Stories
Slash Boxes
Comments

News for nerds, stuff that matters

Slashdot Log In

Log In

Create Account  |  Retrieve Password

Boot Record Rootkit Threatens Vista, XP, NT

Posted by kdawson on Mon Jan 07, 2008 09:41 PM
from the writing-to-zero dept.
Paul sends us word on a new exploit seen in the wild that attacks Windows systems completely outside of the control of the OS. "Unfortunately, all the Windows NT family (including Vista) still have the same security flaw — MBR [Master Boot Record] can be modified from usermode. Nevertheless, MS blocked write-access to disk sectors from userland code on VISTA after the pagefile attack, however, the first sectors of disk are still unprotected... At the end of 2007 stealth MBR rootkit was discovered by MR Team members (thanks to Tammy & MJ) and it looks like this way of affecting NT systems could be more common in near future if MBR stays unprotected."
+ -
story

Related Stories

This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.
The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
 Full
 Abbreviated
 Hidden
More
Loading... please wait.
  • Messed up (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2008, @09:54PM (#21949506)

    Unfortunately, all the Windows NT family (including Vista) still have the same flaw -- incest.
    NT and ME were siblings who married to produce XP. It doesn't help any that NT's father, 95, produced NT via a union with his daughter, 98. XP then killed NT and had a child with ME. He later gouged his GUI out. The end result of all this is Vista. And you guys wonder why Vista has security issues? Poor guy must have complex on top of complex, not to mention more than a few birth defects.
    • by o'reor (581921) on Tuesday January 08 2008, @03:52AM (#21951184) Journal

      It doesn't help any that NT's father, 95, produced NT via a union with his daughter, 98.
      Gross. Well actually, NT (going back to 3.xx) was not the daughter of W95xW98, but rather the (already) bastard child of Win3.11 who raped his mother VMS during the First War of the OS (ugly, ugly -- you don't really want to know).

      Therefore NT3.5 is W95's stepsister -- given that W95 is the legitimate heir of Win3.11. It turned out then that W95, who was a real pervert due to its dominant 16-bit gene, chkdsked his stepsister NT3.51 (they don't used words like "fscked" in that family, they have their own lingo), who begat NT4.0. Then NT4.0 and his aunt W98 both got drunk one night, and soon they gave birth to Win2K. Somehow at that point in the family tree, the 16-bit gene got culled out. But the inbreeding continues...

      • Actually, the Ur-mother of the 32-bit desktop was probably OS2. Virtually unknown today and only spoken of among a small cult who cherish the old ways. There are rumors Microsoft itself indulged in the rites of OS2 before a conversion experience.

  • by snikulin (889460) on Monday January 07 2008, @09:55PM (#21949512)
    It's not a troll. I just want to know. If I put my code to MBR and LILO loader somewhere else and then start it, will it work? I guess so.
    • Yes. That's all LILO, GRUB, NTLDR, and such do. They call the BIOS functions to read partition tables and such, load code from a specific place, and execute it.

      You could easily install LILO on the last sector of a disk (or anywhere else, just a free sector you can protect from being used). Write a little tiny program that does nothing but read that sector into memory (having known the address ahead of time, finding that code is what makes GRUB and NTLDR slightly more complex than this), and execute it. LILO would then continue having no idea what happened before it.

      Amazing little things, boot loaders. Check out the Wikipedia article on Master Boot Records [wikipedia.org]. They talk about NTLDR where until XP/2K (when it got support for non-english error messages), the code was just a scant 139 bytes.

      Read about some of them. LILO [wikipedia.org] is simple (and kind of stupid) and fits in 512 bytes. GRUB [wikipedia.org] is smarter, and works by loading more code that it finds using it's first stage (which is under 512 bytes). It's a little tiny OS that only uses BIOS calls to load another OS. That's why you can edit entires, add new ones, etc. That couldn't fit in 512 bytes (and still be useful on most computers).

        • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

          by Anonymous Coward
          No. LILO, GRUB and (joking aside) the Microsoft bootloader are not malicious (the microsoft one is stupid, but not malicious). If the 512 bytes does something else - like, oh, jump to the main part of the virus stashed in the filesystem, then it's a problem. The real craziness here is windows letting userspace write to the MBR without so much as a "uh, you sure you want to do that?". It'll pop up 50 UAC requesters asking about trivialities, but when it comes to something that can totally hose your syste
        • bootkey (Score:5, Informative)

          by Tumbleweed (3706) * on Tuesday January 08 2008, @12:27AM (#21950248) Homepage
          If a person wanted to be sure, couldn't you burn a boot loader onto a CD, have the CD boot first, and have that direct the loading? IANLWK (I am no Linux Whiz Kid), but in my imperfect knowledge of the world, that seems like it would completely defend against this type of attack. I yearn for correction of my ways if this wouldn't work.

          Or better yet, a USB key - an key that lets you start your computer. No key, no start. Faster than a CD, no moving parts, etc. Me likes.
    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      If I put my code to MBR and LILO loader somewhere else and then start it, will it work? I guess so.

      Are you root? If not then the answer is no.

      The real issue here is not whether an exploit like this would work with lilo or grub, the issue, as noted by TFA, is that "Unfortunately, all the Windows NT family (including VISTA) still have the same security flaw - MBR can be modified from usermode. Nevertheless, MS blocked write-access to disk sectors from userland code on VISTA after the pagefile attack, however,

          • by rossjudson (97786) on Tuesday January 08 2008, @03:30AM (#21951060) Homepage
            Security by arrogance. That's a new one.
          • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

            Under GNU/Linux, you typically have better educated users.

            This was true back in the day, that is, when virtually all Linux users were home-brew hacking DYIers who either loved all things CSish or hated all things M$ish and knew there were alternatives.

            You know, the gentoo and sid crowds.

            Then RedHat happened and Ubuntu happened and hell froze over and DELL and HP started shipping systems with an OS other than Windoze and what you say is no longer true.

            It's probably still true that the majority of Linux

  • Misleading... (Score:5, Informative)

    by SanityInAnarchy (655584) <ninja@slaphack.com> on Monday January 07 2008, @10:03PM (#21949562) Journal
    Alright, I get the defense in depth concept, but I don't consider it to be a severe vulnerability that the MBR is writable while Windows is running. I consider that to be a feature, one I wish Microsoft did more of -- for example, I can install Linux from a Linux LiveCD, or I can install a second copy of it on another partition, etc. As far as I can tell, OS X is similarly flexible -- it forces you to type your password, but it can deliver a firmware update from within the OS -- think equivalent to a BIOS update, so even earlier than the MBR.

    So, to clarify: It's writable from userland, which is not the same as being writable by any user. If they have Admin access (which means you already clicked a "This program wants to modify your Master Boot Record, are you sure?"), you're already screwed -- kind of like how, on Linux, if they have root, you're already screwed.

    In other words, it's possible to modify your Master Boot Record without rebooting your computer. This is a good thing.

    What's more, this is not new [wikipedia.org]. All that's new is that it's both in the wild (Blue Pill does the same thing), and that it's a rootkit (MBR Viruses have been around for a very long time now). If someone was trying to apply for a patent, you'd be jumping all over them with prior art...
    • Re:Misleading... (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Jeffrey Baker (6191) on Monday January 07 2008, @11:16PM (#21949942)
      In my admittedly limited experience, any user account can do some pretty scary stuff in Windows XP. I once was surprised to find out that I could load a firmware update onto a Plextor DVD burner using the guest account on a Windows XP machine. If you can program device firmware you can obviously subvert the entire operating system. I was appalled, and I showed it to the local Windows sysadmin, and he was appalled. It seemed to be a bit of clever programming on the part of the Plextor people, and there did not seem to be any way to defend against it.
      • Re:Misleading... (Score:5, Informative)

        by ajs318 (655362) <sd_resp2@earthshod. c o .uk> on Tuesday January 08 2008, @07:12AM (#21952272)
        Actually, with Linux, you don't need the root password. You just need physical access to the machine. Reboot it. If running LILO, enter linux init=/bin/sh ; if running GRUB, edit the boot command line and include init=/bin/sh in it somewhere. Press RETURN. When you get the # prompt, enter
        # mount -oremount / to make the disk writable
        # awk '/^root/{print}' /etc/shadow > /old_root_password to make a copy of the old scrambled root password,
        # passwd and enter a password you can remember. Twice.
        # init 6 to reboot the machine again. You can now log in as root, using the password you supplied. No need for any special weapons, boot discs &c. This is one you can carry entirely in your head.

        To restore the original root password, the sequence is
        # awk '!/^root/{print}' /etc/shadow >> /old_root_password
        # cp -f /old_root_password /etc/shadow
        # rm -f /old_root_password
        - don't use this till the last minute, because the password will be changed as soon as you modify /etc/shadow. I don't know if this works on other Unix systems.
          • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

            Yeah, there's that. Carry a boot CD (maybe with several kernels) on an actual disc (in case you can't use a USB key ..... maybe better to use a cheap MP3 player preloaded with a repetitive techno track that can be played to anyone who asks), and a minimal tool kit (screwdriver handle with interchangeable bits, needle nose pliers, wire cutters, tweezers, a few motherboard jumpers, a few known good 13 Amp plug fuses, powerfinder screwdriver ..... I'd say a cordless soldering iron, solder and a caniste
  • by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2008, @10:14PM (#21949602)
    I know I'll get flamed for saying it, but this is exactly the sort of problem that a TPM can solve.
    • The jellied gasoline salvo is on the way, with a thermite chaser.
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      Initiating flame... done!

      I know I'll get flamed for saying it, but this is exactly the sort of problem that a TPM can solve.

      And you can "solve" crime with a ubiquitous secret police, but would you want to?
  • by figleaf (672550) on Monday January 07 2008, @10:18PM (#21949620) Homepage
    ... to write to the MBR.
    For all other sectors Vista prevents writes to raw disk sectors even with admin permissions.

    Users withouts admin permissions/without elevation cannot write to the MBR in Vista.
  • by Purity Of Essence (1007601) on Monday January 07 2008, @10:26PM (#21949666)
    It's more likely than you think.

    What is this? 1986?
    • by Nimey (114278) on Monday January 07 2008, @10:37PM (#21949722) Homepage Journal
      Your computer is now stoned.
    • by Jeffrey Baker (6191) on Monday January 07 2008, @11:10PM (#21949916)
      Yeah right. Do you think the virus idiots know how to program a virus into 512 bytes these days? I've seen self-styled viruses that are carrying around msvcrt.dll. Those guys should be embarrassed.
      • by shdwtek (898320) on Monday January 07 2008, @11:32PM (#21950024)
        512 bytes should be enough for any virus.
      • by tlhIngan (30335) <slashdot@@@worf...net> on Monday January 07 2008, @11:35PM (#21950038)

        Yeah right. Do you think the virus idiots know how to program a virus into 512 bytes these days? I've seen self-styled viruses that are carrying around msvcrt.dll. Those guys should be embarrassed.


        Actually, it's a bit less. The first sector of a hard disk contains the MBR code and the partition table.

        The partition table takes 64 bytes (16 bytes x 4 entries), and there's a two-byte signature that the BIOS checks to ensure the MBR is valid.

        That gives you roughly 446 bytes of code that you can actually run. Most MBR code basically reads the partition table, finds a partition with the "active" flag set, then loads the first sector of that partition into memory. The partition loader then copies more sectors from disk so it can load the OS.

        That's why you can install GRUB and LILO into either the partition or MBR. The MBR version basically overwrites the existing MBR to always load LILO or GRUB regardless of what the partition table says. The partition version relies on the MBR code passing it control.

        Of course, having the first cylinder of a disk unused makes it convenient to stash away the extra code you need.
      • by Keruo (771880) on Tuesday January 08 2008, @12:21AM (#21950224)
        All you need is a call to certain point of disk to run the code right?
        Remember that almost all current Windows systems reserve 1-8Mb space [microsoft.com] for converting the drive to dynamic disk.
        8Mb is likely enough to run almost fullblown virtual machine, atleast versatile enough to hide beneath the "primary" os and act as a spam/ddos drone/keylogging trojan unnoticed.
        Sure, it'll eat some resources sitting there, but your average Joe/Jill won't really notice that. They just curse their damn slow computer.
  • by DigiShaman (671371) on Monday January 07 2008, @11:01PM (#21949866) Homepage
    As I know, most 3rd party motherboards offer "anti-virus" or the "write protect MBR" options. Even if available I doubt they will work when using onboard RAID features.

    Basically, you leaves these options off when installing the OS. Once you're finished, you can safely turn them on. I'm not sure how often NTFS needs access to the MBR, but I know I've never had trouble leaving these features enabled with FAT32.
    • by tlhIngan (30335) <slashdot@@@worf...net> on Monday January 07 2008, @11:42PM (#21950076)

      As I know, most 3rd party motherboards offer "anti-virus" or the "write protect MBR" options. Even if available I doubt they will work when using onboard RAID features.

      Basically, you leaves these options off when installing the OS. Once you're finished, you can safely turn them on. I'm not sure how often NTFS needs access to the MBR, but I know I've never had trouble leaving these features enabled with FAT32.


      Ah, but these things only work in two ways:

      1) The write protect only works if the OS makes a BIOS call to the MBR. The BIOS then traps this request and asks if you mean to write to the MBR. This works pretty well as most boot sector virii exist in DOS, which uses the BIOS, rather than Windows.

      2) The BIOS makes a copy of the MBR and saves it in the CMOS. On boot, it loads the boot sector as normal, and does a quick comparison (it's only 512 bytes). If it differs (because someone overwrote the MBR code, or someone changed the partition table), it asks what you want to do - restore from backup, or accept the modifications.

      No good filesystem should need the MBR once the system is booted. Other than reading the partition table. (The MBR, being 446 bytes in size, is also pretty standardized, which is why any utility that rewrites the MBR code can get your system booting again. Linux rewrites MBR can boot Windows, Windows fdisk can make Linux bootable again, etc. Basically, the MBR code just examines the partition table (in RAM - the BIOS doesn't care or know about the last 66 bytes being partition table. It loads the entire 512 byte sector into RAM), finds an entry marked with an "active" flag, and copies the first sector out of that partition into RAM and jumps into that code.

      Extended partitions are the devil, which is why most MBRs can't boot from an extended partition.
  • by Myria (562655) on Monday January 07 2008, @11:18PM (#21949958)
    A program running as root takes over a machine. News at 11!

    It's really annoyed me that security companies continually report these things when they have no relevance to actual security. The concentration should always be on preventing malware from acquiring root access in the first place. Vista, despite its faults, actually does a much better job of this than its predecessors.

    Also, this is Slashdot. Slashdot has Linux users, and wouldn't Linux users know that overwriting is even easier to do in Linux than NT? "dd if=trojan.bin of=/dev/hda", anyone?

    By the way, there are many more bad things you can do as Administrator than just hack the boot sector. You can use bcdedit to create a fake Windows XP boot entry then put your Trojan kernel there.
  • by Fizzl (209397) <fizzlNO@SPAMfizzl.net> on Tuesday January 08 2008, @01:42AM (#21950626) Homepage Journal
    MBR was THE attack vector for viruses back in the good old times of MS-DOS and floppies. Now it's new again?
    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward
      That'd require changes to the partition table, which is protected from NT's usermode IIRC.
    • by Nimey (114278) on Monday January 07 2008, @09:54PM (#21949508) Homepage Journal

      The slashot discussion system is a joke run by arrogant, biased, opinion nazis
      Tutorial:

      1) That's "Slashdot". -1 for capitalization, -5 for spelling.
      2) Nazi is capitalized.
      3) Your sig is an automatic Godwin. Might want to fix that.
      4) You didn't end your sentence with punctuation. This one calls for a period.
      5) Arrogant? You bet!
        • Re:Like it matters (Score:4, Informative)

          by Entropius (188861) on Monday January 07 2008, @11:04PM (#21949878)
          Two-word noun phrases are only hyphenated when used in adjective form. For instance:

          Gamma rays are a type of ionizing radiation.

          but

          The gamma-ray burst released 4.3 blargajoules of energy.
          • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

            Two-word noun phrases are only hyphenated when used in adjective form.

            I don't know about US usage, but in British usage there's no such rule, according to both Partridge's "Usage and Abusage" and Fowler's "Modern English Usage" (arguably two of the three most influential prescriptive grammars of the 20th century, the third being Fowler's "The King's English", which I don't have to hand).

            As Partidge points out, "In the life of a compound word there are three stages: (1) two separate words (cat bird); (2) a hyphenated compound (cat-bird); (3) a single word (catbird)."

            Apart

            • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 08 2008, @12:12AM (#21950186)
              The latter, because "Fuck off" is an imperative verb form and has nothing to do with adjectives.
        • by cbreaker (561297) on Tuesday January 08 2008, @01:17AM (#21950504) Journal
          Yes, it's the super complicated SlashDot moderation system designed specifically to baffle the weak minded. Although some chimps have been known to figure it out, it apparently still has some effectiveness.
    • Re:Like it matters (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Opportunist (166417) on Monday January 07 2008, @09:55PM (#21949514)
      Hen and egg. How does the virus get there in the first place. SOMEONE must first of all get it to execution. Malware doesn't suddenly jump in and exists. It has to be brought into the machine. A virus or trojan does jack when it just sits on your machine. It is a program. It has to be executed to do its "magic".

      There are exactly three ways to get this done. First, remote (RPC) exploits, which is easy to defeat with a router that does not allow any packets in to sensitive ports. Second, exploits in programs. This is harder to secure, since you can never know whether your mail client or your web browser (or one of its myriad plugins) has such a vulnerability. Your best bet is to use something that has nearly no market share (and is thus not interesting for commercial malware users).

      And finally, the user himself can execute it. And, believe it or not, this is the most used and most successful way of infecting a machine. In other words, the main security problem is not in the machine. It's in front of it.
      • Re:Like it matters (Score:4, Insightful)

        by burnin1965 (535071) on Tuesday January 08 2008, @01:17AM (#21950494) Homepage

        since you can never know whether your mail client or your web browser
        word processor, spreadsheet, presentation software, desktop database software, etc, etc. Since the whole idea of using a computer is to run code there are a miriad of exploit possibilities in just about any application that has scripting capabilities or simply an bug in the code which can be used to execute code. This is the reason applications should not be running with permissions that allow operations like writing to the MBR when there is no reason to.

        Your best bet is to use something that has nearly no market share (and is thus not interesting for commercial malware users).
        Like Windows ME? While it has virtually no market share I'd hardly recommend it for use in any application. Actually your best bet is to use something that has a good secure design which trys to reduce the potential for exploits. My personal choice is linux and while it does not have the desktop market share of Windows NT variants it does have a massive server/router/appliance install base and it is continually under attack, however, over the years of using linux for my desktop solutions I've yet to have any issues related to exploits.

        And finally, the user himself can execute it. And, believe it or not, this is the most used and most successful way of infecting a machine. In other words, the main security problem is not in the machine. It's in front of it.
        Can you provide a link to the statistics showing "the most used and most successful way of infecting a machine" is by users executing the code themselves? Visiting a web page with a browser you are executing or reading e-mail with a mail reader you executed either of which may have an exploit via a code bug or scripting is not the same thing as a user executing the code themselves. I assume your suggesting that the users are actually clicking on the executable and intentionally running the code which infects their system, which does happen but I'd like to see the study before I believe that is the #1 successful attack vector.
      • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

        Hen and egg. How does the virus get there in the first place. SOMEONE must first of all get it to execution. Malware doesn't suddenly jump in and exists.
        Really ?
        That's not what my users have been telling me...

        Those sneaky weasels !

    • Re:Like it matters (Score:5, Informative)

      by MBCook (132727) <foobarsoft@foobarsoft.com> on Monday January 07 2008, @09:56PM (#21949524) Homepage

      What if someone wrote a super small bootable virus,

      Yeah, like something that could fit in a 512 byte MBR...

      , then the virus' initial form used Partition Magic-like functionality to write its own partition

      Why bother?

      and stick the virus on it then tell the computer before restarting to boot from that one.

      That's what this does. It modifies the MBR to load the virus as a driver out of a pair of sectors.

      Then the virus can do whatever it wants to the MBR or basically anything else on the drive cuz no files or anything would be open.

      This already does whatever it wants. And the "files open" comment is non-sensical, the pre-boot environment has no concept of "open files", it's just a little 512 byte loader.

      I'm pretty sure Windows can't protect the MBR if it isn't running.

      There isn't much Windows (or any) OS can do when it isn't running.

      If you read the article (it contains scary things like x86 assembly, I know, but you can skip that) you'd see that the describe this hooks into the load routines used by Windows. By intercepting these calls and redirecting them, it prevents you from overwriting the MBR or even detecting that it's changed (to a degree). To fix this you have to open a clean environment (like the recovery console off the Windows CD) and have it fix the MBR.

      Amazing how even with all we've got, things go back to the same kind of viruses that were written back in the days of DOS 2.

      I wonder if this would be so easily possible with EFI based booting. OS X uses it. Vista SP1 supports booting using EFI off disks don't partitioned with the old DOS partition format.

      PS: Whoever modded the parent as informative either doesn't know what they're talking about, is drunk, or is in cahoots.

      PPS: Sorry. I've been looking for an excuse to use the word "cahoots" all day.

      • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

        I wonder if this would be so easily possible with EFI based booting. OS X uses it. Vista SP1 supports booting using EFI off disks don't partitioned with the old DOS partition format.

        I can't imagine that would make any difference. The computer needs to boot somehow, there are legitimate reasons for modifying the boot code (such as installing a new OS, or fixing flaws in it) so you can't just block it wholesale, and any program that runs at the boot stage will necessarily have complete control of your comput

        • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

          I can't imagine that would make any difference. The computer needs to boot somehow, there are legitimate reasons for modifying the boot code (such as installing a new OS, or fixing flaws in it) so you can't just block it wholesale, and any program that runs at the boot stage will necessarily have complete control of your computer. About the best you can do is require the user to confirm before overwriting the MBR - something I thought windows already did (and if it doesn't, there's really no excuse for it not to) - but that's far from foolproof.

          I think most modern Bios's have MBR/boot sector virus protection options. Basically you set the option in the BIOS and it either prevents MBR access (through the on-chip IDE controller, duno about off-board cards or scsi devices) or interrupts the system and displays an alert screen (similar to an overheat warning some do). To use it, you turn it off, install your OS with boot loader of choice, then go turn it on. Anything trying to write MBR data gets rejected or notifies you in pretty ASCII colors on scr

      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        I wonder if this would be so easily possible with EFI based booting. OS X uses it. Vista SP1 supports booting using EFI off disks don't partitioned with the old DOS partition format.

        Whether EFI or BIOS, this is a (small) part of what TCPA is intended to defeat. The idea is that the EFI or BIOS hands a copy of the boot sector to the TPM before loading it, and the TPM hashes it into a state register. The boot sector code sends a copy of the boot loader code to the TPM for hashing before it loads, then the boot loader sends a copy of the OS kernel to the TPM before it loads, and so on.

        Any piece of code along the way, or even user-level code after boot, can check the state register to

    • well if it's going to attack liek that it would need higher privilages- that is it needs to exploit another flaw to exploit this one. That being said, it appears that pretty much any OS that has that particular method used [seperate partition + virus] would be affected. No doubt delivered in the same way it has always been, users downloading a new program. you can patch the OS all you want, you still can't patch the user.
    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      Almost all BIOSes released in the past 5 years had MBR protection. Install your OS, turn on MBR protection and let the virus try.

      I hated it at first, Linux installs failing as LILO not getting to write to the MBR until you turned it off.

    • by cgenman (325138) on Monday January 07 2008, @10:19PM (#21949626) Homepage
      If these so-called invisible rootkits are so effective, why aren't we seeing them everywhere? Huh?

      http://www.nuklearpower.com/daily.php?date=080103 [nuklearpower.com]
    • Are you trolling?

      Macs use EFI and PC's use BIOS. That's why.
      • Of course.. (Score:5, Interesting)

        by Junta (36770) on Monday January 07 2008, @10:51PM (#21949792)
        Whether it's a an MBR record or an executable file stored on a filesystem the firmware may understand, the concepts are the same. Any sane operating system will allow you to modify boot files (after all, how else do you upgrade early-execution code). Whether it's an MBR or a more sophisticate piece of firmware, the principle is the same. The question is whether users have been trained to always be administrator, or if they've been trained the more disciplined way where uncommon (at least should be)/privileged operations can only be executed at significant obious pain.

        Under linux even, a number of distributions have on occasion ventured down the very dangerous/wrong approach of skipping user accounts and going all root for the sake of convenience. However, the mainstream usage of linux (and OSX) is thankfully non-root users, and as such any *serious* applications accomodate that usage pattern (with the bonus of being sanely multi-user.

        Meanwhile, Windows heritage has been less optimal. The consumer oriented MS platforms right up until XP didn't have a meaningful non-administrator concept, as well as much of a multi-user concept. As a consequence, many application developers did bad things that would break (i.e. using registry entries that are machine specific rather than user specific, or even writing things like saved documents/games to the application Program Files directory. Win9x even provided relevant spots that would evolve to something meaningful, but without significant meaning, many third parties ignored it, especially after Win3.x training. XP was the first definitive wake up call to a WIDE variety of developers. Even so, the majority of users ended up being administrative users to make up for the gap (as well as having no easy automatic privilege escalation). Hell, even a customized preload I saw sets up one user, renaming the administrator user (and in fact, calls an un-renamed administrator account a security risk... indeed).

        OSX made a clean break with OSX (relegating "classic" applications to a relatively severe sandbox"), Linux never had such an unclean history to overcome. So while OSX implementing clean privilege escalation, and Linux has been working on facilities that lend itself well to that (i.e. DBus). Windows XP did not make a clean break, and Vista didn't etiher, but Vista's UAC is an attempt at giving users a facility to do privilege escalation. It's annoying because of bad programs and bad habits. But non-admin default usage + UAC is the only way they have of maintaining a sane featureset without being considered so vulnerable.

        It also doesn't help that so many Windows users see "click here for free smilies" and think it's a good idea to do so.
    • Here [microsoft.com].

      It actually looks reasonable - you can still perform raw disk writes from userland (with admin rights, of course) - you just can't write over a mounted volume. Disk imaging utilities will still work, provided they dismount any volumes before they overwrite them (which they ought to be doing anyway; I should know, I wrote a Windows disk imaging utility at my last job).

      And of course, you can't dismount a disk with an active pagefile on it, so it solves that vulnerability. But it does so in a reasonable
      • I'm forced to conclude that the majority of Slashdot's most vehement and fervent posters are autistic inhabitants of their parents' basements, with no sense of humor at all.

        -1.