Cuil Proves the Bubble Is Back

MattSparkes writes "Cuil may only have launched this week, but it seems that they're already enjoying late-'90s boom-style comforts. 'Lunch is ordered in every single day. Huge fridges burst with snacks and drinks. Bowls of strawberries and muffins lie around the rest area. The company pays for a personal trainer and gym membership for everyone. A doctor calls round each Friday, after the weekly barbeque, to see if everyone's in good health. Employees drift in an out at times that suit themselves.' Seems like an awesome place to work, but how long will their $25 million VC funding last at this rate?"

Cuil Proves Nothing

Cuil Proves the Bubble Is Back

First of all, a single anecdote does not prove anything. If you included eBay's Skype deal or Google's YouTube deal ... wait, scratch that last one. See, there's constantly non-prudent business deals and every now and then you see a real whopper.

Lunch is ordered in every single day. Huge fridges burst with snacks and drinks. Bowls of strawberries and muffins lie around the rest area. The company pays for a personal trainer and gym membership for everyone. A doctor calls round each Friday, after the weekly barbecue, to see if everyone's in good health. Employees drift in an out at times that suit themselves.

Do you think that this is what caused the dot com bubble? Do you think the vast majority of people were living like this when it burst? I'm no economist but I thought that the problem wasn't with how the IT and Web Site companies were spending their money but rather what the customers they found were giving them money for--basically nothing. A few HTML pages? Not even worth my time to read?

$25 million in venture capital is nothing these days. Let them burn it. Yeah, we'll all be laughing a couple months from now when they're busting their asses to find some income--or maybe they are correct in thinking they are the next Google. Hell, Slashdot ran a story [slashdot.org] reporting them to index more than Google. With the kind of press they achieved, maybe they're right to live like royalty for a bit?

Does anyone look back on Google and say "They hired a massage artist? Proof the bubble is back!" No, because they thought they were going to be big and they were.

You want to prevent another bubble? Don't take a job where you're not sure how you or any of your coworkers draw revenue from real customers who in turn receive some service or product that makes complete sense. That's how you prevent a bubble. And unless you're part of the 1% calling the shots on how to spend money, you needn't worry about how other companies spend their money. This frivolous spending should just make it easier for Google to beat their bottom line and steal customers back. And if they can't, well then let Cuil rake large piles of capital together and set them afire to their heart's content.

Re:Cuil Proves Nothing

I think that the bigger proof is that their product sucks ass. Go try and use it. I looked for "aes zip linux" and got 0 results. 0 results? Really? You index *more* than google and you can't find ONE reference to "aes zip linux"? I tried to use that thing, but it doesn't seem to enjoy providing me with any results. To me *that* is proof that they are a bubble company. Where's the beef?

Re:Cuil Proves Nothing

I dont know what your problem is; CUIL returns 78,662,145 results for "beef". They don't seem to have trouble finding it. :)

Re:Cuil Proves Nothing

I put up a page to help compare the results:

http://www.cornetdesign.com/googlevscuil.html [cornetdesign.com]

Did the same thing for Live:

http://www.cornetdesign.com/livevscuil.html [cornetdesign.com]

Re:Cuil Proves Nothing

Try comparing like with like:

http://www.google.com/search?q=aes+zip+linux [google.com]
http://www.cuil.com/search?q=aes+zip+linux [cuil.com]

Re:Cuil Proves Nothing

yeah, the difference being that if you search without the quotes, google returns a shedload of results. Cuil still returns nothing:

cuil search [cuil.com]

google search [google.co.uk]

Re:Cuil Proves Nothing

Well I am an economist actually and while I don't think that anybody is saying that this sort of spending caused the bubble, they are symptomatic of the sort of investing that happens in a bubble. Of course, with the economy going the way it is, all this is pretty much moot since there is clearly not a lot of speculative investment going on.

Re:The bubble is back!

But if we are smart, we can still make money. I recommend selling short on Google now.

I recommend not taking stock tips from /.

Unless of course enough of us get together and actually move the market in the direction we want.
But I suspect /.ers don't have that kinda cash on hand.

Re:The bubble is back!

But I suspect /.ers don't have that kinda cash on hand.

But they could easily get some. Not legally, but round off a few fractions of a penny to a bank account and if you get caught, the worst they would ever do is they would put you for a couple of months into a white-collar, minimum-security resort! Shit, we should be so lucky! Do you know, they have conjugal visits there?

Re:The bubble is back!

I have a bad feeling that all of this is going to bring us to a conversation that involves the phrase "pound-me-in-the-ass prison"

I'm not sure this is as good as it sounds

I know that many people will say that perks like these are only positives because they can only make people happier about their job, which is good for the employee and good for the employer as well.

I would like to suggest that it's not all roses in reality. I have worked at places where the employer provided lots of cushy perks and I found that it tends to attract a certain type of employee: the type who wants the job not because they like the work, but because they like the perks. In my experience this type of employee is not the best for the company; and what's worse, the general working environment tends to become antiproductive even for employees who otherwise would be more productive.

I have found that in Silicon Valley companies, there is almost a sense of pride taken in how unstructured the working environment is. The "cool, hip" companies are the ones that encourage their employees to engage in nerf gun fights, have parties every Friday, and generally play around on company time. Sometimes it is hard for me to believe that these companies can be globally competitive, but maybe companies all over the world are all doing the same things.

I personally believe that there is a fine balance between too much carrot, and too much stick, but that the answer certainly does not come from throwing the stick out completely. I am most motivated when there are expectations of me, and I have worked at companies where expectations are disturbingly low. I honestly believe that most people, even if they won't admit it, need a bit of structure in their working environment to be most productive.

There is definitely a desire for people to believe that the best working environment is the one where the employer puts the least demands on its employees and gives all of the best perks possible, and that such an environment would make everyone more productive if only employers weren't so pig-headed and could just realize that ... but I think this is really wishful thinking. It actually worries me that software companies in the USA are often like this because somewhere there must be companies that Just Get Shit Done (India maybe?) without all of the frivolities and eventually, they're going to dominate. And I want the software industry in the USA to stay healthy because that's how I earn my living.

By the way, I think that it would be hard to out-cushy Google. Their campus is like Club Med and I have a hard time believing that they get anything close to maximum productivity out of their workforce because of it.

Posting AC because obviously I don't want my current or past employers or coworkers to somehow get word of this and get pissed off at me.

Re:I'm not sure this is as good as it sounds

I think there is a balance that is needed. A boring, rigid office will stifle interest and energy, but if it's too silly an office then it's hard to concentrate when the time is right.

Granted, I've never seen companies pay for daily muffins and stuff (i wonder how many aren't eaten?), but letting your employees have flex time usually lowers stress levels, especially for those with kids.

Carrot and Stick

The only carrot I have ever seen is a paycheck, everything else is a stick.

Re:I'm not sure this is as good as it sounds

Nothing wrong with a decent environment. Keep in mind that particularly in tech companies getting the best can make a big difference. A great coder can get more done than 10 mediocre ones but only cost 2 or 3 times as much to pay. The best and brightest who are already earning enough that money isn't a big problem in their lives are also more likely to want to work somewhere where they're happy rather than going for that extra 5K per year. Sure you could just up the pay but if the cost of the perks/parties is less than what you'd have to pay those same people to keep them in a horrible workplace then you're better off going with the snacks and cola. that being said, people who are not decent workers should be dropped like a rock if they're simply not getting the work done.

How Long?

" how long will their $25 million VC funding last at this rate?"

Based on my late 90's Start up runs in NYC, I would say the Doctor and Free Gym Personal Trainer will be gone in two weeks, the food in a month, and 75% of the employees in 3 months.

Stories like this may even bring PuD back to F**kedcompany postings.

If the bubble's back, it will burst soon

From my experience with using Cuil for a few days, it is utterly and completely useless in its present form. Yes it's nice visually, but it's a search engine got heaven's sake - visually pleasant is nothing if the searches don't return anything useful.

Re:If the bubble's back, it will burst soon

Cuil is pretty much living on the lie that it has over 120 billion index pages, which as it turns out [slashdot.org] after using it a bit seems indeed like complete and utter bullcrap. Without this claim (that their index is 3 times bigger than Google's, yeah right..) they're just another trier with a design some people argue is nice.

How many employees do they have?

It sounds expensive, but if there's 10 employees, that VC funding could last years.

Google set a precedent for perks, so it's only natural that companies are going to try to repeat that success for recruiting purposes alone.

Is this unusual?

There are a ton of companies out there that offer free snackies, gyms, on-site doctors, etc. For the most part they are prudent financial decisions. free snacks: the cost is VERY minimal compared to the good will generated and assuming it's stocked internally, you don't have to allow an outside vendor in to stock machines improving your security. gyms: healthy employees cost less to insure. healthy employees miss less work. healthy employees are more attractive and will lead to improved workplace chemistry. healthy employees impress customers. on-site doc: employees only need to take 30m off work to see the doc instead of having to get in a car, drive to their doc, wait, wait, wait, see doc, drive back to work which is 2 hrs minimum. so, while a lot of these really seem excessive, they aren't.

Re:Is this unusual?

Not unusual, no. Mine you, I've only been working in this company 10 years...

Lunch is ordered in every single day.

We have a subsidised restaurant and sandwich bar. The coffee bars take the piss out of Starbucks.

Huge fridges burst with snacks and drinks.

Free coffee and soft drinks from machines in each corner of each floor in each building.

Bowls of strawberries and muffins lie around the rest area.

Um, stale sandwiches and fruit left over from long meetings..?

The company pays for a personal trainer and gym membership for everyone.

Fully stocked gym, several trainers, but only one working at a time, one physiotherapist. Open 24/7. Treatment room looks well equipped although I've never needed to used it.

A doctor calls round each Friday, after the weekly barbeque, to see if everyone's in good health.

Doctor is in his office 5 times a week. Two nurses are always there.

Employees drift in an out at times that suit themselves.

90% of us are on personal contracts. I'm supposed to do 37 hours a week, I'll only do 35 this week though as I want to go home early on Friday. Do my work and everyone's happy. We refuse to talk about people being 30 minutes late in the mornings - it's not productive. If anything, we'll complain when others are coming in at 8am and not going home until 8pm. People working long hours is not productive, it creates a bad atmosphere, if there's work for two people, employ a second person.

This is a massive company in the UK. My site alone employs 2,000 people.

I figured out their business plan:

Be on the front page of /. every week, boosting their add impressions.

Whatever.

Cuil Sucks. Seriously, it sucks real hard.

I liked their privacy policy and thought their approach to searh results was unique and fresh, it just needed a bit of getting used to.

So, I have tried using it in place of Google since it was announced.

I gave up today in shear frustration.

Take me home Google! I missed you so!

Cuil? No. True Knowledge? Yes!

Not sure if there is bubble but one thing I did learn about during the Cuil-crash-and-burn-at-launch fiasco was a new search technology out of Cambridge that is in beta right now. It is named true knowledge, and uses natural language strings for search, and wiki style user submitted knowledge base in conjunction with a standard search engine [trueknowledge.com]. It is pretty neat and promising search technology that I found searching after looking that the shorcomings of Cuil. I highly recommend getting a beta account at true knowledge if you are interested in improving search results in a fine grained approach.

The Bubble HAS Burst.

...for financial institutions. I work at a Financial Firm in NYC, and we don't even have coffee makers in the kitchen! And they took away the vending machine. Bottled water has gone up from $12 for 2 cases to $16. I've been reduced to filling up my bottles at the sink, and shorting Google. If you're a Shadenfreude, you've enjoyed this post.

Not for long

Regardless of the cost of any perks they may enjoy there, a search engine company needs to have a search engine to live. To me, cuil appears to be a quick hack without the huge index it claims, and without a decent ranking algorithm.

As an example, I did a search for my home town (a really tiny place, 1000 people or so). The top 10 google results included the towns unofficial homepage, a googlemap centered on the town, the wikipedia article for the town, a couple of weather sites with forecasts for the town and so on. All relevant, none repeated.

The first page of cuil displayed *seven* "find hotels in $town" (believe me, there are no hotels) or "find single women in $town" (same story there...). A lot of these spam sites were even repeated five or six times among the first results. A japaneese version of a result was listed higher than the english version of the same result, and so on.