Obama, McCain Campaigns Both Hacked, Files Compromised

dunezone writes "As the election ends, news is coming out from both campaigns on what happened behind closed doors. During the summer, the Obama campaign had their systems hacked, but so did McCain — and not by each other, but by a third party. '... both the FBI and the Secret Service came to the campaign with an ominous warning: "You have a problem way bigger than what you understand," an agent told Obama's team. "You have been compromised, and a serious amount of files have been loaded off your system." The following day, Obama campaign chief David Plouffe heard from White House chief of staff Josh Bolten, to the same effect: "You have a real problem ... and you have to deal with it." The Feds told Obama's aides in late August that the McCain campaign's computer system had been similarly compromised.'" Also from the article: "Officials at the FBI and the White House told the Obama campaign that they believed a foreign entity or organization sought to gather information on the evolution of both camps' policy positions — information that might be useful in negotiations with a future administration."

Or it coult just be /b/tards having a bit of fun

[jaxtherat (1165473)]

I guess we'll find out soon enough.

Re:Or it coult just be /b/tards having a bit of fu

[Chris Burke (6130)]

My bet is someone trying to get a leg up in their Fantasy U.S. Elections league.

Re:Or it coult just be /b/tards having a bit of fu

[liquidpele (663430)]

I doubt it was anonymous. Basically a bunch of script kiddies.

More likely, it was what always seems to happen:
1) Bot-herder realizes one of his bots is in a valuable location.
2) Bot-herder sells control of the machine online, usually to the Chinese
3) Buyer then uses the machine to either get information or further hack into said organization.

Re:Or it coult just be /b/tards having a bit of fu

[jaxtherat (1165473)]

I doubt it was anonymous. Basically a bunch of script kiddies.

There are plenty of script kiddies that just call themselves anonymous, so the line is very blurry these days.

Re:Or it coult just be /b/tards having a bit of fu

[Fred Ferrigno (122319)]

Anonymous is just the 4chan equivalent of Anonymous Coward. It's not supposed to be a group or an identity. Some of them just decided "We Are Anonymous" sounded cool, but they were using the word in a completely literal sense.

Is that all? The IntarTubes have a solution!

[AKAImBatman (238306)]

Officials at the FBI and the White House told the Obama campaign that they believed a foreign entity or organization sought to gather information on the evolution of both camps' policy positions

Is that all they're after? Pff. The Internet Archive [archive.org] already lets me do that. And if that's too much work, the candidates have already done the graphical diffs [versionista.com] for us!

/tongue in cheek

Re:Is that all? The IntarTubes have a solution!

[Bill, Shooter of Bul (629286)]

No, not the fake ones they publish. The secret ones they don't publish. The plans for world domination. The ones containing the election script written two years ago by the Illuminati's dictator for life: Ron Paul.

Re:Is that all? The IntarTubes have a solution!

[illumin8 (148082)]

Did anyone read the rest of the article? I find it hilarious that Caribou Barbie went on an even bigger shopping spree than previously reported:

NEWSWEEK has also learned that Palin's shopping spree at high-end department stores was more extensive than previously reported. While publicly supporting Palin, McCain's top advisers privately fumed at what they regarded as her outrageous profligacy. One senior aide said that Nicolle Wallace had told Palin to buy three suits for the convention and hire a stylist. But instead, the vice presidential nominee began buying for herself and her family--clothes and accessories from top stores such as Saks Fifth Avenue and Neiman Marcus.

Wait, it gets better:

According to two knowledgeable sources, a vast majority of the clothes were bought by a wealthy donor, who was shocked when he got the bill. Palin also used low-level staffers to buy some of the clothes on their credit cards. The McCain campaign found out last week when the aides sought reimbursement. One aide estimated that she spent "tens of thousands" more than the reported $150,000, and that $20,000 to $40,000 went to buy clothes for her husband. Some articles of clothing have apparently been lost. An angry aide characterized the shopping spree as "Wasilla hillbillies looting Neiman Marcus from coast to coast," and said the truth will eventually come out when the Republican Party audits its books.

I am so glad we won't be hearing from her at least until 2012 or so... Corruption in Alaska? You betcha!

Re:Is that all? The IntarTubes have a solution!

[dpilot (134227)]

> Corruption in Alaska? You betcha!

According to my brother, even with such corruptions as she's shown, Sarah Palin is a breath of fresh air compared to politics as usual in Alaska.

And he is by no means a Sarah Palin fan, quite the opposite.

Re:Is that all? The IntarTubes have a solution!

[jamienk (62492)]

>>I am so glad we won't be hearing from her at least until 2012 or so...

Ted Stevens gets re-elected; then he resigns (or is kicked out of the Senate by 2/3rds); then there will be a special election in Alaska for Senate and Palin will most likely win. She plans this already. When she found out about Stevens she said (paraphrase) "He should leave the Senate. Even if he is re-elected, he should then resign." So we will most likely see her in the Senate for the next 4 years or so. The question is: will she be like Liddy Dole who people thought was an up-and-comer but who turned out to be a drag, or like Hillary who was a massively divisive figure but who used the Senate to grow to become liked by a broad spectrum of people.

"Caribou Barbie"? That's insulting.

[commodoresloat (172735)]

Her proper nickname is "Bible Spice".

Error in summary

[by Anonymous Coward]

they believed a foreign entity or organization sought to gather information on the evolution of both camps' policy positions--information that might be useful in negotiations with a future administration."

"they believed a foreign entity or organization sought to gather information on the evolution of both camps' policy positions--information that would be entirely useless once the winner back pedals on all campaign promises made."

Fixed that for them.

Re:Error in summary

[khallow (566160)]

Nonsense. The information is valuable for other reasons. It gives a third party information on who the candidate keeps around them and hints about how the candidate and his advisors think. Among other things, that'll help in future negotiations with the administration. And it'll provide avenues for social engineering. They may have obtained vetting information. And further will have some idea who to target for various espionage operations, say if someone wishes to blackmail or bribe.

Re:Error in summary

[myz24 (256948)]

Because eventually people have to get work done

Re:Error in summary

[Ocker3 (1232550)]

Because they were promised by the vendor that the security was flawless and they believed them?

Future Blackmail Protection

[Shadow Wrought (586631)]

Remember kids, always have some photos of you and Chuthulu parktaking in ancient, evil rites so the perpetrator knows exactly what their "reward" will be.

Both campaigns were hacked?

[xactuary (746078)]

Proof that Fox News REALLY IS fair and balanced!

Third party

[hansamurai (907719)]

During the summer the Obama campaign had their systems hacked, but so did McCain - and not by each other but a third party.

Bob Barr or Cynthia McKinney?

Wait, both?! But I thought...

[mattytee (1395955)]

...Carly Fiorina worked on McCain's campaign.

Insight into Pragmatism

[DigitalisAkujin (846133)]

I particularly love this insight:
The debates unnerved both candidates. When he was preparing for them during the Democratic primaries, Obama was recorded saying, "I don't consider this to be a good format for me, which makes me more cautious. I often find myself trapped by the questions and thinking to myself, 'You know, this is a stupid question, but let me ⦠answer it.' So when Brian Williams is asking me about what's a personal thing that you've done [that's green], and I say, you know, 'Well, I planted a bunch of trees.' And he says, 'I'm talking about personal.' What I'm thinking in my head is, 'Well, the truth is, Brian, we can't solve global warming because I f---ing changed light bulbs in my house. It's because of something collective'."

Could you have imagined Obama saying that during the election? heh

Re:Insight into Pragmatism

[by Anonymous Coward]

> Could you have imagined Obama saying that during the election?

No... but he just went up in my estimation having read that.

Re:Insight into Pragmatism

[slimjim8094 (941042)]

I wouldn't mind a pragmatic president. Perhaps that's because I'm a pragmatic guy...

I have a lot of respect for somebody like Joe Biden that says whatever he thinks, because we get a much better insight into he really is.

And that quote is fucking amazing. He said essentially that a couple times, but slightly cleaned up, for what it's worth.

Re:Insight into Pragmatism

[Artuir (1226648)]

To be frank, I wish he would have said that during the election. The man is smart.

The thing that irritates me the most about this election is we've got so many political parrots out there that just repeat misquotes like idiots. It's amazing how ignorant the country is and how little research is actually done for people to make a decision this important. What a dangerous position to be in.

Re:

[AxemRed (755470)]

I didn't vote for either McCain or Obama. However, if Obama would have said that, I would have voted for him.

It's worse than I'd feared...

[Overzeetop (214511)]

Obama seems to have somehow slipped through the vetting process. It's common knowledge that politicians should not have an independently functioning brain with an ability to grasp the overall picture. Did no one interview this guy to make sure he could be swayed by a $600/hr lobbiest in an expensive suit, or by advisers with hidden agendas? This, my fellow Americans, can lead to no good outcomes. Applying common sense and logic in this fashion will surely grind Washington D.C. to a halt.

Mark my words...this fool will be making decisions which will utterly confound both major parties. The only thing I can't determine is whether they'll strip his flesh like a school of piranhas or end up following him off the cliff of common sense. :-)

Nothing to see here

[Locke2005 (849178)]

I volunteered to work on a Senate campaign. I was shocked to learn their headquarters was using an open wireless access point, but handing out WEP keys to hundreds of volunteers bringing their own laptops would have been unmanagable. Plus, you wouldn't even need to hack the network from the outside -- literally anyone can volunteer and gain access to their servers. Most of the data is just donor and supporter lists anyway; it's not like it does a candidate any good to keep their platform a secret! Since thousands of unvetted volunteers had access to the candidate's networks, I certainly hope they used a rule that no data should be placed on the campaign servers that you wouldn't want to see leaked to the newspapers the next day anyway. And everybody already knows if you're going to do something that is possibly unethical or unlawful, you NEVER mention it in email! I very much doubt you could find any information on McCain's or Obama's campaign computers that would be useful to anyone after the election.

Re:Nothing to see here

[worthawholebean (1204708)]

Having worked on the Obama campaign, mostly with the data end, I have to say they did a really good job. There are a few things that could have been improved, sure, but overall the system scaled very well until the last few days when the load became just ridiculous. Even then, it only displayed minor misbehavior - it worked just as quickly as before. The vast majority of volunteers have read/limited write access to volunteer and voter lists. I don't believe I had access to any donor information. The fact is, below the upper echelons, a data leak is really, really insignificant, because the data is essentially publicly available anyway. We got all the starting information for our database from the DNC, which got it from voter rolls. I'm assuming here they don't store credit card numbers from donations, etc.

Re:Nothing to see here

[Locke2005 (849178)]

Credit card numbers were handled very carefully; a paid staffer processed the donation first, then very carefully obscured the numbers with a black marker before handing off the form to data entry. We did have access to name, address, and amount donated information for all supporters, but like you said, that is a matter of public record -- we had the same information for the competitor's donors (and yes, several people donated to both candidates). There is a huge amount of data there (e.g. the voter registration data of everyone in the state), but other than getting a press release a few hours before it's made public, I really don't think any of the information is particularly valuable to anyone else.

Possible Answers

[lymond01 (314120)]

When posed the question of how one might respond to cyberattacks on their own websites, the following responses were gathered:

McCain: My friends, I've been around the block a few times. I know what it's like to be hacked. I know what it's like to be crippled, to be seized by foreign powers and pried for information. My friends, I've been there, not 30 years ago I was......Internet? What's that now? Oh, like the tubes...

Obama: There is no classified data on those servers. There never was. I will not hide information from the people of America. I will not hide my concerns from foreign powers. We are a nation built on freedom and that includes freedom of information. If they want to know our bathroom schedules, we will let them know. Yes we can. If they want to know where I park my car in the afternoon, I will tell them. Yes we can. If they want to know the route my daughter takes to school...

Palin: Dog gone it, how am I going to know when my next hair appointment is? Oh, it's still there? But you said they stole it. Could we go back to the part just after, "You're my vice presidential choice"? I've been a little confused since then.

Stevens: You ask me if they'll get away with this? I'll tell you. "NO!!"

Bush: Thank Christ the Lord I am done with this job. Next question...

So?

[geekoid (135745)]

Seriously, what information do they have?
National secrets? Launch codes? Pictures of Britney's crotch?

Yeah, advise them to lock down their system, but for crying out loud, stop acting like every computer breach and tress[pass is the end of the civilized world.

er..

[savuporo (658486)]

Why would a guy who is just learning to get online, himself, care ?

how dangerous!

[jollyreaper (513215)]

It's a good thing McCain doesn't know how to use a computer!

Gee, which "foreign entity" could they mean?

[stevegee58 (1179505)]

95% of the unauthorized http accesses and port scans to my PC at home are from China. Go figure.

This wouldn't be a problem if. . .

[mosb1000 (710161)]

This wouldn't be a problem if our political system did not practically require politicians to keep secrets and lie through their teeth.

Re:Who....

[Ethanol-fueled (1125189)]

Our adversaries(even though China and Russia are technically our "allies") aren't the only ones who seek to gain from inside knowledge of foreign policy plans.

Israel [wrmea.com] is a good example but there are many others. Somebody hurry up and post other examples before some mods with sticky trigger fingers see this and mod me down for being a "racist Jew-hater".

Re:Who....

[Fluffeh (1273756)]

Pffft, before you go jumping up on all the other countries who would want this info, given the current foreign policy of the US, I wouldn't at all be surprised it they weren't both hacked by inside sources - just to make them THINK it was another country "wanting to invade the proud US of A".

I mean seriously, all those paranoid big chiefs sitting in powerful seats within government organizations? They have careers to protect. Why not make whoever gets into power fearful of the "outside world and it's dangers" before they even get into office? Sure would help get their policy in line with the policy of aforementioned big chiefs in government seats.

Re:Who....

[Ethanol-fueled (1125189)]

You raise a good point. Even TFS says "'... both the FBI and the Secret Service came to the campaign with an ominous warning: 'You have a problem way bigger than what you understand,' an agent told Obama's team."

The old guard have spent the past 8 years stinking drunk with money and power and now 'Bama(and, apparently, most of the common Americans) wants change. Of course, that tinfoil hat theory implies that 'Bama and the old guard are at odds and Obama would be wise to reverse his stance re: telecom immunity.

Re:Who....

[jcnnghm (538570)]

Your tinfoil hat is cutting off the circulation to your brain again.

Re:Who....

[by Anonymous Coward]

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it"

-- Aristotle

Re:

[omeomi (675045)]

In short it means that these institutions guard the campaign parties and monitor their internet.

Or it means that somebody hacked into Obama's account and tried to sell the info to the White House, and somebody else hacked into McCain's account and tried to bribe the White House...

Re:Who....

[Colonel Korn (1258968)]

Why would Obama or McCain have secret foreign policy plans in their campaign planning computers? The sensitive data here was most likely canvassing, financing, and advertising plans. They'd be very useful to the other campaign, or to a party supporting either campaign and planning to influence the election. Maybe unaffiliated but supportive organizations like those of T Boone Pickens and his democratic equivalent had this done.

Re:Who....

[commodoresloat (172735)]

To be fair, the article says the hackers were gathering "information on the evolution of both camps' policy positions", not secret foreign policy plans. But this still begs the question of your conclusion, since presumably that information is available to anyone with access to newspapers and the internet anyway. As you say, the more private version of this info might be useful to the other campaign but it's not going to be that interesting to foreign adversaries.

Re:Hopefully this inspired Obama

[Duradin (1261418)]

I don't think that having legislation enacted that cites the latest Die Hard movie as a source and has Ted "Tubes" Stevens as an adviser is a good thing.

We'll wake up one morning and hear that the cyber-terrorism meter is at paisley.

Re:Obama Apologists

[by Anonymous Coward]

Fuck it. We got him elected, he's going to have to answer for himself from now on. And I hope more people are with me on this -- especially those in the media.

The good news is, I believe that he will.

Re:Obama Apologists

[pcolaman (1208838)]

Well, he did promise to make what the White House does more transparent to the American voters. So maybe it was a pilot script for the new reality TV series, "Obama's House"

Re:Uh huh..

[TriezGamer (861238)]

I don't get the 4chan bashing -- /b/tards might be scum, but a large chunk of 4chan's userbase is quite civil, and many don't bother going to /b/.

cancer

[Reality Master 201 (578873)]

sage

Re:Wonder how the Feds found out

[cryptoluddite (658517)]

Feds: Hey you've been hacked... trust us, we know
Campaign: Um, so how do you know that?
Feds: They removed our backdoors
Campaign: Oh... right... so what are you going to do about it?
Feds: We only investigate if you reported it, but WE reported it to YOU, so YOU have to investigate it. See how that works?
Campaign: *grumble*

Sounds about right.

Re:By 3rd parties ? i dont buy it.

[Bourbonium (454366)]

Uh, you don't have to hack any websites to get information about political donors. It'a all public knowledge. The candidates are required by law to report that kind of stuff. This was required even before McCain-Feingold fucked up our political system even further with their Campaign Finance Reform Bill. If they don't file these reports, or file them late, they have to pay significant fines.

Go to the Federal Election Commission's website and review all the campaign finance reports they've filed regularly since they declared their candidacy. For an easier view of the data, you can also go to http://www.campaignmoney.com/ [campaignmoney.com] and search on your own zip code to see how much money all your neighbors contributed to the last campaign.

No hacking required.

Sigh! Incorrect

[jbeach (852844)]

Now that Obama's elected, I really do want to move on. But I am still compelled to correct misinformation about his positions.

So, I'll refrained from criticizing any conservative or GOP positions, and simply deal with what's incorrect.

1. NAFTA - that story you link to is incorrect. A couple of days after the article you cite, both the Obama campaign and - more importantly - the Canadian embassy itself declared that no such assurances were made. So either they're all lying, or the first article that you cite got it wrong.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/03/03/politics/main3898313.shtml [cbsnews.com]

2. Obama's position on coal is: We will probably need some coal as a transition away from foreign oil. But coal also comes with environmental risks, so clean coal is better than dirty coal.

That's not shifting, that's reasonable. Sometimes reality is nuanced. That's addressing different circumstances in a complex world.

3. There was and is absolutely no change in Obama's tax plans, or anywhere near it. That link you cite is not even from Obama speaking. That's Biden making a gaffe-tastic misstatement in a speech. The Obama campaign restated it's policy after Biden's misstatement - it says that in the very same article you cite.

4. As for Biden's transcribed dialogue - it seems quite clear to me. It's just transcribed from live human speech. Biden's saying "When the US and France kicked Hezbollah out of Lebanon, Barack and I wanted NATO forces moved in to fill the vacuum. Otherwise Hezbollah would walk back in."

So, in conclusion, I'd like to propose that, from this point forward, we criticize what people's actual articulated positions are, and see how their actions match up to those positions. Because, as an Obama supporter, I *want* to see Obama's positions and policies criticized from every possible angle. Both in formulation and in practice.

But let's stick with what Obama and others are actually intentionally saying (and will now be doing) - and not hearsay or misstatements. Let's concentrate on whether or not it will work, and why.

Sound good?