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Microsoft IT

IBM Beats Microsoft Over the Head With Their Own Code 82

Posted by Zonk from the ow-that-if-statement-hurts dept.
bednarz writes "IBM has added a twist to its new commitment to help OpenOffice.org battle Microsoft Office by donating code that was originally derived in part from a Microsoft-developed technology. IBM's iAccessible2, code-named Project Missouri, is a specification for technology used to help the visually impaired interact with Open Document Format (ODF)-compliant applications and was developed in part using Microsoft Active Accessibility (MAA). 'When the specification was donated to the Linux Foundation, Oracle, Sun, and SAP committed to help with future development. Mozilla is committed to incorporating it into its Firefox browser, and vendors GW Micro and Freedom Scientific will also use it in their own screen reader products. In addition, Project Missouri has won accolades from the American Association of People with Disabilities, the American Foundation for the Blind, and the National Federation of the Blind in Computer Science.'"
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IBM Beats Microsoft Over the Head With Their Own Code More

IBM Beats Microsoft Over the Head With Their Own Code

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  • Microsoft says... Thanks! (Score:4, Insightful)

    by BadAnalogyGuy ( 945258 ) <BadAnalogyGuy@gmail.com> on Tuesday September 11, 2007 @11:45AM (#20554697)
    I don't know where "beats Microsoft over the head" comes in. IBM is donating Microsoft-developed code that empowers the blind to use software better.

    Gee, I'm sure MS doesn't want that kind of bad PR...

    Next up: Bill Gates donates large sums to the UN to help with immunizations! Oh, MS! BURRRNN!

    • Re:Microsoft says... Thanks! (Score:5, Informative)

      by PJ1216 ( 1063738 ) * on Tuesday September 11, 2007 @11:50AM (#20554809)
      It's just saying that in the war to bring down MS Office being the unofficial standard as office documents (though, is trying real hard to become a standard), MS code will play a role against MS.

      Microsoft code will be used to help out a product in direct competition with Microsoft. That's where the article headline comes from.

      • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

        by lottameez ( 816335 )
        Who cares? I'm sure folks at IBM are probably using XP machines, and probably MS-Word to write up the stinging, anti-Microsoft press releases ...
        Ha! Take another gulp of your own closed-source medicine, you MSFT cretins! Sweeeeeet Justice!!!
        [cue maniacal laughter]


        yawn.
    • I'm going to fucking kill the blind!!!!!!!!
    • I don't know where "beats Microsoft over the head" comes in. IBM is donating Microsoft-developed code that empowers the blind to use software better.

      The irony relates to Microsoft's use of disability advocates to block the adoption of ODF in Massachusetts.

      Microsoft's own code will be used to spike that weapon.

      • I don't know where "beats Microsoft over the head" comes in. IBM is donating Microsoft-developed code that empowers the blind to use software better.

        The irony relates to Microsoft's use of disability advocates to block the adoption of ODF in Massachusetts.

        Microsoft's own code will be used to spike that weapon.

        Actually the Irony is even deeper. Windows was started as a joint venture between IBM and MS to hold people over until OS/2 Warp could be marketed (and then as the "Home" windowing OS where OS/2 Warp

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Bogtha ( 906264 )

      I don't know where "beats Microsoft over the head" comes in.

      That's because the submitter completely forgot to mention the connection they were making here. Normally you'd expect the editor to... well edit submissions so that they make sense, but this is Slashdot, where apparently 'Editor' is the job title for monkeys who hit the 'Approve' button occasionally.

      Anyway, I assume that the connection here is that a lot of the FUD being thrown at the OpenDocument Format is that Microsoft Office is nicer

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by cp.tar ( 871488 )

        but this is Slashdot, where apparently 'Editor' is the job title for monkeys who hit the 'Approve' button occasionally.

        Well, they did want to use pidgeons, but Google already patented those...

      • That's because the submitter completely forgot to mention the connection they were making here. Normally you'd expect the editor to... well edit submissions so that they make sense, but this is Slashdot, where apparently 'Editor' is the job title for monkeys who hit the 'Approve' button occasionally.

        As soon as I read this, I knew... without even looking... that this had to be an article submitted by Zonk. The correspondence of screwed-up articles to Zonk submittals has got to be close to 1:1.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by beacher ( 82033 )
      "IBM's iAccessible2, code-named Project Missouri, is a specification for technology used to help the visually impaired "

      It's kinda odd picking Missouri for the project name .. aka.. the "Show Me" state.

      • Re: (Score:1)

        by ragefan ( 267937 )

        "IBM's iAccessible2, code-named Project Missouri, is a specification for technology used to help the visually impaired "

        It's kinda odd picking Missouri for the project name .. aka.. the "Show Me" state.
        I'd imagine that's way it was picked. Besides, Microsoft can't use the codename "Project New York" for everything!

    • Ya isn't this just sort of a good thing for everyone? I wouldn't be surprised if Microsoft used this as an example of how extensible they're accessibility platform is. "Not only does it work for our products, it works for products that compete with our own!"

      I've heard mixed reviews of Microsoft's accessibility platform and I'm not qualified to make judgments on that but I think this is a net positive for Microsoft (and for everyone interested in more accessible technology).

    • Re:Microsoft says... Thanks! (Score:5, Informative)

      by Stalus ( 646102 ) on Tuesday September 11, 2007 @07:39PM (#20563899)
      I work at IBM with some of the folks that designed IA2, so let me fill in what you're missing. There is NO Microsoft-developed code here at all, AFAIK.

      Microsoft has an event system (MSAA) in Windows that is designed to pass COM objects from applications to screen readers. They also designed an interface that provides information like an object's role and label (e.g. a button labeled submit). Unfortunately, this interface (IAccessible) has been entirely inadequate, but what do you expect from something designed for Windows 95? Instead of extending the interface, Microsoft has decided to pursue UI Automation, which screen readers don't/can't support yet.

      IBM used their experience to design a more complete interface, named IAccessible2. They then showed how you can use the Windows MSAA event system to pass around COM objects that can expose the IAccessible2 interface. Then, they worked with screen reader manufacturers and other companies (Microsoft didn't participate AFAIK) to make sure there was a complete solution - an interface is useless if no one uses it.

      Now, for the part Open Office cares about - The real code for OO.org is that you have to implement these interfaces for all of your widgets. For Lotus Note 8, IBM used editors similar to Open Office and implemented and tested this interface for all of these widgets (menus, rich text, yadda yadda). Now IBM is donating some of that code, which has the potential to make Open Office more accessible and more robust with screen readers than Word.

      • I work at IBM with some of the folks that designed IA2, so let me fill in what you're missing.

        If not word from the horse's mouth, then at least a nod and a wink from someone working in the stables (hope you don't have too much shovelling to do >G<). Unfortunately, since this is SlashDot, then you're going to get flamed for not knowing what you're talking about.
        Someone fairly high in IBM obviously saw this set of tools ; saw a major plank in MS's anti-OO.org strategy ; saw that protecting Office is pro

  • sensational headlines (Score:5, Insightful)

    by pembo13 ( 770295 ) on Tuesday September 11, 2007 @11:45AM (#20554711) Homepage
    These sensational headlines are kinda getting boring.

  • Wow! (Score:5, Funny)

    by Otter ( 3800 ) on Tuesday September 11, 2007 @11:46AM (#20554721) Journal
    This is now even more promising: a Microsoft spec, Lotus Notes code and a Brooksian army of offshored developers! It's hard to imagine how this couldn't work!

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by j-pimp ( 177072 )

      This is now even more promising: a Microsoft spec, Lotus Notes code and a Brooksian army of offshored developers! It's hard to imagine how this couldn't work!

      Someone will get pissed off enough to fork and write something better. Everyone else will be pissed off enough to use it. Hence Phoenix/Firebird/Firefox. Of course, I'm just waiting for someone to port NeoOffice to GNUStep and GNUStep to Windows. Then OO will be freed from its Evil Sun/IBM masters, and oppressed by whoever jumps on that bandwagon.

      BTW how is Brooksian (if you mean Fred Brooks the author of the Mythical Man Month) a bad thing.

  • Reading incorrectly (Score:3, Informative)

    by jshriverWVU ( 810740 ) on Tuesday September 11, 2007 @11:48AM (#20554767)
    Perhaps I read this wrong, but IBM wrote some code using Microsoft technology (IP) then plan to fuse it with the OO source tree? Does this ring a bell for anyone? Isn't this what MS has been complaining about? Not trying to troll, but this sounds odd. Maybe IBM wrote the underlying code that was later used by MS in their product, in that case this is a wonderful donation. Though the way it's worded doesnt sound right.

    • Re:Reading incorrectly (Score:4, Interesting)

      by jimicus ( 737525 ) on Tuesday September 11, 2007 @01:44PM (#20557417)
      Bear in mind that it's probably fairly old code.

      I daresay IBM were granted sublicensing rights at a time when Microsoft hadn't even considered that such a license as the GPL could exist, let alone be in any sort of common use. I bet you anything you like they wouldn't license code in such a way today.

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by Locutus ( 9039 )
      I believe IBM wrote some code based, in part, on a Microsoft spec for adaptive tech(MS-COM based), and in part on extensions IBM developed to that spec(iAccessible2). Basically, IBM extended an MS spec, released the combination and then implemented that in code. IBM released the extended spec to The Linux Foundation but is now releasing the implementation/code of that extended spec to the OOo group. I'm guessing that the IBM spec had some IBM license on it initially but then was given/released to the Linux
      • They can be found at http://accessibility.freestandards.org/a11yspecs/ia2/api/ [freestandards.org]. From a quick look, it appears that the interfaces are under the GPL. Would this mean that any implementation that used these interfaces would have to be GPL? Surely you can't implement an interface without including the source code for the interface specification. For me, this would almost mean that any interface should be published under an MIT or BSD license, even if your want your implementation to be under a GPL. Then y

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by Locutus ( 9039 )
          if an API spec is GPL'ed then wouldn't mean that if you use the spec:

          you can change it and use that changed version for internal uses without giving those changes back

          you can change it but if you provide that to others, you must provide the "source"/spec to those who ask ...

          Just thinking that the GPL is applied to the document and in this case, it's an API spec, not implementation source code.

          LoB
  • Microsoft has made no commitment to follow any standard. Including the standards that they developed and supported only in their products. Despite all the effort it put into OOXML ratification, it really made no commitment to implement it fully or support it in the next version. They own 90% of the market and not allowing anyone else to interoperate with them is the clear unambiguous goal for them. So what if IBM posts some accessibility code and donates it? In the next version the accessibility API & G

    • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

      by JiffyPop ( 318506 )
      Do you realize what "accessibility" refers to in the context of this article? Congratulations on being 100% off-topic.

      This is about making OpenOffice.org easier to use for the disabled. Mozilla is jumping on board, too. It requires no action by Microsoft, and will add a coherent accessibility scheme to some of the most visible open source projects.
      • Uh... businesses do. And that's really the point. The price tag you pay for going with OOo is that you don't get support in any real tangible fashion. I work helpdesk, and I'd rather support microsoft office (even though I use OOo at home) simply because I can find an article very easily on how to do anything that can be done with step by step instructions just by visiting Microsoft's website. OpenOffice? I suppose I could find ti eventually, if I didn't mind surfing endless forums and spending an hour I
  • All the improvements are very welcomed especially when you take into account the price of Open Office. How will Microsoft, at some point (or even now), justify the huge price tag of MS Office?

    • How will Microsoft, at some point (or even now), justify the huge price tag of MS Office?
      they have little technical merit to gloat about and in effect their only trick would be to bundle if with their OS or make it so commonly used people don't bother to find alternatives because it's "good enough". oh wait...

  • I hope (Score:3, Insightful)

    by JustNiz ( 692889 ) on Tuesday September 11, 2007 @12:07PM (#20555141)
    I hope IBM they made VERY sure that Microsoft can't come after them for using MS technology, otherwise it could be giving MS what they want in that it geves them an excuse to attack and try to close down OpenOffice.
  • I wage that nobody cares. In fact I could probably make a blind joke or two and still manage to not offend the fair majority of people here.
    • '...I could probably make a blind joke or two and ...'

      Or maybe a lame joke?

    • Re: (Score:1, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward

      In fact I could probably make a blind joke or two...

      I am blind (you insensitive clod). And I'd wager I'm not the only slashdot reader who is. I mean, if the comments on Slashdot are to be believed, then the Slashdot editors alone must have a large fraction of blind members, not to mention all the Slashdot moderators....

      Yet, I still don't really care about the article. Then again, I only skimmed through it, like any other card-carrying Slashdot member. But from what I can tell, it's a cross-platform API for adding accessibility to various programs....

      I'

  • Project name (Score:2, Informative)

    by umrguy76 ( 114837 )
    Missouri is the "Show Me" state, hence the project name. Missouri is in that vast wasteland between LA and New York City. ;)

    http://www.state.mo.us/ [state.mo.us]
  • I think 'poking them in the eye' would be a better analogy. Anyhoo, these kind of enabling technologies is required for Federal use.

  • There are a bunch of accessibility features... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by bmajik ( 96670 ) <matt@mattevans.org> on Tuesday September 11, 2007 @01:00PM (#20556417) Homepage Journal
    in the Microsoft platform that many people never see or think about. We end up making extensive use of them for automated testing, actually.

    It turns out that the same sort of API that makes it easier to build accessible products, whereby you can ask any UI element about its current visibility, text, or whatever, is also good for writing test automation. When you couple that with the ability to send windows events or messages to an arbitrary control, now you've got something foundational for doing automated UI testing in a pretty robust way.

    Internally we work pretty hard on accessibility features because they're great for enabling users with different adaptive needs, they're required to sell to many government offices, and because they're excellent for our internal testing efforts.

  • The article it wrong; IBM work is not from MS IP (Score:5, Informative)

    by peterkorn ( 712751 ) on Tuesday September 11, 2007 @01:17PM (#20556881)
    IAccessible2 is an extension to IAccessible, the core accessible object in Microsoft Active Accessibility (MSAA). It supplements the MS-defined information with a ton of stuff that is missing and is needed to provide real support for assistive technologies (vs. the very limited job Microsoft did). IAccessible2 is actually a port of the GNOME Accessibility API that Sun developed and brought to the GNOME community (see ATK and AT-SPI from the GNOME SVN repository). That was in turn derived from the Java Accessibility API, of which I am a co-author.

    More specifically, the IAccessible2 header files are copied almost directly from the OpenOffice.org UNO Accessibility API - the IAccessible2 headers contain a Sun copyright! See http://blogs.sun.com/korn/date/20070910 [sun.com] and http://blogs.sun.com/korn/date/20061214 [sun.com] for more on this.

    • Ok, cool. I'm still confused. IBM is contributing code it got from open office to ... open office? That seems like it should have been required in the first place. I don't know what Sun would have done without IBM donating its own code back to it.

      • Re:The article it wrong; IBM work is not from MS I (Score:4, Informative)

        by peterkorn ( 712751 ) on Tuesday September 11, 2007 @10:20PM (#20565665)
        Bill,

        This is precisely why the license for OOo changed to LGPL (which happened just prior to OOo 2.0). Under the previous license, code did not need to be contributed back (and the OOo derived functionality in IBM's Lotus Notes 8 came from OOo 1.9.x). The big news in the IBM announcement is that IBM is returning to the community from whence it forked OOo, and contributing back (many? most? all) of their changes. One thing that is being highlighted (and discussed in this thread and erroneously attributed to a Microsoft original source) is that among their first contributions back is the newly created by them Windows edition of the accessibility work that they derived from OOo.

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