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TiVo File Encryption Cracked
Posted by
kdawson
on Mon Dec 04, 2006 03:17 PM
from the platform-equity dept.
from the platform-equity dept.
An anonymous reader writes "TiVo file encryption has been cracked. Details on the project can be found on the wiki. Mac and Linux users rejoice!" The project page says, "The conversion still requires the valid MAK of the TiVo which recorded the file, so it cannot be used to circumvent their protection, simply to provide the same level of access as is already available on Windows."
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Yay fair use (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Yay fair use (Score:4, Interesting)
Nice to see that TiVO owners can catch up to the rest of us now, but a smarter decision at the beginning would have given you that choice from the start.
if someone figures out how to take a TiVo and install a linux distro on it and a mythtv install I'll be all over buying a Tivo or two to hack, but until then. I'll keep using my networked replays.
Parent
Oh no! (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
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Re:Yay fair use (Score:5, Insightful)
Ads: Barely visible. They either appear on the bottom of the Now Playing screen, in which case they're optional, or it takes up an eighth of the screen during the commercial for the product being shown. In essence, the latter are only visible in the short time while you're fast-forwarding, showing you a stationary ad for a couple seconds. Those ads are exceedingly rare anyway. (I saw one for the Wii yesterday during primetime, but that's the first I've seen in weeks.)
It seems to me that many people on Slashdot, the Richard Stallman crowd especially, act like Tivo is most evil company on the planet for a few very minor faults (especially when it comes to DRM). In reality, I like Tivo because while they do pay lip service to the likes of the RIAA and the MPAA, it is only lip service. They didn't actually remove the commerical-skip feature: they just put in an easy workaround to get it. They included DRM to prevent themselves from getting sued, but it is extremely minimal DRM that is easily circumvented by the owner of the Tivo with a single DirectShow filter. If ReplayTV had paid lip service, it might still be around.
In fact, Tivo even does things that most Slashdotters would applaud, but are villainized nonetheless. Though they have a few patents, a lot of it is for innovative hardware. They aren't like some of the patent-whores who patent things invented fifteen years ago: they basically co-invented the DVR, and made a damn good one. They even use Linux and released their code under the GPL. And yet, we still hear Stallman complaining about the fact that the Tivo hardware locks you out from changing the software. What he (and many others) apparently miss is that when you buy a Tivo, you're not buying a general purpose computer: you're buying a DVR. I mean, God forbid that they prevent users from running them out of business by buying the hardware for far less than it costs Tivo to make it and loading MythTV onto it. (Yes, Tivo subsidizes the cost of the hardware, but only because you are agreeing to pay for the service.)
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
It's really quite nice being able to completely power down the MythTV box that sits in my living room. If I do the same to my Tivo, not only does stuff not get recorded but I will have to re-enter that stupid hack to get my 30-second skip back again.
That's not even getting into
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TiVo's don't have a power switch. The closest you get is putting it in Standby mode which stops video and audio output. The unit is still on and still records shows and LiveTV. At least, that's true for the sta
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It probably doesn't. The usual trick is to use nvram-wakeup to edit the onboard CMOS RAM and set the wakeup time that way...
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I DO like my Tivo, but it is showing it's age. It's slow, and the feature you mention as "commercial skip" isn't (it's a 30 second skip.) I also want the ability to get programs off it (which I'll probably add a cache+net card to do on the S1.) At this point, after using tivo for about 5 years now, I want more. I want more flexibility, speed, features (play MP3's, photos, etc.) and storage. The Tivo has served me well, but it's
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That's not commercial skip. That's 30-second skip.
ReplayTV's commercial skip, like MythTV's commercial skip, figures out what portions of the recorded show are commercials and then automagically skips them on playback. Certain VCR's (I think JVC) had similar functionality, just not as nice since fast-forwarding tape is a lot clunkier than seeking on a file.
Possibility for series3 HD Tivo? (Score:4, Interesting)
So can anyone tell me if this actually brightens the prospects of being able to use a series 3 HD Tivo to record HD shows and then archive them offline for storage? I did RTFA but the jargon about headers and address bytes and whatnot got a little heavy for me.
Re:Possibility for series3 HD Tivo? (Score:5, Informative)
Parent
Re:Possibility for series3 HD Tivo? (Score:5, Informative)
For getting video off a Series 3, I worry that it will take an external drive (once they enable THAT) and then get the files that way.
I say all this as a Series 3 owner who, really, doesn't have a ton of use for extracting video.
In short: Series 3 need not apply.
Parent
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You've already paid for an expensive HD TV and the extra charges for the HD channels.
Now you are going to cry over the cost of the HD Tivo?
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Infact, when stacked up next to a nice progressive DVD those HD channels aren't that hot anyways. Even when not compared to good DVD's in a side by side comparison those HD channels aren't that impressive.
Many people don't have t
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If it's good HD, that is just not true. Sure, for poorly encoded, or lower bit-rate transcoded stuff that may be so, but check out PBS-HD and tell me it's not better.
-Ted
i've been copying files for a while off mine (Score:2, Insightful)
No it hasn't. (Score:2, Informative)
Re:No it hasn't. (Score:5, Insightful)
Remember what Bruce says kids: In the classic encryption scenerio, A(lice) encrypts her message to B(ob) to protect it from C(harles). With DRM, Bob and Charles are the same person!
Parent
Re:No it hasn't. (Score:4, Informative)
This defeats TiVO's DRM that was used to prevent Linux and Mac users from watching shows on their PC.
Please stop replying if you have no idea what you're talking about.
Parent
Re:No it hasn't. (Score:5, Interesting)
The key is produced through a (previously) unknown tranformation involving the MAK. Since the MAK is published, as well as the cipher, as well as the protocol.
I don't know what the intent of Tivo's DRM was, and I strongly suspect you don't either.
The DRM as implemented couldn't do what you say it was intended to do- people regularly rip from their tivo and show the results to people who don't have the MAK.
Its a wonderful piece of reverse engineering, but if you're nitpicking that people didn't break the turing cipher, I've got news for you: Nobody had to. They broke the method of creating the key.
Parent
DMCA? (Score:5, Interesting)
The limitations on Tivo are copy protections put in place by a third party, not the owner. (I can still record the same programs on my betamax with no trouble.) Have I missed something?
Re:DMCA? (Score:4, Interesting)
Parent
Re:DMCA? (Score:4, Interesting)
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Re:DMCA? (Score:5, Informative)
'Course, unless you run Linux but have never watched a DVD, you've pretty much already opened that door.
IANAL, but while I'm sure you could argue either way, I'm pretty sure that the better argument is that the DMCA is intended to allow non-owners to add protection, as TiVo is here, for exactly the sort of things TiVo is doing.
Parent
Re:DMCA? (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
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There's every reason to believe dvdcss (and this software) is perfectly legal under the DMCA, as it falls under "interoperability":
`(3) The information acquired through the acts permitted under paragraph (1), and the means permitted under paragraph (2), may be made available to others if the person referred to in paragraph (1) or (2), as the case may be, provides such information or means solely for the p
Re:DMCA? (Score:4, Interesting)
'a technological measure "effectively controls access to a work" if the measure, in the ordinary course of its operation, requires the application of information, or a process or a treatment, with the authority of the copyright owner, to gain access to the work.'
(that's 17 U.S.C. 1201(a)(3)(B)). Under your reading, where it says "with the authority of the copyright owner," that means that the copyright owner has to approve the encryption being put in place. Since I don't think Tivo has agreements with all the media companies, I don't think this applies. Also, I don't think Tivo adds anything to the media, so it doesn't have any copyright in it. So, under this section, you're right.
But, there's another section, 17 U.S.C. 1201(b) which says that you cannot traffic in something that circumvents "a technological measure that effectively protects a right of a copyright owner under this title in a work or a portion thereof." And, here, it does that if it "prevents, restricts, or otherwise limits the exercise of a right of a copyright owner under this title." That's a bit odd to read -- the expression "a right of a copyright owner" is a term of art which basically means "the things only copyright owners can do." The end result is that you cannot traffic in circumvention devices, even if they circumvent something that was not put there with the agreement of the copyright owner, so long as it keeps you from doing something that only the copyright owner can do (i.e. *copying*).
I think that the end result of this odd situation is that people can circumvent the encryption on the Tivo, but can't provide a tool for others to do the same thing.
[See a lawyer before you rely on this.]
Parent
Re: (Score:2)
Not if it's technology to bypass security measures in order to achieve interoperability [hellerehrman.com].
Granted, there's been a few conflicting precedents (DeCSS/libdvdcss) but I think it's well within consumer's rights to watch Tivo-recorded video on whatever OS they darn well please. And on that topic . . . why doesn't Tivo already have a Linux client? It's the native OS on the box itself, after all . . . then again . . . Tivo hasn't shown itself to be particularly supportive of the community that created the base so
Cool, but not *too* cool. (Score:5, Interesting)
The crucial thing here is that TiVo took a business decision not to support Mac/Linux users. They can't really complain when those users decide to support themselves, giving themselves the same abilities that TiVo provide to Windows users...
Personally I think this is the right balance - my TiVo has been sitting in a corner since I moved house - the new cable box does everything TiVo did, and does it in HD (although the interface sucks a bit. Bad comcast). With this though, I can see a new lease of life for the TiVo
Simon
On a slightly related topic... (Score:2)
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The appeal of the Tivo is it's simplicity and ease of use. Yes, I can build my own, but it will cost far more than the cost of the tivo and monthly (or lifetime) service. Plus a home grown solution will tend to require never ending tweaks to keep it running.
Big frakin' deal. (Score:2)
I don't understand why someone would go through the effort of downloading movies from their TiVo to watch on a PC.
- Basic TiVo quality isn't so hot
- The TV shows that I record in high-quality usually exist on purchasable DVD's anyway
- Who ever watch movies more than once or twice? Thanks to Netflix, there is a never ending list of good movies that I've never seen
I don't see all the fuss. TiVo is fine, the DRM is fine. TiVo records disposable media, and media worth hanging onto is worth p
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So see? You made a liar of yourself: You _CAN_ understand why someone would download from their tivo to watch on their TV.
I like putting cartoons on DVD so my kid can watch something on long car rides. Before today, this meant using wine a
InterTiVoNet (Score:2)
Re:Why TiVo when you can MythTV? (Score:5, Informative)
I did, and I wasn't. It was a giant pain in the a** to set up and configure, it didn't work reliably, and the cost for hardware was way higher than buying a TiVo.
Parent
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I recently spec'ed out a MythTV box with an 80gb hard drive and hardware MPEG encoding and a nice media center case for $350 shipped from NewEgg. A pretty good deal, I'd say, and it can actually be used for other things than just watching TV (it's got an Athlon 64, 512 mb RAM, and NVidia GeForce 6150 graphics).
Re:Why TiVo when you can MythTV? (Score:5, Informative)
However, I take issue with "didn't work reliably" and "cost was higher than a tivo."
My own MythTV works flawlessly, using a donated PIII-750 (cost: $0) for the server, and a Hauppauge 150 (cost: $60) for the tuner/encoder. There are no monthly fees. If you can show me a TiVo with lifetime subscription for $60, I'll be amazed. And tell my friends to buy it.
My MythTV also has features that TiVo will never have -- like the ability to automatically detect and skip commercials, the ability to select programs to automatically burn to DVD, and support for enough tuners to simultaneously record everything on every channel (well, in theory... I'd love to see the hardware for that!).
I like the TiVo. It's easy to use. But I like my MythTV a lot more. And I don't have to worry about what stupid decisions TiVo corporate might make -- like encrypting my videos so only I can watch them, support for the "Broadcast" flag, and wasting my storage space with advertisements.
Parent
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Although I'm not sure what your point is here, I guess I'll go with it. Just because you griped enough to DirecTV and didn't get charged for a year doesn't make it free to you either. Be sure to count the time on the phone with them, the downtime without the service, and the general BS that you have to put up with when speaking w/ customer service.
There's that and there's the time it cost you to put
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I didn't have a computer that was capable of running MythTV (and still don't), and when I priced the parts needed to build one, I was looking at over $1000 plus an appreciable amount of labor to build a machine that was as capable as a TiVO box.
It's been some years, so I really don't know if the math works out the same anymore, but at least in my case I really don't think it's a wonder at all that I chose t
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$500 for a TiVO w/ Lifetime subscription is not a bad price, but let me break down my MythTV box.
Total: $534
I happen to have Charter HD cable
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Couple of points:
Re:Why TiVo when you can MythTV? (Score:5, Interesting)
Why post on-topic when you can blatantly go off-topic and get modded up for it? This is a nuts and bolts Tivo article. It's not about considering one DVR solution over another. No other solution is even on the table here. I'm not the biggest fan of Tivo but I'm getting a bit sick of these folks who feels some sort of duty to shove in a reference to MythTV every time Tivo is mentioned. I for one won't be amazed by links about MythTV but I can't read a single DVR article that doesn't have some wonky poster extolling the virtues of MythTV. We get it. We know. Stick to the topic.
Parent
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It's perfectly relevant to the discussion. After all, the discussion centers on an inconvenient aspect of TiVo. The assertion is made that by using MythTV, you avoid that inconvenience altogether. I find that interesting, in the context of the discussion.