MySQL Uses Microsoft's Open Source Software 117
EqualSlash writes "The Windows installer for the upcoming MySQL 4.1 release will be built using Microsoft's first ever open source project - Windows Installer XML toolset(Wix). According to an InternetNews report, they are using Wix to convert the MSI file designed using InstallShield into XML to achieve greater control over the installer. Of course, they are simply using it because it's Open Source (CPL license) and in good faith. Earlier this year, when Microsoft surprised everybody by releasing the Wix project under an open source license, some were cautious about using it, as the specific XML schema it uses might be patented just like the Office xml schema. Whatever.. Rob Mensching, Wix's lead developer, is very happy about MySQL choosing to use Wix for their installer."
Good news, I guess (Score:5, Insightful)
Someone open-sourcing something causes more people to use it?!?!?
If it weren't for the fact that this is MS's open source creation being used, this would not be news.
In any case, kudos to MySQL for taking the first step with Wix and to Microsoft for trying something they have otherwise sworn against.
Hopefully more people will use Wix, and most importantly, will modify it and contribute changes. That would be a nice way of showing MS just what open source can offer, something which everyone else seems to have figured out already.
Re:Good news, I guess (Score:4, Informative)
No, it's closer to, "Open-source something causes already open-source-centric people to use it." Also keep in mind that WiX is just a wrapper on top of Microsoft's proprietary Windows Installer bits. Therefore, while you can modify the syntax supported by WiX because that part is open, you can't change core functionality of the installer software (that part is not open).
Microsoft is not against open source. They've used BSD-licensed software, and more than WiX has been released under an open source license. What Microsoft has "sworn against" is "Free Software" as RMS would call it, or to the rest of us, software using the GPL or other "viral" license.
Re:Good news, I guess (Score:3, Insightful)
Microsoft is not against open source. They've used BSD-licensed software, and more than WiX has been released under an open source license. What Microsoft has "sworn against" is "Free Software" as RMS would call it, or to the rest of us, software using the GPL or other "viral" license.
To be more specific, they're against software taht can't be incorporated into their software and then resold with impunity.
Re:Good news, I guess (Score:3, Informative)
Yet Microsoft includes GNU/GPL [microsoft.com]utilities incorporated within their Services For Unix product that has been both sold and given away over the years. With impunity.
Re:Good news, I guess (Score:3, Funny)
Yet Microsoft includes GNU/GPL utilities incorporated within their Services For Unix product that has been both sold and given away over the years. With impunity.
By incorporated, I mean using the source as part of a product, not bundling existing programs and distributing them.
Re:Good news, I guess (Score:2)
The 'viral license' meme is deviously subtle, because it implies that there are licenses that are non-viral; the only non-virally-licensed software is public domain. If you license your software in a way that permits me to release derivative works, and if your soft
Re:Good news, I guess (Score:2)
Re:Good news, I guess (Score:1)
Maybe not directly but they will make money from all the PowerPC licences...
A lot of embedded systems out there are using PowerPCs and running Linux. IMHO, helping Linux will indirectly help sales of PowerPCs.
Helping Linux also sell Apple a bit more, and they seem to use the odd PowerPC here and there, apparently. (Mac OS X not being too far divorced from Linux and now having a lot of code that can be ported
As long as it's such an unessential.. (Score:5, Insightful)
Simply because the whole MySQL project can't be taken down by MS even though they're using Wix. It's not important enough for the project's life, that's it!
Re:As long as it's such an unessential.. (Score:2)
Configure [linux.no] was originally written by Raymond Chen [asp.net]...
Interesting....
Re:I'd rather they not use it (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:I'd rather they not use it (Score:3, Interesting)
Besides, M$ doesn't really give a damn about embracing Open Source - what they care about is if it is possible to look like they're playing nice with their perceived biggest and keep on making money at the same time.
All MySQL's use of this does is allow them to point and say "Look, we're good guys now - if we weren't wh
Re:I'd rather they not use it (Score:1)
an Anonymous Coward.
Re:I'd rather they not use it (Score:3, Informative)
Because there are much better alternatives like NSIS [sf.net] or the many others. Plus, who wants to require freaking runtime to install software.
Re:I'd rather they not use it (Score:5, Informative)
but that's their call. Surely, there must be other alternatives than using something from M$. It's an installer - can't they use Nullsoft or something else?
MSIs allow for easy installation of programs across entire Active Directory networks. Sure, you can do this with scripts and silent installs, but MSIs let you do interesting things like per-user installs that migrate to computers with their profiles. A good example of this is TortoiseSVN [tigris.org], which I can install only for myself on a computer on an AD network, and when I go to another lab computer and logon it'll automatically install and yet still be visible to only me.
There's also a Firefox bug that's requesting an MSI installation option (but I forget the URL). IIRC someone built an MSI package using WiX, and several people have stated that an MSI package is imperative for corporate deployment of Firefox.
So yeah, there are alternatives, but using MSIs do make things easier for some people, me included.
Re:I'd rather they not use it (Score:2)
Unless... (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Unless... (Score:2)
Re:Unless... (Score:2)
I know I could probably look this up, but through many experiences in the past, I've learned that the docs often don't match real world realities.
Re:Unless... (Score:1, Informative)
Re:Unless... (Score:2)
Re:I'd rather they not use it (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:I'd rather they not use it (Score:2)
I don't think I'm the only one with mysql install problems either. People I know buy a MySQL book, only to give up on the whole database because getting started is too complicated.
Re:I'd rather they not use it (Score:2)
Second, I doubt that even debian would get the MYSQL to install correctly, and even if they did, it would be 4 versions behind. Not exactly what you want on your webserver.
Re:I'd rather they not use it (Score:2)
Re:I'd rather they not use it (Score:2)
Installing MySQL has never been more work to me than installing a
And just for your information, Debian unstable has MySQL 4.0.21 (currently the newest stable version available).
I see that Slashdot is changing (Score:2)
I get modded Troll twice in as many posts for questioning Microsoft's motives and for using M$ as a nickname.
After so many complaints about Slashdot being a Linux-lovers-only site? It looks like people can change, after all.
But, here my position - like it or not. I call it the way I see it and I've devoted far too many hours to scrutinizing M$ tactics over the last 9 years. I've also reasearched their company history , going back to their early days, although I'm not claiming expert knowledge.
When I s
Re:I see that Slashdot is changing (Score:2)
As for all the Windows installer hubbub, who really cares? It doesn't change anything for those in the non-Windows world, while making life easier for those who haven't made the transition yet.
Of course, then there's the problem
Re:I see that Slashdot is changing (Score:2)
I'm posting this from a brand new Athlon XP 2600+ that, for some reason, refuses to run Windows.
I've tried Win XP sp1 (slipstreamed), WinXP pro, Win
2K Adv. Server and, even if I can get one of them installed, it's BSOD, lockups and weird-ass error messages in a very short time - PFN_LIST_CORRUPT,
BAD_POOL_HEADER, IRQL_LESS_OR_EQUAL, and others.
A couple of these occurred while trying a clean installed on a
Re:I see that Slashdot is changing (Score:3, Informative)
I think it is out-of-spec ram, memtest results and Mandrake notwithstanding.
I suspect that it is an interaction between the memory and the graphics card which is exposed by features used by the windows drivers but not used by the mandrake drivers.
Hope this helps.
Re:I see that Slashdot is changing (Score:2)
Further testing found that the RAM couldn't perform at its rated speed so I changed the CAS latency which fixed the problem.
Now, I have to take the machine back to the store to convince them to give me a new memory module.
This should be fun.
Re:I see that Slashdot is changing (Score:2)
Now we've standardized on the el-cheapo motherboards (you know, the ones with the built-in cpus) - they work with verything, never complain, offer decent price/performance, and, oddly enough, last as long or longer than name-brand
And; like an ugly girlfriend, when it finally leaves, who cares?.
Re:I see that Slashdot is changing (Score:3, Interesting)
However, anything I've recently written about Microsoft has been modded Troll or Flamebait, very quickly. I suspect that there are shills doing searches on well-known nicknames like M$ or Micro$shit - I only ever use the former although I have referred to posters who have bashed non-MS OSes unfairly as Micro$ofties, or
Lets hear it for common sense (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Lets hear it for common sense (Score:1)
Re:Lets hear it for common sense (Score:2)
Great news (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Great news (Score:5, Informative)
WiX is not the installer. WiX is an XML schema and processor that let's you more easily build MSI installers. There's nothing stopping you from looking up the documentation on the Windows Installer [microsoft.com] at MSDN and building your own MSI programmatically, or building your own WiX-like processor, or whatever you want. The Windows Installer SDK is part of the Platform SDK, and I'm pretty sure that linking against base platform libraries is allowed even by the GPL (it's one of those things that's frowned upon, but allowed because otherwise you could only write GPL software to run on Linux or HURD).
Also, Nullsoft's NSIS [sourceforge.net] (I still think they should've carried on the PiMP/SuperPiMP naming, rather than getting all "professional") has been open source and available for years. It doesn't compile down to an MSI installer, but Nullsoft's own format, and the language and installer is pretty powerful. MSIs give you some pretty cool and powerful abilities that you can't do from NSIS, but 90% of all installers don't need much more than the ability to decompress some files, copy them around, and write some regkeys.
Re:Great news (Score:2)
I expect a major tantrum when Bill finds out about this!
WiX problem (Score:3, Interesting)
It looks neat but there's no way to find out the complex stuff without generating an xml from an msi or something.
Re:WiX problem (Score:5, Funny)
it's open source, duh!
Re:WiX problem (Score:3, Insightful)
I remember a video from a presentation where it was mentioned that the doc's are being worked on, but as long as they aren't available I won't use the thing.
Re:WiX problem (Score:1)
Re:WiX problem (Score:4, Informative)
Re:WiX problem (Score:2)
It looks as if MakeMSI offers what i was looking for in WiX, and it offers it right now
Re:WiX problem (Score:4, Funny)
*ROTFL*[1]
[1] The sound of x+1 Germans falling off their chairs and bouncing around.
Re:WiX problem (Score:2)
B) Have an attempt at making a dutch post so I can have a laugh.
I don't see the joke in the fact that most of the world is NOT AMERICAN or a native english speaker
Re:WiX problem (Score:1)
Re:WiX problem (Score:2)
Re:WiX problem (Score:3, Informative)
Re:WiX problem (Score:2)
hilarious indeed
Re:So..... (Score:2)
So it keeps people tied to Windows.
Embrace, extend, and then extinct Micro$oft. (Score:1)
That is what they would like to do, so not do it back to them?
http://news.zdnet.com/2100-9588_22-5388831.html
http://asia.cnet.com/news/personaltech/printfrie nd ly.htm?AT=39195806-39037091t-39000004c
Critical programs like OpenOffice will help accomplish this.
http://www.openoffice.org/contributing/donate.ht ml
Other apps like WINE will help as well.
http://www.winehq.com/
-Steve
I am a FreeNet supporter!
http://freenet.sourceforge.net/
Re:So..... (Score:2)
Not the first? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Not the first? (Score:3, Informative)
Next step... (Score:5, Funny)
Replacing MSSql with MySQL (Score:2)
You really have no clue, do you?
Re:Next step... (Score:2)
Software packaging underrated (Score:5, Informative)
Apache already does release an MSI format package, maybe they, too, could convert to WiX.
And then, there's only PHP left, that should come in an MSI file, and all would be fine.
OSS programmers should realize how important the installation package is. Because with an intelligent enough package (MSIs for Win32, debs for Debian etc), it's no longer simply copying and possibly files, but real Software Management. This is going to open doors to the large companies.
And yes, I know, MSI is a Microsoft idea, but it does make sense. Any large customer nowadays wants all the software to be re-packaged in MSI format (hell, repackaging Oracle Client sucks, you can believe me!).
Re:Software packaging underrated (Score:3, Interesting)
Sort of a tangent, but I want to send a large "BAH!" to Oracle on behalf of everyone who has to deal with their buggy software. Any software on any OS which cannot properly deal with spaces in filenames is horribly broken in my book. After seeing the awfulness that is the "Oracle Installer" I wonder why anyone thinks their database is so hot.
Re:Software packaging underrated (Score:2)
Or, like so much other Open Source software, you could package a build and contribute it back to the PHP project.
Now I'm worried . . . (Score:4, Insightful)
Is this the first step of MS trying to get into open source and become a major player? Microsoft has never been an innovator, but they are really good at stealing someone else's idea and business model (e.g. netscape, realplayer, etc., etc.) . . .perhaps they will foray into the "give the open source software away for free and sell the services and maintenance" business model. I'm sure that they won't do this for their core products . . . but for other things . . . like development tools or less popular products . . . maybe?
Re:Now I'm worried . . . (Score:2, Interesting)
Sure its MS and they're evil in some way but remember, they aren't SCO
Re:Patents in this kind of case? (Score:4, Insightful)
If Microsoft were to release the project under a OSS license and then nail a competitor that uses it for patent infringement, couldn't the competitor nail them for antitrust violations?
All this blahblah about Microsoft's patent portfolio would be more convincing if we had at least one recent case of them using patents to shut down independent open source development teams. As it is, I get the feeling I'm listening to Chicken Little on the future of celestial disasters.
Re:Patents in this kind of case? (Score:3, Informative)
I don't think so . . . assuming MS's open source license is truly open source by the definition that I think most people at /. beleive in, there would be no antitrust issue. Just a patent and license issue.
Antitrust issues are typically abuses of monopolistic or nearly monopolistic market power. Opensourcing a patented t
Re:Patents in this kind of case? (Score:1)
Re:Isn't this in violation of MS own EULA (Score:2)
They don't need to license it to themselves, as they own all rights to it, so they don't need to abide by any EULA for their own stuff. They can do and make whatever the heck they want with it.
I know, it could also be argued that EU's don't have to abide by any EULA, either, but that's an argument for another thread.....
Re:Isn't this in violation of MS own EULA (Score:2)
I believe what they were afraid of was people mistakenly believing the SDK was under the license of the software it was being redistributed with. I think they backed down after taking a LOT of heat over it.
Encouraging developments..... (Score:4, Insightful)
I don't like Microsoft but they will stop being hated so much when they transition themselves from a company that expects to create standards to one that merely contributes to them.
IBM learned that lesson and geeks love them now but they were the Microsoft of their day.
As long as MySQL stays MySQL who cares? Maybe Microsoft will FINALLY have a true understanding of what open source is now. (Probably not though...)
Re:Encouraging developments..... (Score:1)
PostgreSQL (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Patents in this kind of case? (Score:4, Informative)
It is this patent waver as a requirement for distributing the software that makes the CPL incompatible with the GPL as it imposes additional restrictions on redistribution over the GPL. However I understand that the FSF is considering putting in a patent clause in the next version of the GPL which would both make the CPL compatible with the GPL and restrict possible patent abuse.
Re:Patents in this kind of case? (Score:3, Interesting)
Not sure how the FSF will proceed here. The comments they sent me regarding the Sveasoft abuses of the GPL implied that they did not consider a license that virally applies contract terms to be valid. I.e. they would not be able to enforce a li
Windows Centric (Score:3, Interesting)
Wouldnt it be better just to use a single installer for everything?
I know there are commercial ones ( like installanywhere ) and im sure there are opensourced ones.. If not, then perhaps its time for one.
Re:Windows Centric (Score:2)
Because operating systems work differently? POS installers are a reason most shareware/freeware/open source windows software has so many problems
Re:Windows Centric (Score:3, Interesting)
This would be perfect for Mozilla Firefox, too! (Score:5, Interesting)
In fact, after doing a quick search it looks like someone's already done it (don't know if it uses WiX, though it is mentioned in the Bugzilla listing):
http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?t=138
Superb! Finally a way to get rid of IE from the corporate desktops
The meaning of Wix in german... (Score:3, Funny)
About the license... (Score:3, Insightful)
Could using parts of microsofts open source offerings (in some cases) act as a double whammy against possible patent suits in the future? They aint gonna sue project (X) if it means project (Y) which they quite like might be affected etc.
If projects like MySQL are making the decision to use WiX it might be nice if their products used the same installer no matter which operating system is select as the base.
Nick
Re:About the license... (Score:2, Informative)
The installer itself is a closed-source service for Windows only.
Re:About the license... (Score:2)
Nick...
Wix.. (Score:1, Funny)
Well, that's it then... (Score:1)
I don't care that it's open sourced. It's microsoft. I'll be moving my databases to pgsql just as soon as it's technically feasible.