Gmail Will No Longer Allow Users To Revert Back To Its Old Design 72
Google has announced that it's making the new Gmail interface the standard experience for users. From a report: The company first released the new interface earlier this year but allowed users to revert back to the original view. Starting this month, users will no longer have the option to go back to the old interface. "The integrated view with Gmail, Chat, Spaces, and Meet on the left side of the window will also become standard for users who have turned on Chat," the company said in a blog post. "Through quick settings, you can customize this new interface to include the apps most important to you, whether it's Gmail by itself or a combination of Gmail, Chat, Spaces, and Meet."
Not so good...for older, slower machines... (Score:5, Insightful)
I was on one recently and new interface was so slow as to be unusable....the older one, worked just fine and was plenty responsive.
Gotta upgrade your desktop with the google devs. (Score:1)
Or you get a decent MUA (like mutt) and turn on IMAP on your gmail.
Or you ditch gmail. Me, I don't have that problem because I was never cool enough to get invites.
Just upgrade... to anything else (Score:2)
The old simpler interface would work on an older computer (and sometimes this is necessary)....
Google doesn't much care about old equipment, or making things easy for the user. They used to have easy to use imap and smtp too, but now you have to sell your soul to get at them.
It's time to end our dependency on Google. I myself switched to hosting my own email long ago. It's not actually all that hard. Even after switching, though, I used to use gmail as the backup address for some places. For things like my domain registrar and my server hosting company, for example. This was until recently when
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They used to have easy to use imap and smtp too, but now you have to sell your soul to get at them.
Complete nonsense [google.com]. The only irritating part of that functionality is that they will disable it if you don't use it for a week or so, and you have to go back in and turn it on again... hmm, or they used to, but I see I haven't used it in a while and it's still on, interesting. Guess I'll shut that off :)
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Complete nonsense
Not nonsense at all. That's a very old piece of documentation you're quoting there. Nowadays you have to use an app password with most apps, and to be able to do that Google has decided in their wisdom that you can't use an app password with your account unless you enable two factor authentication. That, of course, requires giving Google my cell phone number, which isn't happening.
They consider anything else to be "less secure". I put that in quotes, because I suspect that "less secure" really means you
Re:Just upgrade... to anything else (Score:4, Insightful)
Most all of my google accounts (even YouTube) are so old that they were there before Google wanted any phone info.
A year or two ago I needed a quick new email....and I heard about the phone thing.
I just simply went and paid cash for a Verizon cheap phone and cash for a SIM card.
I used that once for the google set up, they did the 2FA and I've never used or renewed that phone again.
I still have it, in case I need a burner phone again....but so far, was just for this one use.
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I just simply went and paid cash for a Verizon cheap phone and cash for a SIM card ... I still have it, in case I need a burner phone again
Sure, that's a fair solution. I guess I just think I shouldn't need a burner phone to use an email account. I prefer now to use services where I don't have to do that.
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Not nonsense at all. That's a very old piece of documentation you're quoting there. Nowadays you have to use an app password with most apps, and to be able to do that Google has decided in their wisdom that you can't use an app password with your account unless you enable two factor authentication. That, of course, requires giving Google my cell phone number, which isn't happening.
Google just forced me to enable 2FA. They already had my cell phone number, though, because I use voice. I also use an Android phone. Sometimes I degoogle one (on my last phone I ran a non-lineage, non-google distribution without even fake Play Services) but right now I explicitly want to use apps which don't function without genuine Play. I'm just glad I have the choice... except for the 2FA thing. I'm still divided on whether I'm upset about that. In general it's safer, but now I'm seriously considering g
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You can do 2FA with a FIDO-compatible card (I use YubiKey), which is far more secure than cell-phone based 2FA because it cannot be SIM-swapped. The YubiKeys are not free, of course (mine cost about $45 each, and I have two), but if not giving out your phone is important to you, it might be an
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I'll bet "older" means at least 5 years old, maybe 10.
People update their phones every 1-2 years without complaining. Desktops and laptops typically cost less to replace, and they often last 5-7 years.
Unless you're saying this "older" computer is 2 years old, it seems reasonable to target machines that are 5 years old or less.
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I'll bet "older" means at least 5 years old, maybe 10.
People update their phones every 1-2 years without complaining. Desktops and laptops typically cost less to replace, and they often last 5-7 years.
Unless you're saying this "older" computer is 2 years old, it seems reasonable to target machines that are 5 years old or less.
Not too surprising that it's somebody with a 7-digit user ID who thinks that "just buy a new computer!" is a sensible solution to the problem of a webmail application that performs badly.
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I know, I've only been on Slashdot for 15 years. What does that have to do with Google targeting the hardware that most people actually have? Performance optimization is hard. It takes experts and time. Why would they spend resources targeting equipment that only 1% of people use? It's not about telling people to "just buy a new computer." It's about where a developer spends time, and what they spend it on.
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You're simply too new to these "computer" things to understand that the old interface was perfected over decades, and doesn't take any work at all to be "optimized." Zero work. No changes are necessary.
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Right! I've only been writing code since 1984, built my first Linux machine in 1996. I know very well what those old, un-optimized UIs look like and how well they work. So go ahead, use the one you like. Mainstream UIs will always be in flux. It's a fact of life. I'm sorry to have to break the news.
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It's no different from any other product developer. Every vendor, every producer of any product, always finds reasons to "upgrade" or "redesign" their wares. Cars, phones, watches, TVs, food products, dishwashers, refrigerators, you name it, they all tweak their products. Why? Because they are in business and must stand out from the competition or die. Any manufacturer that stands still, will be clobbered by the competition and eventually lose everything.
Email clients are no different. Sure, you can use Thu
Re: Not so good...for older, slower machines... (Score:2)
A phone costs 300 USD, a proper computer more like 2,000 USD.
I don't know what world you live in to think replacing a computer is cheaper than replacing a phone.
I'm a software engineer and most of my computers are 10 years old or so, it's nit something you need to replace regularly since technology isn't moving that fast anymore.
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You and I may have phones that cost $300 or less, but these are not the phones most of America buys.
The iPhone 14 Pro is $999 https://www.apple.com/shop/buy... [apple.com]
Samsung Z Flip is $860 https://www.amazon.com/Samsung... [amazon.com]
And you may have a $2,000 "proper" computer, but again, this is not typical of what Americans typically buy. More typically, non-nerds will buy laptops like this HP from Walmart, at $429. https://www.walmart.com/ip/HP-... [walmart.com]
For most people, a $400 laptop is plenty powerful enough to run Google's new
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If you have an older PC this is a usable alternative. I just tested it and it works just fine.
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The old simpler interface would work on an older computer (and sometimes this is necessary)....
I find it "necessary" even on a new computer, because with the old interface it always shows the real state of the data. With the new interface, it updates what it shows me as soon as I click; but the actual changes happen in the background. If there is lag, and I close the tab after taking some action, then that action never be taken, it is simply silently lost.
They also enforced having OAuth2 which blows (Score:4, Informative)
Re:They also enforced having OAuth2 which blows (Score:5, Informative)
More mail servers (especially large-scale) are requiring OAuth2 and/or other methods that can enforce 2FA due to spammers. Users basically can't be trusted to not give their password out to basically anybody who asks. When you've got 10 or 100 or 1000 users, it's not too bad... when have millions, it's a major issue.
It's not some Google-specific thing, it's an industry standard.
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Re:They also enforced having OAuth2 which blows (Score:4, Informative)
Yeah, your phone being you key to everything is MUCH better and smarter.
I was in my ISPs office the other day (a local telecom) when a girl walked in asking if her phone number could be reactivated.
Apparently, her phone got stolen during summer, she got a new phone and number and... now everything she ever used gmail for doesn't work.
But you know who could? The person who stole her phone.
Cause either her PIN is 0000 or she uses a simple swipe as lock pattern. Or it's unlocked.
You know... like what normal people do.
Not paranoid schizophrenics on the spectrum, constantly fretting whether it is government or the aliens that are after them, trying to probe their butt.
Something I have, ...I know, ...I am doesn't work when two or all three are locked to a single piece of software on top of a single piece of hardware.
In this case all three factors boil down to something one has.
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But you know who could? The person who stole her phone. Cause either her PIN is 0000 or she uses a simple swipe as lock pattern. Or it's unlocked.
Did the guy also ask her what her password was when stealing it? Or maybe the owner bypassed it by using the same pin to remember her password?
The phone isn't a key to everything. It's called TWO Factor Authentication. You have to be quite wilfully silly to screw up that.
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Most people don't put a password on their phone.
And no, it's not really 2-factor. If you have someones phone (of if you've cloned it) you have the keys to the kingdom.
2-factor exists solely to make it EASY to hack people's accounts. It is less secure, not more.
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when a girl walked in asking if her phone number could be reactivated
Was she cute? Did she say she was also locked out of her BitCoin exchange account? Did she say her name is Satoshi Nakamoto?
It works every time. Particularly if the answer to question 1 is 'Yes'.
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I've changed phone numbers a few times in the last five years, and also spent considerable time without a phone number at all.
The only times I've had issues have all been with older offline services. Banks and utility companies.
I don't have a phone number on my Google account. When I activated 2FA I was careful to copy the backup codes into my Keepass database, just in case I somehow lost access to my two phones, my Yubikey and my computers.
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More mail servers (especially large-scale) are requiring OAuth2 and/or other methods that can enforce 2FA due to spammers
DKIM stops spammers just as effectively. Also, OAuth2 isn't true 2FA. It just requires you go get a temporary password from Google every so often. That's not exactly the same thing as a human carrying around an RSA token in their pocket. Ie... if you can automate the 2FA fetching, hackers can too or they will hack your fetching mechanism. So, it's a bunch of half-baked hand-waving. It's a lock-in move, it's not some kind of "needed industry consolidation".
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DKIM doesn't do a thing to stop spammers when they're using compromised accounts on the correct mail server. And OAuth2 can be used for "true" 2FA in any case. It's not at all some kind of "lock-in" - just because your mail client hasn't been updated in a decade to support newer RFCs doesn't mean everybody else's hasn't.
RSA fobs are old-fashioned and not that secure either as it turns out, because users will also enter those codes. That's why newer things are moving to two-way 2FA devices over protocols lik
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RSA fobs are old-fashioned and not that secure either as it turns out, because users will also enter those codes
You sound clueless. "Users will also enter those codes" Whaat? Uhm, yeah, they will need to enter the RSA one-time code. That's how it works, genius. Oauth2 based mail clients just go fetch the Google token (online!) to feed to the authentication request. They don't use "something you have" they use just-another-password you get from someone else not from a device or bit of software only you can physically control. "Old fashioned" RSA tokens do that. Oauth2 pantomimes at it and fails badly. I'd recommend y
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The millions of users are already using the newest stuff. The only reason to force the old stuff to die and lock out the thousands of people who still use it is because of business interests.
By definition, obsolete stuff doesn't need to be killed. It withers and dies on its own. If somebody is killing stuff on purpose, or people are refusing to move to the new stuff, then "security" is not the problem.
Hell, Network Solutions recently disabled my DNS settings and screwed up my web site for a few days beca
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They're NOT doing it to shut down spammers. That's a MYTH. Most spammers use gmail.
They're doing it to shut down YOUR MAIL SERVER.
I've got my own mail server, I've had it longer than google exists. Google (and the other email companies) doesn't want me (or you) to have a mail server, so they put in methods that I can NOT get access to, so I can't use it.
SPAM is the excuse, but it is NOT the reason
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Don't you have a stolen election to complain about?
Uhh, you talking to me? I've never complied about a "stolen election". That's a debate like the abortion debate that I just don't wade into as it's full of imbeciles who cannot tell friend from foe and tend to start swinging before they even know what or who they are talking about (such a person as a mirror would reveal to you). Are you implying that I'm a election denier because I don't trust Google? Kinda reaching a bit for enemies aren't ya? Can't you find plenty of actual election deniers to take swing
Re: They also enforced having OAuth2 which blows (Score:2)
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I agree OAuth2 is a real PITA; I've got a few gmail accounts and it has been getting insane. They don't really seem to want to support POP/IMAP and other non-"gmail.com" web clients. However, there are some options:
I'm not sure if it still be possible to leave 2FA off on an account that it decides is low importance (like if it only ever receives mail from public mailing list subscriptions). It seems to be more and more difficult. In the last few years they added logic that (sometimes) disables access if
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The beatings will continue (Score:2)
We have decided that moral must improve, you have no choice.
The beatings will continue until this goal is achieved.
Signed
Google.
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*morale
(also this quip is very stale)
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So you want software to remain unchanged? Nobody does that, at least, nobody with actual users they want to keep.
Maybe there are some specific changes you'd like to complain about?
Otherwise, I don't understand.
Re:The beatings will continue (Score:4, Insightful)
So you want software to remain unchanged?
Most of the time, yes. Why do people stop using a piece of software? Because of changes!
Remember Windows 8? GNOME 3? The death of Firefox?
Slashdot is the only place you see complaints about an interface looking "dated".
Ordinary people want their computer to keep working the same way forever.
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Yeah, I now. I used to write software used in doctor's offices. Doctors hated it when we came out with new versions. And they also hated bugs and flaws that were in the older versions. They would tell us they wanted the bugs and feature flaws fixed, but they didn't want that in a new version, they wanted it in the old version. Whatever. That's not how software development works.
Oh, and they also wanted that new whizbang thing all the other doctors had in their software. But they still wanted it in the old v
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Craigslist would disagree, though technically it's not software.
If you like, we could try VLC.
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Even Craigslist has introduced new features, such as a phone app https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org] in 2019.
I imagine the old old HTML UI is still available. (Score:5, Informative)
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I was going to mention this as well. The link I have bookmarked is https://mail.google.com/?ui=ht... [google.com] which still seems to work.
Unfortunately, they seem to have removed the ability to set the old HTML version as the default for your account, which I had for a long time until accidentally clicking on the new version which permanently switched to AJAX as default.
Of course, in practice I just use Thunderbird, which gives the bonus of an offline copy (on multiple machines as well) in case of disaster.
Hooray! (Score:5, Funny)
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I find that having too much screen space to work with is oppressive and confusing
Not as confusing as trying to read an email from someone who needed a lot of screen space in order to write it. Some people just need saving from themselves. Kind of like Twitter's character limit.
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Not much difference for normal use (Score:2)
I'm sure there are many tweaks, but for everyday email usage, it seems about the same to me.
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That is me, I do not care at all. I replaced gmail with mail on my own domain due to a change which munged how I used mutt. Now gmail is sharing a room with my yahoo mail. If a site asks for an email, they get the gmail account. Hope google has lots of disk space.
BTW, I only used gmail for BSD mailing lists and a couple of other small lists, now I am much happier without gmail.
Do people really still use web mail? (Score:3)
Hosted by Google?
You are making life very hard for older, less expe (Score:5, Interesting)
I wish these designers would show their latest, greatest ideas not just to the shareholders but also to their grandma who is using the site, because a lot of these changes are making life very hard for older, less experienced users who feel easily overwhelmed by technology and by intricate multi-layered UIs.
Case in point: google chat does not pop-up anymore, it is hiding the fact you got a new message so now you canâ(TM)t send grandma a friendly chat message anymore, she really does not understand your overly complicated UI with its layers and what not, so she doesnâ(TM)t even know there is a chat message waiting - when before the chat would pop up and she would be happy to engage and chat, BECAUSE THE DAMN UI SHOWED HER HER MESSAGES!!! And now it suddenly, silently stopped doing that.
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Re:You are making life very hard for older, less e (Score:4)
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My dad worked as an electrical engineer at GTE in the late 70's and 80's, and pretty much spent his entire career designing computer systems.
His Ford Focus just had a software update, and it took both of us, together, to figure out how to shut the damn radio off. Not joking. There's a big pause button on the LCD screen while music is playing, along with all the other controls, but you have to use the physical buttons on the console to stop playback.
Every UX designer these days should be pushed off a cliff
Best free alternatives from a (pre-Dicedot) POV? (Score:2)
What does the hive mind like for a decent free webmail service?
Yahoo chose to suck and slid to irrelevance.
Google is choosing to go the same way so those who jumped ship to Google now need to escape the inevitable.
Google choosing to suck even more creates exploitable opportunities. Whose webmail service is worthy of patronage?
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Whose webmail service is worthy of patronage?
Fastmail's. On the odd occasion I go back into my gmail account, I wonder how in hell I ever managed to put up with that horrendous interface.
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