Microsoft is Force-Feeding Edge To Windows Users With a Spyware-like Install (theverge.com) 155
Sean Hollister, writing for The Verge: If I told you that my entire computer screen just got taken over by a new app that I'd never installed or asked for -- it just magically appeared on my desktop, my taskbar, and preempted my next website launch -- you'd probably tell me to run a virus scanner and stay away from shady websites, no? But the insanely intrusive app I'm talking about isn't a piece of ransomware. It's Microsoft's new Chromium Edge browser, which the company is now force-feeding users via an automatic update to Windows. Seriously, when I restarted my Windows 10 desktop this week, an app I'd never asked for:
1. Immediately launched itself
2. Tried to convince me to migrate away from Chrome, giving me no discernible way to click away or say no
3. Pinned itself to my desktop and taskbar
4. Ignored my previous browser preference by asking me -- the next time I launched a website -- whether I was sure I wanted to use Chrome instead of Microsoft's oh-so-humble recommendation.
5. Did I mention that, as of this update, you can't uninstall Edge anymore?
1. Immediately launched itself
2. Tried to convince me to migrate away from Chrome, giving me no discernible way to click away or say no
3. Pinned itself to my desktop and taskbar
4. Ignored my previous browser preference by asking me -- the next time I launched a website -- whether I was sure I wanted to use Chrome instead of Microsoft's oh-so-humble recommendation.
5. Did I mention that, as of this update, you can't uninstall Edge anymore?
Deja Vu (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm pretty sure we've been around this sequence of events once already, the name Netscape springs to mind... how can M$ possibly think they will get away with it?
Re:Deja Vu (Score:5, Interesting)
" how can M$ possibly think they will get away with it?"
Been keeping track of their history? They don't care if they get away with it or not... they ARE going to get away with it because they can and no one is going to stop them.
At worst, the government might fine them, but they are going to get their way either way and it is just good business to break the law when you can make more money by breaking the law and never get into any actual legal trouble other than paying a little cash into the gubermint coffers.
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Nothing we can do about except what I have done, use Lunix (sic) for serious work and personal affairs, and Windows 7 Pirate Edition for games!
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W10E LTSC does not have this Edge problem.
Re:Deja Vu (Score:4, Insightful)
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Windows 7 Pirate Edition for games!
Windows 10 is free.
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Windows was never free. Assuming you didn't steal a copy.
Most people get Windows as part of purchasing a computer. See *purchasing* - the computer OEM had to pay MS for a copy of Windows to install, and you paid for that (plus some margin, usually) as part of paying for the computer.
If you built your own computer, you had to buy a retail or OEM copy of Windows if you wanted to run Windows-based software. Unless of course you're techie enough to run Linux & Wine. Most people, however, had to buy a copy o
PS: Google Strikes Back (Score:2)
One other thing. If you go to a Google web site with a non-Google browser (including Edgium), Google always does a hard-sell for Chrome. In the case of Edge, it does that every*time. At least with Firefox Google eventually leaves you alone with your choice.
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So buy used you stupid fuck. Why pay full price for half service? Buy used or shut the fuck up.
Re:Deja Vu (Score:4, Funny)
Re: Deja Vu (Score:2, Insightful)
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Microsoft is ABSOLUTELY a convicted monopolist.
Given your UID, you're too young to remember the trial.
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Given you UID you clearly didn't follow that trial, or what it was about, even though you were technically alive while it was going on. Well done, ignoramus.
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The trial was about pushing one codebase that had both a browser and an OS in the same codebase. Microsoft wanted "explorer" to treat local files and web files the same, with one universal address bar for local and remote resources (using URLs for local and remote in one "explorer" app.)
The US courts said that the OS must consider remote files and local files DIFFERENT ASSETS and the OS must have DIFFERENT interfaces (win explorer and internet explorer) for "local" and "the internet."
This was, of course, we
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Sometimes an organization is just rotten and corrupt. Breaking it up is the only way to fix it.
Some parts of Microsoft are good, some are not. It would make sense to break off the bad parts and nuke them, but exactly how you do that is not clear.
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It would make sense to kill every "corporation" but nobody with the power to do it has the balls to do it.
Was just about to say (Score:2)
when have they not. Windows 10 is malware masquerading as an OS.
IT'S NOT YOUR MACHINE - STOP THINKING IT IS NOW PAY US OUR LICENSE FEE YOU FILTHY PROLE. /. stupidity detected
[32] Sed ut perspiciatis, unde omnis iste natus error sit voluptatem accusantium doloremque laudantium, totam rem aperiam eaque ipsa, quae ab illo inventore veritatis et quasi architecto beatae vitae dicta sunt, explicabo. Nemo enim ipsam voluptatem, quia voluptas sit, aspernatur aut odit aut fugit, sed quia consequuntur magni dolores
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Yup. Still running my rip of Win 7 SP2 on my box with my updates turned off, and it runs fucking great.
Re: Deja Vu (Score:3, Interesting)
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It's not always easy to figure out how to proceed without performing a certain step. I seem to remember having to take some convoluted steps to avoid setting up a Microsoft account. It could be done, but they didn't make it obvious.
Re: Deja Vu (Score:3)
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Yes, I realized if you unplug the network connection then you could create a local account.
Good luck with that if it has WiFi. I had to disable WiFi in the BIOS setup of a machine to install Windows 10 without an account.
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So, you were able to do it, but now think other people aren't as 31337 as you? You changes some bios settings. That's expected of a regular user. Get off your high horse.
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If you're running proprietary software, the machine is. It does what the company wants, and you get to bend over and take it. What are you going to do, cry about it?
You know, there was some bearded weirdo who said some things about that. [gnu.org]
"With software there are only two possibilities: either the users control the program or the program controls the users. If the program controls the users, and the developer controls the program, then the program is an instrument of unjust power." - Richard M Stallman
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I got you beat. I migrated away to Linux back when Windows 95 was being replaced by whatever it was coming up next. The thing that tipped it for me was when Microsoft did a survey of ALL the personal computers in the Washington States Education System and then demanded it buy a license for every machine, EVERY MACHINE, even the Macs at a time when there was no way that a Mac could be changed over to a Windows installation. That cost them some PR points then but not enough. Would it be politically incor
Re:Deja Vu (Score:4, Informative)
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They're far less likely to face any antitrust action these days as that department is now an empty shell. If gov won't do its job, boycott is all that's left.
The bigger question I have is if there would be grounds for an antitrust lawsuit anyway. MS has no market share in mobile, and Windows Server is more of a legacy product than something they're looking to continue developing or innovating in any meaningful way. Google isn't *selling* Chrome, and it's not like IE or Edge refuse to download it, so the playing field is relatively level in that the process to use Edge on Android is approximately the same as it is to use Chrome on Windows. There's a first party d
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If gov won't do its job, boycott is all that's left.
Ah yes, boycott a company to hurt it. Like all those people boycotting Amazon because of how it treats its employees, or that it asks the public to pay for employee sick leave, or how it tries to hide the covid-19 infections and deaths, or of course the massive about of fake products it knowingly sells.
How's that working out again [cnn.com]?
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No, it's more a case of consumer expectations. It's hard to claim anti-trust when ever OS on the market be it Apple, PC, Linux, Tablets, or Mobiles are all bundled with a browser.
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Having a browser bundled in a system doesn't have to mean it is the only browser the system can run. It's only when the browser becomes burdensome with its demands that it be the only browser in the system that we have a problem. Choice is where the power lies and it should not be taken away.
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And MS will successfully argue it isn't since there's no requirement to actually run it and nothing preventing you from downloading an alternative.
Incidentally this also doesn't set them apart from any other OS (except maybe Linux). It's not like you can uninstall the Samsung Browser or Safari from your phone either.
Re: Deja Vu (Score:2)
Also IE on Windows Phone. Configured as "the only browser". Started literally the *day* the probation officer from the last time went away.
Re:Deja Vu (Score:5, Informative)
I just got this. It did install automatically and run through the setup process, which allowed me to turn off privacy-invasive settings. But it's a replacement for the old Edge, the one built into Windows, and for Internet Explorer before that, and since some Windows apps use API's that deliver through the built-in browser, I think it's a good thing to present the privacy options instead of just quietly replacing the old crufty versions of IE and Edge.
The first attempt to "migrate" is an offer to import settings from other browsers, so in case you actually do want to use it you want to keep your bookmarks. The option to import nothing is there, which is what I clicked.
As far as pinning, it's a bit annoying if you use something else like I do, but it's nothing crazy and takes literally 1 second to undo.
It didn't hijack my default browser. This is the most misleading part of this post. Firefox was not disturbed and was still my default browser. It may have asked to be default if I had actually used it instead of just closing it once setup was done, though most browsers will ask that, and you can always say no.
As for not being able to uninstall it, the OS web view components use Edge, since it replaced the old Edge which replaced Internet Explorer. Removing it would either break things, or just delete the bookmarks while leaving the actual browser in place. Neither is particularly desirable.
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how can M$ possibly think they will get away with it?
Time. A bundled browser with the OS is mandatory from a user perspective, and has been for the best part of 20 years. The original case hinged on the novel idea that Microsoft was providing something that users traditionally downloaded and that was anti-competitive. Unfortunately years of boiling the frog now have pushed the expectations in the other way. No user would tolerate an OS that didn't come bundled with a browser.
Remember the old version of Windows for Europe that originally asked you which browse
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Hey there SEC, nice Windows network you've got there, would be a shame if anything.. happened to it, wouldn't it? Would be a terrible, terrible shame.
Now, you were saying something about our pushing Edge browser onto Windows 10 users? Surely you understand it's for their own.. protection.. yes? We here at Microsoft only have the safety of our end users in mind. You're all for protection and safety, aren't you?
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As I recollect, the court was just about to decide whether to break Microsoft up into smaller corporations or to make it publish the source code of Windows.
Then George W. Bush was elected President, and the Justice Department unaccountably changed its mind.
The new penalty was that Microsoft had to promise never again to use cynical and illegal methods to drive Netscape out of business. That more or less took care of itself, as Netscape had already gone out of business.
Note that this was just the choice of p
stfu (Score:4, Insightful)
You're running Windows. What did you expect?
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He's running Windows 10, not Windows 7 Pirate Edition, fixed that for you...
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The nice thing about Windows 7 Legit Edition is that I no longer have to deal with Microsoft's update shenanigans.
Have the pirates figured out how to tap into Microsoft's extended support update stream for Windows 7 like they did for Windows XP?
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Your sig, (only the State obtains its revenue by coercion), is proven false by this story. By the Libertarian 'force or fraud' criteria, Microsoft coerced people into replacing earlier versions (by force) with Windows 10. Now they're doing the same with their browser.
Microsoft, (and many other corporations), regularly obtain revenue by coercion. I suppose you could argue that these days corporations are the state. That's an argument I'm totally on board with.
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Which part of it were you bored with? Also, do you agree that Microsoft stongarmed people onto Windows 10 from a perfectly suitable OS in the form of Windows 7? Can you name anything useful that Windows 10 can do that Windows 7 cannot, not counting deliberate arbitrary restrictions like Forza Horizon 4 being Windows 10 only?
Re: stfu (Score:2)
You do, because people like that are why we don't have any non-crap choices anymore for soo many things. From phones to the supermarket. From jobs to parties. You name it.
ransomware? (Score:3, Insightful)
"But the insanely intrusive app I'm talking about isn't a piece of ransomware. It's Microsoft's new Chromium Edge browser"
I'd submit that it's exactly a piece of ransomware.
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I'd submit that it's exactly a piece of ransomware.
Since the underlying platform comes from Google from whence Chrome hails, the correct term is spyware.
LinuxMint (Score:2)
>> you'd probably tell me to run a virus scanner and stay away from shady websites, no?
No. I'd tell you to install LinuxMint
Yes, the excecution was hamfisted, but... (Score:5, Insightful)
When windows 10 came to the fore, it had to browsers, user facing (Trident)Edge that was not only used to browse the web, but also, as a library of sorts for recent apps that needed web services, and a sort-of-hidden away IE11, that acted more like a Library than anything else.
Microsoft realized that Making Edge relevant was a lossing battle, so, they decided to make a new Edge (chromium)Edge, to be the user facing browser and the foundation for even-more-recent apps that need web services. But, since Microsoft is all about backwards compatibility, the can not simply ditch (Trident)Edge, just like they can not simply ditch IE11. Therefore, they hide IE11 and (Trident)Edge.
But since Windows needs a default browser, they push (Chromium)Edge as an update to all Win10 users.
Now, do not get me wrong, ignoring your preferences and making it hard to opt out is a dick move, but the reason (chromium)Edge gets pushed in the first place, is comprensible.
As for whay you can not unisntall it anymore, is before now it was being tested, but now, it has been promoted to integral part of the OS.
A small annoyance for people with 64GB or more of storage, a huge probem for people with 32GB Storage
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They are still selling devices that run of space as soon as Windows 10 updates itself, it's disgusting. I knew things were getting bad when Windows 8 went the way it did, Windows 10 is the nail in the coffin, I hope. And with the death of Microsoft someone will open source Windows 7 and we can do incremental fixes on that, instead!
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This is good. It's about time Microsoft killed shitty $200 "computers".
But make no mistake this isn't a Microsoft issue. There are plenty of Android devices out there that come full out of the box. And the Netbook era showed us that manufacturers could screw up Linux systems even moreso.
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Why? Shouldn't poor people be using computers?
Wow, you really are a Microsoft apologist, aren't you. It certainly is a Microsoft issue. Just because other vendors have the same issue doesn't make it not a Microsoft issue.
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This is good. It's about time Microsoft killed shitty $200 "computers".
Why? Shouldn't poor people be using computers?
No, you dolt. When a poor person buys a $200 "computer" which doesn't have the space to do an upgrade, they are buying a paperweight. That thing will be compromised in short order, then they are on the hook for more money to get someone to fix it. Or out another $200 to buy another one. That's just ripping them off.
Walmart has a sub-$200 laptop on the market now which has this exact problem. The average poor person who is just looking for something the kids can do their school work on doesn't understand tha
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It's perfectly possible to make a fully working and functional device for many common use cases for under $200.
ChromeOS for instance occupies around 4GB, leaving over 20GB free on a 32GB device - enough for 5 more copies of the OS.
The fact is windows is not meant for such lowend devices, it cannot really compete in this market. Neither is macos, which is why apple don't make ultra lowend products that would damage the brand.
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As for whay you can not unisntall it anymore, is before now it was being tested, but now, it has been promoted to integral part of the OS.
This isn't new. You haven't been able to uninstall Edge since Windows 10 1903 at least (I didn't check on versions prior to that). I'm currently running 1909 with an older non Chrome Edge browser. Can't uninstall that either.
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You can uninstall if it you feel like going through a pointless complete waste of time exercise. Who the hell really cares. Delete the icon if it pops up on your desktop and move on with your life.
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The idea that an OS should come with 3 browsers is ridiculous... A choice of 3 sure, but to have 3 mandatory browsers installed at all times on every system is just monumentally stupid.
In fact i believe it's worse than that, because there is a 64bit version *and* a 32bit version of each.
The fact that 32GB of storage is not considered enough says it all really... Wasn't so long ago that 32GB was the domain of full-rack size storage arrays.
It is uninstallable. (Score:2)
I have 3 computers right now, a win 10 work machine (enterprise) and two personal win 7 pros.
The laptop win 7 got infected with Edge, but I was able to remove it, right from Add/Remove Programs.
The desktop with Win 7 and the laptop with Win 10 are so far unaffected.
One day I'll take the next step, which is to go back to Linux. But maybe the next step for me is no PC at all, that's how so over I am about all that is Internet-related.
What was once fun discovery (the DOS days / early Win and BBSs) now has bec
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Windows 7 updates stopped months ago. How are you getting Edge?
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Microsoft released an update for Edge on Windows 7, literally the day after their official end of support.
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The laptop win 7 got infected with Edge, but I was able to remove it, right from Add/Remove Programs.
Windows 7 doesn't have the ability to prevent you from uninstalling a program installed in Add/Remove Programs. Windows 10 on the other hand does. The uninstall option for Edge is greyed out.
That's not new though. The uninstall option has been greyed out for quite a few windows releases now.
Was the reporter surprised (Score:2)
Windows 10 came with a browser (Score:4, Insightful)
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as at least microsoft is generally selling useful stuff instead of just ads
I can't get behind this line of thinking. In fact I trust exactly the opposite. I don't like a business handling my personal data as a cheap side gig. On the flip side data management is Google's business. Data to Google is like the Cocacola recipe, something to guard heavily while they make money from it.
No doubt Google make more money with data, but in terms of who I trust not to pass my data on, let it leak out, or have it miss-handled, it sure as heck isn't a company who doesn't have data handling as th
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Why shouldn't it be updated like any other part of windows?
Updating is fine - even expected.
What is not fine or expected is an "update" to your preferred settings: having the default browser choice switched without you implicitly agreeing/setting it, having you desktop/taskbar populated with 'new' shortcuts that you didn't add yourself, and then being harassed about your previous explicit choices repeatedly.
P.S. hey Slashdot, it's fucking 2020 - get unicode working already!!
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What is not fine or expected is an "update" to your preferred settings: having the default browser choice switched without you implicitly agreeing/setting it, having you desktop/taskbar populated with 'new' shortcuts that you didn't add yourself, and then being harassed about your previous explicit choices repeatedly.
Eh, this seems to be much ado about nothing.
They provided a major version update to a core piece of OS software, and it reset all of the settings to the new software's default settings. Why is this news? I miss the old days when /. was news for nerds. Now it's "angst for the sake of angst" 3/4 of the time.
It's sloppy and lazy to not carry over all of the previous settings, but it's not like this hasn't been done thousands of times before by thousands of other software vendors. The author doesn't seem to und
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It's sloppy and lazy to not carry over all of the previous settings, but it's not like this hasn't been done thousands of times before by thousands of other software vendors.
Oh right, because "everyone else does this too" is the perfect excuse to absolve their bad behavior.
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The core of the browser is open source, you can get builds which have no hooks to microsoft, google or any other third party (eg search for ungoogled chromium).
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Which would be something to talk about if that's what happened. Except that's not what happened.
It *can* be removed (Score:2)
With system restore - but that's not a real solution.
I ran a system restore, then paused updates for 30 days. Hoping a permanent solution will appear.
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This is one of the most impressively stupid things I've read on the internet in a little bit. Bravo!
You've resorted to a system restore because you don't like a core piece of your OS getting updated and some default settings applied? If you're that paranoid about Microsoft, why on earth are you running Windows?
And what "permanent solution" can you possibly be hoping for? That they remove Edge from the OS? It's the next iteration of Internet Explorer! That's not going away. They have been using this as a cor
Microsoft trying and failing to EEE Chrome (Score:2)
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And yet you keep using Windows. (Score:2)
Reminds me of the gimp from Pulp Fiction.
Hey, I don't judge! -- :D
Happend in Windows 7 too (Score:2)
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A few weeks ago I wiped an older computer of mine clean and reinstalled Windows 7.
Microsoft is now the least of your worries.
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Then why are you using windows?
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So what's new? (Score:2)
Basically the only thing that is new with this Windows Update then is that you can't uninstall Edge? I mean the rest of the description basically sounds like every Windows Feature update ever released. They have all reset defaults to Edge, they have all installed Edge, they have all put the damn icons on the desktop.
Actually I was wrong. I just realized I'm typing here on a 1909 version of Windows with old Edge browser, ... and the uninstall option is grayed out.
So basically nothing here is new at all, just
Gotta win the browser war! (Score:3)
Even though essentially nobody has paid for browser software in the past decade. Browsers are absolutely vital technology for the world and it's free. If the big players are going to keep playing games with selling personal information, will we have to regulate the entire industry?
Funny timing (Score:2)
---
screen just got taken over by a new app that I'd never installed or asked for
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That's funny, that's pretty much exactly what the user said on my phone call 30 seconds ago, the call I just hung up from.
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you'd probably tell me to run a virus scanner and stay away from shady websites
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Not really. I told him to go have dinner and not touch the computer.
Why not? (Score:2)
Maybe/Probably the EC will notice (Score:3)
After all, they got more respect from Microsoft than did the USA DoJ.
It would be fun to see how Microsoft reacts if the EC decided to stomp them again.
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It would be fun to see how Microsoft reacts if the EC decided to stomp them again.
What for specifically? Browser bundling is an expectation now, not a curiosity that it was in the 90s. The EC additionally clamped down due to the large market share that MS got when it did its practice, yet here we are and they seem to be achieving close to nothing. 6% market share after 7 years of efforts. I don't see the EC stomping on anything.
And as for how MS would react? Easy: Simply put the browser choice window back up in the N version of Windows 10.
Sorry... (Score:2)
But it's not YOUR operating system. Microsoft has said this over and over and actions like this are just part of how they do business.
Some people are willfully ignorant.. (Score:5, Informative)
Five windows 10 computers in the house. The guy that wrote the article is distorting things.
1. I got a screen that said something about the new Edge. Gave it a few seconds then clicked the "skip" at the bottom.
2. Oh no! Edge is pinned to the taskbar... just like when my windows install was brand new... I have to right click and select unpin, so call the feds.
3. The only way I've seen prompt to change default browser is by actually starting Edge. You know, the same as when you first launch Chrome, or FF, or Opera or...
4. Yep Opera is still there, still my default, shortcut is still on taskbar, nothing missing from favorites etc.
I've gone through same thing 5 times. If the author isn't making things up, they practically had to TRY to force the non-issues they had. Sorry guys and gals, installing a major update to a core bit of your OS and highlighting it to the user in case they might be interested is not a sign of MS relapsing. As I expected, this thread is full of people that will not let go of 90's Microsoft and see monopolies everywhere.
Re:Some people are willfully ignorant.. (Score:4, Informative)
2. Oh no! Edge is pinned to the taskbar... just like when my windows install was brand new... I have to right click and select unpin, so call the feds.
Exactly this...
That was there by default when the install was new, and you the user explicitly chose to remove it making a statement that you, the user and owner of the machine DO NOT WANT IT THERE.
The fact that they put it back, despite you having explicitly removed it is extremely insulting and shows contempt for your choices.
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I'm amazed at the number of people who apparently can't understand this basic fact. If you wanted to change your mind and make Edge your default browser, it would be easy to do. But you said you didn't want it, and have given Microsoft no grounds to believe you may have changed your mind. You didn't say "No just 'til the next update," or "No 'til tomorrow". You said "NO".
Microsoft has made it very clear they have no respect for you. As far as I'm concerned, this makes Microsoft fair game for whatever i
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Do you have Chrome installed and is it your default web browser? I've noticed that Microsoft has been targeting the Chrome users the most aggressively trying to get them to switch to Edge for some time. If you have Firefox they don't harass you nearly as much. I would guess Opera and other browsers might be similar.
Windows 10 itself did this (Score:2)
If I told you that my entire computer screen just got taken over by a new app that I'd never installed or asked for -- it just magically appeared on my desktop
Actually, that's what the entirety of Windows 10 did to Windows 7. It took great effort to prevent it on many systems, and to undo it when it happened. From other posts here, this new Edge instance seems downright benign in comparison.
Even on the unsupported Windows7 (Score:2)
>>Tried to convince me to migrate away from Chrome, giving me no discernible way to click away or say no
Had to bring up the taskmanager to kill the process.
Settle down Beavis, settle down. (Score:3)
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Asking you again, after you have already expressed your decision to use a third party browser is unreasonable and shows a lack of respect for the choice that you've made.
Adding back shortcuts that you have explicitly removed is the same.
If the user has removed shortcuts and set another browser as default then their choices should be respected.
Who would believe it? (Score:2)
All those Windows 7 and 8 users who got windows 10 that way in the first place, that's who.
So long and thanks for all the fish (Score:2)
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Well, what _else_ are they supposed to do? (Score:2)
You tell me: how _else_ are they supposed to get people to use Edge?
They've tried all the conventional things, like bundling it in the Start menu, and advertising it, and stuff. Nothing works. Users keep using other browsers. What was Microsoft supposed to do, just give up?