Doc Squidly ( 720087 ) on Wednesday June 23, 2004 @10:54PM (#9514600)
    ...a Beowulf Cluster of those things.

    Or, just buy a regular car.

  • A good idea (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 23, 2004 @10:54PM (#9514601)
    Strike 1: it's electric. After listening to the Big 3 say for years and years no one wants electric cars, the public doesn't want electric cars. Baaaa.

    Strike 2: single seater. After listening to the Big 3 say for years and years that SUV's and trucks can do more for you, the public won't care about a car with a single seat. Baaaa.

    Strike 3: limited range. After listening to the Big 3 say for years and years that a car should be able to drive across the US or Canada on a moment's notice... eh, you get the idea.

    Sparrow concept = neat
    Sparrow sales will = bleh

    Personally, I like the Tango [commutercars.com] more than the Sparrow.
    • I agree that the sales aren't likely to take off, but if they had the money to start some massive marketing, they certainly could. How many households have two or more cars? Now how many of those households actually require both of those cars to have 4+ seats and go 300+ miles per tank?

      I wouldn't replace both my cars with an electric commuter car like this one, but I just might replace at least one of them.

      Personally, I like the Tango more than the Sparrow.

      So do I, but the reality is that the Sparr

      • Re:A good idea (Score:2, Informative)

        by randyest ( 589159 )
        but the reality is that the Sparrow is being sold right now

        Er, no it isn't. The article summary:

        Myers Motors will begin selling an upgraded version this summer . . .

        And from the mfg website:

        Soon, you will be able to purchase your Sparrow Classic on-line through our secure ecommerce connection. In the meantime, you can secure your place in our production and delivery schedule by reserving your Sparrow Classic now!

        A press release and a website, even on the fron page of /., do not a deliver

        • Re:A good idea (Score:4, Informative)

          by H0NGK0NGPH00EY ( 210370 ) on Thursday June 24, 2004 @12:11AM (#9515039) Homepage
          #1 - I wrote the article summary. I know what it says.

          #2 - They're taking money, and they have stock on hand. Delivery will be within the year. This is a lot more solid than your average Slashdot vaporware.

          A grand total of one Tango exists. The single prototype. The inventor is in the process of developing an $85,000 kit-car version, but even that doesn't yet exist. So yes, the Sparrow is being sold right now, and the Tango isn't.

          I have actually been following these things pretty closely. I didn't just happen across some press release and submit it to Slashdot. Alternatives to the dinosaur that is the ICE have been a keen interest of mine for quite some time now [slashdot.org].

          • Re:A good idea (Score:3, Interesting)

            by BrookHarty ( 9119 )
            A lady at our work bought a used Bluebird Sparrow for 5K before batteries. Also no sales tax on the Batteries.

            Work put in a special parking spot with power outlet, so she can charge it. They get a tax write off for supporting alternative vehicals.

            She drives it from Seattle to Bothell every day. Few problems, but it fits her needs. She did have to buy a new drive belt, but no other problems yet.

            We already have a bunch of people looking and useing smaller bio-diesel trucks.

            Small niche companies can make a
    • You ever think that maybe this car simply is not practical in any city in the US, especially those where highway driving is essential? Nah, can't be. It has to be the automakers brainwashing people. Nobody'd pass up an electric nose with one seat on their own...
    • The "Big 3"? You make it sound like if it wasn't for the opinions of car companies that consumers would just flock in droves to the "superior" one seater, electric vehicles, that can't drive long distances.

      Sparrow concept = just a concept
      Sparrow utility = completely impracticle for 99% of people, although you can always find a niche market for something like this.

  • Range? (Score:4, Informative)

    by Man of E ( 531031 ) <i.have@no.email.com> on Wednesday June 23, 2004 @10:57PM (#9514611)
    The first site gives the range as 40-60 miles, but Myers Motors says 20-40 miles. That makes a huge difference! Basically, if you drive 20 miles to your job, you might not have enough juice to make it back home according to Myers!

    In any case, note that since top speed is 70mph, you'll only be able to drive 20 to 30 minutes at that speed. That hardly even qualifies as a commute by many people's standards!

    It's a neat idea, but the batteries just aren't there. Still, I'm sure that battery technology has advanced a bit since 2000, right? Maybe they'll produce yet another upgraded version soon.

    • Re:Range? (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Daedius ( 740129 )
      Yah, I definately agree with you. The speed is there, but definately not the distance. If this thing could get me at least 100 miles i'd buy one in a second. Also, they could have probably come up with a much better looking design for the car, it looks like the car melted while it was recharging! Speaking of recharge, does anyone know how long it takes?
      • Speaking of recharge, does anyone know how long it takes?

        RTFA: 6 hours from a 110 volt North American power outlet, and about half that for the European 220 volt version.
    • Batteries are batteries... battery technology has hardly advanced at all in just 4 short years... I'm sure this thing is using regular lead-acid batteries. These are still pretty much the best for this sort of thing when you take into account power capacity, current flow and cost. When it comes right down to it, there really isn't that much difference from the batteries that people were using to start their cars 70 years ago. The technology is basically the same. The primary differences are tolerance

  • It was a flop the first time round... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by keefey ( 571438 ) on Wednesday June 23, 2004 @10:57PM (#9514612)
    Fire the market researchers! Why didn't they learn, right back from this [nvg.ntnu.no] - The Sinclair C5. It failed then, so why don't they learn that people don't want to ride around in something that makes them look like a fool?

    Now, if they follow the examples set by manufacturers such as Toyota, where they make hybrid, dual fuel cars (gas/electric) that switch fuel type depending on the usage, we'll get to the point where we can effectively use less damaging energy sources. We're getting there, slowly, but this just isn't it.
    • There are two big problems with electric cars:

      1. The battery pack for a true-electric car takes up a massive amount of interior space. You ever seen how much interior space is taken up by the battery packs on the GM EV1?

      2. The range is woefully too limited for general use. 60-70 mile range won't cut it for most users.

      With today's hybrid vehicles, you get very low tailpipe emissions and amazing range on a tank of gasoline (if driven below 70 mph). And you're not tied up to an electric outlet waiting for h

  • Now why would I want one of these (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 23, 2004 @10:58PM (#9514626)
    when I can run my beauty on the one substance that stands for peace, freedom and the fight against terrorism - Liberated Iraqi Oil.

  • Practical? (Score:2, Insightful)

    by batkid ( 448363 )
    My main question is: how practical is this car? You have to pay over 13,000 for something that only seat one. What if you have to fit wife, kids, and dogs into your car?

    I personally would only consider an electric car if it comes in a wagon.

    • Re:Practical? (Score:5, Funny)

      by CatGrep ( 707480 ) on Wednesday June 23, 2004 @11:06PM (#9514682)
      What if you have to fit wife, kids, and dogs into your car?

      Some might consider it an advantage that all of those entities won't fit in the car.

      • Re:Practical? (Score:2, Funny)

        by kfg ( 145172 )
        I always liked the compromise of my FIAT 124 spider or Triumph GT6. Petite little chippies could slide right into the passenger seat, but 250 pound baboons couldn't even attempt it.

        They screwed with the Miata by making it fit the average American. I hate that.

        My old RD400 was cool too, not only could you fit the chippie on the back, but she had to hang on, and it was really easy to ditch her if she started to get too whiney.

        KFG

      • Re:Practical? (Score:3, Insightful)

        by Insightfill ( 554828 )
        As the owner of a Honda Insight, I agree. (BTW: the "people mover" in the family is a VW wagon.)

        In most families, one (or both) cars makes a morning commute of 30-45 minutes, then another one back of the same time. The driver is almost always ALONE.

        In these families, one vehicle is often larger than the other (a minivan or SUV) and takes the kids, dog, etc. all over town, but the smaller vehicle almost never does these chores.

        Face it: nobody ever has said about a Corvette the same thing - "How am I goi

    • Re:Practical? (Score:4, Funny)

      by Kenja ( 541830 ) on Wednesday June 23, 2004 @11:17PM (#9514760)
      If you own one of these odds are your a nerd. So no wife and thus no kid. Now I WOULD bitch about the lack of room for adding computers, gps and Mp3 systems.
    • First, do you notice all the Wagon's, Van's, Sport Van's (SUV's) driving buy that weigh many tons and having room for 6?

      Having two vehicles would make more sense.
      A one commuter car, and a family/friends car.

      An electric hummer is hardly more efficient or better on the environment than a gas one. You would still be driving a giant cube vehicle around.

  • Improved! Now with brakes that work! (Score:5, Interesting)

    by CatGrep ( 707480 ) on Wednesday June 23, 2004 @10:59PM (#9514635)
    Given the number of times that brakes are mentioned in the list of improvements, one wonders if the lack of braking lead to the financial demise of the original company...


    (the following upgrades and fixes have been added) :
    Improved Braking
    Dielectric grease in connector     [very nice]
    Hard washers for Wheel bearings
    New outer suspension, complete with brakes [!?]
    Cover for front brake lines to eliminate shorting
    Hard tubing for brake lines
    Moved brake pressure line switch.

  • Not a car (Score:5, Insightful)

    by JanneM ( 7445 ) on Wednesday June 23, 2004 @11:02PM (#9514655) Homepage
    I don't think you should see it as a replacement for a car; rather it is an all-weather, electric alternative to a scooter, commuter bike or delivery vehicle. In Sweden, similar small, enclosed gasoline-engine moped-classed vehicles have become popular for just those roles. This could probably be a good higher speed alternative.

    I guess that in a way, having USA as their home marked is not a good thing. You would probably see a lot more acceptance for this in Europe.

    • Exactly. This car would do well in Europe, but it's completely doomed in the US.
      • we've already had the future of personal transport over here for years... the Sinclair C5 [sinclairc5.com]

        they went down as well as Windows ME at a Linux Conference.

        we've also done brightly coloured three-wheelers too... that design classic the Reliant Robin [3wheelers.com]

        However just when you think all european design sucks, take a look at the sexy Carver [3wheelers.com] from the netherlands.

        This is the way manufacturers will get people to buy smaller more efficient vehicles, in my opinion, by making them desirable and functional. Beautiful d
  • Myers Motors? As in Mike "groovy baby" Myers?

  • having acquired the rights and tooling from Phoenix Environmental Motors

    I did not know you can acquire the rights to Ugly! Good design, yes, patents, yes, ugly, I don't think so, and this car is just ugly!

  • Ugly (Score:3, Insightful)

    by amacedo ( 779821 ) on Wednesday June 23, 2004 @11:07PM (#9514694) Homepage
    The people responsible for this business plan need to understand that, if an invention turns out to be ugly, the chances than it can be spinned into something fashionable are quite slim.

    They should be working to mitigate that, not enhance it by painting it purple!

  • Sparrow? (Score:3, Funny)

    by Quirk ( 36086 ) on Wednesday June 23, 2004 @11:10PM (#9514710) Homepage Journal
    It looks like a giant duck bill... the daffy mobile

  • Cost (Score:5, Insightful)

    by hobit ( 253905 ) on Wednesday June 23, 2004 @11:16PM (#9514753)
    At around $14,000 and only a 20-40 mile range I really can't see this as a real option for anyone. You can buy a hybrid car at that price. And get a range closer to 400 miles....

    If the price were around $3,000 I'd consider it. Heck, even if the top speed were around 45 MPH I'd be happy enough.

    • Re:Cost (Score:3, Interesting)

      by H0NGK0NGPH00EY ( 210370 )
      At around $14,000 and only a 20-40 mile range I really can't see this as a real option for anyone. You can buy a hybrid car at that price. And get a range closer to 400 miles...

      Really? You can't see it as an option for anyone? As I stated in an above post, many families have two cars. There really isn't a need for both of those cars to seat 4 and have a 400 mile range. The vast majority of the time, one of the two cars doesn't go more than 50 miles in a day, with one person in it. Why wouldn't a Spa

      • Re:Cost (Score:3, Insightful)

        by Osty ( 16825 )

        Okay, now you're just being totally unrealistic. Gas powered cars have been around for over a century, and you can't buy one of those brand new for even twice that price.

        The Sparrow is more similar to an enclosed motorcycle than a car, and in fact has motorcycle status in most areas for HOV lane purposes (2 or 3 person car pools and motorcycles get to use a special lane). You can buy a very good commuter motorcycle for $3000. In my opinion, the original poster is correct. A price closer to $3000 rat

      • The reason Corbin dropped this - and the reason it is doomed no matter how many fools decide to ride this wagon - is because any company selling a three wheeled car is going to last only as long as it takes the first person to be killed or mamed in a rollover at 60MPH. Corbin is a nice guy and it's good to see he'll not be the one sued out of existence when the first family member rolls into court in his shiny new wheelchair.

        They can spin physics with all the sales pitches they want, a three wheeled vehicl


      • What's not to love?
        Oh I don't know, the fact that it's a 3 wheeled death trap. It has all the dangers of a motorcycle, and none of the range or fun. It costs as much as a hybrid car. Going out 20 to 30 miles (and more realistically 15-25 miles for a good safety margin) before you have to head back and recharge for 4 hours (minimum) isn't very practical.

        I guess it might be good for going to the grocery store to get a bag of groceries, but hope you don't need to drive anyone anywhere. It's also ugly a

  • REVA-Electric car from India (Score:4, Informative)

    by earthstar ( 748263 ) on Wednesday June 23, 2004 @11:20PM (#9514771) Journal
    Hey ppl! Chk out this electric car -REVA [revaindia.com] -from India.
    Features Grab:
    This elegant, light-yet rugged, two-door sedan comfortably seats 2 adults in the front and 2 children upto a height of 5' and 6" (165 cms) in the rear. It has a range of 80 kilometers in stop-and-go city driving, and a top speed of 65 km/h.
    you can read a review about it Here [indiamart.com]
    It costs somethin like Rupees.2.20 lakhs (which is abt $5300).

  • how about a solar charging option? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by egburr ( 141740 ) on Wednesday June 23, 2004 @11:27PM (#9514807) Homepage
    They've got a really nice site that lets you choose from a dozen different colors (I really liked the dark purple) for the car, but what I would really like to see is an option to cover it with solar cells so it can recharge on its own. That should extend the driving range slightly, but most importantly it would recharge it while I am sitting in the office for 8 hours.

    What really has me curious is why they included power ports for laptops in the thing. With the battery life it has (or hasn't), who would dare add on anything that would use more electricity?

    For that matter, why have power windows? The only reason I like power windows is so I can raise/lower passenger and rear windows. In this car, there isn't a window that is even the slightest bit difficult to reach by the driver.

  • $14,000? This won't succeed (Score:3, Insightful)

    by hattig ( 47930 ) on Wednesday June 23, 2004 @11:27PM (#9514809) Journal
    Unless as a personal intra-city transport device, and even then:

    1) Bad weather places that are congested
    2) In a city like London, a small vehicle is good
    3) If this vehicle was exempt from the 5/day congestion fee

    If you drive daily in London, then this vehicle could save you up to 1500 in congestion charges **IF** this vehicle was exempt because it was small and non-polluting. In 5 years that would be around the cost of the vehicle itself.

    It has enough power to get you to and from work in a small area. It is ugly and geeky, so it won't get stolen. You can rent a garage for your main car somewhere cheap for when you need to do a long journey somewhere.

    Somehow I don't see the government wanting to give up precious congestion charge fees, even to forward small economical (? how much does the electricity for a full charge cost in this vehicle anyway ?) vehicles over large uneconomical ones.
    • Ah, 8kW is a full charge. In the UK that is around 80p, or 25p if you charge overnight and you have an economy electricity plan. (My electricity is 12.4p / unit during the day, and 2.78p / unit overnight, dropping to 5.82p and 2.68p respectively after a certain amount of usage.

      A normal car doing 30mpg would cost around 3.60 to go the same distance as that 25p/80p electricity. So the running costs are 1/14th to 1/3rd of a petrol engine. Of course, you could buy a cheap 1.0l diesel that does 50mpg to somewha
  • I actually like the idea of electric cars. For one, my work is only about 3 miles away from my house. I could use a bicycle, but if it rains or snows, or cold out, thats out. I bought a cheap car to get me too and from work and it is reliable. But with the gas prices going up, it would be nice not to spend a penny on gas. Now, I don't pay for electricty either, so plugging in a car to my outlet is no big deal to me (AF base, free utiliteis).

    Has anyone figured out how much your electric bill would go up by
  • i don't like that it has 600 lbs of batteries and such a short range. i something like this but with a 500 or 1000 cc turbodiesel would be a lot faster and have much better range, depending on the tank size (600 lbs is almost 100 gallons).

    it would probably get close to 100 mpg.

    two seats would be nice, but for 100 mpg i'll only complain a few times a week.

    hybrid turbodiesel 2 or 3 seater would be very cool.

    comments? discuss among yourselves.
    • hybrid turbodiesel 2 or 3 seater would be very cool.

      I'd be happy with a modern (common-rail direct injection) 500 - 750 cc turbodiesel and a 5 speed stick. This would give great fuel economy without requiring the added complexity of a hybrid drivetrain. Diesel is simple and reliable, no need to add on a genset and batteries. How I wish BMW offered a small turbodiesel in the 3-series for the American market......

      I wonder if you could take advantage of the diesel's torque to implement some sort of oversize

  • EV1 (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Hiddekel ( 784329 )
    This [gmev.com] is a much better example of the potential of electric car technology than that fugly little nose-on-wheels.

  • Correction (Score:3, Interesting)

    by nwbvt ( 768631 ) on Thursday June 24, 2004 @12:08AM (#9515028)
    "Myers Motors will begin selling an upgraded version this summer..."

    Doesn't the phrase "begin selling" require someone to actually buy one of these things?

    It could be a decent idea if they sold it for a few hundred bucks, but 14 grand? I could buy a real car for that amount. And don't give me any crap about how these things are better than cars, the fact remains there are numerous uses for cars which these are not suitable for such as transporting passangers, carrying other items (such as groceries, etc), driving on highways, etc.

  • Somebody on campus has one of these things- I see it parked with the motorcycles all the time. Not something I would want to take on a highway, but it would be great in most situations where a moped would suffice.

  • hmm... (Score:2, Interesting)

    by CompSurfer ( 759218 )
    It's a nice car, but isn't practical for most people. (Any room for groceries?) Personally, I like the Honda Civic Hybrid [hondacars.com]. Approx. 50 miles to the gallon, that's about 650 miles in one 13 gallon tank. And it holds several people. Still not the most fuel efficient vehicle, but it's so much better than the gas guzzling SUVs consumer America is obsessed with.
  • It's perfict. RMS will have to give up his SUV (yup, he drives one) to buy this baby.
  • ...is that mike [hightechscience.org] myers?

  • Battery issues (Score:5, Insightful)

    by hey! ( 33014 ) on Thursday June 24, 2004 @12:45AM (#9515209) Homepage Journal
    According to the web site, the battery pack is led acid, weighs just shy of 600lb, and lasts only 1 - 4 years.

    If you are considering this vehicle as an eco-friendly alternative to gasoline cars, this is a huge factor. Lead acid batteries pose enormous environmental challenges, from mining, to worker lead exposure, to disposal. The only way I would even remotely consider a vehicle that could chew through a quarter ton of lead every year would be if the battery packs were recycled. What they should do is lease the battery packs, take the returns and recondition them.

    IIRC, the Honda and Toyota hybrids use NiMH batteries. Nickel is not very toxic, especially compared to lead, and in fact were it not for their sheer size the battery packs could be disposed of in municipal landfills under federal regs. In principle the nickel could and should be recycled, but unfortunately neither Honda or Toyota have made a commitment to do so.

    In my mind this lack of a clear recycling closes the environmental gap between hybrids and small, efficient conventional vehicles such as the Civic and Volkswagen diesels. Many people wouldn't see a dramatic mileage difference between a Toyota Prius and a Toyota Echo; but the gasoline car's proven technology might well translate to a longer service life, an a larger fraction of its components are likely to be recycled as scrap. Estimates are that 95% of the steel in scrapped autos is recovered and recycled.

    In any case, this vehicle would be much cooler with NiMH batteries. The gravimetric energy density of NiMH are betwen 60-120 Wh/kg, as opposed to 30-50 for Pb-acid. So you could pack more than twice the energy in the same weight, and be talking about a 50-100 mile range instead of 20-40 miles. A NiMH battery would cost twice as much, but probably last at least twice as long, so the lifetime costs would be comparable, and the environmental costs would be much smaller.

    • Re:Battery issues (Score:3, Informative)

      by theLOUDroom ( 556455 )
      In any case, this vehicle would be much cooler with NiMH batteries. The gravimetric energy density of NiMH are betwen 60-120 Wh/kg, as opposed to 30-50 for Pb-acid. So you could pack more than twice the energy in the same weight, and be talking about a 50-100 mile range instead of 20-40 miles. A NiMH battery would cost twice as much, but probably last at least twice as long, so the lifetime costs would be comparable, and the environmental costs would be much smaller.

      A well thought out post, but you forgo

    • Re:Battery issues (Score:3, Informative)

      by winwar ( 114053 )
      Actually, lead acid batteries pose only minor environmental challenges. They are recycled almost completely (same tech. as regular car batteries and this waste stream would be insignificant compared to that). At least 80% of the lead in them is recycled as well. Significantly reduces the amount of mining needed.

      If what you say about not recycling the nickel in the NiMH batteries is true, then lead-acid batteries are almost certainly more "environmentally friendly". You do realize they mine nickel don't

  • Aside from electric (Score:2, Interesting)

    by howman ( 170527 )
    Damn if I can see one of these things tipping over. it has a 4' x 8' foot print and a 57" height on 3 wheels... one good corner and whammo your toast. Get nailed by an SUV... Organ doner... Sure it looked really cool with a whale tail in the Austin Powers Gold Member, but you wanna pick up your date in one of these things? Damn, forgot, single seater just like their other unit the Merlin. At least the Merlin looked like it would stand up to a stiff side wind.
    You want balls out excitement, check out T [go-t-rex.com]

  • There is a market for these (Score:3, Insightful)

    by btempleton ( 149110 ) on Thursday June 24, 2004 @12:51AM (#9515250) Homepage
    In dense cities. In particular in cities like San Francisco (assuming it can hill climb) where parking is at a premium. A vehicle this size, like a motorcycle, can park perpendicular on the street, in those tiny little slots between driveways that can't fit any regular car and which are fairly plentiful. Or perhaps in designated motorcycle parking.

    That makes a big difference in quick city trips, which are actually a lot of trips for urban dwellers. They are far under 20 miles, and the biggest hassle is getting through traffic and parking.

    In addition, many people have a single car garage and could fit a small vehicle on the street in those spare short spaces where a full sized vehicle would not make sense.

    Of course a motorcycle can also fit these applications though they don't have a cargo area and don't fit the style of many.

  • An actual sparrow owner speaks! (Score:5, Informative)

    by The Asylum ( 149817 ) on Thursday June 24, 2004 @01:21AM (#9515388)
    We saw the sparrow in CycleWorld in 1998, ordered one immediately, reservation number 38. Got it in March '00, after much design/redesign/rework by Corbin. It is absolutely the coolest vehicle we've ever owned (and we've owned more than a few vehicles.) The fit and finish was excellent, and it really looks better in person than it does in photographs. We do all our own maintenance, and have upgraded quite a few things on our bird. It'll do 100 MPH, has about a 40 mile range (which is rough on the batteries, 20 gives lots more charge cycles), carries 6 Kilowatt-Hours in its 13 batteries (i.e. it'll run your laptop _and_ your cellphone both for about 2 weeks - motive power takes orders of magnitude more juice than bit-flipping, a good freeway ramp acceleration can easily draw 300 amps at 160 volts - that's 48 KW, enough power to run ten average houses).

    We've talked to (literally) over 2000 interested people in the last four years of driving, and have had hundreds of people say they'd buy one "tomorrow" if Corbin were in business, or if it was made by GM, or if it got a little better range. The big problem is battery technology. Lead acid batteries are big and heavy - even the expensive hi-tech spiral-cell units are tempramental and basically hate being discharged. Better batteries exist, like NiMH or Li-Ion, but right now they would add $4000 to the price of the vehicle - once those prices come down, the.Sparrow with a Li-ion pack could have a 200 mile range. As it sits, having a plug at work is probably a good idea.

    Corbin's big problem was they had a design concept, but didn't want to listen to the expertise of the engineers they had. (They employed Jeff James, Peter Senkowski, and Claire Bell at various times - all electric vehicle experts, all ignored and blamed to greater or lesser degrees) Eventually the company collapsed in a mire of pointy-haired-boss syndrome and financial impropriety.)

    I'm pleased to see that Myers is looking to improve on the design, and fix some of the things which Corbin addressed with hand-waving. (Although I must say that early on, Corbin was great about supplying parts, fixing problems, and listening to our comments. Then the money got tight.) I'd also love to see the DOT decide that there was a place on our highways for a smaller vehicle - the reason the Sparrow is a three-wheeler is that it gets around thousands of expensive, heavy, or (for an electric vehicle) downright contradictory "automobile" design requirements by being classed as a "motorcycle". However, this put weight and size restrictions on the vehicle which forced compromises on range and stability. Other countries have the concept of a mini-car, which can go at speeds above 25 MPH but may not be allowed on the highest speed freeways.
    I'm also glad that there's somebody to buy a replacement windshield from - I've been worried that we'll take a stone one day, and I'll have a $14,000 paperweight!

    The ultimate answer, as a motorcyclist, an electrical engineer, and a dedicated geek: With knowing in advance what we'd go through finding insurance, fixing problems, breaking drive belts, changing batteries... I'd do it again in a heartbeat. The Sparrow has been an absolute blast, a total head-turner, the ultimate conversation piece, and it's won a trophy in every car show we've entered it in - even got "People's Choice" in our home-town once!

    ---

    • Fantastic! (Score:3, Interesting)

      by g00bd0g ( 255836 )
      I'm really glad you put your money where your mouth is! I have a friend who has a Sparrow and he also loves it. You make two incredibly insightful points.

      1. Li-Ion/Li-Poly batteries! Exactly! Convert any existing vehicle and get roughly 3 times the range for even less weight. The laptop/cell phone/model airplane industry has been driving the market for years. They are just now starting to entire usage in people carrying vehicles. I firmly believe they will be in wide spread vehicular use in the next 10-20

  • Electric? No, Diesel! (Score:3, Insightful)

    by teknokracy ( 660401 ) <teknokracy AT telus DOT net> on Thursday June 24, 2004 @02:36AM (#9515670)
    I drove one of these once. Zippy and small, but not very practical - one-seater designs have never been successful. Yes, it's economical, but I've also driven the Smart (here in North America), and it's a much better car, even if it does consume gas/diesel.

    • Re:Electric? No, Diesel! (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Paulrothrock ( 685079 ) on Thursday June 24, 2004 @08:48AM (#9516926) Homepage Journal
      But you forget that diesels can run off of vegetable oil or biodiesel, both of which are closed-carbon-cycle fuels. (Meaning they don't pollute because the amount of carbon dioxide is absorbed by the plants that make more fuel.) Ethanol is also a closed-carbon-cycle fuel. We should be looking into these instead of electric cars that require coal-burning power plants to recharge, which introduces trapped carbon (and uranium and mercury and lead and...) into the system, which is why there is too much in the air.

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