Signal Launches Face-Blurring Tool as US Protesters Embrace Encrypted Messaging (venturebeat.com) 117
Law enforcement officials across the U.S. have already revealed that they will leverage facial recognition technology to retroactively target protesters following the killing of George Floyd, with police asking the public for footage and photos. Against this backdrop, Signal is introducing a new feature that can automatically obfuscate faces shared within the encrypted messaging app, as the company says it's "working hard to keep up with the increased traffic" from protesters. From a report: Moving forward, Signal users will be able to activate a feature in the main photo editing toolbox that will automatically blur all faces it identifies in an image. As with many automated computer vision tools, Signal doesn't claim that its face-blurring smarts are 100% effective. It may not identify all faces in a photo, which is why users can manually obscure faces by drawing the blur brush across each face with their finger.
Re:Don't All Black Lives Matter? (Score:5, Insightful)
Race issues are used, misused and abused to provide cover for a terrorist agenda. Divided we are weak.
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Interestingly, I'm getting a lot of downmods from leftists who want to cover-up these crimes by the rioters.
But ALL Black Lives Matter.
These people deserve justice [imgflip.com] just as much as Floyd does.
It's weird to see that some mods think that these particular black lives don't matter.
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Re:Don't All Black Lives Matter? (Score:4, Insightful)
So... SOME Black Lives Matter?
We all know that many black folks don't really care about their people dying... they kill more of themselves than just about anyone else according to the statistics.
But when you have a chance to act like a victim? People can't resist, we currently live in a victim culture right now.
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We all know that many black folks don't really care about their people dying...
Who's this "we"? You asked all black folks did you?
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Yes, they do. (Score:5, Insightful)
All you did was post a photo of 6 random people with no links to reputable sources. You didn't even provide their names so someone could verify your claims (it's almost like they don't matter to you). Yes, some people were unfortunately killed by the rioters that have taken advantage of this situation (just as some people have also been killed by police that have taken advantage of this situation). I sincerely hope that ALL killings committed during time are fully investigated and prosecuted. However; none of that has anything to due with the peaceful protesters or the rightness of their cause. Just like the Florida man who tried to bomb journalists [cnbc.com] and the El-Paso mass shooter [nytimes.com] don't represent all Trump supporters, the few violent rioters don't represent all BLM supporters.
Sad thing about all this... (Score:2)
The sad thing about all this is that the rioting is exactly what elements of the Right need to yet again gloss over the race issues this country has. This couldn't be better for these people if it had been planned.
Re: Sad thing about all this... (Score:2)
Let me know when BLM starts picketing their federal congressmembers 24/7 to strip qualified immunity from the cops and change NLRB regs so that police unions have no say over record retention and disciplinary proceedings. Because until then all they are doing is pissing in the wind at best and sticking out their hand for government cheese at worst like the 100 million+ LA just stripped from their police budget for "outreach".
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There is certainly a major push for more police accountability from BLM which is basically the gist of what you're getting at here. To demand such specifics from a movement that has no central controlling body is a bit much though.
Plus, "strip qualified immunity from the cops and change NLRB regs so that police unions have no say over record retention and disciplinary proceedings." doesn't fit well on a sign.
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Can you explain what these police abuses always occur in Democrat controlled areas?
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That would be a fantastic question if the premise it was based on had any basis in reality. https://www.aljazeera.com/inde... [aljazeera.com]
To round this out it should also be said that blue states typically have significantly higher populations than red states so going off this I'd wager a guess that per capita police killings of blacks is probably higher in red states that have meaningfully sized black populations (so leaving out states like Montana or Main where less than 1% of the population is black)
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Well, they would be investigated, except that Signal is releasing a tool to hide them. That is the point being made. Rioters are NOT protestors. Burning a building is NOT protesting. Getting a new TV or a pair of shoes is NOT protesting. Killing innocent people is NOT protesting.
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To hear some people on Twitter, posting something they agree with is "literally violence" but burning down people's homes and businesses isn't. Apparently, even that one building with a kid in it [townhall.com] (whom they rescued, thankfully).
Then maybe we can agree on something (Score:3)
> All you did was post a photo of 6 random people with no links to reputable sources
Actually, it's more like 11 people [ktla.com] (not all of whom are black), but it's not hard to find this news if you look. I posted the meme because it makes it easier to see, reliable sources do matter to me, always have.
That said, let's take David Dorn [kmov.com] for a well-known example. He's the guy in the middle of that picture. Shouldn't that be someone that everyone recognizes? I know the man by sight and support those who are rais [fundly.com]
Italia Marie Kelly (Score:3)
You see that lady on the lower right of the meme? That's Italia Marie Kelly. Here's her sister discussing how she feels about that [twitter.com]. She was murdered in Davenport, Iowa [nypost.com], a cozy little city on the Mississippi river that I so happen to be quite familiar with. The 'protesters' who murdered her tried to keep the first responders away, they had to fight to get to her. I actually couldn't find a memorial fund for her, though, sadly.
Still wondering why apparently you don't recognize anyone there, though? (it'
a few things (Score:2)
Agreed, it's not hard to find this news if you look. So why were you complaining about "leftists who want to cover-up these crimes by rioters" in your first post? Given the difficult circumstances, the media has done an excellent job of reporting all of the crimes committed. Speaking of which, here are some interesting statistics for you to think about. [theintercept.com] Of the 180 assaults on journalists durin
Police have no shame (Score:2)
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Law Enforcement Seizes Masks Meant To Protect Anti-Racist Protesters From COVID-19 [huffingtonpost.ca]
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> So why were you complaining about "leftists who want to cover-up these crimes by rioters" in your first post?
The fact that you didn't recognize ANY of those faces comes to mind.
Regarding journalists, most of those are from failure to disperse. I'm not going to count it as "violent" if the police tell you to disperse or obey curfew and then use force when you don't. There are a handful of cases, though, where the police have snapped and done things they shouldn't. They should be charged appropriatel
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Journalists are essential workers. The curfew does not apply to them anymore than it does the police or ambulance. Nice try though.
So are the police, hiding behind gas masks (not COVID masks) and even hiding their badges [theintercept.com] and even refusing to identify their service branch [twitter.com].
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> Journalists are essential workers. The curfew does not apply to them anymore than it does the police or ambulance. Nice try though.
They do have to obey orders to disperse, though. Weird that you ignore that part. The curfew is part of what made it an unlawful gathering, which is why it's mentioned.
> So are the police, hiding behind gas masks (not COVID masks) and even hiding their badges [theintercept.com] and even refusing to identify their service branch [twitter.com].
The police can (and have) b
one last time (Score:2)
Sweet Jesus Christ, are you actually blaming the media for the Iraq war?!? Not Bush and Cheney and Rumsfeld? Not Powell and his bullshit briefing to the UN? Not the CIA and their "yellow cake uranium" or "aluminum tubes" bullshit? I'll admit, most of the American media swal
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> Sweet Jesus Christ, are you actually blaming the media for the Iraq war?!?
You seem to think that blame is exclusive OR, I think that it's AND.
But yes, including Fox. They amplified a bunch of lies long after they were exposed as such.
> I'll admit, most of the American media swallowed that crap and beat the patriotism drum
The problem is that they knew, they published this stuff to retain "access."
> If there's one good thing that's come out of the Trump administration, it's that his lies are so b
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Oh yeah, for the "impeached, illegitimate" president part, umm, you know that the impeachment already failed, right?
And the russia hoax [redstate.com] is unraveling in Congressional testimony. Rod is now trying to explain how he "didn't rubber stamp" the documents but also didn't read them and how he approved a special counsel over things he knew (and has admitted) weren't true.
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Divided we are weak.
Good thing all races and creeds can rally together to protest injustice under BLM. Oh wait... BLM is a textbook case of dividing people. That's exactly why the media pushes it so hard.
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BLM is a textbook case of dividing people
Why should it divide people? It's not like they are saying other lives don't matter. Blacks have suffered from racism and stereotyping for so many hundreds of years that they indeed have valid concerns. It costs me nothing to agree with them.
Re: Don't All Black Lives Matter? (Score:2)
Because even if you assume that all "unknown" murders are committed by white people, the rate at which police kill blacks correlates pretty fucking well with the rate at which blacks kill others, mainly other blacks. This means it's not a racism problem, it's a police brutality problem.
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If you look at BLM protests you often see plenty of white people. Try again.
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Interesting, isn't it, how many racist moderators there are who don't think those black lives matter [imgflip.com] just because they were murdered by rioters?
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Oh please, enlighten me. How is this evil being perpetrated.
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I'll do you a two better from where I used to live:
https://www.wthr.com/article/d... [wthr.com] --> Still not solved
https://www.wthr.com/article/c... [wthr.com] --> Three years later, never solved and there were a dozen witnesses who won't talk.
These are considered black lives that didn't matter. No protests about either one of these kids losing their lives because the perp's skin color wasn't white. No cooperation with the police because uh... it's racist to lock up people who murder black kids I guess?
I have no problem
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No protests about either one of these kids losing their lives because the perp's skin color wasn't white.
But they don't know this. Nobody is talking.
One possibility is that if it was a black shooter, African-Americans are less motivated to help the police than they are to keep the faith within their own community. And that's much the same as the way police think. Close ranks and maintain the brotherhood of the blue even if one of their own fucks up.
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your thought processes baffle me.
These are considered black lives that didn't matter. No protests about either one of these kids losing their lives because the perp's skin color wasn't white.
So you're comparing murders likely done by criminals to murder committed by our law enforcement and suggesting they're the same thing?
I have no problem strongly prosecuting rioters who are frankly just as racist as those cops since the rioting disproportionately hurts minorities.
Hahaha, what? People don't travel to other communities to riot, they riot in their own towns but yeah they're probably racist against themselves.
Wanting to have a police force that actually works to reduce crime and having a community that stops putting up with criminals and works with the cops to improve their lives is now considered to make you a grand-wizard in the KKK.
...And now you're just making shit up to diminish the other side. If you're in the right you shouldn't have to make stuff up, no one has been called a member of the KKK simply for being in favor of la
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> They will matter even less once the police are defunded.
> My advice is to GTFO while your home is still worth something.
Interesting how this started after NYC Mayor de Blasio's daughter was arrested for throwing stuff at the cops.
I'm guessing he's mad at them.
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once the police are defunded
Then it will be Roof Koreans for the win. Interesting note: During the LA riots, the police ran away from looters and vandals who had rocks in a panic. But they bravely confronted business owners who were just taking a stand on their own property and confiscated firearms. Maybe it is about time they defunded the police.
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But it's fine to kill people with the virus if you're protesting. And, it's fine for this dishonest company to help protesters that are looting get away with their crimes.
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So a million years ago -- I mean two weeks ago -- when every social networking platform was working hard to censor any and all protest messages from evil Nazi filth like hairdressers, restaurant owners, etc. who wanted to protest stupid and non-scientific Corona lockdowns that was considered great and wonderful. No privacy protection for that evil filth we want burned from our society!
But actively working to enable rioters to conspire for violent attacks on hair salons, restaurants, etc... is now considered good.
Oh, and remember kids: Corona can't spread as long as you say F-the-Police #ACAB_CURED_RONA
With a name like CajunArson, are you pro arson, or merely pro blackened chicken?
Re: So this tool is for hairdressers too? (Score:2)
The science on lockdowns is that they do work. https://indaily.com.au/opinion... [indaily.com.au]
Not as well as other measures, but those measures are illegal in the US. https://www.sciencedaily.com/r... [sciencedaily.com]
Very clever (Score:1)
That's a very clever move on Signal's part. Metadata about where people were when is very useful to a hostile government, and having that blurred out by default is absolutely the right move. Sure, the person you're talking to is identifiable, but keeping the 100 random people in the background anonymous is great.
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Blurring is nice. But it also has a honeypot effect. Signal was already popular with the people instigating the riots and it will now be more so.
Signal still knows who chats with who, even if the content is encrypted. That's info authorities can get there hands on, even if it's after the fact.
The first step to rolling up a organization is to identify who talks to who, when and it what order. It identifies players, hierarchy and priority for further investigation.
I know from experience that OS funded NGO's h
Re:Very clever (Score:4, Interesting)
Blurring is also mostly useless, at least for video, because the moving image makes it possible to largely recover the original image. I can't find the original paper I read about this a decade or more ago, but the gist of it is that because the data is manipulated in a well-understood way, you can use multiple slightly different images to approximately recover the original data. Also, there was this paper involving machine learning and image recognition of highly pixelated images [wired.com].
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You guy are basically saying "it's not perfect so it's useless". Security does not work that way. Security is not binary. Each and every little thing that makes it harder for the bad guys is a good thing! The more resources an attacker must spend for each bit of data they want, the less they get in total. Everyone has fixed resources to work wth.
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But the thing is, putting a black box over the face is 100% effective at preventing identification of the face. Why do something computationally expensive and fairly easy to defeat when there's an alternative that is computationally almost free and robust?
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I don't think a prosecutor saying "We took all of these blurred frames from a video and had a (proprietary) computer AI look at them and come up with an image that approximately looks like the defendant!" is going to fly as evidence in court. If it does, we are screwed anyway.
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That's not evidence for a conviction. That is evidence for a warrant. A warrant for a search, arrest and questioning.
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You don't even really need video: find the convolution matrix, invert it, convolve. The benefit of video is that you can essentially see different frames as giving different subpixels of a higher resolution image.
Re: Very clever (Score:2)
I bet at some point that they will be able to create a 3D model of somebody's face from a person's shadow, with enough video frames providing enough angles. Then be able to cross reference that with a model built up from other image and video sources. It's just a matter of time for people to supply and tag enough content of themselves and other well maintained data sources and for data processing capabilities to catch up.
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Eh, this week they're Democrats. Next week who knows? That's the entire founding principle of America: don't trust the government more than you have to, because everyone turns on you eventually, in the fullness of time.
Each little thing we can do to claw back a bit of liberty or at least anonymity is a good thing.
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Re: Very clever (Score:2)
Beat cops are pretty evenly divided among political affiliation. Detectives minority swing Republican, sergeants swing heavy Republican, and the political toady higher ups swing heavy Democrat.
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Exactly. This is why I believe all persons should be fitted with mandatory GPS tracking and body cams. I mean why does anyone have anything to hide. In fact, the 4th amendment is a terrible idea that only helps criminals. I say we repeal that too. While we are at it, this first amendment bullshit keeps jesus out of our schools and allows these terrorists to speak their garbage. Let's repeal that too.
I am willing to give up all my freedom for safety, are you?
Antifa (Score:1)
By "protestors" you mean Antifa and White Nationalist groups, right? Because the rest of us don't hide our faces and are proud to march in protest.
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https://youtu.be/pMjBl3nbgRE?t... [youtu.be]
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Yeah...total bullshit. No one believes you Young Turks shitheads and your "leaked memos". There are anarchy symbols sprayed all over DC. The telltale skinny white dudes all over putting up signs.
Here are a couple of your buddies getting the shit kicked out of them for their nonsense:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
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The FBI checked and they don't think it's Antifa.
https://www.thenation.com/arti... [thenation.com]
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The FBI checked
That picture of the guy wearing the big Antifa flag aside, I'm sure they did their due diligence.
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Protests? (Score:5, Insightful)
Those are rioters, not protesters. Protesters donâ(TM)t do things like loot, riot, commit arson and burn down hundreds houses and businesses (sometimes with people still in them), and then keep the fire department away, throws rocks and fireworks at people, bricks and Molotov cocktails at cars (sometimes with people still in them) and motorcycles, attack bystanders on the street and beat them severely and ambush and kill people.
Letâ(TM)s just say you donâ(TM)t see very many protest signs at these protests. Sure there are some protests in the day hours, but the majority of whatâ(TM)s going on is are riots that are cover for a massive crime wave targeting retailers and in particular luxury stores.
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Let’s just say you don’t see very many protest signs at these protests.
Of course you don't. The original protesters achieved their goal: getting four cops fired because one of them used a choke hold against an intoxicated man who was resisting arrest who then later died while still technically in police custody. Job done. Then they moved the goal posts to be criminal charges, and that happened too. Job done. Then they moved it yet again to be murder charges, and that also happened. So, yet again, job done.
What's the new goal? There isn't any. There are no demands. There's noth
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What's the new goal? There isn't any. There are no demands..
Accountability. It shouldn't take a huge worldwide protest every time a cop does something like that to be held accountable.
Also, in NY there are calls to [changethenypd.org] repeal [innocenceproject.org] 50-a [brooklynnaacp.org]
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The goal is the same as it has always been: end systemic police violence against black people.
This keeps happening. It's not just this one time, it's something that happens over and over. That's what they want to see an end to.
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Sure. We would all like to see it end. Even the most ardent police supporter I know (has police in his family) was condemning the killing of Floyd and some other recent incidents in with very strong language. But the problem is that we have around 800K police in the USA, and they are just ordinary people. 1. Very few places have the know how and resources to properly screen candidates for mental and emotional disposition. Because they are just people, some that are not suited to the job are going to make it
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four cops fired because one of them used a choke hold against an intoxicated man who was resisting arrest who then later died while still technically in police custody.
Four cops fired because three of them sat on top of a handcuffed man that was begging for his life until he passed out while one of them put his knee on his neck for almost 8 minutes even after that man stopped being responsive.
And all this because of the suspicion that he used a fake $20 bill. They even pointed a gun at him while he was still sitting in his car.
Superb police work.
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"The original protesters achieved their goal: getting four cops fired"
OK Ivan.
The goal was not to get cops fired. The goal is to signal unwillingness to tolerate further injustice.
Your anonymous, cowardly attempt to reframe the protests fails.
To you outright murder is just (Score:2)
"died while still technically in police custody"? You are one sick mother fucker.
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I was at my local protests and the reasons signs decreased as the days went on because they were dropped when people ran from pepper balls, tear gas, rubber bullets, and other forms of police violence. Signs reduce mobility.
There are a spectrum of protestors with some advocating for increased accountability (no, firing people for using a painful compliance hold prohibited due to its danger is not the goal, appropriate criminal charges was), some for demilitarization, and some for an elimination of police d
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because one of them used a choke hold against an intoxicated man
For eight minutes while he lay in the street handcuffed and held down by two officers, including two minutes after his heart stopped
who was resisting arrest
Like hell he was. Did you even see the video?
who then later died while still technically in police custody
If lying in the street with some thug's knee on his throat constitues "police custody".
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Number 1 sounds reasonable and is already the case in some jurisdictions for most things. Body cam footage generally belongs to the police department. Just remember body cam footage almost always exponerates the officer and gets used against the person who was being arrested.
Number 2 is already the case in a number of states, I don't think most people would object to that.
Number 3 is already best practice in a lot of places. When I used to work as a bouncer I worked with a lot of people who had been through
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Number 2 will never be met as long as Democrats are beholden to police unions.
Re: Protests? (Score:2)
"Simple"
I don't think that word means what you think it means. Here's a simple solution, have Congress strip law enforcement of Qualified Immunity and change the NLRB regs so that public sector unions can't hide disciplinary records or have a say in disciplinary proceedings.
Blur the vandals too? (Score:1)
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Are they automatically blurring the faces of the people who set fire to things
I'm sure Signal has implemented AI to determine the motivations and moral beliefs of each person photographed. And will only blur the images of those that meet the highest standards.
you keep using that word (Score:4, Insightful)
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*shouldn't have cause to be arrested, or beaten, or shot at
Like the journalists who had "nothing to fear".
Protecting people from the bullshit in the middle line of this post is good policy. We've known "Nothing to fear" is bad policy, dating back much much longer than this current mess of factions.
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Is it algorithmic? (Score:2)
If you blur it consistently, the AI may still be able to recognize the patterns. Just train it with pre-blurred images.
Why is Signal protecting criminals? (Score:3, Insightful)
There's a BIG difference between protesters and people involved with criminal activities (vandalism, looting, assault, obstruction of justice or first responders).
Why is Signal sullying their name to protect such people? If they're so willing to be photographed and videod doing peaceful protests, then what do they have to hide?
I get the need to protest to enact change. I have YET to find a justification for the rampant violence and criminal activity that is occurring.
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I suppose you think Apple and Google are sullying their names by supplying uncrackable phones to criminals too. I can't imagine what you think of Tor and GPG.
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I'm a BIG privacy advocate! And there are indeed good reasons for preserving it for the general populace, key above all - most people with a little authority abuse it.
In this case, it's hard to justify ongoing preservation of anonymity in the face of illegal actions.
Perhaps a better way would be to have the ability to "undo" the anonymity through the use of trustworthy screeners who will determine if there is an act of vandalism, looting, etc. that is being obscured, and if that's not the case, maintain th
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If anyone can undo it then everyone can undo it.
Re:Why is Signal protecting criminals? (Score:5, Insightful)
It's practically the same argument that people make against the fifth amendment. James Duane's excellent video Don't Talk to the Police [youtube.com] provides excellent examples of why people who are completely innocent should still use their fifth amendment rights. Did the founding fathers want to sully their names in order to protect criminals? Hardly. They realized that as bad as criminals might be, the state and its monopoly on violence can be far, far worse.
I hope the looters and agitators can eventually be brought to justice and that they will pay any debt to society that they owe for their crimes, but I don't see why we should give up our rights and bend over backwards to make it easier for the state to prosecute us. Take a step back and imagine if Signal were doing this in response to the protests in Hong Kong against the CCP who claim those protestors are engaging in criminal acts. Did you opinion about the morality of this decision change at all?
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You have good and valid points! I've been at the receiving end of police lies about my activities, and they fought it (by trying to intimidate me) until 2 hours before court time, and they dropped the case. I was going to use THEIR video against themselves (because I *WAS* innocent).
Imagine the loss of evidence by blurring your own photo showing innocence.
And this picture anonymization is going to be pointless to some degree anyway, when everyone's cell phone is giving them away when they're in a curfew-
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> Why is Signal sullying their name to protect such people?
Have you ever heard a talk by Moxie Marlinspike? This is completely in character and in line with his work and messaging which is why I switched from iPhone to a Galaxy Nexus back in the day to run RedPhone and TextSecure.
Why are the police sullying their name by covering up their name tags and body cams while they engage in actual violence and criminal activity?
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THIS is a good point! Policies should be changed so that ANY police action MUST be recorded, or disciplinary actions happen. It protects both sides from allegations of wrongdoing. And THIS is what BLM should be agitating for if they really believe that they're being discriminated against by police.
Better idea (Score:2)
How about instead of blurring the faces of protesters they face swap them with the faces of politicians?
Demo pics look like they're doing it wrong (Score:2)
Unless this is done using a Gaussian (random) blur, this is the WRONG way to do it. If the blur is done using a non-random algorithm (like averaging with nearest neighbor pixels), the process is reversible. Even though the rectangle looks blurry, with the color data in the blurred rectangle plus the color data of the surrounding non-blurred adjacent pixels, you can reverse the [ox.ac.uk]
What about other people's photos? (Score:2)
So what if Signal blurs your face. There are people all around, all taking their own pictures with their own phones and apps. The police won't need images from Signal!
No reason for "protests" now (Score:1)
Cops arrested, will be tried. Stop the protests so we can concentrate on the criminals. The trained antifa criminals.
Why blame blacks instead of trying respect? (Score:1)