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Looking Beyond Vista To Fiji and Vienna
Posted by
CowboyNeal
on Sat Dec 30, 2006 01:20 PM
from the better-and-better dept.
from the better-and-better dept.
Vinit wrote in with an article that describes Microsoft's strategy for future versions of Windows. It begins: "As we all know that Microsoft Vista was originally scheduled to be released in 2003, after two years of Windows XP, but it got delayed by over five years due to various reasons. Definitely, Vista is very very improved OS over the previous versions, but the delayed in the launch has cost Microsoft, billions of dollars. Now the question at the moment is, what exactly after Vista? Microsoft can't afford to wait another five years for an operating system. People are becoming more aware of the choices they have, and Linux is no longer a hobbyist OS, and that day isn't far away when it becomes simple enough to be a viable alternative to Windows. The competition is fierce. That is why, to stay at the top, Microsoft has planned a 'Vista R2', codenamed 'Fiji' which will be released some time in 2008. And after Fiji, there will be Windows 'Vienna'. Windows Fiji, will not be a totally different OS from Vista; but it will be an add-on. Whereas Vienna will be totally different from Vista."
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Technology: Vista Followup Already in the Works 482 comments
DesertBlade passed us an InfoWorld article, which has the news that Microsoft is already hard at work on the next version of Windows ... and we may see it as early as 2009. Possibly codenamed Vienna, the next Windows iteration will be coming a brief two and a half years after Vista's launch. This is the same timeframe Microsoft claims it would have utilized for Vista, had they not put Longhorn 'on the back burner' to deal with security issues in XP. Corporate Vice President of Development Ben Fathi is already discussing features for the next OS: "We're going to look at a fundamental piece of enabling technology. Maybe its hypervisors, I don't know what it is ... Maybe it's a new user interface paradigm for consumers. It's too early for me to talk about it ... But over the next few months I think you're going to start hearing more and more."
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See Apple for details (Score:5, Interesting)
Once you get your basic design right you can gradually improve and alter things. This is where Microsoft failed, their security model was flawed, so with Vista they've fixed it (or so they say).
Re:See Apple for details (Score:5, Funny)
Yeah, you used to be allowed full access to your own files and do with them as you please.
We'll have no more of that nonsense.
KFG
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Re:See Apple for details (Score:5, Interesting)
The delay in Vista seems to have been caused by the desire to release (even internally) a single "OS product". But the fact of the matter is that an OS is composed of hundreds (thousands even) of small parts. MS is trying to release "the latest and greatest" of each part simultaneously. The inevitable ping-pong between departments trying to get it all to work with one another causes massive delays.
FLOSS usually avoids this problem because each project is developed completely independently. Most projects do not use the bleeding edge GTK library for instance. They use the latest "released" and "stable" library. Even though GTK development continues, projects usually don't care. They tie themselves to a stable rather than moving target.
It is generally the job of the distro to make it all work together. But again, they are working against stable targets for the most part. Nobody says, "Hey it's a week before release and the GTK guys released a new version of the library. Let's delay and make everything use it." (Generally speaking that is -- I'm sure there have been exceptions).
Of course there are some problems. Sometimes you just *have* to release 2 versions of GTK in the distro. But who cares (Yay for ld.so! Why the Windows people can't see the benefit of dealing with shared libraries like this in completely beyond me...) Of course worse is moving between versions of something like perl.
It's strange... I've tried to convince several of the companies I've worked for to operate in this manner, but I can't get anyone to try it. Have 2 different groups: Development - that works on a backlog of tasks and incrementally improves various pieces of the product; and Release - that takes versions of the development pieces, matches them with marketing requirements, makes a cohesive product and releases when the marketing requirements are met.
I keep trying to tell people that there is no need to freeze development just because you are doing a release. In some shops I've worked in I've literally sat on my ass for months waiting for the release to go out (while some other poor schmuck is camping in his cubicle trying to finish some last minute requirements).
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Re:See Apple for details (Score:5, Interesting)
Apple releases patches on a monthly basis, as does Microsoft.
Apple releases updates on a quarterly basis; Microsoft seems to do it on a yearly basis.
Apple releases upgrades on a yearly basis; Microsoft seems to take 5 years to do it.
Some further explanation:
A patch is a small change to fix bug.
An update is a collection of patches tested together, as well as small updates in functionality.
An upgrade is brand new functionality that was not available before.
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New OS? I Think Not... (Score:5, Insightful)
How, we all ask, will it achieve such wonders?
The answer: "Windows Fiji will feature a more powerful sidebar, Monaco, a music authoring tool similar to Apple's Garageband, default playback of HD-DVD, more advanced Speech Recognition, and new themes, icons, wallpapers, games, and minor tweaks to almost everything."
Mmmhmm. I can't be the only one sitting here thinking 'what a load of bull'. I mean, really, if I wanted to get this apparently 'new generation' of computing, I'd go out and buy a
Bill Gates, Speech Recognition and Crediblity. (Score:5, Interesting)
Anybody who follows Gates knows that he has been serious about speach (sic) recognition for a long time.
It's hard for anyone who does not "follow" the cult of Gates to take anything he says seriously. He's been promising the moon and stars for decades but has yet to deliver anything but mild UI modifications. Generally, his company writes down a wish list of competitor's features and promises to deliver them bigger and better in his "next" release. As the years roll by he drops all of the features until he's left with something like Vista, which offerst the user little beyond DRM madness and a UI upgrade, which he then invariably promotes as "revolutionary".
Despite all of that, I thought he liked to talk about handwriting recognition. You know, the tablet PC, that' he's promissed the world since the Apple Newton. Palm, OpenZarus and Xstroke all beat him to the punch and his tablet PC has yet to catch on.
He might as well claim his next OS will have AI and do "seemless" speech recognition. He won't loose much credibility that way. At this point, he's got so little to use, I'd sooner believe penis pill spam.
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Re:New Generation? I Think So (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes, he's been crazy about speech recognition, and it makes a certain sort of sense. However, the idea that speech recognition alone will replace the keyboard interface shows a lack of imagination. Part of the reason we've stuck with keyboards for as long as we have is they're efficient. They're cheap, can operate easily in noisy areas, and allow for purposeful manipulation of text. If you're a good typist, keyboards can be faster and easier, too. And can you imagine trying to play Half-Life with a speech interface? Keyboards aren't going anywhere.
So what does that leave for speech? Maybe you can say, "launch microsoft word" and then, once it's launched, you start typing. Or you could say, "next song" and iTunes would switch to the next song instead of having to click on a button. Wowwie! And what happens when you're sitting at your computer, and you say something to your friend about "the next song in my playlist..." How does it know you don't want to go to the next song?
The problem is that having computers respond naturally to speech requires an awful lot of AI that we won't have anytime soon. Even if we do have that amount of AI in a PC someday, it's still not clear that a keyboard won't be preferable for many interactions. Of course, maybe once we have that level of AI, we won't be trying to type anything up anymore anyway. I'll say, "Computer, please write a letter to my mom." and the computer will just do it. "Computer, write me a slashdot post on this topic."
There are only two groups of people I'm aware of who think that it's a good idea speech recognition for the purpose of doing away with keyboards, and have really good text-to-speech to you so you won't have to read. Those two groups are "children" and "Bill Gates". The best major applications for these technologies are accessibility for the disabled and portable devices. That's pretty much it for the foreseeable future.
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Why did this even get posted? (Score:5, Insightful)
Who wrote this? (Score:5, Funny)
I'm not looking for Shakespeare here, but the submitter is what, eight?
Re:Who wrote this? (Score:5, Interesting)
While I have no reason to doubt either the blogger, or the uhm... other blogger. My bullshit detector is hovering at about '9'. It wouldn't be the first time someone sourced themselves in the pursuit of adsense dollars. Or just to lend themselves some credibility for that matter.
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Re:Who wrote this? (Score:5, Funny)
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From TFA (Score:5, Interesting)
While in Windows Vienna the current interface will be completely stripped, no more explorer shells, and taskbars. No start menu. Probably no toolbars, or menus and Speech Recognition will become a major input device. One thing is for certain, Vienna won't be just an operating system, but a new generation in computing.
So Fiji is going to rip off all the cool features of Leopard and incorporate into Vista while Vienna aims to be the next generation of computing. Why does this sound so familiar... oh wait....
And didn't we just recently have an article on stupid movie uses of computers that blasted the "talking computer" from Star Trek as being a completely useless interface? So why is this a good thing?
But it's also Microsoft. "2003" was codespeak for 2007, so "2008" means 2015 or something... and all the cool new features will be dropped for reasons of infeasibility anyway.
"Definitely, Vista is very very improved OS.." (Score:5, Interesting)
No Support for IPX, Appletalk, WebDav, or NetDDE
Even less capable backup built in than XP, which itself had inferior backup to previous versions
High cost
Bloat #1 - takes over 10GB of hard disk
Bloat #2 - 2GB of RAM needed
Crippled wordpad can't read
Obtuse menuing requiring going in half a dozen or more levels in for basic controls
Stupid ReadyBoost trying to do what would be better done by simple swap/page to usb device, except RB is MUCH slower
Hardware vendors not in hurry to support Vista
in short, you'll gain nothing and lose functionality by going to Vista. save your money, just say NO.
Re:"Definitely, Vista is very very improved OS.." (Score:5, Interesting)
Wow.. didn't realize that. WTF were they thinking?
I'm currently on a 2gb vista test machine and it's going into swap all the time. 2gb is really not enough... it's dog slow due to the swapping.
Add to that:
Broken program files menu that doesn't cascade (so you have to know where what you're looking for is before you look for it).
Font bugs that regularly turn the fonts to unreadable crap requiring a reboot.
Claims to have NFS client but this does not actually function.
Running about 50% of available software switches aeroglass off. Sometimes it doesn't come back on without a reboot.
S...L...O...W... I mean this is a dual processor 64bit machine and it's slower than the celeron running XP next to it.
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Has it really? (Score:5, Interesting)
Until the day Vista ships, MS is getting huge amounts of cash from Windows XP licenses on almost every new PC sold. Most people don't run out and buy a new OS for existing PCs, they usually stick with whatever came with it. How exactly will Vista increase MS's revenue to the tune of billions? Had they released something sooner, what new cash flow would that have provided and would it have justified the expense for development?
I'm sortof dancing around my real point here: I think the *real* reason so much time has gone buy since XP is that Microsoft really hasn't had much incentive to release a new OS.
Bad Omen (Score:5, Funny)
WinFS? (Score:5, Interesting)
As for "file locations" being managed by applications - mmm, no thanks, I rather group files by projects which can involve many applications. What I'd really love is a return to the functionality present in Word for DOS, where the application would look in the current working directory for project specific configuration files.
I think Mark Twain said it best (Score:5, Interesting)
We've heard it all before. Seriously. And it happens just like that: "Yeah, we know XP isn't that much of an upgrade to MS-Windows 2k, but you should see Longhorn! Oh, it's gonna be great! It'll milk your cows, skim the cream, and make fresh ice cream! It'll put your kids through college! Oh, and it'll, uh, make your complexion clear up, and get rid of your herpes!"
Every time Microsoft releases a less-than-stellar product (which is invariably), they start bragging about how great things will be in the *next* release, on which they haven't even started working. That's the Microsoft modus operandi: promise more than the competition currently has, and deliver less. Wash, rinse, repeat.
Timeline for Windows Vienna (Score:5, Funny)
2007 Q1 Vista released; work on Vienna begins.
2007 Q4 Microsoft announces Vienna will contain innovative new filesystem
2008 Q2 Microsoft projects release date for 'Vienna' as late 2010 or early 2011
2008 Q3 Microsoft announces Vienna will revolutionize the internet desktop
2009 Q2 Microsoft announces Vienna's filesystem will make search irrelevant
2009 Q4 Microsoft projects release date for Vienna as second half of 2011
2010 Q1 Microsoft announces Vienna will be inherently more secure than Vista
2010 Q2 Microsoft announces Vienna's new API will make developers' jobs easy
2010 Q4 Microsoft announces Vienna will have built-in internet telephony (VOIP)
2011 Q2 Microsoft projects release date for Vienna in early 2012
2011 Q3 Microsoft announces Vienna will work with next-generation security hardware
2012 Q1 Microsoft announces partnership with wireless internet provider to enhance Vienna's
internet telephony, allowing users to go "unplugged"
2012 Q2 Microsoft projects Vienna release date pushed back to 2013
2012 Q3 Microsoft announces Vienna's wireless internet telephony will make cellphones obsolete
2013 Q1 Microsoft announces Vienna's wireless internet telephony will be more secure than cellphones
2013 Q3 Microsoft announces Vienna kernel will be most secure OS kernel ever
2013 Q4 Microsoft projects Vienna release date in early 2014
2014 Q1 Microsoft announces the new filesystem may not be ready for RTM but will ship
just after Vienna in a service pack
2014 Q2 Microsoft announces Vienna public beta will be forthcoming later in the year
2014 Q3 Microsoft announces the new developer API will be spun off as a separate project from Vienna
2014 Q4 Microsoft promises Vienna release no later than 2015 Q2
2015 Q1 Deal with wireless internet company falls through
2015 Q2 Microsoft announces innovative filesystem will be in release after Vienna
2015 Q2 Microsoft announces Vienna will still feature "unplugged" internet telephony,
but user will have choice of third-party wireless providers
2015 Q3 Microsoft releases limited beta of Vienna to select individuals and companies
2015 Q3 Reviews of Vienna start coming out; reviewers note internet telephony not present
2015 Q4 Microsoft announces final product name for Vienna will be Windows Fiesta
2015 Q4 Microsoft confirms internet telephony will not be ready to ship with first release
2016 Q1 Microsoft releases public beta of Fiesta to a wider audience
2016 Q2 Microsoft announces final release date for Fiesta in November; nobody believes it
2016 October Microsoft announces Windows Fiesta will be available to select customers in
November, retail version will ship in January
2016 November Microsoft announces Fiesta now available to select customers
2017 January Microsoft actually releases Windows Fiesta
Oh, Vienna! (Score:5, Funny)
As bad as XP is I'm sticking with it. (Score:5, Insightful)
I have no interest in an operating system designed to protect content owners, protect microsoft with horrible activation functionality and little to no benefit to myself.
If I didn't require Windows for work I'd have nothing to do with it. I've been a long time Windows user since Windows 3.1 and each release seemed to be such a major improvement over the previous. Until Vista. Vista is not a users operating system. It's more of a prison.
Re:Five years? (Score:5, Informative)
Perhaps what the author meant to say was that the intended 2 year interval between releases became 5+ years.
Parent
Re:Microsoft: *kicks dead horse* (Score:5, Funny)
Yet another Apple innovation, appropriated by Microsoft. Have they no shame?
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Re:Fiji (Score:5, Funny)
Founded some 2500 years ago. Not like it sprung up over night, like the maybe dozen Viennas you got in USA
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Re:Where's Saddam? (Score:5, Funny)
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