Hack of Hezbollah Devices Exposes Dark Corners of Asia Supply Chains (msn.com) 187
Deadly attacks using booby-trapped pagers and walkie-talkies in Lebanon has revealed significant vulnerabilities in the supply chains for older electronic devices. The incident, which killed 37 people and injured about 3,000, has sparked investigations across Europe into the origins of the weaponized gadgets.
Taiwan-based Gold Apollo blamed a European licensee for the compromised pagers, while Japan's Icom could not verify the authenticity of the walkie-talkies bearing its name. Both companies denied manufacturing the deadly components in their home countries. Industry executives say older electronics from Asia often lack the tight supply chain controls of newer products, making it difficult to trace their origins. Counterfeiting, surplus inventories, and complex manufacturing deals further complicate the issue.
Taiwan-based Gold Apollo blamed a European licensee for the compromised pagers, while Japan's Icom could not verify the authenticity of the walkie-talkies bearing its name. Both companies denied manufacturing the deadly components in their home countries. Industry executives say older electronics from Asia often lack the tight supply chain controls of newer products, making it difficult to trace their origins. Counterfeiting, surplus inventories, and complex manufacturing deals further complicate the issue.
Genius (Score:5, Interesting)
I read somewhere that the pagers were sold by a shell company controlled by Israel. This means that not only did they infiltrate Hezbollah catastrophically, but Hezbollah paid for the privilege. This was a genius-level operation.
Re:Genius (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Genius (Score:4, Insightful)
Are you sure Mossad was really careful to make sure none of those products ended up anywhere else? Are you certain that they didn't put bombs in any other gear? And can anyone say with confidence that now it's a proven tactic, nobody else is going to try it?
This is a massive problem for supply chains and for distribution. How much more are you willing to pay for certified chains of custody that give you confidence that thing won't blow you up?
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But certifying the supply chain could cause prices to increase... and we can't have that!
I can't see a Walmart ad, where the smiley face bounces around the store adding "certified supply chain!" to their price labels, getting much traction.
Re:Genius (Score:4, Insightful)
It's going to happen whether you like it or not. Businesses with demand it to cover their arses. Look at the damage being done to the companies that made these devices, and the ones that were in the supply chain.
Re:Genius (Score:5, Insightful)
Certifying the supply chain would do nothing but make prices go up, do you really think a spy agency doesn't have the resources to fake a certification. That is exactly what spies do, their main job skill is to lie effectively.
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How much more are you willing to pay for certified chains of custody that give you confidence that thing won't blow you up?
How much more is some company willing to charge for pseudo-certified chains of custody that give you false confidence? That's the really scary question.
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It's probably less "supply chain" and more the counterfeiting rings associated with manufacturing.
You know, counterfeiting exists - sometimes also called third shift protection. Devices that don't pass QA and get tossed, or a secret production run of devices done using the same tooling and molds and everything, but using
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Are you sure Mossad was really careful to make sure none of those products ended up anywhere else? Are you certain that they didn't put bombs in any other gear? And can anyone say with confidence that now it's a proven tactic, nobody else is going to try it?
And the TSA bans pagers and radios, etc... in 3... 2... 1...
Re: Genius (Score:2)
Israel has the right to defend itself. With intelligence operations like this has been called in our media.
The thing that worries me (Score:2)
You can bet there was a lot of civilian injuries here. Western media isn't going to cover them for obvious reasons but this was really a fucked up thing to do and is only going to keep the fighting going longer.
That is of course the point. As soon as the fighting stops people are going to start asking why the fighting started in the first place. They're g
Re: The thing that worries me (Score:3)
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This is rsilvergun you're talking to. He's trying to wage a Butlerian Jihad. He probably has a pager on him right now.
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Reliability: Pagers use high-frequency radio signals, which are more reliable in hospital environments where cell phone signals can be weak or blocked by thick walls.
So much for the accuracy of Bing Copilot!
This is the exact opposite of how radio waves work. Pagers use lower frequency radio signals than current mobile phones. Lower frequency radio waves travel through walls while higher frequency radio waves are line-of-sight signals that are easily blocked by walls. This is why 2.4GHz WiFi signals travel a greater distance and penetrate walls better than WiFi 5GHz signals.
Re: The thing that worries me (Score:2)
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Well, evil genius. There is the little problem with killing children and civilians and generally making the world a less safe place.
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For context, wars usually have about 50% civilian casualty ratio, which can easily go up to 90% for urban warfare. If this boils over to a war, the civilian casualty ratio will be dramatically higher than the pager/walkie-talkie operation. And it will be worse than the usual ratio, for obvious reasons.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
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That is largely because recent conflicts tend to have the military too close to the civilians, also battle lines move too quickly to evacuate civilians before they're in a combat zone, and rocket and artillery ranges are longer then ever (inaccurate + explosive).
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Re:Genius (Score:5, Insightful)
The other side of the coin is the Israeli lovers who ignore Israel's sins, starting with apartheid policies that would have embarrassed South Africa, and following up with decades of stealing land from Palestinians (who have live on it for generations) at gunpoint to give to Jewish settlers, a practice they've been condemned for by the UN [un.org] more than once.
Both sides have a lot of blood on their hands, and both sides have spent Israel's entire existence deliberately provoking the other side to violence for their own benefit.
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Perhaps they're mourning the dead by killing the terrorists.
Not that Israel doesn't have plenty of blood on their hands, too. There's no good guys on any side.
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Not that Israel doesn't have plenty of blood on their hands, too. There's no good guys on any side.
Unfortunately. While this is completely clear in the west about Hamas, and no need to point that out, too many people want to desperately overlook the blood on Israel's hands. Incidentally, I take it that many Israelis think that what their current government does is going way too far.
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Reminds me of the stance that every nation that ever went to war had.
Those German organizations did give a rat's ass about killing civilians and children they actively tried to kill them, they specifically rounded them up and killed them even once they where captive.
That is the key difference here, Jews where never an active threat to Germans in any way shape or form, their goal was to eliminate all Jews. Here Israel may want the land, but if every Palestinians packed up their bags an left, and the stopped
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I am, obviously, referring to what they did before the war. You are somewhat historically challenged, are you?
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I am clear on that. You merely stated what is likely a fact.
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But yeah, minimizing collateral damage (what a asinine euphemism!) seems to be of very little importance to several Nations out there. And of course, as demonstrated by these actions of the past few days.
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Hezbollah doesn't seem to have a "problem with killing children and civilians", so my sympathy for those Hezbollah people affected in those attacks is zero.
I have sympathy for people who were collateral damage, but as far as attacks go, this one probably had the lowest ratio of collateral to intentional damage of pretty much any counter-terrorism action in recent years.
Re:Genius (Score:5, Interesting)
this one probably had the lowest ratio of collateral to intentional damage of pretty much any counter-terrorism action in recent years
That is because for example the US has repeatedly committed mass-murder of civilians in "counter-terrorism" in the past. Being less of a war-criminal is really not a great achievement and does not make the actions taken ok.
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So, people at a wedding that had no clue who else got invited, for example? You are a real Unmensch, nothing else.
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I do not weep for the Hitler Youth, and neither should you.
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The former Pope was a member of the Hitler Youth, presumedly against his will.
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Many were. It was a survival strategy. In fact it became legally mandatory at some point.
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When Hezbollah et:al decide to stop calling for the complete obliteration of Israel, we can talk. Till then no so much.
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Yeah, the Islamic terrorists do a lot of that, the killing of children and civilians.
There's no one involved on any side who doesn't have the blood of children on their hands.
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And? Their choice is to kill their enemies, or face literal genocide (the openly stated goal of the other side).
That's their choice, and that's the choice Hamas and Hezbollah have made.
Both sides deliberately provoke the other side to violence, and have for decades, for their own benefit.
Israel needs the external threat to suppress their own internal dissent. Without it, their society would tear itself apart within a generation.
The terrorists groups, all of them, simply cease to exist without Israel to atta
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Calling the other side a Nazi: The first and only choice of the anti-semite (what we see in others, we see in ourselves, and you see Nazis everywhere) who have nothing else but namecalling.
The choice they have is either be as subhumanly violent as the terrorists, or genocide. You make your choice, they'll make theirs, and only one side gives a fuck what what the other side thinks about it.
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Don't be stupid.
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Too late.
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So you approve of killing children, merely because of who their parents are? The Germans liked to do that too.
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You should stop listening to Fox news.
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Don't blame the Mossad for Hezbollah's wrongdoings.
Re:Genius (Score:4, Informative)
You can't call for Israel to pull punches when their adversaries not only want to A) kill everyone in Israel and regularly call for genocide against all Israelis, B) actually kidnap and murder civilians in an armed incursion, C) use suicide bombs to kill Israeli civilians on a regular basis, D) use their own people as human shields.
There's no clean fighting in the Middle East.
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Sure I can. Israel goes out of it's way to antagonize the Palestinians via turning a blind eye to settler attacks against them, via seizing their land to build Israeli homes on, and completely abandoning even the illusion of being involved in a peace process amongst other things. This not only empower groups like Hamas and invited horrible attacks like Oct 7 but it also pissed everyone else off living in the region inviting attacks from them as well.
Given this, I feel perfectly fine questioning Israel's mi
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Still it was MUCH more controlled that raining bombs or missiles to target that many terrorists.....in war you're always going to have collateral damage.
In this case it was radically minimized.
Re: Genius (Score:2)
Excuse me, those kids *could* have grown up into terrorists. See, like Madeleine Albright said, we feel it's worth it to secure peace and democracy.
Now, if *other* countries do it, well, then, that's just not fair. And against peace and democracy.
Re: Genius (Score:2)
Well, evil genius. There is the little problem with killing children and civilians and generally making the world a less safe place.
The Israeli response is reckoned by Hezbollah internally [x.com] to have a death toll of 840 Hezbollah members to 39 non-Hezbollah casualties.
In the last year alone Hezbollah has killed 43 Israelis with their indiscriminate rocket barrage, including very recently 12 children playing on a soccer field. And they have been a key partner of Hamas (both proxies of Iran) in smuggling in weapons and executing the attack that killed 1200 Israelis, many raped, tortured, and taken hostage, specifically targeting a music fest
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Oct 7 was actually Hamas. But Hezbollah is no better.
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I don't think the pager attack was in any way, shape or form a copy of the October 7th attack.
Pager attack was targeted and the vast majority of people hit in the attack were the ones being targeted. October 7th was an indiscriminate rampage, with the vast majority of victims being civilians.
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Did Israel enter Lebanon, murder a crowd at a peace and love music festival, rape women and children, then kidnap 200 Lebanese?
Damn, I thought they just targeted attacks at terrorists.
Well, no I'm convinced! Israel is definitely evil. Thanks for your help.
Was that Lebanon? (Score:2)
Did Israel enter Lebanon, murder a crowd at a peace and love music festival, rape women and children, then kidnap 200 Lebanese?
Damn, I thought they just targeted attacks at terrorists.
Well, no I'm convinced! Israel is definitely evil. Thanks for your help.
Was that Lebanon? I thought the attack was from the Gaza strip.
I thought the Gaza strip people were Hamas, and Lebanon people were Hisbollah, and that these people are different, have different cultures, and certain specific cultural points that lead to intense disagreements between the two peoples. (Although their interests sometimes align.)
Damn! I really need to go back and review the handbook of terrorists [state.gov] and get things straight.
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You do not understand how "morals" works, do you? Here is a hint: It does not allow you to do to others what they did to you. That is called "revenge" and generally considered to be a base impulse that is not helpful.
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Very true. But sometimes, if you don't copy them, you just die.
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In this case, no. In the general case, the question becomes how much of a monster you are willing to be in order to survive.
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In this case, no.
In this case, yes. The stated goal of the Islamic terror groups is genocide.
In the general case, the question becomes how much of a monster you are willing to be in order to survive.
You make your choice, they'll make theirs, and the world will see who lives long enough to procreate.
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Re: Genius (Score:3)
If you can walk around with a pager on your hip that is registered to a terrorist organization, in public...
I'm pretty sure it's already a failed state.
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I guess that one weakness that was exploited was that all the equipment were single sourced. That makes sense from a control standpoint however once Israel figured out the source, they could use that weakness. Someone said that a side benefit of the attacks is target identification. Anyone that has was recently injured is now suspected of being part of Hezbollah. Before, it was difficult to know who might be using a Hezbollah pager. Now Israel can figure would who visited a hospital recently due to a pager explosion.
This attack looks spectacular but it really kind failed. The Israelis got something like 5000 of these pagers and a seemingly fairly small number of radios into Lebanon before (according to Israel) some Hezbolal radio nerd opened one up, found the explosives and 'they had to use the capability or loose it' (according to the Israelis). So far the casualty rate does not seem to have topped 3000 with very few fatalities and a whole lot of Hezbollah members don't seem to have been too badly injured. One of the
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It's concerning that Israel is willing to injure or kill civilians to get at its enemies in countries that it is at war with. Can you imagine if they bombed a hotel in your town where they claimed a Hezbollah "commander" was staying?
Don't blame Lebanon for not kicking them out. Lebanon couldn't if they wanted to, and if they did it would be about 8 seconds before Israel annexed part of their country and sent settlers there.
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Can you imagine if they bombed a hotel in your town
They bombed one where the British administrators for Palestine were headquartered. Just to destroy some documents that incriminated the WZO in terrorist attacks.
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Could Nasrallah is the mole. He has been the one encouraging Hezbollah to ditch their mobiles in favor of Pagers for 2 years now.
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I read somewhere that the pagers were sold by a shell company controlled by Israel. This means that not only did they infiltrate Hezbollah catastrophically, but Hezbollah paid for the privilege. This was a genius-level operation.
If so, I would hope they set things up so they could also read/hear/whatever was being transmitted/received -- which would mean they would have known about Oct 7 in advance and/or have other intelligence. Maybe this isn't technically feasible, but if it was and they didn't do it then it was a huge missed opportunity.
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Israel has already demonstrated, excessively, that it's willing & able to target civilians. The western press keep saying Israel bombed Hezbollah but in fact they bombed public places like markets, streets, shops, & people's homes.
The world naturally condemns acts of terrorism, e.g. the Boston marathon terror bombing or Oklahoma City terror bombing. Bombing civilians in Lebanon will also be appropriately condemned, though probably not in wester
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>You're celebrating indiscriminate terror bombing.
No, that's what Hezbollah does. This was an exquisitely well targeted counter-strike with far, far fewer people harmed as 'collateral damage' than bombs and guns would have hurt.
Hezbollah was always going to be getting ready for their next terrorist act. Now it has reduced capability to carry it out.
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Respectfully, evidence / news / link?
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https://www.msn.com/en-us/news... [msn.com]
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So, we mostly agree on the facts. But, the "tech[nician] in Lebanon" was not mentioned. The article said that at least two Hezbollah members suspected something was amiss with the devices. One of them could have been a/the technician. I’m just curious whether someone spilled the beans (first) or Hezbollah actually found out upon inspection (first).
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Yup. Full of pagers everywhere. Even my dog has one! /s
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Look. A lot of stuff could have been weaponized, and to be honest cell phones are probably among the most difficult things to weaponize. There's simply not enough room inside a modern smartphone to properly weaponize it. Components are very, VERY tightly squeezed in there.
As for other items, yes, of course they "could" be transformed into bombs, and it very rarely happens, like those pressure cookers in the Boston Marathon bombing in April 2013.
So why doesn't it happen more often? Because it's way too much
Positive fallout? (Score:2)
Yes, I'm an optimist...
Hezbollah seems clueless (Score:2)
Hey Abdul! Some guy named Shlomo Goldberg just got me a great price on pagers!
Awesome, buy them, and make sure our technician Hyman Katzenberg takes a good look at them first!
Blockchain for supply chain (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Blockchain for supply chain (Score:4, Interesting)
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Supply chain (Score:2)
The supply chain has always been compromised by state level actors.
Both the United States and China are known to intercept networking gear and modify it for their own purposes. Companies like Cisco, Lucent, Motorola have all had this done at various points in time. No fake manufacturers required.
The only thing new in this case is the scale.
American market (Score:2)
So, when are we going to get a copycat version of this and have someone claim that one of these made it to the American soil and killed an American citizen or god forbid a white American child?
Terrorists shopping on the Internet (Score:2)
Ridiculous framing (Score:2)
Deadly attacks using booby-trapped pagers and walkie-talkies in Lebanon has revealed significant vulnerabilities in the supply chains for older electronic devices. The incident, which killed 37 people and injured about 3,000, has sparked investigations across Europe into the origins of the weaponized gadgets
This makes it sound like an earthquake affecting a random percentage of the populace.
It was a targeted operation - almost certainly by Mossad - against senior members of Hezbollah, the Lebanese terrorist group.
An internal Hezbollah memo was released by the Saudis. Their tally is 879 killed, almost exclusively (840) Hezbollah members.
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It wouldn't make sense for someone to attempt this sort of attack against random people, because it's much too difficult and sophisticated. So it would be attempted only against a military target.
I would hope that Western militaries X-ray, disassemble, and examine in minute detail samples of anything they procure before distributing it in the field.
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The Israelis haven't caused damage to American targets on that scale since the USS Liberty incident in 1967. As for other possible aggressors, it would be easy for China to attempt such an attack on pretty much anyone.
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What a strange worry. Are you a terrorist buying a pager and a walky-talky to avoid being located via GPS as you fire missiles at civilians?
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Is that a Yes or a No?
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What a strange worry. Are you a terrorist buying a pager and a walky-talky to avoid being located via GPS as you fire missiles indiscriminately at Israeli children and civilians?
The main export item from middle-east is islamic terrorism.
Re: This could happen to anyone anywhere at any ti (Score:2)
How many kids died in Iraq for non-existent weapons of mass destruction? What's your main export??
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For that matter: what's to stop Israel from doing things like this to anyone, anywhere -- even us?
Easy - they need us to pay for a significant part of their annual national budget. We give them billions in cash, every year.
Re: This could happen to anyone anywhere at any ti (Score:2)
Israel national budget: $125B
US aid for Israel: $4.5B
Go back to Gab with your lies, Adolf
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It’s quite a bit more. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
I’ve had enough of my taxes go towards Israel blowing up brown people. Let them fund it themselves.
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For that matter: what's to stop Israel from doing things like this to anyone, anywhere -- even us?
A good motive.
No, you don't qualify.