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"Buffalo Spammer" Gets 3.5 to 7 Years 671

jfruhlinger writes "Howard Carmak, aka the 'Buffalo spammer,' has been sentenced to jail time for his spamming activities. Interestingly, the conviction was not for spamming per se, but rather stealing someone's identity, which he then used to launch his spam messages."
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"Buffalo Spammer" Gets 3.5 to 7 Years

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  • by KoriaDesevis ( 781774 ) <{koriadesevis} {at} {yahoo.com}> on Thursday May 27, 2004 @02:18PM (#9269305) Journal

    From the article:

    The jail sentence is the maximum allowed under the law, due to Carmack's prior felony conviction for fraud in a federal case involving fake money orders, McCarthy said.

    7 years is the maximum for identity theft? That actually seems a little light. I would think they'd lock him away for 15-20 for something like that. Theft + potentially ruining someone else's credit and/or reputation.

  • by tuxette ( 731067 ) * <tuxette.gmail@com> on Thursday May 27, 2004 @02:19PM (#9269322) Homepage Journal
    He'll surely need a large amount of cigarettes and contraband as dowry for his marriage to Big Bubba.
  • Good... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by hookedup ( 630460 ) on Thursday May 27, 2004 @02:20PM (#9269341)
    The old cop trick, cant get em for what the biggest problem is, get them for what you can.

    Should be this way more often, arrest spammers for using machines they have no proper access to, not for just for spamming.
  • by The I Shing ( 700142 ) * on Thursday May 27, 2004 @02:20PM (#9269353) Journal
    Everybody, sing along, loud enough so that Howard can hear you all the way over in the Erie County Holding Center!

    Nah nah... nah nah nah nah... hey hey hey... good-BYE!

    When I read that Howard Carmack told Earthlink, "Nothing is in my name, so you'll never catch me," all I could think was, you arrogant, silly man. These are government agents and corporate attorneys that you're up against. You're an overweight criminal in his mid-30s who lives in a shack in Buffalo. I think they're gonna catch you, and right quick.

    Sure enough, they did. In addition to his prison time, Carmack has a multi-million-dollar judgment against him from Earthlink for his misuse of their network.

    Have fun in prison, Howard!
  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 27, 2004 @02:22PM (#9269376)
    Though I hate spam as much as the next person, this sounds like it qualifies as cruel and unusual punishment.
  • conviction time (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Kallahar ( 227430 ) <kallahar@quickwired.com> on Thursday May 27, 2004 @02:22PM (#9269385) Homepage
    "The jail sentence is the maximum allowed under the law, due to Carmack's prior felony conviction for fraud in a federal case involving fake money orders, McCarthy said."

    Hopefully this implies that the government is realizing that most spammers are already criminals, email is just a new venue to commit the fraud.
  • by GPLDAN ( 732269 ) on Thursday May 27, 2004 @02:24PM (#9269410)
    Capone went to prison (Alcatraz) on tax evasion. I'd love to see the IRS audit all spammers they can get ahold of. It might drive them offshore, but then we might have a chance at the ISP level to blacklist IP ranges for SMTP traffic.

    SPF is a good idea, I get tired of that checklist that says why your idea won't work. It's pedantic and discourages good ideas from being discussed.

    If SPAM is allowed to thrive offshore, I see a time when service providers like AT&T are asked to track SMTP and provide governments the figures for - you guessed it - tariffs.
  • Good (Score:3, Insightful)

    by TheRealMindChild ( 743925 ) on Thursday May 27, 2004 @02:25PM (#9269441) Homepage Journal
    Burn the jerk.

    But I have mixed feelings on this. If it was 3.5-7 for spamming, I would certainly say that is appropriate, but for identity theft? This is something that RUINS peoples lives. In a lot of cases, the vitims propogate their anguish to loved ones etc... and some even go as far as committing suicide. Actually, it stinks of the same horror as rape... you come out the other side ruined and broken... and 7 years isnt sufficient.

    I personally believe we need to get things back in perspective. If you destroy someones life, whether physically, or otherwise, you should lose yours. You arent fit for our society. BURN.
  • by TheTranceFan ( 444476 ) on Thursday May 27, 2004 @02:25PM (#9269449) Homepage
    Some of the longest jail sentences in US history were the result of convictions for stealing US mail: one year per piece of mail stolen.

    It's a good thing for this guy that sentencing for spam doesn't work like that: he supposedly sent 800 million emails using the two identities he stole.

    Then again, it wasn't a spam law under which he was convicted and sentenced. But put a few spammers away for 800 million years, and it might help in the neverending fight.

    /"You get out of jail about when the Sun has expanded to the size of Mars' orbit."

  • by dirk ( 87083 ) <dirk@one.net> on Thursday May 27, 2004 @02:26PM (#9269450) Homepage
    I am glad this guy was caught and convicted, and I'm glad it wasn't for spamming. It always amazes me how people want new laws targetting spam, but most of what the worst spammers do is already against the law and they can be targetted for that. Advertising fraudulent products is against the law. Pyramid schemes are against the law. Hacking someone's system and sending email from there is illegal. I have no problem with spam that doesn't the law in the sending. If you have a legitmate email account and send email from it, and don't make false claims, then you are using the email system as intended.

    If you want to go after spammers, there are plenty you can go after suing existing laws. We don't need new laws specifically for spam anymore than we need new laws specifically for music sharers. Use the existing laws.
  • Identity theft (Score:2, Insightful)

    by jroop ( 772952 ) on Thursday May 27, 2004 @02:26PM (#9269456)
    It certainly would appear that identity theft is perhaps the best way to prosecute these spammers. If they are not using their own address, then they are stealing the use of someone elses. If they can successfully prosecute a series of these cases, spammers may be forced to use their real addresses. At least the ethical ones... hahahahah.. sorry

    For what its worth, MD just increased the penalties for spammers.

    jr
  • by hpulley ( 587866 ) <hpulley4&yahoo,com> on Thursday May 27, 2004 @02:28PM (#9269497) Homepage

    Often here we see that new technology doesn't necessarily require new laws. Arresting and charging a spammer using someone else's identity to avoid being caught and held responsible is a good way to round these people up. It avoids the free speech issues completely.

  • by thuh Freak ( 725126 ) on Thursday May 27, 2004 @02:42PM (#9269800) Homepage
    "Interestingly, the conviction was not for spamming per se, but rather stealing someone's indentity, which he then used to launch his spam messages."

    cool beans either way, so long as this guy can't continue his evil ways. capone was thrown in jail for taxes, but it kept him from mafia'ing.

  • this is a little (Score:4, Insightful)

    by geekoid ( 135745 ) <dadinportland&yahoo,com> on Thursday May 27, 2004 @02:50PM (#9269935) Homepage Journal
    excessive.
    Yas I read the article. He has a prior felonies, and he stole 2 people's identity.
    from the article, it seems like he used the identites to send spam. Not exactly devastating. If he had used thoose ID's to charge credit cards, buy a car, etc.. then a couple of years in prison would be adequate.

    Considering how full our prisons are, and how tight state budgets are, perhaps there could be better solutions? Community service springs to mind.
    He should also be responsible for undoing harm to the people whose identities he stole. We all know what a pain it is to call the credit card companies, and find out what we need to do to prove it wasn't us and get any marks removed from are credit history.
  • by marika ( 572224 ) on Thursday May 27, 2004 @02:58PM (#9270062)
    Does it mean that if I spam under my real name I am free to do it?
  • by nharmon ( 97591 ) on Thursday May 27, 2004 @03:05PM (#9270143)
    I don't think 7 years is light for an identity theft case. I do think 7 years is light for a repeat offendor though.
  • Yes, it should (Score:4, Insightful)

    by CrystalFalcon ( 233559 ) on Thursday May 27, 2004 @03:07PM (#9270172) Homepage
    Commercial speech should absolutely be as protected as other speech.

    What people tend to do, and Americans in particular, is to confuse "freedom of speech" with "guaranteed right to an audience". Preferably on somebody else's bill.

    And THAT particular bird is not going to fly.

    You have the right to say whatever you want to say (well, almost, nowadays). You do not have the right to force me to listen to any of it. You do not have the right to force somebody else to carry your message.
  • Re:Good (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Profane MuthaFucka ( 574406 ) <busheatskok@gmail.com> on Thursday May 27, 2004 @03:08PM (#9270187) Homepage Journal
    Didn't we just go through this? All this macho GW Bush "Bring it on" wannabe talk isn't going to do anything but get people killed.

    If the death penalty applies to spam, and someone might get caught for spamming, then they may as well just go kill someone while they are at it. Maybe kill the witnesses. It can't increase the severity of the penalty, so why not?

    Part of justice is appropriate punishments. Walking with a swagger and carrying a noose might impress people who failed to graduate high school, but it doesn't make us any safer, or freer.

  • Re:Yes, it should (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 27, 2004 @03:12PM (#9270260)
    No, it shouldn't. Commercial speech should not be protected in the same way that individual expression is. What if Coca-Cola put out commercials that said "Coke makes your wang bigger, and lowers your taxes!" Some people might believe that. When you bring the false advertising suit against them, it's good to know that they can't use "free speech" to protect those practices.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 27, 2004 @03:17PM (#9270317)
    I am stunned that a Slashdotter is taking credit for something with which he had nothing to do.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 27, 2004 @03:21PM (#9270359)
    Serious question: why do Americans think prison rape is amusing? Whenever there's a story about someone or other going to prison there's always a comment to be found making light of this; and it's always modded up.

    Are you people seriously telling me, that a suitable punishment for spamming is being fucked up the arse?
  • by Sycraft-fu ( 314770 ) on Thursday May 27, 2004 @03:24PM (#9270389)
    They just need to be there. SPAM is so popular because, until now, it was a more or less no risk bussiness both finincally and legally. It cost very little to get in to and you weren't going to get in trouble for what you were doing. To lessen the amout of spammers, we just need to make it unattractive. Doesn't mean we need to lock them up for life (appealing though that may sound), just a reasonable prison sentence combine with seizing all their ill gotten gains.

    Most spammers will then quit. These aren't hardened, fear nothing, criminals we are talking about, they are sleazy bussiness men that see this as an easy, low risk way to make a buck. Show them it's not low risk, most of them will knock it off.

    There will still be some, of course, there is always somebody stupid enough to try something, but I think it can be kept to a minimum, in the US at least (which is where the majority of it starts anyhow).
  • Re:Good... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by greendoggg ( 667256 ) on Thursday May 27, 2004 @03:29PM (#9270452)
    Actually, I'm of the opinion that identity theft is a more important issue than spam. Don't get me wrong, I think spam is a big issue, but spam (usually) doesn't mess up a person's life completely, whereas identity theft can really leave someone in a world of hurt. But either way, since this guy was guilty of both, I'm glad to see he got some jail time.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 27, 2004 @03:35PM (#9270527)
    Serious question: why do Americans think prison rape is amusing?

    Another serious question: Why do you assume its just Americans who are making a joke of this? People get raped in prison all over the world.
  • Re:Yes, it should (Score:3, Insightful)

    by IANAAC ( 692242 ) on Thursday May 27, 2004 @03:36PM (#9270543)
    Commercial speech should absolutely be as protected as other speech.
    When the first amendment was written, I really doubt that they had corporations in mind. The first amendment is all about INDIVIDUAL free speech.

    I don t believe corporations have the right to say whatever they feel like saying. They are, after all, a group of people who may or may not be working together for a common cause (a day in any large corporation would reveal that the latter is probably more common).

  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 27, 2004 @03:39PM (#9270562)
    You have a point. We should kill repeat offenders instead.

    We Yanks need more forward thinkers like you!
  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 27, 2004 @03:39PM (#9270568)
    >Theft + potentially ruining someone else's credit and/or reputation.

    Why does this suprise you. Victims have no rights; why should the criminal courts care what happens to them?

    l8,
    AC
  • I don't agree. Following my policy of having the punishment fit the crime, the ends were financial. The heaviness of the punishment imposed on Carmack should have been the fines, not years of his life.

    Don't get me wrong; the man's a scumsac and a general nutcocker. But even so, he's a person with irreplaceable years of life, who can reform as we should hope anyone can. Financial judgments against him could have chased him for decades, which seems sufficient punishment.

    Italy is seeking to jail MP3 traders, and we are jailing a con artist. Both crimes are relatively innocuous compared to years of jailing. I can only urge others to keep a sense of perspective about such things.
  • by Chordonblue ( 585047 ) on Thursday May 27, 2004 @03:43PM (#9270626) Journal
    ...the actual manufacturers of bogus penis enlargement pills, quasi-legal drug sales of Viagra, and other such snake oil companies. The actual spamming agencies are half the problem - the other half are the scumbags who hire them and turn a blind eye to their practices.

  • Re:Yes, it should (Score:5, Insightful)

    by sfjoe ( 470510 ) on Thursday May 27, 2004 @03:53PM (#9270743)
    Commercial speech should absolutely be as protected as other speech.

    Absolutely not!! A corporation exists solely to generate a profit. It has no morals, no ethics and cannot be deprived of its life or liberty for its crimes. Freedom of speech is a human condition intended for humans. When humans can hide behind a corporation, they can not be held accountalbe for their actions or speech. For example, Dow Chemical murdered 800 people in Bhopal India. Was it forced to cease existing? Of course not. Any entity which has no compulsion to behave with human responsibilities has no expectation of human rights.
    It has long been accepted that not ALL speech is free. You cannot shout "fire" in a crowded theatre and you cannot expect unbridled rights to make commercial claims.

  • by Kombat ( 93720 ) <kevin@swanweddingphotography.com> on Thursday May 27, 2004 @04:04PM (#9270853)
    The real answer is to deny the criminal any credit for the rest of his life.

    This is extremely ignorant. The guy is an identity theif. How in the hell is denying him credit going to encourage him to stop using fraudulent identification?

    "You won't give me a credit card? Fine. I have tons of experience acquiring them from people who already have them."

    Great solution.
  • by William G. Davis ( 686044 ) on Thursday May 27, 2004 @04:07PM (#9270877) Homepage
    Violent prison rape is *funny*?
  • by geoffspear ( 692508 ) * on Thursday May 27, 2004 @04:13PM (#9270933) Homepage
    Bah. I'm very much opposed to lengthy jail sentences for nonviolent victimless crimes, but when it comes to fraud and identity theft in the service of a money-making scheme, I think jail time is an appropriate deterrent. If you just fine people for stuff like this, they'll keep doing it as long as the amount of the fine and their perceived likelihood of getting caught are offset by the profits they're making, just as many corporations see government fines for their illegal actions as part of the cost of doing business. If anything, jail time is much more of a deterrent for the types of crimes perpetrated by weasily fraudulent types than it is for tough violent offenders.
  • by Dimensio ( 311070 ) <darkstar&iglou,com> on Thursday May 27, 2004 @04:15PM (#9270956)
    Are you people seriously telling me, that a suitable punishment for spamming is being fucked up the arse?

    No. Not unless it's with a red-hot steel rod lined with sharp barbs.
  • by Dominic_Mazzoni ( 125164 ) * on Thursday May 27, 2004 @04:44PM (#9271268) Homepage
    Serious question: why do Americans think prison rape is amusing?

    I'm with you. I don't think it's funny and I don't think anyone deserves that.

    Even if you do think that some criminals deserve it, what about the tens of thousands of innocent people who were wrongly convicted and ended up in prison?
  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 27, 2004 @04:57PM (#9271427)
    Let's not forget...he was a spammer too...

    I say he oughta get the chair, or lethal injection for that one alone.

    :-P

  • by UnrepentantHarlequin ( 766870 ) on Thursday May 27, 2004 @05:05PM (#9271506)
    When women who have done nothing wrong can live their lives without fear of being raped, then we can turn our attention to safeguarding criminals from other criminals. If we don't have enough resources to protect innocent people, then where are we going to find the resources to protect criminals?
  • Aggregate costs (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Camel Pilot ( 78781 ) on Thursday May 27, 2004 @05:42PM (#9271814) Homepage Journal
    he's a person with irreplaceable years of life

    It is nice to meet a compassionate individual here on slashdot but keep in mind how many aggregate "irreplaceable years of life" this scumbag cost others in filling up people's inbox with junk or having to spend time setting up filters, etc. !
  • by autopr0n ( 534291 ) on Thursday May 27, 2004 @06:13PM (#9272055) Homepage Journal
    Victimless crime.. explain to me how something can be a victimless crime, or, if some action really is victimless, why it's a crime.

    Let's say two gay men have anal sex. Where's the victim? Yet, untill recently, that was illegal in Texas. Many states have had anti-masterbation laws in the past as well. Where's the victim there?

    People just like screwing up other people's lives for the hell of it.
  • by berzerke ( 319205 ) on Thursday May 27, 2004 @06:47PM (#9272332) Homepage

    ...Are you people seriously telling me, that a suitable punishment for spamming is being fucked up the arse?

    A lot of that talk is frustration. Our constitution forbids cruel and unusual punishment. Unfortunately, many judges have interpreted that as forbiding any real punishment. Why else do so many keep going back to jail again and again?

    China has a much lower prison population than the US, both in total number and in prisoners per 100,000 people (China: 119/100K, US: 701/100K; figures from http://www.kcl.ac.uk/depsta/rel/icps/worldbrief/wo rld_brief.html [kcl.ac.uk]). The China numbers include the so-called "political prisoners", so the number of true criminals is probably much lower.

    While there are numerous reasons, one of them is life in a Chinese prison is bad. China has few repeat offenders (ok, partially because repeat offenders tend to get executed). While in the US, working is optional, yet you still get decent food, clothing, medical, and shelter. Convicted murderers have a better health care plan that I do! Many US criminals spend their time learning from others how to be better criminals.

    If it wasn't for abuse by other prisoners, a lot more people (in the US) wouldn't care if they went to jail. It's the only real punishment some criminals get. Getting seriously abused is a powerful message not to screw up again.

    My mother used to teach at an inner city school where her students getting sent to juv hall was a regular occurance. They would tell her that they didn't mind because it was better than their home life. When a 12 year old (repeat offender) pulls up to cop in a stolen car and asks him if he wants to drag race, it should tell you how much they care about being caught.

    The talk you are referring to is just people wanting some punishment that make the offender (and others) not be a repeat offender. If it takes making the spammer someone's girlfriend to get the message across, then so be it.

  • by leonbrooks ( 8043 ) <SentByMSBlast-No ... .brooks.fdns.net> on Thursday May 27, 2004 @08:59PM (#9273374) Homepage
    ...to lock him up for 8020 days, tripled for punitive damages, which makes...

    ...
    about 66 years...
  • by berzerke ( 319205 ) on Thursday May 27, 2004 @09:16PM (#9273462) Homepage

    ...prison isn't enough a deterrant to keep people from comitting crimes, therefore crimes that occur within the prison against individuals are permittable in lieu of government sactioned punishment. (Correct me if I'm wrong but that seems to be what you're saying)...

    No, that's not what I'm saying. A crime is still a crime, even if occurs within a prison. However, if that's the best justice a victim can hope for, many will take it happily. Hence the posts. In a perfect world, this wouldn't be needed, but then in a perfect world, prisons wouldn't be needed either.

    ...those acts which are deemed to be unacceptable should be unacceptable across the board...

    Not necessarily. It all depends on the circumstances. I could give lots of examples, but I won't. Instead, think about the various *criminal* classifications for killing someone. There's first degree murder (aka capital murder in some states), second degree murder, and manslaughter (some states have variations on this). It all depends on the circumstances.

    ...I include capital punishment as an unacceptable government sanction activity..

    Many would disagree with you, including myself. Sometimes one must be sacrificed for the good of the group. Sucks if you are the one, but in this case, these people had a choice. They chose murder(s). They had more rights than they gave their victim(s).

    ...I see this as an argument to make society better...

    No argument here.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 28, 2004 @05:47AM (#9275559)
    Drugs need not leed to make oneself in to a "partical lunatic, a menace to others , etc ...". They could, but they don't have to.

    Consentual sodomy could spread disease, but the risks of transmission are lower when proper precautions are used. Precautions are much more likely to be used when there is no need hide the activity bacause it's illegal.

    For a crime to be victimless, it's really only something that someone (including yourself) consents to. It must also not endanger or inconveniece someone else. ID theft might be better said is that the victim did not suffer direct physical harm. For example physical assult. As a consequence of the crime, the victim could have lost the resources to get medical treatment (for example), however this would be indirect.

    If you're going to regulate self-abuse, then 4/5th of Slashdot would have no love life at all.

    Off-topic: Prohibition on any activity should only be a last resort outside of theft, assult or murder (broadest definitions here). If it is more-or-less 'victimless', then regulate if you have to, otherwise, leave it alone.

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