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China Security Operating Systems Software

Huawei Ready To Reveal Inner Workings To Show No Security Threat (reuters.com) 76

Posted by BeauHD from the open-sesame dept.
Huawei's Italian President says the company is ready to show that its technology does not pose any security risk to the countries that will include its equipment in the creation of 5G networks. Reuters reports: "We will open our insides, we are available to be vivisected to respond to all of this political pressure...," President Luigi De Vecchis said at the opening ceremony of the group's cyber-security centre in Rome. The United States has lobbied Italy and other European allies to avoid using Huawei equipment in their next generation networks, saying the company could pose a security risk. Huawei rejects those charges. "I am speechless that a country the size of the United States attacks another country through the demolition, via groundless accusations, of a company of that country," he said.

De Vecchis said that, despite all the pressure, Huawei had no intention of leaving the Italian market and was considering adding further products in fields such as energy. "It's extremely unlikely Huawei will leave the market because of the current situation," he said.
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Huawei Ready To Reveal Inner Workings To Show No Security Threat More

Huawei Ready To Reveal Inner Workings To Show No Security Threat

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  • What is the point in the EU Common Market if people are willing to sabotage their own protectionism? Countries should favour their like-minded neighbours, it is only common sense.

    • What is the point in the EU Common Market if people are willing to sabotage their own protectionism? Countries should favour their like-minded neighbours, it is only common sense.

      The Trump/Putin regimes, for example, and the EU are many things but they are not 'like-minded' in any accepted sense of that term but in the best spirit of free market capitalism the EU still trades with them. There is no reason to treat China any differently despite a distinct lack of 'like-mindedness' in that relationship as well.

      • Re: (Score:1, Flamebait)

        by sabbede ( 2678435 )
        How are you still falling for that collusion hoax? Even now as evidence has come out showing that it was invented entirely by Hillary's campaign, which actually did collude with Russia. They hired Russian spies and bought&used Russian disinformation. The entire ordeal was perpetrated by Hillary to distract from her email scandal. The whole thing was a hoax built upon lies and extraordinary misconduct at the highest levels of the previous administration.
        • Comment removed based on user account deletion
          • How many people in the Trump campaign went to prison for colluding with Russia? The answer is exactly zero. Several were flat-out framed, and an FBI lawyer has gone to prison for basically crossing out "works for CIA" on Page's paperwork so they could use his legitimate work to get a warrant (https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/19/politics/clinesmith-carter-page-fisa-warrant/index.html) . They tried to convict Flynn of doing his job. Many of the Americans on that link you sent have since been vindicated, but th

      • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

        by account_deleted ( 4530225 )
        Comment removed based on user account deletion
    • It's the US's protectionism. Not the EU's tho it would do the EU good to adopt it in this case for our own companies. I don't think any notable governments buy into the security claims but buying Ericsson and Nokia for intra EU solidarity sounds good.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by gtall ( 79522 )

        Correction, it is the alleged administration's protectionism, but "paranoia" is a better term.

      • When it comes to the US and 5G/Huawei, it's not about protecting domestic industry. The US has no domestic 5G solution providers. We rely on Europe.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Pimpy ( 143938 )

        I'm not sure it's that straightforward to make a solidarity claim where multinational organizations are concerned. Most of Huawei's 5G and antenna work is done in Europe by its European research centres and later transferred to China, not the other way around. This is also reflected in the patents and standards contributions. The ownership structure then goes through holding entities in the Netherlands and Singapore before presumably terminating in China. There's a case to be made for the 'ultimate' ownersh

  • Huawei was also willing to license their 5g tech. (Score:5, Informative)

    by Hmmmmmm ( 6216892 ) on Thursday October 01, 2020 @05:10AM (#60559978)

    They have already stated that they would be willing to license all technology to a US company to manufacture 5g equipment, but the US never bother to follow up on the offer.

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Joce640k ( 829181 )

      You don't get it: It's election season and Trump has to show his fans how tough he is on the slant-eyed yellow enemy. They sent Huawei, they sent COVID, etc., etc.

      As Orwell would say: The US has always been at war with Southasia.

      • Exactly, in my opinion. I live in the EU and have no way to vote, must live with the concequenses (China trade war).

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

        Assuming Trump loses and this madness ends we might actually want to thank him on this one. Despite all the bad it's done if it means companies are more willing to open up their gear to audits it might have some positive effect.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by gtall ( 79522 )

          All of which could have been accomplished with out a deranged monkey stomping on international and national norms.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by gtall ( 79522 )

        No, a distinct minority in the U.S. has been at war with S. Asia. It isn't that they are nationalistic, it is that they are unAmerican.

        • And which minority would that be?

          By the way, South Asia is mostly India. China/Japan are considered "East Asia".

          From where I am sitting, the anger with China in the US does not lay with a minority: - Some working class might be brainwashed into thinking China took their jobs - Some are brainwashed into blaming China for Trump's incompetence in handling COVID - Some rightfully criticize both Trump's handling and China's poor handling of the initial outbreak (even the countries with stellar response ar
      • Except Huawei is an arm of the CCP, heavily subsidized in order to eliminate the capacity of any other nation to produce it's own goods - a tool of economic warfare. According to credible Chinese scientists fleeing their government, the Wuhan coronavirus was engineered in a Chinese lab. China made sure it spread across the globe while preventing its spread domestically. So yes, "they sent Huawei, they sent COVID", they illegally claimed the South China Sea up to the very beaches of their neighbors, are o

    • They have already stated that they would be willing to license all technology to a US company to manufacture 5g equipment, but the US never bother to follow up on the offer.

      Politics aside for a moment, I don't think you can sit here and simply bang on the racist/nationalist drum as the only excuse to simply not consider developing THE next-generation wireless technology, in your own country, using your own people.

      To say it's a trillion-dollar industry, is putting it lightly like IPv6 slightly expanded the address space.

      Toss the most obvious (indisputable) Politics back in play for just a moment...Place all of the suspicion grounded in considerable evidence that the CCP has a

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      Licencing Huawei products isn't going to help them much. Companies like Cisco are all about vendor lock-in. Get you trapped in their ecosystem and then gouge the hell out of you for decades. The last thing they want is for people to be buying Huawei products, even re-badged.

      Actually there is another issue. Huawei has a lot of the key 5G patents. They will happily licence them but that means the US company either has to pay them cash or licence some patents in return. Since they missed the boat on 5G they ar

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by jonwil ( 467024 )

      Even if you ignore the spying and such, Huawei is heavily subsidized by the Chinese government and if allowed into western markets unrestricted would be selling products at prices that western manufacturers can't hope to match.

      And regardless of your views on China, it doesn't make economic sense for western countries to allow someone to sell goods into their market at prices that are below what local suppliers can' ever hope to match.

      Bombardier Aviation got hit by the US because it was going to sell its new

  • If recent Chinese financed Hollywood movies are any indication, Chinese fairy tales suck. I have no hope for this one to be better.

    • Re:And they lived happily ever after (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Freischutz ( 4776131 ) on Thursday October 01, 2020 @06:04AM (#60560054)

      If recent Chinese financed Hollywood movies are any indication, Chinese fairy tales suck. I have no hope for this one to be better.

      The Patriot, Gods and Generals, White House Down they all made me cringe, if anything Mulan was better because the patriotism factor was far less 'in your face' than it is in the formerly referenced movies. Patriotic American schmalz is no better or worse than patriotc Chinese schmalz.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Junta ( 36770 )

        I think the main difference is that for the American nationalistic stuff tends to be 'Exactly what it says on the tin'. You go in knowing that it's an 'GO MURICA' sort of affair.

        The worrying thing is to reach the Chinese people, you have to appease the CCP to get to the populace. Which means all media must be consistent with the CCP political and social agendas. You do a documentary delving into some American misbehavior past or present? That can be available on the American market. Want to do a documentary

      • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

        by sabbede ( 2678435 )
        Since when is Patriotism bad?

        American Patriotism aligns one with Liberty, Equality and Democracy. It is a belief in freedom and justice enshrined in a system that protects the rights and liberties of all. Chinese Patriotism means support for an oppressive totalitarian, authoritarian, police state that is currently committing acts of outright genocide and cultural eradication. American Patriots recognize that for what it is - pure evil - and reject it.

        American Patriots twice saved the world from tho

        • American Patriots twice saved the world from those evils.

          wat

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by SirSlud ( 67381 )

          that's adorable

        • Re:And they lived happily ever after (Score:5, Insightful)

          by jbengt ( 874751 ) on Thursday October 01, 2020 @08:08AM (#60560344)

          Since when is Patriotism bad?

          Since when it is used to promote fights against others and see them as lesser than us patriots (i.e., almost since the beginning of time)

          American Patriotism aligns one with Liberty, Equality and Democracy.

          I fully agree with you here.
          Unfortunately, a lot of Americans who call themselves patriots align themselves with Liberty for themselves even at the expense of others, Equality as long as it doesn't diminish their believed privileged position, and Democracy as long as their side wins the election, while using patriotism as an excuse to look down on foreigners.

        • Re:And they lived happily ever after (Score:4, Interesting)

          by Freischutz ( 4776131 ) on Thursday October 01, 2020 @09:37AM (#60560684)

          Since when is Patriotism bad?

          American Patriotism aligns one with Liberty, Equality and Democracy. It is a belief in freedom and justice enshrined in a system that protects the rights and liberties of all. Chinese Patriotism means support for an oppressive totalitarian, authoritarian, police state that is currently committing acts of outright genocide and cultural eradication. American Patriots recognize that for what it is - pure evil - and reject it.

          American Patriots twice saved the world from those evils. Some respect is due.

          I didn't say patriotism is bad, that's you putting words in my mouth. I just said that Americans have a tendency to be quite a lot more patriotic than is absolutely necessary. At some point during the first ten minutes of flag waiving in any patriotic movie everybody gets it, you are patriotic about America, after that it just get increasingly ... well ... awkward.

      • I found Mulan terribly cringeworthy, the subtone of having to sacrifice for family, village and country, and align with what they see as good. Indoctrination at it's finest in your face...

  • Open source all the designs and software, they will still make money on the manufacturing since that's usually done in china anyway.
    Third parties can improve upon the designs, and huawei still get a cut from manufacturing them.

  • Their code is the threat. (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Gravis Zero ( 934156 ) on Thursday October 01, 2020 @06:00AM (#60560046)

    From what I've read, in addition to trust, the problem is that their code is shoddy. Back in 2012, a security researcher described the issue as being "1990s-style code" [cnet.com] which means they would need to have made significant internal changes in a handful of year to ensure the code they wrote for their 5G equipment isn't prone to vulnerabilities. It's possible they did so but it seems unlikely.

    However, with a 51% stake of every company, you cannot trust any Chinese company to not betray you at a moments notice. The CCP is in control and has said and demonstrated repeatedly that they will do what is in their own interest and damn the consequences that befall onto others.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by brunes69 ( 86786 )

      2012 - 2020 is not a "handful of years" - is a virtual eternity when it comes to software development and also the entire wireless industry.

      4G LTE was *JUST LAUNCHING* in 2012. 5G was not even a discussion point.

      It is completely possible that there isn't even a single line of code shared with current 5G systems and those from 2012. Maybe there is a lot of code shared as well, I have no clue, but it is foolish to make that assumption.

      The point is that they are willing to open all the code, all the hardware.

      • Did you think those two things were in some way mutually exclusive? I have to disagree. Like the CCP and every major Chinese corporation, they are one and the same.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by brunes69 ( 86786 )

          If the motivation is to hurt the Chinese economy, then fine, be upfront about it. No one is willing to do this though because that immediately gets you in a lot of trouble WRT international trade.

          All of this "National Security" and spying BS is political theatre.

      • 4G LTE was *JUST LAUNCHING* in 2012.

        4G was 2 3GPP releases in at that point. What became 4G was ratified in 2008.

        It is completely possible that there isn't even a single line of code shared with current 5G systems and those from 2012.

        Sorry but that is not possible at all. The digital radio ecosystem is so hyper complex and has both concepts and code that spans many generations of technology. The direct code for the air-interface is likely all new and unique, but the underlying network components will mostly be reused with only the required additional functionality tacked on.

        Now as to I think any other vendor's code is likely any better, we can happily debate th

        • The digital radio ecosystem is so hyper complex and has both concepts and code that spans many generations of technology.

          I've never heard Howard Stern and Rush Limbaugh so described, but I think you're onto something.

      • Maybe there is a lot of code shared as well, I have no clue, but it is foolish to make that assumption.

        I've made no such assumption. What I've assumed is that changing how they write code is a large undertaking and that it's unlikely that they managed to do so before the development of 5G.

        2012 - 2020 is not a "handful of years"

        When do you think 5G started to be developed? Do you really think they only started working on it after 2017?

        The point is that they are willing to open all the code, all the hardware.

        They never said that, you inferred that.

        What's more, the US federal government I guarantee *ALREADY HAS* reverse engineered all the code and hardware, a long time ago.

        Umm... they are good but they aren't gods. I'm sure they have exploits for the system but that doesn't mean they have completely reverse engineered all the gear.

        So if Huawei is saying anyone can see it, that means that the feds have known for a long time as well that there is actually nothing to be concerned with.

        They didn't

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by nickovs ( 115935 )
      Sadly it's clear that even though they have several years to work on it there code is still dreadful [theregister.com].
    • In Australia, Huawei hired totally respectable ex Australian military and Australian diplomatic persons one who expect to be hands on heart, sound people. But Australia decided to ban their products anyway, on hearsay, even while the UK and Germany were trying to find things. So far no adverse findings above and beyond their competitors, where Cisco with former EAL ratings made a mockery of so called expert certification. Huawei should open source their products and build in Israel, who bake in the final co

      • The key to indisputable security...The software on the Apollo mission in 1969 - that software WAS written to be bulletproof, with otherwise conditional checks.

        So, it ain't rocket science...it's kevlar analogies and razor-wire barriers in Israel?

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by jabuzz ( 182671 )

        Try refreshing your web browser to read the story about Huawei and their shoddy code from GCHQ.

    • From what I've read, in addition to trust, the problem is that their code is shoddy.

      I think you'll find a security researcher to make the same claim about every network device manufacturer in existence. Honestly they are all shoddy.

      However, with a 51% stake of every company, you cannot trust any Chinese company to not betray you at a moments notice.

      Whereas with actual proof of what the US has done to date you cannot trust them at all. This speaking from 3rd party here, specifically focusing on the USA telling other countries they can't trust China.

      Who do you trust to not stab you in the back? The stranger you know nothing about, or the person holding a knife standing over the corpse of an ally they just st

  • Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • Unless they open up their source code and introduce a strong checksum verification mechanism to prove that what's running on their gear is what was inspected/tested, there will never be any certainty as to their involvement with the Chinese govt or not.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by brunes69 ( 86786 )

      Both of above have already been allowed a long time ago.

      In fact not only did they volunteer to open up their code, they volunteered to license all the code and manufacturing to a US company.

      The fact of the matter is all of this national security theatre is just a smokescreen, the real motivation is to hurt the Chinese economy. I don't know why they aren't just honest about it.

      • The fact of the matter is all of this national security theatre is just a smokescreen, the real motivation is to hurt the Chinese economy. I don't know why they aren't just honest about it.

        Criminals are rarely honest about their motivations during the social engineering phase. It's illegal to restrict trade like this without a national security excuse.

        • It's illegal to restrict trade like this without a national security excuse.

          National security is often conflated with national supremacy. "Interests", the big wigs call it. The merging of market place price points and value-added taxes is a wall of calculus between a happy holiday and anarchy. The former is referred to as the "free world" and the latter is...most everyone else.

  • Oh, are they not controlled by the CCP anymore? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by sabbede ( 2678435 ) on Thursday October 01, 2020 @07:22AM (#60560194)
    Because complete and total separation from the Chinese government and Communist Party is the ONLY way they could cease to be a threat to national or individual security..

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by brunes69 ( 86786 )

      Please explain why?

      Do you think the CCP has some kind of magical pixie dust that allows them to violate the laws of physics?

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Junta ( 36770 )

        I suppose I don't see how they would need to violate the laws of physics to be a threat to security.

        For one, eavesdropping is but a small facet of what constitutes 'national security'. Supply chain disruption, unreliable design, and so on can also be considered a security threat.

        For another, eavesdropping may be viable through either accidentally shoddy implementation with holes, well obscured deliberate backdoor that evade scrutiny during audits, or getting the foot in the door without security risks layin

  • What, exactly (Score:3)

    by UnixUnix ( 1149659 ) on Thursday October 01, 2020 @08:12AM (#60560352) Homepage
    So we are going to see...what? (Unobfuscated) software? Firmware? ROM binaries? With the assertion that those are indeed what is to be found in the actual device? Let me say that until all this happens I do cling to a smidgen of doubt.

  • "We will open our insides, we are available to be vivisected to respond to all of this political pressure...," President Luigi De Vecchis said...

    Well, take the man up on his offer. One less upper management person in the world is a good thing.

  • ...And nothing more. This conflict has been going on for, what, over a year now? That's plenty of time to remove any malicious code, tuck away any communications or directives that could be seen as dangerous/offensive and reposition their products as safe for use. It is in their best interests as a business to present their product offering as attractively as possible, especially when the President of Huawei's Biggest Potential Customer (the US) jeopardizes their profits. They've had a long time to wash the

  • I'm reminded of this:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]

    If the NSA can put a backdoor in encryption that isn't found for some time, why not China too?

    I don't trust any government. Even if you see the source and build the binaries yourself you can still miss important aspect of security.

  • Must likely what happened was that all the 3 letter agencies wanted a backdoor and Huawei said no.

    So they released their propaganda lying machine on them.

  • After so so so so long being accused of potential espionage and sabotage, now Huawei is opening up its engineering to the World to prove its innocence. You may ask why? I my opinion, they took this time to fix a limited number of equipments to make them look innocent so that they can be inspected. But as soon as EU/US/UK begin buying their stuffs, they'll sell the same things they've always been selling.

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