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A Chip on DVDs Could Prevent Theft
Posted by
samzenpus
on Wed May 09, 2007 09:49 PM
from the chip-the-children dept.
from the chip-the-children dept.
Dieppe writes "A simple chip added to a DVD disk could prevent retail theft. According to the AP article at MSNBC, the chip would be activated at the register to make a previously dark area of the DVD clear, and therefore readable. Could this help to stem the tide of the approximate $400 million dollars in losses from brick and mortar stores? Game console DVDs could also be protected this way too. Could this help to bring the prices down on DVD games and movies?"
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"A Chip on DVDs Could Prevent Theft" (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Re:"A Chip on DVDs Could Prevent Theft" (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re:"A Chip on DVDs Could Prevent Theft" (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re:"A Chip on DVDs Could Prevent Theft" (Score:4, Insightful)
(or, more likely steal them and fence them to a man who has the tools)
Hmm. You're probably right. This will likely only deter the most casual of thiefs, and annoy many more paying customers (who would then feel completely justified in D/Ling the CD.)
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
It's not an anti-piracy measure, it's an anti-theft system just like the summary says. I think it'd inconvenience store owners more than anyone else. They'll probably be left footing the bill for the hardware.
Re:"A Chip on DVDs Could Prevent Theft" (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re:"A Chip on DVDs Could Prevent Theft" (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re:"A Chip on DVDs Could Prevent Theft" (Score:5, Insightful)
I admit that I don't do a lot of shopping for media in brick'n'mortar stores, but the last time I did, they had this seemingly elegant system for theft control.
I don't see how this new "chip on a disc" system is a revolutionary improvement.
Parent
Re:"A Chip on DVDs Could Prevent Theft" (Score:5, Informative)
It's that simple. Theft and fraud do not bring the price of goods up. When shopping carts are stolen from the supermarket it does not raise the cost of food. If they could have possibly raised the price before they would have already done it. Theft cuts into profits but it absolutely does not raise the price for the consumer.
Parent
Re:"A Chip on DVDs Could Prevent Theft" (Score:4, Interesting)
And if they ever do introduce this and you really want to protest it, you can take a bunch of DVDs to the cashier, watch as they activate all of them, then tell them you've changed your mind and no longer wish to purchase them.
Parent
History Says: Prices will go Up. (Score:5, Insightful)
Isn't that what the record industry said when CD's came out?
"The price will come down."
Then, they changed it to, "Well, you're getting better quality. That's why CD's are so expensive."
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
The price did come down. The price stayed down when the price of nearly everything else doubled or tripled.
Stop whinning.
Re:History Says: Prices will go Up. (Score:5, Interesting)
Parent
Not really (Score:3, Interesting)
Nope, plastic disks with digital bits on them are being sold at tremendous cartel inflated hyper-gouging prices. And everyone and their cousin leroy knows that, hence why so little respect for the MAFIAA dons and their last century business models. The music and movie indus
Sharpie anyone? (Score:5, Funny)
LOL (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:LOL (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Sometimes I enter a store and the alarm goes off - on the way out it doesn't, whether I've bought something or not.
More like: Will it be the next DRM? (Score:4, Interesting)
I mean, rhetoric about cutting down losses and all, well, it's good and fine. But here you have something that prevents a disc from being played, unless the correct key is sent to a chip. Are you thinking what I'm thinking, Pinky? Because I'm sure that someone at Sony just did. And if (ad absurdum) they didn't, then MS just did, in its quest to convince the MPAA and RIAA to make its own protection schemes the new entertainment centre standard.
I mean, it's a no brainer. Make the disc revert to opaque after a while, and have to be re-activated. So every time it has to be played in an authorized player.
As a bonus, it's got all the potential in the world to implement some other nasty roadblocks to fair use. E.g.,
- region coding. No more just messing with the firmware to make other region DVDs play, the chips for different regions can be physically tuned to different frequencies.
- killing the second-hand market for good. E.g., make the chip also contain a small flash area, just enough to hold the player's own key. The first time it's played, it stores the player's ID there, and subsequently refuses to activate on anything else. (Extra bonus: now you also need need to buy a new DVD each time you buy a new player.)
- limits on how often you can play the DVD. Pretty trivial: the chip also contains a counter, and when that limit is reached, it can no longer be activated. In the video market it actually has actually a legitimate use: mail-order rentals where you don't actually have to bring it back. But imagine the fun when your next Windows version has such a chip, to stop all those pirates from installing one copy of Windows on 20 machines. (And incidentally also stop anyone from reinstalling it more than once or twice after their hard drive failed, or they got pwned by a virus, or whatever.)
Etc.
And unlike just encryption, some of these can be a much bigger pain in the rear to defeat.
E.g., a counter on the chip can physically and irreversibly blow a tiny fuse for each time it's played. When it's out of fuses, that's it. There is no decryption key you can post on Digg or print on a t-shirt, that will bypass a physically destroyed circuit.
E.g., the chip doesn't need to be reprogrammable from outside in any form or shape. So there's no way to just crack its firmware to make it stay transparent. In fact, at that size and given that you want the absolute minimum power consumption, it doesn't need a firmware at all. It can simply be hard-wired.
Downside, there are physical ways to attack it, such as replacing the chip or marinating the disc in some chemical that neutralizes the dye. Both are a far bigger pain in the arse for Jack Sixpack than just downloading a cracked driver or firmware. I don't see Jack drilling holes and inserting micro-chips that gladly. Plus, it requires buying something tangible, such as a replacement chip, which is easier to trace and prosecute than an offshore warez site.
Parent
Re:LOL (Score:5, Insightful)
I congratulate you on your devious combinations of stock lines to grab some karma which is completely unrelated to the story at hand, but do try and at least glance at the article the next time?
Parent
Sorta cool (Score:4, Insightful)
You try keeping your daughter from destroying those Disney DVD's that are only released once a few decades!
Re:Sorta cool (Score:5, Informative)
When I contacted Disney about a replacement disk at cost (not retail) I was told "tough shit". When I pointed out that had they not used rip-guard and other countermeasures to me making a backup, and as such I expected them to make a good faith effort to replace my damaged disk, they said "tough shit, buy a new one". When I pointed out that the disk was over a year old and out of production, they said "tough shit, try e-bay". So I did and I found a really inexpensive (Chinese "overrun") authentic disk.
See if I buy Disney media anything ever again, it's off to TPB and netflix + anydvd + dvd decrypter.
Back onto the topic at hand, TFA mentions that this tech is applicable to other products as well, I wonder how soon till the regularly missed activation gets consumers pissed about coming back, and gets the customer service reps numb to the issue, such that freshly pilfered merchandise can be activated at the customer service desk rather than the register?
One of my mates worked at Office Depot. Someone stole a display computer, walked it over to the service desk, made up some bogus issue with the ($2000) PC, balked at the estimate, and carried "their" PC out the door, with the staff holding the door for them!
Same thing will happen with this tech.
-nB
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Copy protection (Score:5, Insightful)
Hahahah (Score:5, Insightful)
No, but it could raise the profit margin.
Re:Hahahah (Score:4, Insightful)
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Competitive
End the sentence (Score:5, Insightful)
Bottom line is, apparently on Slashdot you can substitute "could" with "won't" and you get to read the actual material we're handed. Cut down the pointless speculation guys, it's lame.
Preemptive Strike! (Score:5, Insightful)
China thanks you for creating another black market for it to thrive in.
Reduce... prices? (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Why steal retail? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
I'm really sick of this s
Re:Why steal retail? (Score:5, Interesting)
So that's why I always steal the DVDs from stores
Parent
Will it lower the cost? (Score:5, Interesting)
Cop Math (Score:5, Insightful)
I just love those numbers. I'm much more concerned about the estimated $120 million in lost productivity resulting from time spent dealing with broken shoelaces, and the estimated $275 million in annual losses to people who are shortchanged by hot dog vendors.
How about a moratorium on all numbers that were pulled out of a PR guy's ass?
right idea, wrong direction (Score:4, Informative)
How long do you think it will take for these "DVD Decryption" devices, as it were, to hit the black market and for plans to be readily available on the internet?
How about, a security device hidden on the DVD itself that will ALWAYS make the security device go off (electrical tape be damned) unless it's rung up at the register first? That would sound like a useful application to me. Come on... people will stop stealing just because they can't watch it? The basic principle of stealing/hacking/whatever is first and foremost "do it to see if you can" right? I can't imagine the inordinate amount of people who will laugh their asses off after stealing this worthless media content, if for no other reason just to piss off Wal*Mart or whoever. It's fun sticking it to the proverbial man.
Another point, how many of you have bought a DVD or other related product, and gotten the hidden security device on it deactivated at the register, just to have to door alarm beep at you and you have to pull out your receipt to verify your purchase? How many people are going to make it out the door and to their homes, to discover their DVD wasn't REALLY activated at the register, before they figure out it's a bad idea? You think Wal*Mart is going to believe you when you come back in and say "Yes I bought this, no it wasn't activated for some reason" ? NO NO NO NO NO.
There ARE some useful applications for this technology, oh yes, there are; however, I really think this one is quirky. Come on Corporate America.
How is this any better (Score:5, Interesting)
Brilliant! (Score:5, Insightful)
It must be magic (Score:5, Insightful)
Yeah, no. (Score:5, Insightful)
Yeah right, (Score:5, Insightful)
how does this prevent shrinkage? (Score:3, Interesting)
Talkin' turkey (Score:3, Insightful)
The people who shoplift are not your target market anyway, have no disposable income, probably are insignificant outside high crime area/high volume retail.
It will cost money to develop the chip which will be passed on to consumers, and boosting the amount of money spent pressing each disk. Shops that do not buy the hardware to detect the chips will be losing money because the same volume of theft will occur but the real value of the otherwise worthless CD has been increased by the chip. The idea that money is actually being lost is an illusion created by the record companies who use flashy printing and threats to assign a huge price to what is really very cheap to produce per unit. There is a constant cost they incurred to make the album and then a continual advertising cost and pressing cost. The pressing cost is extremely low compared to the advertising cost but it is presented as being high. By charging outlets for theft they give outlets a reason to buy antitheft hardware. However the only thing the chips will really be useful for is DRM since once you have the chip on the disc the next step is to add a tag reader into all drives. It is another way to break the spec.
I Call Shinanigans (Score:3, Insightful)
That means the distributors are
A: looking for excuses that their movies just plain suck and people aren't buying them as much and are looking for means to jack up product prices, and just plain full of shit
B: Genuinely concerned about their business partners the retailers and want to get into new markets (as the article described)
Or am I missing something? I'm not exactly on the front line of retail marketing.
I wish they'd stop treating me like a criminal. (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm an honest person - I don't steal. I'm tired of being treated like a criminal, tired of being inconvenienced because some people are criminals, tired of the assumption being that I'm guilty. I'm tired of that fucking alarm going off when I walk out of a store and everyone looking at me like I'm a thief because the security tag wasn't deactivated. I'm tired of security guards at stores thinking they have a right to look through my bags. I'm tired of ruining my nails and cutting my fingers thanks to clamshell packaging.
Wanna know how to reduce theft, increase sales and all without making people feel like scumbags? Change your fucking business model to one that addresses the needs consumers actually have. The fact that your store security is for shit is *NOT* *MY* *PROBLEM*. Will Best Buy give me a new stereo if someone breaks into my home and steals mine? No. So why should I pay when they get robbed?
Here's an idea: Have machines at stores that hold spindles and spindles of DVDs and CDs. Have the customer swipe their credit card at the machine and select the movie they want, and then a pre-made DVD (for a "hot" new release) can be spit out, or, if it's something that's a little more obscure/rarely needed, it can be burnt on the spot. Don't have or want to use a credit card? No problem - just take a voucher from a display, go to the check-out line, pay with cash and the clerk can activate the code on the voucher - then the machine will give you what you want when you scan your ticket in.
This would even let there be less packaging and waste. If someone wanted a special collector's edition with all the goodies, keep those in a secure spot and get them when needed.
For small electronics, why not have vending machines like they do for iPods and cellphones now? It annoys me that I have to waste time getting a clerk to open up a cabinet just to get some $30 item I want - and it's a waste of their time, too.
Re:No (Score:4, Insightful)
A thwartable scheme doesn't mean that it's 100% useless. Consider how easy it is to prevent fingerprints from being left behind, yet they're captured all the time.
Parent
Re:No (Score:4, Insightful)
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Informative)