Leopard Upgraders Getting "Blue Screen of Death"

Z80xxc! writes "Some Mac users upgrading to Apple's new Leopard operating system are encountering long delays on reboot — an experience they liken to the Windows 'Blue Screen of Death.' While some of those upgrading were able to access their computer after waiting for as long as several hours, others were forced to do a complete reinstall. Some suspect that a framework called 'Application Enhancer' by Unsanity LLC may be causing the problem, but there has been no official word from Apple at this point."

Archive and install

Archive and install!

It's the safest way to upgrade. Yes, it's less convenient, but way better than finding out that some 3rd party tweak is not compatible the hard way...

Re:Archive and install

There are three options on any Mac OS install

  - Plain old upgrade. Just lays down the new OS on top of the old one

  - Archive and install. Takes a backup of your current stuff, lays down a clean OS, and recovers your stuff from the backup it made

  - Erase and install. Erases the disk/partition, and installs the OS.

(2) or (3) are the best option. I use (3) because my home directory is on a different disk to my boot disk, and I did that on purpose so I could do nice clean installs. (2) works well too though.

Re:Archive and install

I use (3) because my home directory is on a different disk to my boot disk, and I did that on purpose so I could do nice clean installs. (2) works well too though.

But don't you have to then reinstall all of your apps? That's like Win98 logic.

Why would he - this is a Mac, not Windows.

Re:Archive and install

I've never found an app that I couldn't easily scoop up and move to a new machine.

1) Grab application or directory off /Applications and drag to other computer
2) Grab plists from ~/Library/Preferences
3) Copy any related resources from /Library/Application Support and ~/Library/Application Support
4) Check in /Library/StartupItems and ~/Library/StartupItems for any related startup items

About 90% of applications are fully migrated after step 1)

This doesn't cover drivers or other wierdness like PreferencePanes, but those are usually stand alone files that can be copied over.

Re:Archive and install

On Windows it can get somewhat more complicated, because

1) the registry entries may be spread over various sections of the registry. Offhand, I can recall
-HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE
-HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software
-HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT (have fun searching through that)

2) fishing out the DLLS may require an extra tool like Dependency Walker (URL:http://www.dependencywalker.com/). Easy enough if you know such a tool, but it may be somewhat beyond a newbie.

Re:Archive and install

Ummm... no. Please don't flame until you know what the heck you are talking about.

When you drag an application from a disk image to anywhere on the system, Apple's launch services register the application, based on the configuration within the application bundle. It has nothing to do with the /Applications folder - you can drag to your desktop if you want, and it will work the same way.

Re:Archive and install

But you're wrong.

On Windows, most file type associations are done by installers. Occasionally the app itself does them when it's launched (many people object to that unless it's optional though). Either way, they are stored in the registry as a path to the EXE. If you move it, the link breaks. If you copy the app to a new system, the link doesn't exist.

On a Mac, as soon as the system sees the app (regardless of where it is), you can open file types that belong to it with a double click. It's been like that for decades, so yes, in this regard, it is easier on a Mac.

As for the other support files, it's a little more complicated. On Windows, you have DLLs that are sometimes in the app's folder, but are often in the /windows/system32 folder mixed in with hundreds of others with short useless names (or worse yet, in other places). Sometimes, there are things in folders in /Program Files/Common Files (or worse yet, in a "common" folder elsewhere). In many cases, the DLLs have to be registered (again, often done by the installer).

On a Mac, they may be in a few places too, but usually they are pretty obvious. They are often found in appropriately named folders either the Application Support or Preferences folders in either /Library or ~/Library (or at worst /System/Library). If they are things that hook into the system somehow (codecs, fonts, screensavers, etc.) they will be in those folders instead, but that makes sense too, and they truly can be installed for just one user or everyone depending on which Library folder they go in (as opposed to the Windows "install for just me" which only changes who sees the start menu icon). In any case, there is no "registering" of any kind, so as long as you put these things in the right places, OS X will see them. Again, it's been like this for decades (fonts go in the Fonts folder, extensions in the Extensions folder, etc... and they don't need to be registered in any way like on Windows)

So, again, it's a little easier.

On a Mac, you could even rename the /Applications folder to whatever you want, and almost everything would still work*, but try that with /Program Files on Windows. You would lose the ability to double click files to open them, lose custom icons for different file types, start menu shortcuts would break, uninstallers wouldn't work, etc.

Personally, I don't think OS X outshines Windows in most cases, but these are the kinds of things it does do very well.

*Everything except Apple's own Software Updates, although most people would consider this a bug. Apps and file type associations would still work though.

Re:Archive and install

" Wow, what a terrible idea. It's like WinXP logic for font installing- Explorer is consistent _except_ for the font folder which calls the font register-er when you drop files into it. Finder is consistent _except_ for the applications folder which installs system services and processes scripts every time you drop a dmg into it. Hm. "

If you're going to criticize something it helps if you have the slightest clue what you're talking about. Try actually using a Mac sometime, you might be pleasantly surprised.

There's nothing special about the /Applications directory, no special installation magic goes on when you drag an application from one disk to another. The application itself is basically a special kind of folder which contains all of the resources and even extra libraries required for it to function, this avoids the need to use an installer at all in most cases because most of the resources reqired for the application are in the application.

By contrast, Windows applications have a tendency to sprawl over the hard drive, copying things into shared system-wide resource directories because that is how a library is registered in the windows world. The windows start menu is used to cut through what would otherwise be a very cluttered place, the "\Program Files" directory.

On the Mac the equivalent, "/Applications" contains the actual application in it's entirety. Again; in contrast linking applications into the Start Menu is one of the many functions of an installer in Windows. Without installers you wouldn't have any idea where the application went and would have to navigate the troubled waters of "\Program Files" alone.

The other magic usually handled by installers in Windows happens when you first load an application, at which point it exchanges information with the OS, the OS from that point on knows where on the disk the application is so that even if you move it around the filesystem hierarchy it will still be able to find it, it also exchanges information about what mimetypes the app would like to be associated with so that it can show up in the "open with..." list for certain file types and declare itself able to handle any types of files it might create.

If you need to register system services, then you need an application installer or a monkey willing to do it by hand (a user, for example). In that case mac applications install like Windows ones, by using an installer package.

Re:Archive and install

Also I don't think windows has any easy way to backup/restore the users settings.

Windows has three ways. One for IT folks [microsoft.com], one for end-users [microsoft.com], and one you can use if the target machine is Vista [microsoft.com].

Re:Archive and install

Oddly, when I tried to upgrade today, I got no option for that. My only option was to reformat and and install. I'd already backed everything up, but I didn't want to deal with a new install if I didn't have to -- I decided to just do a test install on an old firewire ipod.

Anyway, I'm a bit non-plussed with Leopard. The "stacks" thing is really lame. Used to be you could put a folder in the same spot and get a menu -- nice way to navigate through applications, particularly for those who don't like a giant slab of apps but prefer to have them organized by type, e.g., networking, graphics, games, etc. The stacks are only one level deep -- if you click on a folder, it just opens in Finder. This is very non-ideal.

The real deal killer is X11 though -- totally borked. If you launch it from the applications/utilities folder, it doesn't even launch. You have launch it from it's actual location under /usr -- and even then it makes two icons in the dock and if you have the right hardware (like my 1st gen macbook), the cursor turns yellow inside apps which essentially makes it invisible against a white background. There was a fix for this for Tiger so I tried it out. After that, X11 wouldn't even launch a terminal. Way lame.

Re:Archive and install

Nonono, X11 has been massively enhanced! It's beautiful. Now, when you run a program from Terminal.app that needs X11, it launches automatically! It's beautiful! Almost my favourite Leopard feature so far.

iqu :)

Re:Archive and install

On macs apps are self contained entities (normally) thus archiving means moving all the apps out of the application folder and into another folder. You can then at your leisure drag them back one by one.
It also moves all your preference settings and fonts to another folder, and cleans out the startup items list. (fonts and preferences are the only two things that normally leak beyond the app container (there's a few other exceptions for special apps, but as a rule installing an app does not barf all over your computer with DLLs and Registry hooks. On macs, the OS polls the App in Applications folder for its capabilities and files it likes to open, so the app does not need to modify a registry. as a result unistalls are normally as simple as dragging the app out of the application folder.

So after an archive and install you drag back the things you want to keep. The only hassle is sometimes you need to look for the associated preference setting which is where most apps store their activation key.

A few non apple apps behave linux like and shove things into /usr/local/bin or libs or /share/man. So restoring those takes a bit more work. But on the otherhand those are exactly the kind of Cruft you want to blow out between major system updates. So archive and install is the way to go in previous updates

Rumor was that apple worked hard to make the non-archive and install mode (update) smart enough to remove all the bad crap and leave the okay crap. Apparently not!

But if it is APE then well then that's kinda understandable its the singlemost invasive kernel mod of all.

Re:APE is *not* a kernel mod.

my bad. APE acts like a kernel mod which is why I think of it as one. It lets you do things you "shouldn't" be able to do without a kernel mod by playing some funky games.

That is where its safety comes from. It is user mode, uses Input Manager functionality to do things which normally would require kernel mods or plain old binary hacking.

Apple removed the functionality which makes APE work by the reason of one anonymous idiot coding a horribly coded Trojan horse abusing Input Managers.

I don't know if US law supports it but Unsanity should sue Macfixit or a similar FUD spreading company for $1. Let them prove APE does anything bad to OS scientifically or pay the $1.

As I am preparing for Leopard on this system, I uninstalled APE (Unsanity recommends not doing it) and see how "evil" "performance killing", "system crashing" thing APE was. No, the idiotically coded Applications still crash with trivial reasons, System still boots in exact time which it booted before and I am staring at Mr. Jobs favorite widget graphics knowing the fact that I will stare at them for a long time until Unsanity codes shapeshifter for leopard.

My FreeBSD/Debian/Slackware using nerd friends and system admins happily changes how their desktop looks but on a $190 (family license) OS, I am not allowed. I can't even change mouse pointer which I did back on Windows 95 and even X11 on AIX allows!

Apple invited thousands or hundreds of thousands of people who aren't happy with their desktop look to binary hack their OS resource files. That is what they did instead of removing InputManagers from home directory or secure them.

Re:Archive and install

There have been plenty of issues with archive and install as well. Just backup your home directory to that lovely new HD you got for time machine, and then unplug it and Erase and Install Leopard. I had no issues.

Then restore the data from the backup drive, erase the backup drive and then you can turn on time machine.

See, those years of doing Windows upgrades finally paid off for something :P

Or, if you actually get the blue screen:

1. Reboot into single-user mode (hold Cmd-S while booting machine)
2. Follow the directions OSX gives you when you get to the prompt (I think these were them - just type the two commands it tells you to):
fsck -fy /
3. Remove the following files:
rm -rf /Library/Preference Panes/Application Enhancer.prefpane
rm -rf /Library/Frameworks/Application Enhancer.framework
rm -rf /System/Library/SystemConfiguration/Application Enhancer.bundle
rm -rf /Library/Preferences/com.unsanity.ape.plist
4. Exit, to continue booting normally
exit

Via: http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=1195031&tstart=0 [apple.com]

Re:Archive and install

Oh, yeah, you expect Aunt Tillie to be able to do that? All these command-line fixes just show how Mac OS X is not yet ready for the desktop, and how Linux is superior because "it just works." ;)

(Laugh. It's funny.)

 

Re:Archive and install

Safer to do the following given the spaces in the paths (or escape the spaces in the path using \)...

3. Remove the following files:
rm -rf "/Library/Preference Panes/Application Enhancer.prefpane"
rm -rf "/Library/Frameworks/Application Enhancer.framework"
rm -rf "/System/Library/SystemConfiguration/Application Enhancer.bundle"
rm -rf "/Library/Preferences/com.unsanity.ape.plist"

Re:Archive and install

Like most problems of society, drug use is not likely the cause of the above errant moderation.

I get mod points quite often and I've fucked up applying them a few times. Each time it was related to the fact that the current UI for moderating is drop down menu (which is just fine) that applies whatever moderation is selected immediately upon being clicked (no fine). This would be halfway fine if there were some means to un-mod a post, or at least re-mod it, but there is not.If my mouse pointer is off slightly when I click an item in the list I'll have applied the wrong moderation and can do nothing about it.

This is obviously dumb. I don't want to be bothered like I'm using Windows, but some things involving user selections on a computer need either a confirmation step that is distinct from the selection or have a Back button.

Re:Funny

If you had Linux apps that worked the way APE does, it would bring down the entire system, too. The only reason you don't is that Linux doesn't have a community of people who long for the olden days of Mac OS 9. I'll explain.

Back in Mac OS 9, apps didn't have protected memory, and thus you could write extensions to the OS that quite literally rewrote parts of applications and the OS itself. Mac OS X uses a more proper model like Linux. However, some people still want to do those sorts of mods to the OS. The result was that the Unsanity folks created APE. APE basically sits down at the linker level and starts an additional thread with its own code running inside the address space of the target application. This thread then loads plug-ins that modify the behavior of the app.

You should immediately see the problem with this. You have a bunch of people who don't have anything to do with the author of an application writing code that mass-modifies dozens of applications, libraries, etc., essentially doing binary patching on the running OS. There's no other phrase to describe this other than mind-bogglingly dangerous. In a biological comparison, it's like rewriting the genetic code of the entire planet using only a single person as a template---as soon as you hit a person with slightly different biology, the patch goes completely wrong. Similarly, when APE tries to operate on new versions of the OS, new versions of applications, new versions of frameworks and libraries, etc., it tends to result in cutting a path of destruction rather than enhancing anything.

What blows my mind is that APE isn't smart enough to check the OS version and NOT LOAD. It is truly unbelievable. How hard is it to say if [ "$(sw_vers -productVersion | sed -E 's/([0-9]+\.[0-9]+)\..*/\1/')" != "10.4" ] ; then syslog -s "unknown OS version." ; exit 0; fi? Every OS release, APE causes some sort of major problem for a lot of users. Every OS release, people just keep coming back and reinstalling it even after seeing the fallout. I just don't get it. It's like Stockholm Syndrome or something....

IMHO, the Unsanity team should be taken out and beaten with wet noodles until the mere sight of a Chinese restaurant causes them to have nightmares for a year.

Re:Funny

How hard is it to say if [ "$(sw_vers -productVersion | sed -E 's/([0-9]+\.[0-9]+)\..*/\1/')" != "10.4" ] ; then syslog -s "unknown OS version." ; exit 0; fi?

Speak for yourself... I'm still stuck on how to pronounce "sw-vers"...

Why Linux doesn't have this problem.

You have a bunch of people who don't have anything to do with the author of an application writing code that mass-modifies dozens of applications, libraries, etc., essentially doing binary patching on the running OS.

I've done that as well. I mean, binary patching the actual OS, not just applications running in userland. Sometimes you gotta do it.

If you knew what GNU libc does to try and avoid having to make people rebuild applications when upgrading libraries, you'd run screaming. They have code in there to look for libraries at runtime and dynamically load different variants of other libraries depending on what you're using and what you have installed. The glibc team has people who do nothing but look for cases where they have to adapt for different libraries and different kernel versions.

The reason that you don't have more of a problem on Linux is that there's no central Steve Jobs for Linux who dictates the way the GUI works, so if you don't like the way Enlightenment or fvwm or Windowmaker behaves, you can change it. The downside of this is that there's no single framework you can modify or replace to make global changes. There used to be, back when everyone used Athena Widgets, and you could replace libXaw with libXaw95 to get a Windows 95 look, or with libXawSTeP to get a NeXTSTeP look. Now, instead, you get Battluin GUIs between the Gnome and KDE yobbos.

And there's all kinds of Windows hacks that do similar stuff to APE, from development tools to simple user interface enhancements. And, yes, they can cause problems and break in new versions of the OS.

What Unsanity has done is to create a framework that makes this kind of thing relatively safe compared to having everyone build their own. Unfortunately since they're not at Apple or someone that Apple is willing to support (because they are undoing the things that The Steve has decreed) there's an unhealthy passive-aggressive relationship between Apple and Unsanity that doesn't exist between (say) Debian and the glibc team.

And, yes, they should be disabling themselves on upgrade. And Apple should look at the things that people are using Haxies for and make the things they are trying to get rid of optional.

The other thing is, on Windows people simply don't put their trust in having an upgrade work. They do clean installs. And they wait on upgrading Windows until this kind of thing gets shaken out.

Re:Funny

What blows my mind is that APE isn't smart enough to check the OS version and NOT LOAD

You meant why doesn't APE do this?

// Check so we don't load on 10.5
        SInt32 vers = 0;
        err = Gestalt(gestaltSystemVersion, &vers);
        if (err or (vers >= 0x1050))
        {
                return paramErr;
        }


(which I just took from the APE source code).

Re:Funny

Per Unsanity's web page, the current version checks. Previous versions don't. They say "Please accept our sincere apologies for all the trouble that was caused. We have underestimated the number of people running "outdated" versions of our software."
http://www.unsanity.org/archives/haxies/leopard.php [unsanity.org]

Personally, I think APE and the Unsanity haxies are %$^%$ and I stay as far away from them as I can!

jesus h christ

people are so fucking stupid
"oh no this 3rd party application which adds dubious and useless enhancements to my system is causing my computer to not work upon upgrading to a completely new version!"
bust out the slashdot article I guess

Re:jesus h christ

Using APE is an insanity of the first order anyway. Dealing with Unsanity's refusal to help is what made me dump all their products.

Me: "Hi APE is causing crashes on my mac"
Unsanity: "No it's not, it can't. This is why.... "
Me: "OK, that makes sense thanks"

two weeks later

Me: "Hi, APE definitely is causing crashes on my mac"
Unsanity: "No, it can't be, because... "
Me: "I just did a fresh install. it survived multiple reboots in its completely standard configuration. I installed APE, now X, Y and Z all crash"
Unsanity: "Well it's not APE, because APE does ... "
Me: "I removed APE, and instantly it's working again"
Unsanity: "Well it can't be APE, because ... "
Me: "Fuck you"

Mod parent up

This is hardly the first time Unsanity's stuff has caused problems with a new version of OS X. If people are too damned dumb to uninstall their unsupported-hack add-ons before upgrading, that's their problem, not Apple's.

And no matter how much better OS X is than Windows w/r/t the "it just works" aspect, things can and do still go wrong sometimes. A little pre-upgrade basic system maintenance never hurts (at least repair permissions and verify/repair the target disk from Disk Utility on the Leopard CD), and neither does making a bootable clone of the system in case you have to revert.

~Philly

Re:Mod parent up

If things go wrong sometimes, then I would say that "it just works" isn't all that true. I don't use Apple stuff, but I still have a pretty good impression of their integration/user experience work.

I just started getting into Apple stuff with the release of the G4 Mac Mini. I then subsequently got a Mac Pro to replace my main machine which was running Linux. I decided to give OS X a fair chance to see if really was better than Linux.

In my experience "it just works" is far from accurate. It's definitely a slick environment and worth using, but comes with enough issues that it doesn't live up to the hype. But I guess its a mistake to listen to the hype (Apple's products fell far short of my expectations due to hype).

The problem, as with any commercial vendor, is that you are often stuck waiting for the company to fix things. For example, iLife apps crash. They crash a *LOT*. What can you possibly do other than wait for them to fix the bugs? OS X itself is usually pretty solid. Occasional something just won't work right. Sometimes I actually have to REBOOT to fix things. This is just not what I expect from an OS based on UNIX. I suspect (partially from experience) that they just haven't gotten it together after the Intel switch.

Apple's products have just as many problems as any other OS vendor. They may be different problems, but don't believe anyone who says they don't exist. And Apple is a company that is constantly changing things (OS9 -> OSX, PowerPC -> Intel, frequent OS updates), so you can't possibly expect stability from them. Having control over the hardware apparently still isn't enough to achieve this.

Re:Mod parent up

Not everyone knows about APE. I, for one, found APE on my system after wondering why my logins were so damned slow. Hint: update_prebinding was being run on every user logon because that was the only workaround that Unsanity decided to use for some retarded bug of theirs. Nevermind that this slows user logon down by about 5 minutes each time! However, I had never installed APE ever in my life, so how did it get there?

Logitech mouse/keyboard drivers install them for you, without asking or telling you! It's not entirely the user that's to blame - even a reasonably careful user won't notice surreptitious installs like this. Logitech's method of bundling it is vaguely like spyware, I'd say.

Re:jesus h christ

APE is a third party product that is not a part of OS X.

However, recently Logitech has started using APE as a part of their driver package for their mice and keyboards, in effect installing something known to cause headaches behind people's backs.

Therefore the many people that use Logitech products may have APE without explicitly having installed it.

Either way, I can hardly see how Apple is at fault.

Re:jesus h christ

God FUCKING DAMN IT.

I just found a tool called "ape_install" in the resources of the logitech prefpane

Rosyna, FUCK YOU and logitech both.

-jcr

Re:jesus h christ

Does this APE shit have to be intentionally installed by users?

It's usually flung at you. It will stick to your system if you don't clean it soon enough.

Re:jesus h christ

This reminds of the Automatix debacle on Ubuntu - Have people forgotten that? Or does Ubuntu get a free pass because it is Linux?

Honestly, I see more people defending OS X here than what Ubuntu had.

Not only did Ubuntu have people going insane over that, but they also had the "is not ready for the desktop" memes all over the place and stupid crap about issues that haven't existed for a decade in Linux.

the offical word from unsanity is it's broken

Unsanity is officially listed by the company not to worik with 10.5

http://www.wire-heads.com/istrip/index.php?strip_id=26

Leopard install with Application Enhancer

I have done this on two Macs so far, my PowerBook G4 @1.5 GHz and a G5 iMac @2.1 GHz Both have Application Enhancer as well as Fruit Menu, WindowShade X and other Unsanity products installed. They still show up in System Preferences, but are not functioning. I'm hoping for updates soon. However, their presence in my systems had no ill effect on my Leopard upgrades.