Keychron's Q3 Gives Mechanical Keyboard Fans Everything But the Numpad (techcrunch.com) 135
An anonymous reader shares a review: In its early pre-pandemic days, Keychron made a name for itself with its series of affordable mechanical keyboards -- including a few low-profile ones that remain a rarity to this day. Those boards didn't necessarily appeal to enthusiasts, but were more than good enough for most mainstream users who wanted a different kind of keyboard. Last year, Keychron upped the ante with the launch of the Q1, an enthusiast-level, fully customizable hotswap keyboard with a 75% layout that had more than a few similarities to the heavily hyped GMMK Pro. Since then, Keychron has expanded this series with the 65% Q2, which received pretty rave reviews at the time and now the Q3.
The QMK-compatible Q3 clearly follows in the footsteps of the Q1 and Q2. It uses the same double-gasket design that should make for a relatively bouncy typing experience (though in my experience, there's less bounce than I would've expected), and the overall design is pretty much the same, with the exception that it's a tenkeyless (TKL), so you get a full keyboard with standalone arrow keys and a full row of function keys, but without the numpad. The body is made from aluminum and the whole unit weighs in at a hefty 4.5 pounds. In part, that's because Keychron opted for a steel plate here. You can opt to get a bare-bones version where you supply your own switches and keycaps for $154 (or $164 if you want to get the optional volume knob), or a fully assembled version with keycaps and your choice of Gateron Pro Red, Blue or Brown switches for $174 (or $184 with knob). For the extra $20, I think getting the assembled version is a no-brainer, given that the keycaps and switches will cost you significantly more and even if you want to replace them, you could always reuse them in another project (because who only has one keyboard, right?).
The QMK-compatible Q3 clearly follows in the footsteps of the Q1 and Q2. It uses the same double-gasket design that should make for a relatively bouncy typing experience (though in my experience, there's less bounce than I would've expected), and the overall design is pretty much the same, with the exception that it's a tenkeyless (TKL), so you get a full keyboard with standalone arrow keys and a full row of function keys, but without the numpad. The body is made from aluminum and the whole unit weighs in at a hefty 4.5 pounds. In part, that's because Keychron opted for a steel plate here. You can opt to get a bare-bones version where you supply your own switches and keycaps for $154 (or $164 if you want to get the optional volume knob), or a fully assembled version with keycaps and your choice of Gateron Pro Red, Blue or Brown switches for $174 (or $184 with knob). For the extra $20, I think getting the assembled version is a no-brainer, given that the keycaps and switches will cost you significantly more and even if you want to replace them, you could always reuse them in another project (because who only has one keyboard, right?).
What a farce (Score:5, Insightful)
Hard pass
Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)
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There are plenty that will brag about the "must-have" performance of carbon fiber brakes and 1,000+HP engines too.
The fact that premium versions exist, is hardly a reason to assume standard offerings are going extinct, which the Das Keyboard is little more than a Toyota Corolla these days. You can spend a hell of a lot more than that, and get lost in a world many thought would be extinct by now. Like vinyl albums.
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And yet, the standard stick shift is almost extinct, to the detriment of drivers everywhere. What possible fun can it be to drive a Porsche or Alfa Romeo and have to rely on lines of code thinking it knows what you want to do?
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The standard stick shift is going extinct for the same reason DIY car maintenance is.
People are lazy.
And if people were too lazy to type (many are), keyboards would be extinct too.
And besides, it's kind of hard to reply to a tweet, send an email, and livestream on Facebook if you're also having to grab gears. Paying attention while driving to avoid killing yourself or others is annoying enough for the smartphone generation.
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People are lazy.
You make that sound like a bad thing. That's how progress happens.
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People are lazy.
You make that sound like a bad thing. That's how progress happens.
Thinking like that is the reason obesity is now glamorized instead of viewed as the considerable life-threatening hazard it is. Can't wait to see what Peak Lazy turns humans into. We'll see of the laws of attraction can stretch quite as far as this "progressive" delusion.
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At least in the Anglophone world, obesity is not glamorized in the mainstream.
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On average, driving a manual makes me pay more attention, but only slightly. Once I know what the engine is supposed to sound like, it's pretty easy to automatically keep it in its happy zone without too much thought, or having to read the gauges. But when the shit hits the fan and I really would rather have both hands on the wheel, it becomes a liability. So it works both ways.
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I should add that even with an automatic, I'm still listening to the same engine noises to know (without looking) that I need to force a downshift. So the only remaining advantage to a manual that I can think of is that in a panic stop or engine runaway situation, you can completely decouple the engine from the wheels in a big hurry -- but the flip side is that YOU have to remember to do this. Sometimes it's better to have a dumb system that does it a little bit late, but more reliably than a human.
Re:What a farce (Score:4, Informative)
The stick shift is going obsolete because the advantage isn't there anymore. 5-6 gears is nothing compared to modern automatic gearboxes with 8, 9, 10 or more gears to choose from. Thus making the traditional manual a compromise in picking gear ratios that will be useful.
Dual clutch autosticks managing the gearbox allow for this as well - they can have a ton of gears without a wildly nuts gear shifter.
This makes the old traditional gearbox basically a non-starter anymore.
And even the pros basically have gotten rid of the manual transmission - sure they shift manually but the actual shifting is handled by the computer, giving you lots of gears and the quick shift times of 100ms or so to the next or previous gear.
The only advantage a manual gearbox brings to the party these days is simplicity. Not fuel consumption because having lots of gears negates that when the engine can run in the efficient zone, not in "sportiness" because there's plenty of ratios to choose from to make it 'fun'. The manual gearbox is now a compromise of gear ratios - the car manufacturer has to pick 5 gear ratios and that's it.
Everything else from fuel economy and such, the computer is superior in practically all conditions. There's probably an edge case somewhere, but people who encounter it can override the computer's decision and force a shift.
Hell, even semi trucks come with automatic transmissions nowadays.
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Completely off topic, but I agree. With all the regulations cars now have to comply with a computer managed double clutch gearbox is the only viable option. Just as efficient as a manual box, and the ECU can select the most suitable gear for 99% of conditions. The other 1% will still need manual gear selection, diff locks, and winter tyres.
Mechanical keyboards are like 4-speed auto boxes. Clunky (well, clicky) and not particularly efficient from my perspective.
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Yeah, and you know how we still like to call them "drivers"? That's a non-starter too. You ride in an automatic. You sure as hell don't drive it.
You still need to give throttle, brake and steering inputs. There's more to driving than a clutch.
And if efficiency were the only goal with cars, all of them would look the exact same, and be electric. Rather pointless to discuss the pros and cons of transmissions when gears are rapidly becoming obsolete.
Being in the right power band has performance benefits too, not just efficiency. And electric cars don't preclude transmissions. Just because Tesla doesn't use them doesn't mean other manufacturers don't.
My daily driver is a manual. That doesn't mean I can't appreciate that there are better ways of doing things.
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That doesn't mean I can't appreciate that there are better ways of doing things.
Since modern cars are fully expected and capable of lasting many miles, I believe "better" is ultimately defined by longevity and maintenance cost for the owner. I've put 200,000+ miles on my manual transmission cars, do most of my own maintenance, and have never replaced a clutch. For me, maintaining a manual transmission has become the better option. It isn't for everyone.
The added enjoyment of actually driving the car, is merely a bonus in an era that is rapidly working to eradicate all those other in
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For me, maintaining a manual transmission has become the better option.
You're begging the question. My parent's ancient Mitsubishi automatic also has about the km equivalent of 200000 miles on it. Pretty much everything has gone wrong with that car at some point or another, but they've never once needed to repair the transmission.
The added enjoyment of actually driving the car
There's nothing fun about owning a car with a manual transmission while stuck in traffic. Enjoyment comes on the racecourse, other than that driving a car is the single most mundane and painful experience most people subject themselves to daily.
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I've always loved driving cars / trucks / motorcycles and have always been somewhat fascinated by the idea that driving is a net negative experience for someone. You describe it as painful even. Not all of us feel that way about it. My vehicles have always been one of my escapes. Granted, I grew up in the midwest of the US, so even average drive times to school or work were fifteen to thirty minutes of cruising in relatively light traffic. I'm not a fan of big traffic stop-ups, but have rarely been stuck in
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the standard stick shift is almost extinct, to the detriment of drivers everywhere.
There is also the electric car factor - the shift stick is going away for good.
Until my last car I drove shift stick exclusively, and liked it. I recently switched to an electric model, and got introduced to the joys of single pedal driving (set the braking regeneration on high, lift your foot from the accelerator and the car brakes - all the way to a full stop if you want, all without touching the brake pedal). I have to say it's rather nice after you get used to it. And, since the electric has lots of pow
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What possible fun can it be to drive a Porsche or Alfa Romeo and have to rely on lines of code thinking it knows what you want to do?
If that is your criteria for fun I'll happily take a modern Porsche off your hands and sell you my old piece of shit hatchback. Seriously you don't think driving performance cars is fun unless you're manually shifting? Is that like the car equivalent of "I only read Playboy for the articles"?
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Pressing a pedal does not equal driving. There is not the same level of control with an automatic as there is with a manual car. The example I always use is if I put my car in third gear it will stay in third gear until either I shift into a different gear or I destroy the engine.
But that is my choice, not lines of code which invariably get the situation wrong because it thinks it knows more than I do.
Like so many things with technology, it now gets in the way far more than it helps, and when it comes to
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poor analogy, this is like buying a 1000$ steering wheel to go on a Toyota Camry as I bet the target audience is more likely to plug it into a macbook air
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Indeed. This thing is excessively priced.
I do have made negative experience with abysmally stupid design in Das Keyboard though. They run the backlight with a 500Hz (or so) PWN and basically have no filters in there. Created enough distortion on the audio circuit that I had to hard disable it (cut trace). Obviously amateurs at work. Putting in Kahil Gold did work fine though.
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I use an external DAC so I don't have to worry about this, even a cheap one is usually a lot better than what's in a PC (I have an M-Audio Mobile Pre USB.) And my motherboard has a filtered USB where I plug it in. With a gold plated cable ;)
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Actually this was strong enough to get both into a PCI-E sound card and an USB sound card, both about in the same price-range as yours. Since I do not care to have a lit keyboard, just cutting it fixed that for me. If I ever want a lit one, I am prepared to filter myself now or put in real true analog voltage regulation. It really is not hard to do. The idiots responsible for the firmware of this DAS KEYBOARD model probably used Arduino to make that keyboard software, and Arduino only has a slow PWM out of
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The one technology that *might* merit higher-priced switches would be a keyboard with switches like the ORIGINAL PC-XT's keyboard had... buckling-spring, but capacitive switches instead of the Model-M's underlying membrane.
IMHO, the "original" XT's switches were mechanically superior to everything that's come out since... but those switches were also breathtakingly expensive to manufacture, even when IBM had some semblance of economies of scale.
I missed the window to buy one, but a year or three ago, someon
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Oh, wow... I just hit Google to look up the keyboards I mentioned in my earlier post, and discovered that they're doing another round of orders this month... and they're about a hundred bucks cheaper than I thought they were. https://www.modelfkeyboards.co... [modelfkeyboards.com]
I'm torn about buying one, though, for three major reasons (two of which are more or less insurmountable and non-negotiable):
* They omitted the function keys. Sure, you can access 'function key' functionality by holding the 'Fn' key and pressing '1'..'0
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I'm typing on a new model F77 as we speak. Built as a tank, easily serviceable, touch like it was 1981.
The lack of function keys can be alleviated by using the so-called tap-dance QMK extension, it allows for triggering the function keys using either:
- Holding down the key for longer than 250ms will produce a function key.
- Double tapping the key produces the function key right away.
As for the backtick/tilde and escape, there are other solutions for that, as in (not necessarily exclusive):
- Ctrl key tapped
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All capacitive sensing keyboards have n-key rollover.
Unfortunately the guys who make the new clone Model Fs only do compact models. You have to choose between a num pad and special keys, you can't have both. I'd rather take a slightly less nice feeling Model M, which is still excellent in comparison to almost everything else out there, simply because I use those keys a lot.
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Thinking back to college, I fondly remember the "quiet" Model-M variant with greased springs IBM sold to libraries.
A neat trick which dampens the spring-ringing-sound is using Oral B Superfloss: just insert them in the center of the springs (30 to 60 minutes of work for the whole keyboard).
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Unicomp bought IBM's equipment and still makes good buckling springs keyboards - this is being typed on one now. They're actually not expensive.
https://www.pckeyboard.com/pag... [pckeyboard.com]
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"Das" sells really, really, shit keyboards
you can also buy a lifetime supply of aspirin with that 100, i fail to see the benefit of either
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If this is a success, then yeah, that's the reason why, and I may find it necessary to switch to a cheap rubber dome membrane keyboard on principle. Urgh!
When you are at it then switch to something ergonomic like Kinesis Advantage or Maltron 3D. Or something split like e.g. Ergodox at least. Not a generic ANSI/ISO layout and their variants.
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You apparently skimmed the article too quickly and did not check the web site [keychron.com].
The price is $174 fully assembled (ANSI), i.e. with keys.
And it does have RGB backlighting.
The "barebone" without keys costs $164 with knob and $154 without.
A big difference between this and "mainstream mechanical" keyboards like the ones you will see from Corsair, Cooler Master or Razer (yuk) is that it is an actual aluminium case, which has been CNC-milled from a block of aluminium: Those don't come cheap.
Other mass-produced key
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What functionality is provided by the CNC block of aluminum chasis? I have a basic Corsair Keyboard, made out of plastic (might have a metal base plate, haven't checked), and it is plenty solid, with almost flex, eve if I pick it up and try to twist it in my hands. If I'm just typing on it, there is zero flex.
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I picked up a Keychron C2 myself, and have been quite happy with it. It is all in what you are looking for.
I don't know why someone would prioritize one without a numpad, but I guess everyone has their own preference.
I also can't see where the cost of this one comes from, the C2 I bought, was $59 with the switches and has a white backlight, but this one is more than 3x the cost, and it isn't even like it is wireless to explain it.
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As for the price different, there are a number of features that would raise the price. RGB raises the version you have by $10, so it's an easy one to account for. This also has QMK/VIA support, so you can software update the function of the keys on the fly. I know there are differences in construct
No numpad, no thanks (Score:4, Informative)
Re:No numpad, no thanks (Score:5, Funny)
I have an far more future-proof solution for that numpad problem of yours.
Convert to IPv6.
You'll grow to hate typing IP addresses on anything instead.
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Fuck numpads. Never used them, they just take up space.
That said, this doesn't look any good, and is too expensive even if it was.
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It depends on what you are used to. I can type faster with the normal number keys. Perhaps because I am more used to them.
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"used to" being the key word. The num pad is just the right tool for the job when entering in numbers beyond a couple of digits but yes you have to be used to it. Once one is used to it though there is just no comparison in terms of speed on the num pad where everything is nicely grouped versus spread out across the top of the keyboard. It's why people like accountants (who do excessive amounts of numeric data entry) use inputs that are grouped like the standard 10 key and not with the keys all spread out l
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Alt-codes don't work in Linux.
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That's just like, your opinion, man.
Numpad, or no numpad: it's a preference. Nothing else.
You either use it, or you don't.
If you don't, you don't need it.
If you need it, you don't buy this keyboard.
It's that simple.
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yes there are lots of options out there for this, look for programable keypads and there are different sizes/shapes/everything
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on second thought, im not sure you could do "chord" style input with them, but since they are programmable it may just depend on the software
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I think it was Cooler Master that had a keyboard that omitted the cursor pad section instead of the tenkey section, and Number Lock converted it between the two purposes. The conversion wasn't the usual mapping, either -- the NumLock Off keys were laid out in the usual block of six and inverted T layout, with two "dead keys". This is pretty much what I want and have been trying to emulate using programmable keyboards, but they're not programmable enough to do what I want without another layer like Auto HotK
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Tiny keyboards suck, and I spend a disproportionate amount of my time keying in IP addresses. Numpads are essential, on desktop keyboards and on laptops. Accept no substitutes!
I just got used to typing numbers with the number row. Including constantly having to work with IP addresses. It took some getting used to but even now on desktop computers I don't use the numpad much and if I could find one of those original IBM M keyboards that lacked the number pad for a decent price I'd probably pick one up.
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Speak for yourself. I work as a (certified) translator. Translating stuff such as school transcripts and balance sheets quickly disabuse one of ideas such as yours. Keypads could be, and can be, essential. That's wy even laptops (bigger ones) began carrying them, even. Celebrating that keyboards now tend to be without them is like celbrating Apple for ditching the earphone jack in their cell
totally-not-an-ad (Score:5, Insightful)
What's with the ad?
I might understand if it was something new on the market but it isn't.
And my 75% mechanical keyboard was both cheaper and has programmable back lighting.
That's a fucking ripoff. (Score:4, Insightful)
I paid $130 for a full layout keyboard with gateron red switches, red backlighting, doubleshot keys, and steel plate. They are asking far too much for a partial layout with no backlight, even given swappable switches.
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Wut? (Score:3)
"...affordable mechanical keyboards..."
(I don't think that word means what you think it means.)
FTFA: "...You can opt to get a bare-bones version where you supply your own switches and keycaps for $154 (or $164 if you want to get the optional volume knob), or a fully assembled version with keycaps and your choice of Gateron Pro Red, Blue or Brown switches for $174 (or $184 with knob)...."
LOL. $154 for a keyboard that YOU SUPPLY THE SWITCHES or $174 with them.
Stupid thing to waste your $ on. At $50 the LOGITECH G413 is vastly better performing, looks a crapton better, and you could burn through THREE of them and still have change left over than the Q3. My son loves his (personally, I'm still using a fabulous G15 that remains absolutely perfect.)
Unicomp is even cheaper (Score:3)
As many have already said, you can get a good mechanical keyboard with backlights for the same or cheaper.
Mechanicals are no longer "niche" products, everybody and their mother makes one. When fucking Logtiech starts making them it's pretty clear they are no longer "cool". Hell my dad has one and he's over 70.
Even if you don't care about backlighting you can get the Unicomp original IBM buckling spring keyboard for a mere $104 [pckeyboard.com]. You can't put a price on that sound and annoying your co-workers.
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You can't put a price on that sound and annoying your co-workers.
My co-worker had one of those. You could tell when he was on a textual rampage because it sounded like he was gunning down the entire room.
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I went to their site... (Score:4, Informative)
But KeyChron's site actually has some attractive options. A fully mechanical, wired keyboard with hot-swap switches for less than $60, nor non-hot-swap for less than $50
https://www.keychron.com/colle... [keychron.com]
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Not everyone considers wires a upside. I certainly don't. I still have a wired keyboard up in the attic for the very odd occasion I need to access the UEFI interface which doesn't support bluetooth.
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Not everyone considers wires a upside. I certainly don't. I still have a wired keyboard up in the attic for the very odd occasion I need to access the UEFI interface which doesn't support bluetooth.
So you do consider wires an up-side. Yes, I'm joking with you.
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I prefer wireless keyboards. I wish Unicomp made a wireless Model M.
The early ones had issues but these days I don't have any problems. Same with mice. I switched to using NiMH rechargable batteries years ago, aside from the environmental benefit they don't leak very often like alkalines do. Eneloop (and rebrands like IKEA) hold their charge for years so I keep a few charged up in a drawer, ready to be swapped in.
More affordable functional equivalents (Score:2)
Over the past two years, for different computers, I've bought two iKBC CD87 V2 with Cherry MX Clear switches. Feels great, sufficiently clicky/tactile without being too loud for a home office or, umm..., an office office. Heavy enough that it isn't going anywhere. Escape key in the correct place. There's not much more to ask for.
Before buying the first of these I tried a Das Keyboard, and very quickly returned that misdesigned antipattern of human-computer interaction. The metal lip around the entire th
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Before buying the first of these I tried a Das Keyboard, and very quickly returned that misdesigned antipattern of human-computer interaction. The metal lip around the entire thing, particularly the front edge near the spacebar, was sharp and uncomfortable if your finger happened to come to rest on it (I unconsciously move an unused thumb to the front edge of a keyboard). Some nincompoop designer went the form over basic human function route -- the thing is actively hostile to use. Might as well have just incorporated chainsaw teeth into the thing and called it complete.
I was in the same boat. Love the keyboard but the metal sucks. Too sharp and too cold. Nearly sent it back but ended up getting one of those long skinny wrist rest pads to put in front of it. That solved everything and das ended up being by far my favorite.
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I was in the same boat. Love the keyboard but the metal sucks. Too sharp and too cold. Nearly sent it back but ended up getting one of those long skinny wrist rest pads to put in front of it. That solved everything and das ended up being by far my favorite.
I think my issue is that I don't rest my wrists on a surface when typing, but hover my wrists instead (better practice to help avoid developing inflammation in the wrist). In that case my thumb naturally goes to the front edge of the keyboard to help root/index/locate/anchor (pick your favorite terminology) my entire hand for touch-typing. In any case, the Das Keyboard was not compatible with that practice.
Das keyboard (Score:3)
No thanks (Score:4, Informative)
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Have you ever had problems with the underlying membrane itself eventually starting to crap out?
I have a few Model M keyboards manufactured between 1987 and 1995 (the 1995 model has a Trackpoint). Over time, they all eventually started developing problems & ended up in my "keyboards to properly rebuild or refurbish someday" pile:
* One of them has what appears to be a literal problem with the ps/2 interface circuit.
* Two of them seem to have had membranes that just started wearing out due to years and yea
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mechanical (Score:2)
I've been typing on keyboards for decades. What am I missing with mechanical keyboards? I honestly don't get it. The keyboard just needs to allow me to type quickly and nothing else. The more the keyboard fades into the background and out of the way the better. I don't want annoying key clicks. What am I missing?
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I was the same until about ~10 years ago. The only difference? Once you go mechanical, you can never go back.
It's like driving old Fiat to work every day for past 20 years... and you're not missing anything - it takes you from point A to point B. Then you replace it with Mercedes and it still takes you from point A to point B. But you'll never want to drive a Fiat anymore.
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When I was a kid I used to play with my parents typewriter. On the typewriter you had to bottom out the keys or the letters didn't register properly. I guess I'd rather have a quiet keyboard over a loud one with just the right springy-ness. I just make sure I have the same keyboard at home and at work.
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My first typewriter was fully manual, but then I was 8 years old. It was well past obsolete already, but it did work, and it was still marginally faster than handwriting for verbose homework (obviously pretty useless for math). It took a long time to unlearn the goose-stepping motion required to operate such keys.
not for me (Score:2)
i have the numpad digits mapped to be virtual workspace selectors. so, those keys are critical to me. gotta have 'em
Why would I need a mechanical keyboard fan? (Score:2)
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you are not typing fast enough
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If you smoke after sex, you're doing it too fast.
I like mechanical keyboards (Score:2)
I am not religious about them, when I need to update and can find a decent one for a decent price and has ... ya know ... all the keys (seriously I havent had a computer without a keypad since my dad's Apple //e, ) I will gladly buy one.
The issue always seems to be price and or quality, a lot of the mainstream brands tend to be expensive and cheaply made, and the premium models are expensive while lacking keys and or features.
The one I am using now was a 149$ MSRP, someone dropped it and one of the "OS" / "
No thanks (Score:2)
Taking the piss here... (Score:2)
I've been through so many keyboards over the years, still got an ancient Das keyboard, but as I've aged, my hands now get incredibly painful after hours of typing, so I went in search of a low profile mechanical keyboard.
After a lot of near hits and many misses, I ended up with the Keychron K1 - which suited my needs.
Not perfect, but there wasn't much else on the market that was low profile.
That was relatively cheap - I think $70 when I got it. I did want the full size, but no stock at the time.
I've now got
Silence my most important quality (Score:2)
The thing most important to me is silence. The quietest keyboard I have found so far is the Apple aluminum wired.
Any other suggestions gratefully received.
The Apple is OK, but they are not very durable and I have been through a couple of them without very intense use. But they are so far the quietest I have found.
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Try the Matias Quiet Pro keyboards. Best compromise between tactile keys and silence.
Numpadless (Score:2)
I must say I like the dropping of the numpad. I've been looking at these mini keyboards, but I miss the arrow keys and such, but I think I could definitely live without a numpad.
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TKL will retain the arrow keys, 75% has the arrow keys plus a few of the cluster above them (INS, DEL, HOME, END), even 65% keyboards still have the arrow keys - once you get down to 60% you start losing that stuff, but most of the higher end ones allow you to reprogram keys to be anything you want
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I am 10 months older than the keyboard and 4 years older than that song.
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These are older than you!
Well the bragging was certainly good to a point. Thanks for making me and a few others feel oh so young again.
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I guess I don't understand the desktop computer keyboard backlighting trend. But then again I'm using an IBM M13 at work.
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