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It's 2018 and USB Type-C Is Still a Mess (androidauthority.com) 330

Posted by msmash from the closer-look dept.
An anonymous reader shares a column: USB Type-C was billed as the solution for all our future cable needs, unifying power and data delivery with display and audio connectivity, and ushering in an age of the one-size-fits-all cable. Unfortunately for those already invested in the USB Type-C ecosystem, which is anyone who has bought a flagship phone in the past couple of years, the standard has probably failed to live up to the promises. Even the seemingly most basic function of USB Type-C -- powering devices -- has become a mess of compatibility issues, conflicting proprietary standards, and a general lack of consumer information to guide purchasing decisions. The problem is that the features supported by different devices aren't clear, yet the defining principle of the USB Type-C standard makes consumers think everything should just work.

The charging example clearly demonstrates a very common frustration with the standard as it currently stands. Moving phones between different chargers, even of the same current and voltage ratings, often won't produce the same charging speeds. Furthermore, picking a third party USB Type-C cable to replace the typically too short included cable can result in losing fast charging capabilities.
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It's 2018 and USB Type-C Is Still a Mess More

It's 2018 and USB Type-C Is Still a Mess

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  • New Standard == broken ... (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward

    Yet another example of products going out the door while a spec is still in flux -- you get a random collection of things which do and don't work.

    This is why being the first adopter of most tech is a dumb idea, because that first generation is going to be shit.

    I'm long since over giving a damn about being on the cutting edge, because that edge cuts in more than one direction.

  • apple missed it up with too few ports when 1 is needed for power.

    • And they also dropped the ball by removing the classic USB 3.0 type A ports at the same time. What was the point of that? You can have both USB 3.0 and USB-C on the same computer.

      • Re:apple missed it with too few ports when 1 is ne (Score:4, Insightful)

        by Joe_Dragon ( 2206452 ) on Monday June 11, 2018 @03:08PM (#56766984)

        so apple can sell $29.99 adapters

      • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

        by TheFakeTimCook ( 4641057 )

        And they also dropped the ball by removing the classic USB 3.0 type A ports at the same time. What was the point of that? You can have both USB 3.0 and USB-C on the same computer.

        And you can use any USB 3.0 device with a USB-C port with a cable change or a $2 passive adapter.

        Now what?

        • No, you can't. The official recommendation for the flagship phones with USB C connectors and USB 3's fast charging / power delivery shit is to ONLY use a C to C cable. They explicitly state things are NOT supported with an A to C cable or adapter.

          • No, you can't. The official recommendation for the flagship phones with USB C connectors and USB 3's fast charging / power delivery shit is to ONLY use a C to C cable. They explicitly state things are NOT supported with an A to C cable or adapter.

            If you are talking about charging, then that is an entirely different story. I was talking about data transfer (with maybe minimal power supplying, like to a USB-stick).

        • What's the point in having thinner laptops if we need to carry adapters around?

      • And they also dropped the ball by removing the classic USB 3.0 type A ports at the same time. What was the point of that? You can have both USB 3.0 and USB-C on the same computer.

        Eliminating the USB 3.0 ports allowed Ive to shave another 0.01mm off the thickness of the laptop.

        Of course, you're not supposed to think about the fact that you now have to carry around a dock, in addition to your laptop, if you need to use any ports other than USB-C. Nor are you to think about the crap keyboard you'll have to put up with, going forward.

        #Courage

      • And they also dropped the ball by removing the classic USB 3.0 type A ports at the same time. What was the point of that? You can have both USB 3.0 and USB-C on the same computer.

        That's why I got a Dell XPS. Small, light AND powerful, and has regular power jack along with USB-C and USB-A

      • Boring (Score:3)

        by k2r ( 255754 )

        again non-Apple-users educating everyone what a fail Apple products are.
        If only they could fail once in their life so successfully as Apple does...

        MBP user here, travelling very happy with two ports and a tiny USB-C to -A / HDMI Adaptor bought for €10. Every external device I use works fine and the stuff I carry is greatly reduced. Maybe because I didn't buy the cheapest Chinese cables / power banks / chargers ?

    • apple missed it up with too few ports when 1 is needed for power.

      Who was talking about Apple?

      And you think FOUR USB-C/TB 3 Ports is too few?!?

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by qzzpjs ( 1224510 )

        And you think FOUR USB-C/TB 3 Ports is too few?!?

        Apple's first MacBook with USB-C/TB had only one port. The Pro's that came out a couple years later had 4.

        • And you think FOUR USB-C/TB 3 Ports is too few?!?

          Apple's first MacBook with USB-C/TB had only one port. The Pro's that came out a couple years later had 4.

          Well, I agree that the first (non-pro) MacBook that had only 1 USB-C Port was a mistake; but it was not alone. There was a Pixel 2 (IIRC) notebook that was the same way.

          I guess they both assumed that inexpensive USB-C Docks would take care of it, and they probably have to a large extent.

          • No one holds up Google's hardware design as "world class". Many here (and elsewhere) espouse Apple's hardware design as "world class". Shipping a laptop with a single connector for everything is decidedly NOT "world class". Yet because APPLE - we have to assume it was the right choice anyway, and the rest of the world is too stupid to realize it.

            • No one holds up Google's hardware design as "world class". Many here (and elsewhere) espouse Apple's hardware design as "world class". Shipping a laptop with a single connector for everything is decidedly NOT "world class". Yet because APPLE - we have to assume it was the right choice anyway, and the rest of the world is too stupid to realize it.

              I am ABSOLUTELY with you that the single USB-C MacBook was a "what were they thinking?" moment! I guess the idea was that you would get an appropriate Dock that had a port-compliment to suit your needs.

              Problem was, when that original MacBook with the single USB-C came out, there really wasn't that spectacular, to put it mildly. Now, it is quite different! There are several inexpensive (~$50) USB-C Docks that have a typical compliment of, for example, 3 or 4 USB 3.0 Ports, an SD/MiniSD (and sometimes also a

      • In 2011, the highest-end MacBook Pro had power, 3x USB-A, ethernet, headphone, cardbus, and a card reader. That's 8 ports.

        Today, the highest-end MacBook Pro has 4x USB-C and a headphone jack. That's 5 ports, and we need dongles for USB-A, ethernet, and a card reader. I'll grant that cardbus is largely replaced by thunderbolt, but the overall situation is still a massive step backward in portability and capability, if you use any peripherals.

        • In 2011, the highest-end MacBook Pro had power, 3x USB-A, ethernet, headphone, cardbus, and a card reader. That's 8 ports.

          Today, the highest-end MacBook Pro has 4x USB-C and a headphone jack. That's 5 ports, and we need dongles for USB-A, ethernet, and a card reader. I'll grant that cardbus is largely replaced by thunderbolt, but the overall situation is still a massive step backward in portability and capability, if you use any peripherals.

          Wrong.

          It is neither.

          In fact, it it is far MORE flexible, unless you rely on FireWire (which is still possible; but your choices are quite limited). And as far as total available "fanout", there is simply no comparison with any other laptop with ANY combination of dedicated ports you care to name.

          • As an owner and user of both, I wholeheartedly disagree.

            • As an owner and user of both, I wholeheartedly disagree.

              What do you need to fan-out to, that cannot be found in one, or at most, two inexpensive (around $50 apiece) USB-C Docks these days?

  • The controversial Detect Offbrand Cable feature (Score:5, Funny)

    by Applehu Akbar ( 2968043 ) on Monday June 11, 2018 @02:25PM (#56766648)

    When you plug a cheap offbrand charging cable into your device, the USB-C standard signals this by emitting a blue flash and burning your device to a crisp. This feature has proven less popular with users than was at first envisioned.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by gweihir ( 88907 )

      Nice one!

    • Comment removed based on user account deletion

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by Junta ( 36770 )

        In USB type-c, offbrand cables are a minefield. The problem is that we have higher current running over tiny connectors. Much more room for destructive overcurrent situations. We are talking about orders of magnitude higher wattage, combined with a 24 pin connector in the same form factor we formerly only wanted to do 5 pins in.

        When it works, it's beautiful marvel of modern engineering and manufacturing. But increasing current 10 fold and pincount 5 fold at the same time is a bit much for random cheap v

      • Re:The controversial Detect Offbrand Cable feature (Score:5, Informative)

        by omnichad ( 1198475 ) on Monday June 11, 2018 @03:26PM (#56767112) Homepage

        It's not as bad as all that, just go on Amazon and search for a review by Benson Leung [gizmodo.com]. A Google engineer who has gone all over buying crappy cables and testing whether they meet the specs and are wired correctly.

    • >>burning your device to a crisp
      That's patented By Samsung!

  • Dumb Idea Gen-C (Score:3)

    by Marlin Schwanke ( 3574769 ) on Monday June 11, 2018 @02:27PM (#56766668)
    I still don't like the fragile tongue inside a USB socket. Why have a relatively easy to break connector on a hard to repair $500 device. Apple got it right. The lightning connector socket on iDevices is a simple hole and is relatively indestructible.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Ichijo ( 607641 )

      I agree that Apple's connector is better, but how do you accidentally break the tongue deep inside a USB-C socket?

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by swb ( 14022 )

      I wouldn't be too smug, my iPhone 6+ had some troubles with its lightning socket after a couple of years. I got temporary relief by detail-cleaning the socket, but the problems always came back.

      I'm kind of glad for wireless charging, I can at least lose a couple of insertion cycles a day by charging on a pad vs. a cable.

      I think the general design of the lightning socket/cable is better due to the lack of a tongue in the socket, but in theory isn't the tongue somewhat safe from breakage because of the unifo

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Junta ( 36770 )

      That does puzzle me, common sense says to make the thing likely to break the cable, not the device.

      Of course, as the device size increases and companies want to surface mount these connectors, it's a lot of potential torque on the socket itself, so even without the tongue there is still peril.

      • The tab isn't much of a concern when the metal shell around it is subjected to all the flexural stress of the cable. The center tab may be delicate, but it will really never get leverage against it, because the outside shell of the female socket carries all the cable stress and strain. Additionally this keeps the springs of the connection on the plug on the cable side, which WILL degrade over time, and thus are the more delicate portion of the connection. They are expected to fail before the socket on th

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Hadlock ( 143607 )

      I have been using USB-C since the end of 2016 on my cell phone, USB-C on chromebook since mid 2017, and USB-C on Mac since late 2017, no issues whatsoever. The apple and google branded USB-C chargers work great charging all my devices. Mostly I just use the apple charger for everything since it will top off my phone in half an hour or so and then plug back in my laptop.

      I've had zero durability issues thus far in something like 2 years. I also like that I can at a minimum trickle charge my laptop usi

  • Really bad design (Score:3)

    by gweihir ( 88907 ) on Monday June 11, 2018 @02:30PM (#56766696)

    This is almost a textbook example for the "Second System Effect" (Brooks). They put in everything and the kitchen sink. That is about the worst fail in engineering that you can have and still (seemingly) have a specification that looks like it may be possible to implement. Whoever designed this completely forgot that KISS is the prime directive for any form of engineering that needs to work.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by Ksevio ( 865461 )
      But imagine once the kinks are worked out- It'll be super simple for consumers with one port and one cable to connect anything

      • If you put the kinks out of the pipes of the kitchen sink, it will become very smelly.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by gweihir ( 88907 )

        Nice fantasy, very unlikely to be coming true in reality. If they are smart, they make a small, strictly limited subset of the features of this monster, and _that_ we may eventually see working well.

    • That is about the worst fail in engineering that you can have and still (seemingly) have a specification that looks like it may be possible to implement. .

      You're getting a bit carried away here. I have a USB-C laptop and phone and a small travel charger that charges both. I travel a lot, so it's fantastic finally having one charger for everything. The only issue I've had is trying to skimp on cheap cables, but this rule applies to pretty much everything.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by gweihir ( 88907 )

        You are talking about a small subset of the specified functionality. There is nothing wrong with that as long as it is carefully chosen. Does not make the standard any less of a mess, though.

    • Not at all. You don't need KISS in a specification for it to work perfectly. You also don't need it to be free of the kitchen sink.

      What you do need for a device that is supposed to be universal is a specification that doesn't allow you to optionally implement only part of it, or a specification that doesn't make compatibility with its sub components not clear.

      USB C's specification problems are not that everything and the kitchen sink is included, it's that everything and the kitchen sink is OPTIONAL. I can'

  • Apple is laughing behind a mountain of $29 lightning cables as the pundit world wanted them to move to USB-C.

  • Licensing cost? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by whoever57 ( 658626 ) on Monday June 11, 2018 @02:33PM (#56766722) Journal

    Is this whole mess ultimately due to companies trying to charge too much for licenses to their proprietary charging technology?

    • Re:Licensing cost? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 ) on Tuesday June 12, 2018 @04:50AM (#56770528) Homepage Journal

      No, it's due to the way USB 3 delivers up to 100W and cheap cable manufacturers not properly testing that.

      With USB 3 the device can negotiate for high power delivery, which involves increasing the supplied voltage from 5V up to 20V. Due to physics increasing the voltage reduces the current needed to deliver 100W, which in turn reduces the amount of heat generated in the cable. Heat is wasted energy.

      The problem is that the cheap cables don't implement the spec properly and are not rated for 20V/5A, so can end up supplying 20V on the wrong pins and damaging equipment. The equipment needed to properly test USB 3 power delivery costs thousands of Euro/USD, so some companies just skipped it.

  • Tesla, on the other hand .... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by 140Mandak262Jamuna ( 970587 ) on Monday June 11, 2018 @02:34PM (#56766736) Journal
    "Even the seemingly most basic function of USB Type-C -- powering devices -- has become a mess "

    Just last week I plugged a model 3 Tesla into a supercharger. It soaked up electrons at the rate of 120 kW. 300 Amp at 480 v or something insane. And while Tessie is drinking 11 kW in the garage 48 Amp at 240 v, to store enough energy to run the whole house for three days, the cell phone struggles to store 2300 mAh in one hour, enough to run one dinky little phone for 18 hours.....

    What a mess...

    • Then it would seem that the solution to your problem would be to rig up a supercharger-to-USB3 adapter plug.

      By my math, it looks like you could charge your phone in three seconds.

      • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

        by Anonymous Coward

        Then it would seem that the solution to your problem would be to rig up a supercharger-to-USB3 adapter plug.
        By my math, it looks like you could charge your phone in three seconds.

        I think you may have meant "charred" instead of "charged" :P

  • After learning the mistake of buying really cheap USB-C cables, does anyone still have a problem with them? I'm surprised.

    • I skimmed the article and I don't see big problems. Basically he says: you can't always fast-charge your phone on any adapter.

      I don't really see the problem with that. It may not be what the author expected, though. It's quite simple; these USB-C chargers provide two or three volt/ampere combo's. But if your phone just happens to like a combo that's in between the offers, then it'll pick the lower one.

      If you happen to know this, then you can simply look on the charger itself. It'll say for example something

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by stooo ( 2202012 )

      >> does anyone still have a problem with them?
      Yes.
      Some devices are thunderbolt compatible
      Some cables are thunderbolt compatible
      All those do not fall back to USB when the other end does not talk thunderbolt.
      So in the end, it works only 50% of the time.

      • Yes.
        Some devices are thunderbolt compatible
        Some cables are thunderbolt compatible
        All those do not fall back to USB when the other end does not talk thunderbolt.
        So in the end, it works only 50% of the time.

        So, it sounds like you're saying the problem is Thunderbolt, not USB-C.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by stooo ( 2202012 )

          Two incompatible standards but with the exact same connector.
          Yeah, not a good idea.
          Both are to blame for the mess.

  • The 100W limit is the big problem we still see (Score:4, Informative)

    by greenwow ( 3635575 ) on Monday June 11, 2018 @02:52PM (#56766856)

    It sucks to plug your laptop in to your $250+ USB-C docking station then have the battery die before the end of the day since most high-end laptops need more power than that.

    • It sucks to plug your laptop in to your $250+ USB-C docking station then have the battery die before the end of the day since most high-end laptops need more power than that.

      What are you doing that uses 100W constantly all day? I have a 45W charger and 30W mini slower travel charger that both work fine. Granted I'm not bitcoin mining or playing CSGO all day, but I think you may be an extreme edge case. My Dell XPS has a regular charger as well as USB-C so even your use case is covered.

  • Hearkens back to USB high speed vs USB full speed (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Solandri ( 704621 ) on Monday June 11, 2018 @03:04PM (#56766940)
    The standard was set by the same morons who brought you "USB high speed" vs "USB full speed". To this day, I still don't know off the top of my head which one is USB 1.1 and which USB 2.0. I always have to google it.

    In addition to all the madness with charging, they also screwed up the USB 3.x nomenclature. We had a golden opportunity here to leave USB 3.0 referring to USB-A ports (add an extra revision for higher speeds), and have USB 3.1 ref to USB-C ports. That way if you saw USB 3.0 in the specs, you'd know it was a type A port. If you saw USB 3.1 in the specs, you'd know it was a type -C.

    Instead they decided to rename USB 3.0 as USB 3.1. So if you see just "USB 3.1" it's referring to a older USB-A style port. If you see "USB 3.1 type C" it's referring to a USB-C port. Unless of course the manufacturer decides to omit "type C" and just call it USB 3.1 in the specs which it's actually a USB-C port. I've had to resort to looking up laptop reviews and viewing pictures of the ports on the sides to confirm exactly what ports it has and doesn't have.

    It's like they intentionally trying to make it more confusing.

  • where is the problem? (Score:3)

    by ooloorie ( 4394035 ) on Monday June 11, 2018 @03:04PM (#56766942)

    It looks like everything performs and interoperates according to spec. It seems like a bonus that when you buy premium hardware with proprietary features, it performs even better.

  • I hadn't noticed. Seems useful. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by galabar ( 518411 ) on Monday June 11, 2018 @04:03PM (#56767374)
    I admit to not looking at these things closely. However, all of my devices now have USB-C and I find it very convenient. I haven't noticed any charging time issues, but I haven't really been paying attention. Maybe for the casual user (most of us), USB-C has worked pretty well?

  • Is this a null-modem cable?
    Is this a cross-over cable?
    Is this a TTL device?
    Is this 5V, 3.3V, 1.8V, 9V, -11 V?

    Except now:

    Is this a charge cable or a data cable?
    Can it support USB 3.1?
    Can this port support Thunderbolt? WTF Apple.. how did this end up as part of USB3.. and why don't all your ports support it?
    Is this a hub or a power passthrough adapter?
    Can I buy a hub?
    Can I buy a hub for less than $200?
    How do I search for a fucking hub?

    • The whole "charge cable or data cable" is a mess created by poor quality manufacturers.
      They wanted to get in on the high markup market of "premium cables" but couldn't build a cable that meets the USB specs and hence is unable to reliably transfer data. So they just brand it as a "super mega ultra fast powerful charge only cable".

      USB 3.1 is backwards compatible with 3.0. No need to worry about it, if both devices can do 10Gbps, great. If one can't, why are you complaining that you can't magically upgrade a

  • No shit.
    Replacing a quality cable with a long, shitty one full of thin aluminium or steel cored cable is going to reduce the charging speed of anything.
    Devices only draw current until the voltage at the device drops to a predetermined level. The more voltage drop on your cheap ebay cable, the lower the current that will be used to charge the battery.

    Same with crappy connectors with inadequate gold plating. Once the gold layer wears off, it will corrode. You'd best hope it doesn't do so while plugged in your

  • Situation: There are 14 competing USB standards.
    -Ridiculous! We need to develope one "Universal USB" standard that covers everyone's use cases.
    -Yeah!
    (Soon:) Situation: There are 15 competing USB standards.

    (I thought USB was ridiculously non-universal [iki.fi] back when 3.0 had been released. I don't even have any devices for type C.)

  • Paid lots of money for my charger - which is why I have only one :( Unlike old USB where I had cables in every room!

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