Rivals and Legal Action Cast Shadows Over Windows on Arm Market 24
Qualcomm faces potential disruption to its Windows on Arm laptops due to a legal battle with Arm, while MediaTek prepares to enter the market. Qualcomm's exclusivity deal with Microsoft for Copilot+ PCs, based on its Snapdragon SoCs, is set to expire this year.
MediaTek plans to launch its own Windows on Arm chip in late 2024, though it's unclear if it has Microsoft's approval. The legal dispute stems from Qualcomm's acquisition of Nuvia, with Arm claiming Nuvia's licenses are non-transferable without permission. Arm terminated the licenses, requiring Qualcomm to stop using processor designs developed under those agreements. Arm asserts current Copilot+ SoCs descend from Nuvia's chips, potentially subjecting them to an injunction if Arm prevails in court. Qualcomm maintains its existing Arm license rights cover its custom CPUs. Both companies declined to comment on the ongoing legal matter.
MediaTek plans to launch its own Windows on Arm chip in late 2024, though it's unclear if it has Microsoft's approval. The legal dispute stems from Qualcomm's acquisition of Nuvia, with Arm claiming Nuvia's licenses are non-transferable without permission. Arm terminated the licenses, requiring Qualcomm to stop using processor designs developed under those agreements. Arm asserts current Copilot+ SoCs descend from Nuvia's chips, potentially subjecting them to an injunction if Arm prevails in court. Qualcomm maintains its existing Arm license rights cover its custom CPUs. Both companies declined to comment on the ongoing legal matter.
ARM fighting for its own downfall (Score:2)
Their grandfathered eternal contracts with Apple will never make them rich. ARM should cherish any Apple competitor still paying them anything, not accelerate their demise.
Re: (Score:2)
Do they want RiskV to be a thing because this is how you make RiskV a thing.
RISC-V will live along side Intel and ARM ... (Score:2)
Do they want RiskV to be a thing because this is how you make RiskV a thing.
Nothing wrong with RISC-V being a thing since it will only be a thing along side Intel and ARM long into the future. Its not replacing either on the desktop, its not replacing ARM on microcontrollers, on any grand scale. It'll just be one of several options.
Windows ARM in 2024, 2025, or 2026? (Score:3)
If Qualcomm can't be a supplier then others will, the downside is nothing more than a slight delay. Google, Nvidia, Amazon, etc are all working on performance oriented ARM CPUs.
And of course there is Apple. All that is preventing Apple/Microsoft from releasing Boot Camp for ARM is the Qualcomm agreement. Once it expires we will probably see Boot Camp on ARM and fully native bootable builds of Windows on Mac hardwa
Re: (Score:2)
ARM's own cores are less competitive with Apple than Qualcomm's. Implementation > ISA.
Re: (Score:2)
ARM's own cores are less competitive with Apple than Qualcomm's. Implementation > ISA.
Which is why Apple, Microsoft, Google, Amazon, Nvidia, etc all have their own custom designs extending the ARM architecture. ARM is not a competitor, it is a partner to all of them.
Re: (Score:2)
Other than Apple they aren't making laptop SoCs. Other than Apple those are likely all using ARM macro's too, regardless of what their license allows.
As far as implementations go Apple>Qualcomm>ARM ... making life hard for Qualcomm is a dangerous strategy, because a pittance is all they are ever going to get out of Apple.
Re: (Score:2)
Which is fine with ARM. They'll do the common ARM ISA that everyone uses. Their customers will do their specialized design stuff for mobile devices, laptops, desktops and servers. Then TSMC or Intel will build all their variations.
Re: Windows ARM in 2024, 2025, or 2026? (Score:2)
Except apple has switched major architectures like 5 times already
Re: (Score:2)
What makes you think they're still being paid? I've not done any research on it, but it's entirely possible it was a one and done one time payment for that license.
Good reason for ARM to want another shot at their pocketbook if it;s true...
just don't lock the bootloader to be windows only (Score:2)
just don't lock the boot loader to be windows only and / or also force an microsoft account as well.
Re: (Score:1)
Qualcomm is working on official Linux support and has provided a working Debian image to the community. Why would they lock the boot loader?
Re:just don't lock the bootloader to be windows on (Score:4, Insightful)
Qualcomm CPUs don't care if they are running on Windows, Chromebook, Android, etc. Qualcomm is happy to sell to anyone.
Re: (Score:2)
But even on MS hardware like Surface you can install Linux right?
I would assume that's a design decision made by Microsoft.
Re: (Score:2)
Is Microsoft trying to sabotage ARM adoption on purpose?
No, Microsoft is trying to get Qualcomm to make changes to ARM that will enhance performance for Windows ARM-based PCs. They want high performance CPUs like Apple's. You don't get that without a custom design. A period of exclusivity is quid pro quo to get such changes.
Re: (Score:2)
I wonder why it has been four years of exclusivity and still no actual Qualcomm Windows PCs sold during that time?
Qualcomm got the short end of the stick on this one.
Some Surface Pros have used ARM CPUs from this Microsoft/Qualcomm partnership. Plus some Windows ARM dev kit systems.
ARM does to Qualcomm.... (Score:5, Insightful)
What Qualcomm has done to others, using licensing to hold the other side hostage.
Re: (Score:1)