Far-Right Platform Gab Has Been Hacked (wired.com) 208
The far-right social media platform Gab says a trove of its contents has been stolen in a security breach -- including passwords and private communications. Wired reports: On Sunday night the WikiLeaks-style group Distributed Denial of Secrets is revealing what it calls GabLeaks, a collection of more than 70 gigabytes of Gab data representing more than 40 million posts. DDoSecrets says a hacktivist who self-identifies as "JaXpArO and My Little Anonymous Revival Project" siphoned that data out of Gab's backend databases in an effort to expose the platform's largely right-wing users. Those Gab patrons, whose numbers have swelled after Parler went offline, include large numbers of Qanon conspiracy theorists, white nationalists, and promoters of former president Donald Trump's election-stealing conspiracies that resulted in the January 6 riot on Capitol Hill.
DDoSecrets cofounder Emma Best says that the hacked data includes not only all of Gab's public posts and profiles -- with the exception of any photos or videos uploaded to the site -- but also private group and private individual account posts and messages, as well as user passwords and group passwords. "It contains pretty much everything on Gab, including user data and private posts, everything someone needs to run a nearly complete analysis on Gab users and content," Best wrote in a text message interview with WIRED. "It's another gold mine of research for people looking at militias, neo-Nazis, the far right, QAnon, and everything surrounding January 6." DDoSecrets says it's not publicly releasing the data due to its sensitivity and the vast amounts of private information it contains. Instead the group says it will selectively share it with journalists, social scientists, and researchers.
According to DDoSecrets' Best, the hacker says that they pulled out Gab's data via a SQL injection vulnerability in the siteâ"a common web bug in which a text field on a site doesn't differentiate between a user's input and commands in the site's code, allowing a hacker to reach in and meddle with its backend SQL database. Despite the hacker's reference to an "Anonymous Revival Project," they're not associated with the loose hacker collective Anonymous, they told Best, but do "want to represent the nameless struggling masses against capitalists and fascists." The company's CEO, Andrew Torba, responded in a public statement on the company's blog that "reporters, who write for a publication that has written many hit pieces on Gab in the past, are in direct contact with the hacker and are essentially assisting the hacker in his efforts to smear our business and hurt you, our users."
DDoSecrets cofounder Emma Best says that the hacked data includes not only all of Gab's public posts and profiles -- with the exception of any photos or videos uploaded to the site -- but also private group and private individual account posts and messages, as well as user passwords and group passwords. "It contains pretty much everything on Gab, including user data and private posts, everything someone needs to run a nearly complete analysis on Gab users and content," Best wrote in a text message interview with WIRED. "It's another gold mine of research for people looking at militias, neo-Nazis, the far right, QAnon, and everything surrounding January 6." DDoSecrets says it's not publicly releasing the data due to its sensitivity and the vast amounts of private information it contains. Instead the group says it will selectively share it with journalists, social scientists, and researchers.
According to DDoSecrets' Best, the hacker says that they pulled out Gab's data via a SQL injection vulnerability in the siteâ"a common web bug in which a text field on a site doesn't differentiate between a user's input and commands in the site's code, allowing a hacker to reach in and meddle with its backend SQL database. Despite the hacker's reference to an "Anonymous Revival Project," they're not associated with the loose hacker collective Anonymous, they told Best, but do "want to represent the nameless struggling masses against capitalists and fascists." The company's CEO, Andrew Torba, responded in a public statement on the company's blog that "reporters, who write for a publication that has written many hit pieces on Gab in the past, are in direct contact with the hacker and are essentially assisting the hacker in his efforts to smear our business and hurt you, our users."
Bobby Tables (Score:5, Funny)
The company's CEO, Andrew Torba, responded in a public statement on the company's blog that "reporters, who write for a publication that has written many hit pieces on Gab in the past, are in direct contact with the hacker and are essentially assisting the hacker in his efforts to smear our business and hurt you, our users."
Which may very well be true, but your site was still hacked by Bobby Tables [xkcd.com].
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By his mom I believe. First thing I thought of when I read the article.
Well done with a great first post.
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I've been assuming this article is truthful- after all, we've seen a lot of rightwing websites (or alot of rightwing websites, if you'd like to picture an alot with a bunch of stupid alt-web labels all over it) get turned off by banks, turned off by Visa and Mastercard, had their web hosting pulled, had their virtual machines pulled, had their domain names stolen, and last I checked there was a guy on twitter trying to find whomever owned the building that gab's physical servers were in, in a hilarious thre
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or alot of rightwing websites, if you'd like to picture an alot with a...
http://hyperboleandahalf.blogs... [blogspot.com]
Re:Bobby Tables (Score:4, Interesting)
Ah, because every attack on the far right is clearly being controlled by the secretive Lamestream Media Cabal! No one on a conspiratorial mindset ever goes for the simplest option, Occam being a foreigner and all.
The funniest I heard yesterday was the guy at CPAC claiming that Biden was just a puppet of ... wait for it ... Obama! "It's so obvious but no one sees it!" Seriously, the most sinister guy behind the scenes he could think of was Obama??? At least the guy claiming China was pulling Biden's strings could possibly be scary if true. But Obama pulling the streams, possibly one of the most popular presidents ever, and also a very centrist guy like Biden, is decidedly not very scary at all (although mixed-race is a scary concept to some people). I mean even Hillary in pastel pant suits controlling Biden from a email server in the basement of a pizza parlor is scarier than Obama.
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The funniest I heard yesterday was the guy at CPAC claiming that Biden was just a puppet of ... wait for it ... Obama!
The funniest I heard, in person, during a taxi ride in a foreign country where I really didn't want to upset the driver, just before Obama was elected, the driver informed me that Obama was a muslim. But not just any muslim, he was a jewish muslim, and they are the worst kind of muslims! I nodded, he dropped me off where I needed to get, I left and I just couldn't believe the stupidity.
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He also referred to them as "demonic tranny hackers" in a tweet, so... Maybe not the best source of info on this one.
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Unlike you, she sanitizes her inputs.
They did it on purpose (Score:4, Insightful)
By leaking all this info including passwords, now the ring leaders have a plausible deniability. Any incriminating evidence the Fed turns up will be blamed on the hackers who planted it after the breach.
These QAnon puppet masters are far more sinister fiends than the dimwitted QAnon puppets. Never confuse the two.
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All the dimwits and morons they arrested claim Trump told them it was ok to storm the capitol.
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All the dimwits and morons they arrested claim Trump told them it was ok to storm the capitol.
I'm guessing that would be an example of an unlawful order ... The President is suppose to enforce the law, not break it or encourage others to break it -- and storming The Capital building certainly falls under that. Even doing so under the guise of righting a (perceived) wrong (of a "stolen" election) doesn't make it right or lawful. I'm also guessing any arguments to the effect of the above as a defense would/will get ignored by the courts.
Yep, the president is just another employee (Score:2)
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he gets a little more security because he's a high value assassination target but at the end of the day he's just another US Citizen. Nothing special about him and he is in no way above the law.
Anyone tell the previous President that? Asking for +81M voters ... :-)
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Well, after so many decades of breaking the law I doubt he's going to let such a petty thing get in his way.
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All the dimwits and morons they arrested claim Trump told them it was ok to storm the capitol.
I'm guessing that would be an example of an unlawful order ... The President is suppose to enforce the law, not break it or encourage others to break it -- and storming The Capital building certainly falls under that. Even doing so under the guise of righting a (perceived) wrong (of a "stolen" election) doesn't make it right or lawful. I'm also guessing any arguments to the effect of the above as a defense would/will get ignored by the courts.
I'm pretty sure that as Trump sees it the law does not apply to him. However, considering how fond he is of using lawsuits as a bludgeon to get his way, the law does in his estimation seem to apply to everybody else.
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Fortunately a trial was held on this very topic and acquitted President Trump.
Noting that an Impeachment Trial is a political event, not a judicial one -- there's big a difference.
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You need to read the transcript of his speech, ...
I watched his speech and you're correct, he didn't literally tell people to storm the building, but he and the other speakers definitely egged them on to behave badly and many people in the crowd -- as heard in various video clips from the crowd themselves -- interpreted Trump/other's words/rhetoric (rightly or wrongly) as permission and encouragement to behave badly. They may have planned things in advance, but they wouldn't have proceeded if they didn't believe that's what Trump wanted, again rightly or
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he was not the cause of it.
Many of the rioters said they did it because "Trump told them to". This was in videos before and during the riot, as well as in legal documanets afterwards.
I think what you are saying is, "wow, those rioters are so stupid. They have no idea why they rioted or what they were thinking. *I*, however, know exactly what they were thinking when they rioted!" 10/10 for elitism, 2/10 for making sense.
The impeachment was not "Trump's speech that day incited the riot", it was "Trump's actions since before the ele
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Part of this is actually baffling. The excuse that the President told them to do something is absurd. Did they hop to attention when Obama, Bush, or Clinton spoke? I doubt it. Do they think that the Commander in Chief can give orders to civilans? The Commander in Chief can't even give direct orders to actual soldiers. There's little reason for anyone, even supporters, to lift a finger merely because a mere human being suggested something should happen. These people sound almost like the brownshirts (no
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Don't worry pretty much every judge has rolled their eyes at this defense.
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not the Firefly guys
They were Brown Coats, not brownshirts. I know way too much trivia.
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I know I took a new interest in cigars when Bill Clinton made them seem fun again.
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There are no puppet masters. It's a Distributed Denial Of Sanity attack.
Someone starts posting QAnon stuff as a joke. The early "encrypted" posts are consistent with someone mashing a QWERTY keyboard. It becomes a meme, and then a movement in the GOP. Members of the GOP, seeing it as an opportunity to boost their own profile and campaign funds, join in. The rhetoric keeps ramping up, they keep hinting at great things to come, building up Trump as the saviour of the United States, a genius winning a 4D game
Another one bites the dust (Score:3, Funny)
Gab's not done (Score:5, Informative)
I'm on Gab. Not a single user has freaked out about this that I have seen. Far more users laughing it off and saying "bound to happen, change your passwords."
Gab absorbed a lot of Parler users, but Gab was already big before Parler went down. The Gab old guard are actually closer to the left than mainstream conservatives in understanding how the interwebz work. The normies who flooded from Parler are also now eyes wide open.
TL;DR Gab's not going down over this.
Quit fantasizing AmiJoJo (Score:3)
Gab's involvement was negligible. The sort of people who stormed the Capitol didn't even know what Gab was and were typical idiot Boomers and Gen Xers who knew fuckall about technology.
I know, and you lefties haven't see anything yet. The Reaganites and Rockefeller Republicans have lost the party to people like Trump
Here, I can recreate 90% of content: (Score:2, Troll)
Re:Here, I can recreate 90% of content: (Score:4, Insightful)
Don't make that same rookie error. This is what is contributing the decline of our society.
Because you could easily end up looking as foolish as your 'oppenents' [sic]
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It looks to me like your "result" will actually be an unexpected EOF.
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That being said, I do notice that people who watch a lot of Fox News subscribe to most of its reoccurring viewpoints/themes as-is
How many people have you surveyed? How did that compare to CNN/MSNBC viewers etc? I have both in my extended family and they are too dumb to work out that they are carbon copies of each other, just wearing a different team jerseys.
If they believed Fox was spinning 60+% of the time, they probably wouldn't bother to watch much to begin with.
You have correctly identified that some people are being manipulated by media, but you stopped short of realising that you are probably a victim of the exact same thing. Orange Man Bad! Eveyone who doesn't agree with us is racist! Remember the movie The Sixth Sense? Each side Bruc
Hypocrisy is strong in this one (Score:2)
"reporters, who write for a publication that has written many hit pieces on Gab in the past, are in direct contact with the hacker and are essentially assisting the hacker in his efforts to smear our business and hurt you, our users."
For someone who likes to claim their site is a free speech zone, it's hilarious how he thinks people are trying to smear his business and hurt his users by displaying that free speech.
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You can't have an echo chamber if someone keeps kicking open the door.
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Except that they are trying to smear his business and even shut him down because he's committed to free speech, unlike Twitter and Facebook.
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The sad part is that if you look at the actual accusations by the prosecution in the cases of the Jan 6th event, Facebook was used much more than Gab or Parler to coordinate their activities.
But hey, gotta stop that free speech competition however they can, eh?
Not free speech (Score:2)
Good facts vs real facts [youtube.com] fascist propaganda is not truly free speech.
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"reporters, who write for a publication that has written many hit pieces on Gab in the past, are in direct contact with the hacker and are essentially assisting the hacker in his efforts to smear our business and hurt you, our users."
For someone who likes to claim their site is a free speech zone, it's hilarious how he thinks people are trying to smear his business and hurt his users by displaying that free speech.
Why do so many people not understand how free speech works? The quote you provided is also free speech, since he is free to tell his users his opinion of the matter.
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I never said what he said isn't free speech. What I said was about his whining.
"You are free to say whatever you want on this site."
"Oh no! People are going to use what we say on this site against us!"
Yeah buddy, that's how free speech works. You are free to say whatever you want. You are not free from the consequences of that speech.
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I never said what he said isn't free speech. What I said was about his whining.
"You are free to say whatever you want on this site."
"Oh no! People are going to use what we say on this site against us!"
Yeah buddy, that's how free speech works. You are free to say whatever you want. You are not free from the consequences of that speech.
For instance, when someone who disagrees with one of your incalculably astute alcohol-fueled assertions, they are not necessarily protected from your close contact, spittle-riddled, derision of their, rather likely, uninformed opinion.
Re:Hypocrisy is strong in this one (Score:4, Informative)
I never said what he said isn't free speech. What I said was about his whining.
You said it was hypocrisy. Since whining is part free speech there is no hypocrisy.
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As a follow up to my previous comment, this is a perfect illustration. Free speech and its consequences [9cache.com].
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How...? (Score:4, Interesting)
I mean... after all these years of hammering on SQL injection... with the languages now all but forcing you into prepared statements / parametrized queries... how does a major NEW site like this (no legacy code) use unsafe queries? Surely the people putting this site together are somewhat talented. How is this even possible?
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Because people are imperfect and their code is imperfect. That's how it's possible.
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Imperfect doesn't account for this error anymore. You actively need to maliciously ignore the coding 101 classes on how to use SQL to make this mistake. Kind of like people being imperfect doesn't account of someone using a 15 condition long If then elseif statement because they don't know of a select case.
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"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former"
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I don't know!!!
I don't even code, I even *I* know the parable of little Bobby Tables. There's no excuse for any system holding personal identifying information to be susceptible to SQL injection.
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I'm equally confused.
I swear it would take more effort these days to be able to write something susceptable to SQL injection than it would be to write something that's not.
Maybe it was somebody who didn't believe in fangled libraries and did things with the most basic framework elements for the sake of low level purity.
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wtf? The project manager doesn't need to know prepared statements exist. The users don't need to know, the project sponsor doesn't need to know, the test team don't need to know and the CIO doesn't need to know.
The people that designed and developed the interactions between application and database need to know, and need to do that interaction properly. If they're working to a spec that doesn't require prepared statements then they can challenge the spec, implement the spec using prepared statements anyway
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And by the way, this could have been prevented by any number of obvious things, like WAF, in-house pair programming, co
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How is this even possible?
I imagine the people who put that site together glued together a bunch of 3rd-party components that appeared to function, but at least one of those 3rd-party components used inline SQL instead of prepared statements/parameterized queries. I takes only ONE inline SQL oversight to compromise an entire website.
Another far right platform I've never heard of (Score:2)
Future /. headlines:
"Apple pulls Gab from the app store"
"Apple pulls RWChat from the app store"
"Apple pulls Zwzzwoozoo from the App store"
Learn to code (Score:2)
I'm running a book on ... (Score:2)
How what IP addresses will track back to North Korea.
Play your bets...
Hacked by incredibly anti-Western nutjob (Score:2)
Hacker "JaXpArO" says, "FUCK TRUMP. FUCK COLONIZERS & CAPITALISTS. DEATH TO AMERIKKKA" (sic). https://www.wired.com/story/ga... [wired.com]. But while irresponsible actors in the media lazily attack Gab as "far-right," they appear to not consider the above at all problematic or extremist.
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Bull. (Score:2)
"Selectively Share" (Score:2)
Meaning they are in a prime position to edit out all of the honeypot, Left-Wing instigators and other pot stirrers at their leisure.
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You know the voting records of the hackers? Why haven’t any conservatives hacked Twitter?
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> Why haven’t any conservatives hacked Twitter?
No funding, conservatives can't print money lol
Re:Silent solders of (Score:4, Interesting)
Is it possible that conservative tech workers are more ethical?
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You are fishing. Causation and correlation are not related.
Being conservative or liberal does not grant you the moral or ethical correctness.
Truman was conservative, by all accounts of his actions. Yet, dropped 'the bomb'
and got rid on 700K illegals ( they say more, yet I've never been able to pass the
800K number at all with reliable sources via deportation, 135k-ish is the best I can
document and cross reference)
as the great rules of acquisition say,
Rule 28 : Morality is always defined by those in power
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Yes, conservative tech workers are more ethical. Trump fan tech workers are completely different from conservatives though. Remember, these are the guys who tried to overturn democracy, ethical is not a part of their ideology.
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Twitter has been banning offensive users all the time lately. Is @realDonaldTrump working for anyone?
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Social media and politics is a deranged shitshow of misinformation on every side these days, what even is the point other than feeding your addiction to being angry?
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Joking aside, I agree RE: social media.
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Coming from the pre-PHPBB forum era of the Internet, I wondered if "newer" stuff like Twitter and Facebook could be places where free speech and healthy debate could occur.
Now it's 2021, and anything political on social media makes me turbo-cringe.
Poster felt the need to indicate that Gab is a Far-Right platform, maybe expecting everyone to cheer up because Orange Man bad and bla bla bla.
Meh.
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I agree. Slashdot is social media. I suggest that you get off Slashdot immediately.
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The problem is that there is no "common good," as you cannot get universal agreement and consent on what this actually is, if anything. It always ends up as an imposition of one party's morality upon another's, by force. And the means to achieve these unstable and divisive ends are also subject to extreme disagreement.
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Sorry, but Slashdot is a social media. So you're wrong. Perhaps you need a more limited descriptive phrase.
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> Sorry, but Slashdot is a social media
I'm not really posting anonymously- they turned that off, but my fake internet name is temporarily hidden from YOU. Additionally, by your absurd expansive definition, every comment section under an article is "social media". That's a USELESS definition. Now granted, most sites turned off comments- conservatives commented there sometimes, and it showed a lack of consensus, so many sites just got rid of their comment sections around 2013-2017, with a big push after
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Are the gabbers a powerful bunch of capitalists or humiliated rednecks?
Can't they be both -- even individually?
Gab was created by powerful capitalists (Score:5, Insightful)
The people on Gab are usually punching down when they're throw anything that'll land. They don't like the "deep state" but they don't understand who that is so when they go after the ruling class none of their punches hit. But when they go after fellow members of the working class sites like Gab make sure they know their targets there and the hits land hard.
Rsilvergun punches up (Score:2)
No, arguing with the assholes like yourself — though it does happen occasionally — is not sufficiently frequent to be considered usual practice.
Citation needed.
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Citation needed.
http://www.gab.com/ [gab.com]
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Re:Huh (Score:4, Insightful)
Yes. P*rler and G*b are basically 8ch*n in a business suit. You know what the common denominator is? Sites run by "Wile E Coyote: Genius" types. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PufFA8kDWFk , you know they keep buying all their off-the-shelf stuff ACME, and haven't put two and two together.
At least progressive types have the wherewithal to assume they are targets. Conservatives can't tell fiction from reality because their entire world view involves convincing each other big government is the problem and the sooner they make the world end, the sooner they will meet their creator.
Like it amazes me that anyone somehow believe that there is a benevolent god waiting for them with open arms if they destroy the earth the god created. So the alternative must be that they don't really believe their is a god, and thus there are no consequences for their actions, no matter how righteous or evil they are.
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It's all so bizarre to me because you go back 10 to 20 years and the Republican party was well know for being highly organized and effective and not like the bumbling clods over at the DNC (no offense to any actual bumbling clods here on Slashdot). Now days you watch the CPAC speeches and it's like watching the annual recitals from Clown Community College. Sometimes I take a double take and wonder if Republicans are the victims of an elaborate trolling campaign.
Re:Huh (Score:5, Interesting)
victims of an elaborate trolling campaign.
If you look at it in historical context that's probably a good analysis. The whole "Southern Strategy" was the New England Ivy League elites convincing Southern conservative racists that they were going to save them from the social changes being brought in by (largely) another group of New England Ivy League, elites.
Reagan was more of the same, and then in the Clinton years the movement went into overdrive. Corporate PR departments got into the act, building astroturf groups left and right, and Fox News became the mouthpiece of choice for billionaires, corporations, and various Cold Warrior retreads. Then it got weird.
The Internet initially allowed isolated people who believed odd things like flat earthers, alien abductees, and Sasquatch hunters to find each other, a tendency immediately noted by the intel agencies who began experimenting. I saw a write up over a decade ago of "bread crumbs" that (IIRC) the NSA had strewn throughout the online forums of the late '90s to see how information propagated through this new medium, they were surprised that some of the most absurd claims were promulgated most rapidly and widely. This study served them well in directing the online discussion surrounding the World Trade Center attack.
My own guess is that there are just too many players now. and in the chaos we ended up with the fans of a senile orangutan under the delusion that they could take control of the government by attacking the Capitol building.
there's better cult options out there dudes (Score:2)
The chose poorly.
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Of course Reagan wasn't Ivy League old money, but he wasn't really in charge anyway. Look at the people who funded him, who formulated the message he delivered, who directed his programs, both foreign and domestic. Reagan was the most blatant presidential figurehead in living memory, not even Hoover was as much an empty suit as he was. Conservative party politics was still very much an 'old boys game' in the 1970s, it didn't really get away from them until almost the turn of the century.
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Re:Huh (Score:5, Insightful)
Clearly it's not okay, but why is "SQL injection" still a thing in 2021. I have no idea what platform Gab runs on, but I've done my fair share of web coding, and parameterized queries have been a thing even in PHP for a long time now. You can't control language and library vulnerabilities (unfortunately), but you sure the hell can make sure your own code at least doesn't allow for what amount to a pretty trivial technique.
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Seems like Gab was self written... too easy a takeover, and too bad a uncontrolled site.
QAnon, you can't meet anywhere online or your site will be hacked, even if you take over an existing site.,
Re:Huh (Score:5, Informative)
Free speech? Ever try to post links to factual scientific data on one of those sites? Back when I used to play that game I would end up with all three of my throwaway email accounts banned in three posts just for posting data backed by NOAA or NASA or New England Journal of Medicine. That in addition to threats of death and dismemberment and threats to rape my family members, in addition to being put on spam email lists. Your friends are not nice people.
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You seem very angry. Are you scared something you said may become public?
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I've never used gab but I would still support them reporting this Emma Best to the police and/or FBI for breaches of the CFAA, and asking to press charges.
Get the criminal conviction first, follow up with the civil suit for damages.
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You think Soros and Pelosi are leftists? A currency speculator responsible for the misery of hundreds of millions of desperately poor people and the husband of a weapons merchant? Wow, I don't know how to reply to someone so delusional.
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Fascist, far left? Are you on crack, mate?
Oh no it's mi, so:
If such respect for freedom of expression makes someone "far Right", why aren't you far Right, dear reader?
You're just itching to defend the far right aren't you! This is not very surprising given your post history. I the real world, not what ever fun house mirror image that inhabits your head, fascism is far right, and you are desperate to defend them.
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I am not your "mate", Commie. Yes, of course, Fascists are Left — even if not as far Left as the Communists (hence the antagonism between them). Where Commies, like yourself, want government to outright own means of production, Fascist want government's full control of same — just short of outright ownership (which is what the US has right now [tulsaworld.com], since your much-venerated Roosevelt [rcreader.com]).
From the other, Libertarian, end of the spectrum, the two positions are in
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(and who think the election was stolen - from Sanders/Gabbard/Yang/whatever)
(and a different group who are very concerned about what you do in your bedroom for different reasons)
(etc)
There's a limited number of positions and methods, what makes someone left/right is more about how they get to them than where
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If you think the election was stolen, chances are you're far right
https://twitter.com/speakerpel... [twitter.com]
If you're overly concerned with what consenting adults do in their bedrooms you're probably far right.
All the people claiming that refusing to fuck a trans person is transphobic and that you shouldn't choose who you're attracted to are far right?
LGBTQIA cited here is such a Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei name:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blo... [bbc.co.uk]
Far right you say? Where to begin.
Well, I'd suggest you begin by educating yourself and skipping the whole pointless idiotic labelling of people to 'other' them.
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Do you mean the limited “government crowd” who wants the government to tell people what they can’t do behind closed doors? Modern day conservatives are religious nutjobs who make Reagan era republicans look like leftists in comparison. I was never a fan of the Democrats in the past but the republicans have shifted so far right it makes me vote democratic now.