![Microsoft Microsoft](http://a.fsdn.com/sd/topics/microsoft_64100.png)
![IT IT](http://a.fsdn.com/sd/topics/it_64.png)
Microsoft to Acquire Groove Networks 310
namalc writes "In a huge shot across the groupware bow, Microsoft announced today that it would acquire Groove Networks, and Ray Ozzie, the founder of Groove, would become Microsoft CTO.
Ray Ozzie, the
creator of Lotus Notes, had positioned Groove to straddle both the IBM/Lotus and Microsoft worlds. It will be interesting to see what direction Groove takes now."
Questions (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Questions (Score:3, Funny)
virutal office
are you new here?
Re:Questions (Score:4, Funny)
Yup, that's pretty much what all groupware is -- it's software that causes open source fanboys to say "I don't see what the big deal is. I could do the same thing with NNTP, awk, MythTV, ReiserFS, two tin cans and a piece of string. All this "integration" and "working" stuff is just eye candy."
Lotus Notes is the same thing, except that in that case the fanboys really could have done better with the cans and string.
CTFL (Score:5, Funny)
For example if there is a link to "Groove Networks" more information about Groove Networks will appear! Wow!
Re:CTFL (Score:2, Insightful)
"Work together securely over the Internet as if you and your team are in the same physical location. Groove Virtual Office is everything your team needs to share information, manage projects, conduct meetings and get work done."
Sounds good. How does it do this? Lets try their FAQ:
"Q:What exactly is a virtual office? Why the product name ch
Re:CTFL (Score:2)
After looking at their site, I think they actually do offer one solution: The solution to the problem of having your website load too quickly. They aren't handling the slashdotting very well - the marketing department is defintely in charge over there.
Version control + Project management + IM/presence (Score:2)
Some nice change tracking/merging features (office specific). That's basically it. It makes sense Microsoft wants the company, it's perfect (especially so they can ditch LiveMeeting and Sharepoint)
Re:Questions (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Questions (Score:4, Informative)
Groove is a tool to help groups work together across corporate boundaries. It is not a web tool; it uses a totally separate set of protocols. It uses the Simple Symmetric Transfer Protocol when it's in peer-to-peer mode. It tries to connect directly to remote clients, but if that fails -- because, say, there's a firewall in the middle -- the Groove client can connect to remote "relay servers," which are store-and-forward machines. The remote Groove client sitting behind the firewall then downloads the data from its relay server.
Groove is both a platform and an app. The platform is a set of functions to make other apps "Groovy" -- i.e., so that you can make your app support peer-to-peer groupware functions. The app is a collection of tools -- IM, chat, a notepad, a little drawing tool, file sharing, and so forth -- that use the Groove libraries. I've always viewed the Groove app itself as a proof of concept for the platform; building a community of developers around the platform has always been Groove's goal.
Please don't write any description of the product unless you actually know what it does. And please don't think you know what it does just because you've looked at Groove's website. That sort of uniformed spewage gives Slashdot a bad name.
Re:Questions (Score:3, Informative)
Nope. Your reply wasn't just non-technical, it was WRONG. Calling Groove "web based" is a vile misrepresenation of what it does. That's about as bad as describing the Dodge Viper as a "horse based vehicle" just because you saw the phrase "550 horsepower" on its spec sheet.
It suggests that Groove uses some protocols similar to HTTP or HTML (and thus that it might be interoperable with non-proprietary client software). If a solution is "web based", it
Re:Questions (Score:2)
Re:Questions (Score:2, Informative)
Groove's major contributions are 1) that it encrypts everything both over the wire and on disk, without any user intervention (i.e., it's a UI improvement over PGP), 2) that it handles the firewall problem (see my earlier comment), and 3) that it handles synchronization when users are sometimes online, sometimes offline.
Check out the O'Reilly book on "Disruptive Technologies." There's a section in the
Re:Questions (Score:2, Informative)
Steve also neglected to mention the multiple layers of encryption of the data both on disk and across the wire, as well as an ability to adapt connectivity intelligently based on the current network configuration, allowing it to establish P2P or simulated P2P across firewalls and web proxies, meaning that the IT staff has no real overhead to support the communications, except for the increase in bandwidth.
It also has a complex dynamics engine that allows for total sync between communicators.
Please do try
Re:Questions (Score:2, Insightful)
The EOLAS Patent case connection! (Score:2)
When the EOLAS case was in News, Ray Ozzie claimed Lotus notes had a prior art [ozzie.net]. By this acquisition, Microsoft may feel a little easy to defend themselves in the EOLAS case.
Lotus Notes?!?!? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Lotus Notes?!?!? (Score:3, Insightful)
While I agree that the Notes client is quirky at best (and downright nasty for some people), Domino (the Notes server) blows Exchange right out of the water.
It is one of the very few corporate "solutions" that got that whole security thing down right from the start: it has been designed and developed to provide end-to-end security and it shows (in a good way).
Likewise, I
Re:Lotus Notes?!?!? (Score:3, Insightful)
Mistake: (Score:5, Funny)
I believe you have mis-typed "bloody obvious and deeply depressing" in that sentence.
Re:Mistake: (Score:2)
-nB
Re:Mistake: (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Mistake: (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Mistake: (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Mistake: (Score:5, Informative)
There seems to be an assumption that Groove was a success. Joel gives us a lot of food for thought:
Platforms
www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/Platforms.html [joelonsoftware.com]
Don't Let Architecture Astronauts Scare You
www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000018.html [joelonsoftware.com]
Response from Groove
www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000011.html [joelonsoftware.com]
Re:Mistake: (Score:5, Interesting)
Yawn... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Yawn... (Score:2)
Re:Yawn... (Score:2)
This can be said for many large tech companies. Cisco, Oracle, CA, etc. At some point companies become so large that they become incapable or slow at innovation, and must acquire smaller innovative companies to keep up.
Re:Yawn... (Score:2)
More so, what is innovative? Everyone has a different opinion about what innovation is, which I suspect would make it hard to prove false advertising.
Even if they admitted that they are no longer innovative (or never were) I don't see this causing people to change their mind about using MS products. If you took a poll about why people use
Wow. The God of Notes switches sides. (Score:5, Interesting)
Benefits of the Notes creator (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Benefits of the Notes creator (Score:2)
Glib answer: Have you ever seen Lotus Notes?
(In fairness, though, Groove is pretty nice. Either the nightmarishness of Notes isn't Ray Ozzie's fault or he's learned something in the meantime.)
Re:Benefits of the Notes creator (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Benefits of the Notes creator (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Benefits of the Notes creator (Score:3, Insightful)
The UI issues of Notes are shared by most Lotus products -- Lotus' concept of UI is rather different than Microsoft's, and was the one thing I hated most about working for Lotus back when I was on the
Re:Benefits of the Notes creator (Score:2, Interesting)
However,
Re:Wow. The God of Notes switches sides. (Score:3, Insightful)
You neglected to mention that Notes has the dubious priviledge of being hated by both users and admins, while Exchange even though being pain for admins, is generally well received by corporate users. Notes was an unwieldy, diseased, monster. Most sane corporations have long replaced it with HTTP based systems combined with IMAP servers or Exchange.
Re:Wow. The God of Notes switches sides. (Score:4, Interesting)
Philips worldwide uses Lotus Notes, despite the fact that they are a premium client of Microsoft.
The reason is that everybodies mail is encrypted.
The decision to change to Lotus Notes was made after it was discovered that the sysadmins could read all mail, also from upper management. With Lotus Notes that is not possible.
Re:Wow. The God of Notes switches sides. (Score:2)
Then Phillips is yet another victim of clueless pointy-haired-bossism. The answer of course is to use standards-based encryption on the client, such as PGP. That way the security is tr
Hope springs eternal! (Score:2)
Like elm. Or Zmail. Or carrier pigeons. Or anything other than Lotus Notes. Nothing ruins your day like the red box of death [everything2.org]!
Re:Hope springs eternal! (Score:2)
Ah! A sarcastic reply to a sarcastic post! What does sarcasm squared come to? Can we get sarcasm to the third power?
Re:Wow. The God of Notes switches sides. (Score:2)
So this is more like one of the chief Windows architects jumping ship to go work on Linux, and being given a salary that exceeds the GDP of many small countries.
Re:Wow. The God of Notes switches sides. (Score:4, Interesting)
Hmmm. Then how shall we explain all of the people that have begged us consultants to pry them loose from the Lotus Notes Grip Of Doom and get them onto an Exchange platform? I've never, ever, once, been asked about going the other direction, and have not seen a single organization starting from scratch and thinking: "Can't wait to start using Notes!"
Nope, for most non-technical businesses, it's Exchange, SharePoint, and a rent-a-brain to get it into shape... and then, really, not much work at all for anyone other than a luke-warm admin body.
Attn Bashers... (Score:4, Informative)
Please, when you are bashing Lotus Notes, if it's the mail client you have issue with, try to state that. Saying you don't like Lotus Notes is like saying you had a bad experience with a car you owned in college, therefor all cars suck !
If you don't like the mail client, use Outlook instead, the servers have IMAP and POP.
If your apps suck, thank a developer (I guess if a VB app you used once sucked, that would mean all computers suck or something?).
Red Box of Death ? Try moving to a version from this MILLENNIUM !
Letsee, I remember distinctly years ago when LoveBug virus hit, everyone was down but the Notes folks... the UI may not be exactly like Microsoft (which is why I think many of you don't like it, it's not Windows:) but the "mail" is robust and secure enough that it doesn't get viruses, you can restore a single user or many (Exchange 2k3 just recently got that I think), and the PKI security is enough that the CIA, FBI, NSA and other TLOs have to use it. Or, if you prefer, you can authenticate using LDAP (even to Active Directory) and even BE the LDAP authentication server for other apps.
Sure, the next argument is that small little 8 person companies don't need the level of security, failover, extensibility, etc. that an enterprise environment requires... That's true, but they don't want Exchange and the overhead it requires either.
A special note to the consultant or whomever in another posting here - *you* haven't converted any shops to Notes lately (and you are The World???) - but the net turnover last year was almost 1500 big shops switching from Microsuck to Lotus (next time research before you slam). Check out the recent case studies [ibm.com] if you like.
For those folks that care, you should know that Lotus Notes isn't email software - email is like 10% of what it does... Lotus is workflow applications, web applications, blogs, middleware and integration, document management, presence awareness (Lotus Sametime IM is #1 in the Fortune 500). And let's not forget, they support open standards more than anyone, period (you would think OSS folks would get this???) If you want you data in XML, you got it... with Microsuck you get their closed version. You can have an app server that runs Domino, attaches to MySQL, output pages using Perl and PHP... anything you want really (simply put, it's incredibly extensible).
Platforms [lotus.com] ? You can run it on Windows, AIX, Solaris, z/OS, iSeries, o yeah, they even have a version FOR LINUX, RedHat and UnitedLinux certified ! (where's Exchange for Linux?).
Check it out for yourself [ibm.com].
This should be a great thing for Groove. (Score:5, Informative)
Conversely, Groove gets to present its unique approach to a larger audience than ever before, as well as having better access to improve and extend its compatibility with Microsoft products.
It's an exciting time for laptop warriors, that's for sure! Never before has this level of versatility been offered.
MS Press Release (Score:5, Informative)
OS X then? (Score:4, Interesting)
Groove is an interesting and pretty secure P2P system, and I wouldn't mind being able to use it without having to fire up a second OS on my Powerbook just to use it.
Re:OS X then? (Score:2)
You can answer that question by trying to find a copy of Access in the Mac version of Office.
App with competitive advantage == no Mac port
Microsoft "innovates" again! (Score:3, Funny)
This is great news for OOo.
Mod parent +1 Insighful (Score:2)
It's not so good for OOo. per se, but the whole FOSS movement indirectly benefits as the market differentation smooths out. IOW, if the only alternative is MS, it's much easier to
Guess I can delete it now (Score:2)
Re:Guess I can delete it now (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Guess I can delete it now (Score:2)
With a couple of exceptions (Entourage and WiMP; the latter done exceedingly badly), I've never heard of a Microsoft product originally designed for Windows being brought to Macintosh.
The above notwithstanding, I think the only reason Macintosh has Office available at all is that its component applications either were developed for Macintosh years before there was a viable Windows, or were purchased Mac-only products (PowerPoint from ForeThought; Virtual PC from Conn
Good Riddance (Score:3, Insightful)
Virtually all functions of LotusNotes are better served by other technologies, like the classic Apache/PHP/SQL combos etc. (Keep in mind that LotusNotes evolved in parallel with the WWW but most corporations were completely unaware of HTTP until Microsoft "discovered" it)
It is quite amusing to me that someone would proudly take credit for the creation of that monster. I think it goes to show tha there is no such thing as bad publicity for self-promoting "geniuses" ....
Re:Good Riddance (Score:4, Insightful)
This concludes the test of how many of Slashdotters actually ever saw LotusNotes... obviously none with mod points.
Re:wrong! (Score:2)
Re:Good Riddance (Score:4, Insightful)
Lotus Notes- Bad/Good (Score:4, Interesting)
M$'s "Exchange" isn't a centralized solution per se- it depends on all the other M$ crap working together. Notes can stand alone, and IT RUNS ON Linux ! [lotus.com]
I hope IBM Keeps maintaining Notes, but I have an ugly feeling that they're going to let it obsolete and be replaced with... a general mess of loosely cooperative stuff that /. ers will just loove making tons of money playing with. Oh well.
PS- I don't think you're a troll- you just suffered with bad implementations, like everyone else. You know the drill- you can write spaghetti code in any language [slashdot.org]
Re:Lotus Notes- Bad/Good (Score:2)
Oh believe me, I am the last person to defend Microsoft here. But my experience with Notes is so abysmal that even Microsoft junk looks appealing in comparative terms.
you just suffered with bad implementations, like everyone else.
Well, the problem is that Notes for some reason makes bad implementation attractive, they come somehow natural to it and thus vast majority are a nightmare. Or at least that
You know nothing of what you speak! (Score:5, Insightful)
Just Goes To Show (Score:2)
Offer somebody some money and a stupid title and they'll pimp out their mothers.
Anybody betting Ozzie won't last a year at Microsoft?
Re:Just Goes To Show (Score:2)
I have used Lotus Notes, just briefly, and can say it is by far the worst mission-critical application I have ever used. So perhaps this deal gives Microsoft haters have something to be optimistic about.
MS-centricity can only get worse (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:MS-centricity can only get worse (Score:2)
Mentioned at ZDNet too... (Score:2)
The New CTO is the big acquisition... (Score:5, Insightful)
This article has more to do with Microsoft continuing to build an impressive array of innovators and visionaries to carry the company for another 20 years. If they happen to integrate a few of his company's technologies into the current Office suite, that's just a bonus.
Re:The New CTO is the big acquisition... (Score:2)
Knowing when to quit (Score:2)
On the other hand, I think this sale shows that Ray Ozzy's main interest is in satisfying Ray Ozzy. A title is just a title; will Ray have real power and
Re:The New CTO is the big acquisition... (Score:2)
Re:The New CTO is the big acquisition... (Score:2)
He is responsible for the creation of Lotus Notes,
You said that like it was a good thing. Have you noticed the split between people who have _not_ used it, who assume it's good because it's not M$, and the people who _have_ used it and hate it?
I can't easily and briefly sum up what's unpleasant about using Notes, but that's not because it's hard to express per se -- it's just impossible to know where to begin.
Re:The New CTO is the big acquisition... (Score:2)
Re:The New CTO is the big acquisition... (Score:2, Interesting)
Will they merge this into office? (Score:2)
I have seen many treads relating to office features being minimal, and releases being very few. Maybe this would be a new release with a outlook/word/lotus notes mirgration.
Who knows (note I havent kept up with lotus notes in about 5 years) maybe with the migration of those 3 items they would be able to create a very nice system for communication as well as sharing documents accross offices etc etc.
But then agai
What direction? (Score:3, Funny)
"Dude, you're going to hell."
Here's your handbasket.
what direction Groove takes now. (Score:3, Funny)
Toilets outlets are always shaped that way to keep the stink down.
Just another weak collaboration tool (Score:2, Interesting)
One groupware "tool" for developers that I have been really happy with is http://readyset.tigris.org/ [tigris.org].
Interesting New Directions (Score:2, Insightful)
No it won't. We all know what direction Groove will take now.
I knew this, but I can't do it (Score:2, Insightful)
2) wait for one or the other to purchase your company to control said compatablity functionality
Simple, yet genius. Although, once again, I am probably wrong.
MS buy-out was the plan from day one (Score:3, Insightful)
Microsoft bought who? (Score:2)
Grove is... (Score:2)
Nobody uses it now since we got online a simple phpGroupware. You see, Groove isn't web.
But it's a very powerful tool for working in team, specially if some members are teleworking.
Groove, solution looking for a problem (Score:3, Interesting)
Boy oh boy are they asking for trouble (Score:5, Insightful)
for those who want to know what Ray built in Notes (Score:2, Insightful)
Groove is dead.... All is dead.... (Score:2, Insightful)
Groove, if any elements of it remains, is pretty much done in for, like microsoft swooping in like a cloud of locusts, consuming everything and moving on.
With all the resources at microsoft's disposal, why is it easier to buy out other technolo
No Open Source Groove-Like Software? (Score:2)
Microsoft has owned... (Score:5, Informative)
I'm a long-time Groove user and have dabbled in component development for a little over a year. Until recently, Groove had a
I think the product could use a bit more maturity, but I think it's got some great potential. Ownership by Microsoft, I believe, will just strengthen their marketshare. Hopefully they won't lose any of their good points.
Love/hate (Score:4, Informative)
groove is DOPE (Score:2)
Maybe this will help Outlook/Exchange suck less... (Score:2)
So if this will end up helping improve those in any way, I'm in favor of it
This should have a positive impact on Security (Score:3, Interesting)
It's still the most transparent and easy-to-use email security system available (note, easy to use != easy to administer). You never even think about it, once your preferences are set, emails just get encrypted and decrypted, signed and signatures verified, automatically.
Same thing with Groove products.
Let's see what he can do at Microsoft.
Horribly selfish perspective (Score:3, Funny)
Other than that, it's really not too big a deal in my eyes. Microsoft's been pumping money into Groove for a few years now, and Groove has been putting all their development efforts into Windows for a long time (it was originally supposed to be a multiplatform product). Maybe Groove will become more than a niche product now?
Re:Pardon my ignorance..... (Score:5, Insightful)
Think
It's the kind of turn-key integration that will take quite a while longer to realize using FOSS.
Truly, the pieces are all there, but getting them all to work as smoothly is non-trivial.
Re:Hello DOJ? Are you people asleep? WAKETF UP! (Score:2, Troll)
Re:Hello DOJ? Are you people asleep? WAKETF UP! (Score:2)
Re:Hello DOJ? Are you people asleep? WAKETF UP! (Score:2)
Re:Hello DOJ? Are you people asleep? WAKETF UP! (Score:2)
Re:Hello DOJ? Are you people asleep? WAKETF UP! (Score:2)
The W administration deflated the antitrust case; if Gore had been appointed President, MS would have been broken up.
Re:Hello DOJ? Are you people asleep? WAKETF UP! (Score:2)
I really don't believe that one at all, to be honest with you.
Re:Zounds! (Score:2)