Microsoft: No Driver Updates Allowed for Windows 7 and Windows 8 (osr.com) 91
An anonymous reader shares a report: Microsoft has announced that it is ending the ability to cross-sign drivers, effective 1 July 2021. This will effectively make it impossible to release new or updated drivers for Windows 7, Windows 8, and Windows 8.1 systems, including Server 2012 R2. This is not an exaggeration. The only option that will remain available to devs who want to release drivers for versions of Windows other than Windows 10 will be to have those drivers pass HLK/WHQL testing. Unfortunately, not all drivers are even eligible for HLK/WHQL testing, and even for those that are eligible, getting some drivers to pass the HLK/WHQL tests is effectively impossible. [...]
Isn't this an exaggeration? (Score:5, Interesting)
This will effectively make it impossible to release new or updated drivers for Windows 7
Why not unsigned drivers? It's not like Windows 7 isn't already just a big open security risk anyway at this point.
Re: Isn't this an exaggeration? (Score:5, Informative)
Yes, and it's not even hard.
"Follow these steps to disable driver signing using the Group Policy Editor.
Hit the Win+R keys together to open the run dialog. Type gpedit.msc to open the local groups policy editor.
Expand âUser Configurationâ(TM) -> âAdministrative Templatesâ(TM) -> âSystemâ(TM). Click âDriver Installationâ(TM).
In the right panel, double click on âCode Signing for Device Driversâ(TM).
Choose âEnabledâ(TM) in the window that appears. In the underlying options, choose âIgnoreâ(TM). This disables drivers signing in Windows 7, and now you can install unsigned drivers in Windows 7.
Click Apply. Restart your computer to install unsigned drivers."
https://superuser.com/question... [superuser.com]
Re: Isn't this an exaggeration? (Score:5, Funny)
Yeah it's not hard. All you have to do is: {Insert instruction that has confused the average person on step 1}
Re: (Score:1)
The "average person" wouldn't have a 2010 Win7 computer where they insist on updating some driver. It really takes some doing to keep it alive and anybody who does that could do the policy change too. Or in most cases they could do even the free upgrade (let's call it that) to W10 (yes, it's still possible, still free).
Re: (Score:2)
Then you need to contact the vendor of said system. Who, by the way, would be dicks for not giving you admin access on a PC you bought from them. (or if the equipment is leased, then they better be remoting in or whatever and maintaining it!)
Though in these circumstances you usually don't mess around the drivers without a good reason. If it works, don't try to fix it.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
nVidia is still spitting out Windows 7 compatible drivers, although they suck.
My next PC will have an AMD GPU along with the AMD CPU, and it will run Linux like my laptop does.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
nVidia is still spitting out Windows 7 compatible drivers, although they suck.
And people will specifically have no issue at all getting NVIDIA (what's with the strange capitalisation, they haven't been known as nVidia since the 90s) drivers as they are WHQL certified and thus don't rely on cross-signing. This is called out in the summary.
Re: (Score:2)
Uhhh you can do it with a .reg file
Really? That's your solution? Educate users to execute reg files? After a 25 year long campaign to stop users from executing software they don't understand with administrative privileges? *facepalm*
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
Yes, and it's not even hard.
Actually it is. Your instructions WILL NOT work for 64-bit Windows 7.
Re: Isn't this an exaggeration? (Score:5, Interesting)
OK, I checked and that's true. In which case
"These two commands alone worked great for me on Win7-64:
bcdedit -set loadoptions DISABLE_INTEGRITY_CHECKS
bcdedit -set TESTSIGNING ON"
or possibly
"Reboot using advanced start up options and there is an option to turn off signature enoforcement.
Reboot as normal and press F8. Then select " Disable Driver Signature Enforcement". Then install the unsigned driver. I had to do this for development using libusb. "
https://social.technet.microso... [microsoft.com]
I've already declared that Windows 7 is my last Windows. I've been using remove_crw.cmd to remove telemetry etc. I've had it way up past here with Microsoft.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Isn't this an exaggeration? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Will manufacturers put out unsigned drivers? (Score:2)
Re: (Score:1)
The summary itself says the WHQL option is still available and all of nVidia's drivers are WHQL certified, so it's a complete non-issue for devices like that.
The sorts of devices that are going to struggle are the dodgy Chinese knock off shit WiFi adapters and that sort of thing, and at that point who cares if you're installing unsigned drivers when the device itself is already a risk in itself?
As usual this is something being blown out of all proportions, just because the word Microsoft was in the subject.
I have one Windows 7 box left (Score:4, Interesting)
My living room game system is running on Windows 7, everything else I use is Linux based. My wife has had so many problems with Windows 10 that I don't think I'm willing to pay for the privilege of that kind of frustration.
I think more people are getting to the point where they're either going to stop gaming. Or only run games that work on non-Windows systems. I do have lots of 10 year old games that I haven't beat that seem to run on Linux natively or work reasonably well in Wine. Maybe I should stop buying new games and play what I already own.
Re:I have one Windows 7 box left (Score:4, Informative)
They are happy with it.
Add me to that list. (Score:5, Informative)
I had dabbled in Linux before, but it became the only OS on my PC after Windows 7 fell out of support.
Steam works great! There are quirks and some games won't work etc. I already have more games than I will ever have time to play and new games that are awesome and that run fine on Linux continue to be released with no end in sight. So, the occasional unsupported title is just not a problem.
There were...issues. But I resolved them. At first I considered this an "acceptable shortcoming," but now that Linux elitism is kicking in I am starting to think I prefer it this way. If Linux becomes mainstream on the desktop then the tech giants will sink their talons into it and ruin it. Microsoft is already working on that, as I understand.
Oh well, these things are beyond my control.
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
I doubt Microsoft can do more harm than Lennart Poettering.
Re: (Score:2)
There were...issues.
As someone hoping to make the same switch, can I ask you to elaborate on this?
Re: (Score:2)
Unless you have identical hardware, if you encounter issues, they will likely be different ones.
Except for very odd configurations, the system generally just works, except sometimes you will have to do some extra work to get some of your hardware supported. I had to hook up with a wire in order to get the driver for wifi on my laptop for example, because it's not mainlined yet.
Re: (Score:2)
That or just give up on PC Gaming altogether. If you aren't going to game on your PC, then most people could probably get by with a very basic computer. I'm currently running an AMD A8-7600 that I paid $500 for 5 years ago. It is completely fine for almost computing needs outside of gaming. And it will probably be fine for the next decade. Combine a basic PC with a Console like an XBox or a Playstation and you are set. The new consoles that are coming out are going to cost about as much as an RTX 3070 grap
Re: (Score:2)
My problem with modern consoles is it seems difficult to actually own a game for it. You can buy games on an app store, and lose access to them when they discontinue the service or have trouble with your account. I'll admit that's not really any different than Steam, but it isn't a model that I want to invest too much more into.
Re: (Score:3)
???
Last I checked, Best Buy, Amazon, Target, even GameStop still have massive racks of games on things called "discs". Racks of blue and green boxes of discs you can buy for your con
Re: (Score:2)
GOG has DRM free games. Make a backup on a usb drive.
Re: (Score:2)
Some of those games you buy on disc don't actually work until they have been patched. Or they mostly work, but you can't actually complete them.
Sometimes the patches are on the order of being the same size of the game. Regardless of the size, though, you still need to use the online service to get them. Back in the Xbox (original) days you could sometimes get patches or even DLC from third parties who helpfully provided them, but I don't think that works any more.
Re: (Score:2)
> That or just give up on PC Gaming altogether
Why?
There are TONS of Windows 7 compatible games on Steam.
Filtering the Steam store by games for SteamOS + Linux shows 7,491 results match your search [steampowered.com] for Linux.
Good Old Games [gog.com] is another option.
> At this point, it make no sense for me to upgrade my computer, simply to play games, when I can get a complete console
Consoles aren't a universal solution. How do you play:
* Minecraft with mods such as shaders, Ray-tracing, and UI mods?
* World of Warcraft?
* RTSs s
Re: (Score:2)
Too bad so many games won't run on consoles. I've got a box full of games I might want to put on a console if I had one. Shame there aren't any good new games on consoles. Then you need desk space for it. Oh wait, play on the couch? That seems a bit silly, where do you put the keyboard and mouse? You honestly think I'm going to use that stupid joystick thingy to move around? Can I alt-tab out to a web page?
By the time you add what you need, the console is essentially a PC any, in cost but not in capab
Re: (Score:2)
Combine a basic PC with a Console like an XBox or a Playstation and you are set.
Until you go to buy a particular indie game and see this:
Windows and Linux: Buy Now
Mac and iOS: Join our mailing list to be the first to know when the crowdfunding campaign starts.
Consoles: We are seeking a publisher. If you're interested in bringing this game to consoles, email our business inquiry department.
Re: (Score:2)
My wife has had so many problems with Windows 10 that I don't think I'm willing to pay for the privilege of that kind of frustration.
I think more people are getting to the point where they're either going to stop gaming. Or only run games that work on non-Windows systems. I do have lots of 10 year old games that I haven't beat that seem to run on Linux natively or work reasonably well in Wine. Maybe I should stop buying new games and play what I already own.
My girlfriend bought a new laptop a couple of weeks ago, and she immediately wanted me to replace the Win10 Pro it came with and install Linux Mint. It turned out that version 20 had an issue with on piece of software she needed. So she downloaded 19.3 wrote a USB stick and reinstalled. I think I had to answer 3 questions for the whole process.
Obviously she is a keeper.
I am in the same boat but I already moved my gaming to Linux, I guess I am lucky everything I want to play is either available for Linux
girlfriend (Score:2)
My girlfriend bought a new laptop a couple of weeks ago, and she immediately wanted me to replace the Win10 Pro it came with and install Linux Mint. It turned out that version 20 had an issue with on piece of software she needed. So she downloaded 19.3 wrote a USB stick and reinstalled. I think I had to answer 3 questions for the whole process. Obviously she is a keeper.
She is so obviously a keeper that I recommend that you not post her name or location on Slashdot, because if you do she will receive an unwelcome amount of attention from the typical Shashdotters. :)
Re: (Score:2)
She is so obviously a keeper that I recommend that you not post her name or location on Slashdot, because if you do she will receive an unwelcome amount of attention from the typical Shashdotters. :)
Way ahead of you on that one. :)
Re: (Score:2)
I already have two Windows XP machines with really old CD-based stuff on, like Interstate '76. (The Gog version still doesn't work properly.) This new machine is just for games which fall into the gap between CD-based XP gaming an
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Yep, that's me as an old fart. I just don't have time, energy, money, etc. to keep up. I just wait for the free softwares even if they are old and unsupported. ;)
Stop being surprised.. (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Stop being surprised. (Score:3, Informative)
Re: (Score:3)
No, they didn't. W10 is not a viable upgrade. It is several steps backwards in usability and performance compared to W7.
or somehow the world has passed you by.
Look, Barney Stinson, not everything which is new is better. I don't think this comment box is large enough to list all the new crap which is wholly inferior to what came before it. If the world running headlong into a realm where you're dependent on a company to allow you to use something you've purchased is considered being passed by, so be it.
Re: (Score:1)
No, they didn't. W10 is not a viable upgrade. It is several steps backwards in usability and performance compared to W7.
Nope it really isn't. The core OS performs faster than Windows 7 on every benchmark. The usability is just a poweruser who doesn't want to RTFM, kind of like all the people who say you can't do X with systemd only to find out yes you can and you can do it much more easily.
Look, Barney Stinson, not everything which is new is better.
Indeed it isn't. But there are plenty of people who actually learn their systems rather than just waste energy bitching online about the colour scheme. There are many usability improvments in Windows 10 that I'm sure you'll happily ignore
Re: (Score:2)
At this point if you're a Windows 7 user you're either stubborn to the point of your own determent, running some very specific hardware which even the hardware vendor will have abandoned making future driver updates moot, or somehow the world has passed you by.
There are a fair number of those old computers at my University running things like NMRs, mass spec GCs, PCRs, electron microscopes, laser cutters, X-Ray diffractors, tensile testers and more. Just because a printer or video card dies, should we spend tens of thousands of dollars to buy new Windows 10 compatible software, assuming it even exists? Or hundreds of thousands of dollars replacing the entire rig? The NMR alone is over half a million to replace.
Re: (Score:2)
So running some very specific hardware exactly as I said.
And no, please use your head. All video cards are WHQL certified and not impacted by this in the slightest, as are drivers from printers that a vendor will provide you for Windows 7.
Your fancy gear will be just fine.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
We need to stop bitching at Microsoft for doing things that we 100% know they will do.
Fuck 'em with a stick, sideways. I refuse to put Win 10 on my hardware due to the telemetry issues, the fact that they continue to push broken updates that were neither asked for nor wanted, and other "features" that display a blatant disregard for their customers' needs and what they've actually asked for. They can "make money for shareholders", but none of it will be mine. This driver thing is just the icing on the c
Re:Stop being surprised.. (Score:4, Insightful)
"And fuck you for standing up for them. It's not your place to tell us whether we should be bitching at them or not."
and here you go with telling him and MS what they should be doing... good lord
his statement of facts are not an advocation one way or the other, eg, saying the sky is blue doesn't mean my favorite color is blue
this is a forum for discussion, listening to everyone's stupid shit is part of it
Re: (Score:1)
It's a glorified debate club with swearing encouraged.
Re: (Score:2)
his statement of facts are not an advocation one way or the other, eg, saying the sky is blue doesn't mean my favorite color is blue
Saying Microsoft is a publically traded corporation is just about as useful as saying the sky is blue.
The only reason sqorbit did it was to attempt to justify Microsoft's behavior by invoking default bias e.g. "It is what it is".
Re: (Score:2)
exactly.... sure it sucks for some, but it's a boon to msmash who can promote some strife and get a raise
but seriously, they are a for-profit company that made a choice to further that priority; if it were profitable to continue supporting Win7,8 they would
if someone thinks MS made a mistake, maybe that's an opportunity to jump in and supply a solution to all the disaffected Win7,8 users; if not, then I'd say MS got it right
I've been on the shitty end of plenty of biz decisions, not just from MS.... layoff
Re: (Score:1)
We need to stop bitching at Microsoft for doing things that we 100% know they will do. It's not like they secretly take products off support.
Just like we need to stop bitching about pedophiles molesting children and corrupt politicians because we know what they are going to do. LIKE HELL WE DO! When a company isn't a good corporate citizen they need to be whipped back into line or destroyed.
Re: (Score:2)
Child molestation and corruption are criminal activities and should be deplored (bitched about) by every decent person. Bitching about a company's legal and profitable business model is just preaching to the choir in your echo chamber, or pissing into the wind if you don't have a choir to preach to. Good luck with your plan to whip or destroy Microsoft.
Re: (Score:2)
Windows 8 came out between Squeeze (6.0) and Wheezy (7.0) both are EOL too, even their Extended EOL.
I can't think of any OS that has had as long a support as Windows, especially 7. Yet for some, it's never long enough (though any other OS gets a pass because reasons???)
Re: (Score:2)
AIX 5,3 was very very long, longer than anything from Microsoft if I recall correctly.
RHEL from version five onward gets a bit over 10 years, which puts them on par with Windows 7.
Re: (Score:2)
So unless everyone in here is running that, then stop complaining when some software dares to not be supported after a decade.
Re: (Score:3)
AIX 5,3 was very very long, longer than anything from Microsoft if I recall correctly.
RHEL from version five onward gets a bit over 10 years, which puts them on par with Windows 7.
Do you get free updates for either of those? Or are you paying quite a bit for those updates? And not just at the ten year mark, but the one year mark?
Contrast with Windows 7 which you could have bought on a PC in 2009, got free updates for a decade, at end of life got a free upgrade to windows 10, which will be getting free updates for god knows how long because there is no windows 11 on the horizon...
I'm really struggling to determine why people are so upset.
Re: (Score:2)
Windows 10 is not an upgrade. It's got little that anyone cares about that can't be done on 7. But it does come with odious spyware, and a license to match. The forced malware is why people are upset.
Re: (Score:2)
RHEL has a free version in the form of CentOS, for which free updates are available.
RHEL itself is GPL, hence how CentOS can even exist.
The free upgrade to windows 10 might necessitate buying new hardware, which won't be free.
AIX is a different case, >5.3 dropped support for a lot of old hardware so you may need to buy replacement hardware to update to 6 or 7... AIX also only really runs on fairly niche hardware which is not only very expensive, but is also usually supplied with AIX if that's what you wa
Re: (Score:2)
I'm quite familiar with both RHEL and AIX, though I haven't actually used AIX since the 1990s (on IBM RT minis, if you care).
With regard to CentOS, we've had issues in the past where RHEL performed correctly and CentOS did not (which was extremely irritating, as we never managed to determine root cause, and they're obviously built from the same source), causing a ban on the use of CentOS internally. If we need a Linux VM, we buy an RHEL sub unless the application requires something else.
My anecdote aside,
Re: (Score:2)
All true. What upsets me is that they've munged up the interface until that alone drove me to linux (I can still get KDE to not make my eyes bleed). The final straw was when Win10 decided it should nuke the filesystem on an external hard drive, at a guess because it had been in service long enough to be using an old version of NTFS.
Can't really fault MSFT for support, tho. At least until they started removing support files for older Windows (like the one that lets 'em use NVMe drives, all the way back to XP
Re: (Score:2)
There was Windows XP. Supported from 2001 to 2014. And some of the embedded versions only went out of support as of last year.
Re: (Score:2)
Sorry, but if I don't like it, I'm going to bitch about it, whether or not we 100% know they are going to do it, and even though I know they're not going to listen to me.
If you don't like that, feel free to bitch about me while I'm not listening.
Re: (Score:2)
Microsoft is a for profit company that's end goal is to make money for shareholders. The need to move forward with products and stop supporting old products to keep their business moving and viable. I'm not saying you have to like it, but it's reality.
Anyone can justify literally anything by invoking this crap. Let me give it a try.
IBM is a for profit company that's end goal is to make money for shareholders. The need to move forward with selling products to keep their business moving and viable. I'm not saying you have to like Watson selling tabulators to Hitler, but it's a reality.
We need to stop bitching at Microsoft for doing things that we 100% know they will do. It's not like they secretly take products off support.
LOL.. and who are you? "We" don't need to do a damn thing.
I doubt a single person here ever even so much as contemplated Microsoft pulling a stunt like this actively pre
Re: (Score:2)
what about windows embedded? (Score:4, Interesting)
what about windows embedded?
That is still not EOL for the non windows 10 based ones?
2012r2 ends 10/10/2023
Will MS backtrack to that date?
Re: (Score:2)
I highly doubt that a Windows embedded platform ever received a driver update. Most likely it was shipped once 15 years ago and never touched again. I don't anticipate this will affect anyone other than those people who stubbornly hang onto Windows 7 on their actual day to day machines because they don't like Windows 10 and don't want to switch to Linux.
Legit use cases for Windows 7 will have been abandoned by hardware manufacturers not releasing drivers for a long out of date OS, not because they were bloc
I don't have strong feelings about this either way (Score:3)
I'm not even sure this is an unreasonable decision. I rather question the constant nagging people who still run Windows 7 get for updating to Windows 10; but Windows 7 came out a long time ago. And this isn't the first time we've seen major hiccups between major version and direction changes from the company.
Like, moving from 95 to 98 was pretty smooth.
ME was a weird beast, but literally between 98 and ME there were significant compatibly problems trying to run some things that worked in 98 on ME.
And I think a lot of people probably saw an upgrade path of 95 -> 98 -> ME -> XP (Or they were smart enough to avoid ME and jump straight from 98 to XP).
Anyways, isn't the amount of time between when Windows 98 was released compared to Windows XP; is similar to when Windows 7 was released and now right?
Personally, I think if they don't want to maintain it, perhaps they should open source it, or at least provide some sort of a program where enthusiasts could keep it running. I'm sure I heard something about this with the OS/2 community.
Honestly, we're talking about an OS that was released back in 2009, during a time where clicking on a link in an email from somebody you don't know has a 50/50 chance of resulting in a ransomware infection, people probably should update to something a little more modern anyway. =)
Re: (Score:3)
The only issue here is that Windows 8.1 is still in extended support until 2023. Pulling the plug on something that's very much a security-related thing is a bad idea. I mean, not as bad as staying on Windows 8.1 when you could be on Windows 10 - but that's a choice Microsoft gave people.
Re: (Score:2)
Moving might have been smooth, but neither 95 nor 98 ran smooth.
Re: (Score:2)
With regular planned reboots, Windows 98 ran very smooth if you had quality hardware with good drivers, and didn't try to run a bunch of background tasks. It was a fine operating system for PC gaming, if not excellent. It was a bit crap as a multitasking business environment, however.
Re: (Score:2)
Well, I do think this is unreasonable. "No driver updates allowed" means Microsoft wants to stop 3rd-parties from supporting the OS. If MS doesn't want to support Win7, that's perfectly understandable, but who the hell do they think they are trying to keep the rest of the industry from supporting it?
I have similar feelings regarding Flash and Java Applets. Okay, the rest of the world has moved on, but... why the massive push to eliminate existing installations? If they're truly obsolete, it shouldn't be
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Yeah I intentionally left that out. Reason is because at one point Microsoft OS's depending on the need or use, were on completely different paths. You had DOS grow up into what we now call windows. I mean at one point Windows ran more as an application on DOS, and as far as I understood it to keep out competition such as DR DOS, MS DOS 7 got baked into windows 95. Actually there is whole interesting story on that.
So anyways, I saw the upgrade path for most consumers being DOS->3.X->95->98.>
Re: (Score:2)
Funny that the reason you left it out 'for pros but not for consumers' is the reason I wanted to mention it.
Microsoft to certify devices for Windows? (Score:1)
I think what that means, is that Microsoft will hack Windows to actually run the device drivers. Do you remember when device drivers were certified to run on the hardware?
Finally! (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
It only affects the ability for third parties to sign new drivers. So unless Microsoft invalidates the certificates existing drivers have already used, it should be fine.
why people still use windows?! (Score:2)
why people still use windows?! i don't really get it! they really like to suffer! :D
Re: Isn't this an exaggeration? (Score:1)