New Data On H-1B Visas Prove That IT Outsourcers Hire a Lot But Pay Very Little (qz.com) 233
New submitter FerociousFerret shares a report from Quartz: Hard numbers have been released by the U.S. government agency that screens visas for high-skilled foreign workers, and they are not pretty. Data made available by the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) for the first time show that the widely made complaint about the visa program is true: a small number of IT outsourcing companies get a disproportionately high number of H-1B visas and pay below-average wages to their workers. The new data also gives a more accurate picture of salaries of H-1B workers by employer. The top IT outsourcing companies on average paid much lower salaries to their workers. The wage divide is largely a result of different education requirements of H-1B positions. H-1B visas are issued to workers with specialized skills which generally requires a Bachelor's degree or higher. More than 98% of approved H-1B visa positions were awarded to workers with either a Bachelor's or a Master's degree in fiscal year 2016. A closer look at the educations held by H-1B workers at companies like Google, Amazon and Intel -- places with in-house tech staffs -- show that more than 60% had Masters degrees. For most IT outsourcing companies, the majority of H-1B visa holders only had a Bachelor's.
"...they are not pretty." (Score:4, Insightful)
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Since when are IT employees hired for their looks?
Let me guess, all that practise reading the various Cisco switch manuals in German front-to-back came in handy at your job interview.
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I read the German manual cover to cover, but I still can't find the IOS command to gas the Jews.
You should have studied the IBM documentation, rather than Cisco.
Re:"...they are not pretty." (Score:4, Funny)
Since when are IT employees hired for their looks?
Since, well, this prospect looks like he'll work more hours for less pay... beauty.
Re:"...they are not pretty." (Score:4)
Since IT employees are not hired for their looks, why do IT employers insist upon Skype interviews?
I can't speak for others, but I insist on video screening interviews so I can ask the applicants questions without them looking up answers in a search engine.
Re: "...they are not pretty." (Score:4, Insightful)
Depends what they're looking up. Sometimes knowing how to find an answer efficiently is more important than memorizing random tech trivia.
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Sometimes knowing how to find an answer efficiently is more important than memorizing random tech trivia.
Actual knowledge is usually required to understand something. If you look something up, it doesn't mean you understand it, including understanding why or why not..
I generally want to hire people who can not only answer and address problems by copy and paste, but will ask why more often than how, because they are subject matter experts with actual understanding.
How to use locks or threads is child's play. Understanding when and when not, and being able to troubleshoot them in a non-standard environment req
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It lets the interviewer know who they are talking to. I've heard stories of Skype interviews where a different H1B Indian guy shows up after getting hired.
what about looking up commands or the exact name? (Score:2)
what about looking up commands for cmd / cli stuff?
the exact name of some tech?
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what about looking up commands for cmd / cli stuff?
It displays a lack of understanding. I don't want someone who needs to look up the man page for chown to figure out what the -h flag does. If he doesn't know it, it's fairly implausible that he has an inherent understanding of symlinks and challenges they may pose. I want someone who can look at a script or a program and see problems with it, not someone who can paint by number.
the exact name of some tech?
Ask the interviewer. An ability to ask meaningful questions scores a plus.
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There is a big difference between looking up what something does and looking up what the damned switch is to get it do do something you want it to do.
Same with most other languages and utilities. Expecting people to keep the syntax diagrams and all the options in the heads is ridiculous. If they were at work and broke out the manual to look up function references, would that be acceptable?
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If they were at work and broke out the manual to look up function references, would that be acceptable?
That depends on how intrinsic it is to the work they are doing. Understanding based on wetware-retained knowledge means you're able to spot potential problems. Like when someone forgets that crucial dereferencing option.
And you won't spend 80 hours on a code review, looking up every little thing, while missing the big elephant because all you have is the ability to look up individual things, not the understanding of the big picture which can only be complete when you already know the parts.
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The hard part is to code so you do not have to use locks. Let that simmer for a while.
I'm not sure if time stamp based concurrency is inherently harder to implement than lock based. Both can be quite challenging.
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Since IT employees are not hired for their looks, why do IT employers insist upon Skype interviews?
I can't speak for others, but I insist on video screening interviews so I can ask the applicants questions without them looking up answers in a search engine.
What, you don't want you employees to use initiative?
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What, you don't want you employees to use initiative?
Sure, if they're open about it. "I don't know, but let me show you how quickly I can find out" is showing initiative.
Trying to pull wool over the interviewer's eyes is not showing initiative in a way that would be an asset to my company. Even minor attempts at deceit is an automatic "thanks for the interview; we will contact you if needed", and a note of "do not interview in the future", no matter how perfect other qualifications are.
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so I can ask the applicants questions without them looking up answers in a search engine.
If they want to cheat, they could have a hidden microphone with a friend listening in on the interview; Googling the questions, and displaying the answers on their computer monitor while they're skyping and appearing to just be watching the video chat.
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If they want to cheat, they could have a hidden microphone with a friend listening in on the interview; Googling the questions, and displaying the answers on their computer monitor while they're skyping and appearing to just be watching the video chat.
You can tell by people's eyes whether they're reading or not.
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If they want to cheat, they could have a hidden microphone with a friend listening in on the interview; Googling the questions, and displaying the answers on their computer monitor while they're skyping and appearing to just be watching the video chat.
You can tell by people's eyes whether they're reading or not.
I have this really neat old-skool tech that solves that problem. Earpiece.
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Video screening restricts half of the rural US.
Have you ever tried to stream video at 384kbit on DSL?
Some places have that as the only option.
If an applicant cannot perform a useful video interview, i would never hold that against him or her, and we would try to accommodate in other ways, including longer screening interviews until we think we know enough. But a video interview can cut down on time. But yes, I have experienced cases where a phone interview had so bad quality that I asked whether we could switch to phone. (One of them was in a job recruiter's office, none the less. They had permanent "bandwidth issues" despite a fast line.
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I imagine it's the same basic reason I'll have a few beers with my brother via video chat, but almost never talk to him on the phone - a great deal of information is conveyed via nonverbal communication.
And when you're trying to distinguish between potentially good employees, and good liars, every little bit helps.
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Why don't you just admit you want to judge the applicants on appearance and mannerism and sociability but you're too cheap to arrange face-to-face auditions.
What you really want are actors who will look right into the camera and lie to you convincingly.
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I imagine it's the same basic reason I'll have a few beers with my brother via video chat, but almost never talk to him on the phone - a great deal of information is conveyed via nonverbal communication.
And when you're trying to distinguish between potentially good employees, and good liars, every little bit helps.
Depends. Are you looking for someone in management or sales or marketing? Then you want both.
Seriously? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Seriously? (Score:4, Interesting)
Removes unions.
Staff have to work under threat of not been able to stay in the USA.
Low costs.
One person with needed legal standing in US can have a lot of new low cost workers working US services.
Re:Seriously? (Score:5, Informative)
As a former H1B holder who was paid far more than the equivalent homegrown employees, I can tell you that you missed the point of the article.
The point is that US companies that directly employ H1B holders pay more than the companies whose business is outsourcing.
Re:Seriously? (Score:5, Insightful)
While simultaneously replacing jobs that U.S. citizens might take.. after a computer-focused IT education provides them what they thought was the means to a career....
Yet you fail to understand the "argument" that the United States is failing to provide qualified tech workers... even with years of STEM programs.
So if they don't get the overworked-underpaid H1B temp employees they want and they for some reason can't find local talent... its time to ship jobs beyond our shores!
Wait.. do I hear an echo from Disney-world?
https://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/04/us/last-task-after-layoff-at-disney-train-foreign-replacements.html
California dreaming!
http://www.computerworld.com/article/3117602/it-outsourcing/university-of-california-to-send-some-it-jobs-to-india.html
This is corporate greed funded by legislation.. and nothing more.
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This is corporate greed funded by legislation.. and nothing more.
No, there are exceptions, where a person really is hired because there truly aren't anyone on the native market with the skill set. Those are few and far-between, but examples can include new technologies that haven't been introduced to the US before, so there is no local expertise, or old technologies where those who knew it are either already hired or dead. Try finding a competent Fortran programmer or certified horologist these days. Chances are you have to shop abroad.
Re: Seriously? (Score:2)
Or you could just find a competent programmer who's willing to learn Fortran. Seriously, people get way too hung up on language experience. I guess it's a way to pigeonhole people and keep pay rates low.
But seriously, any decent programmer can pick up a new language in a few weeks. And probably only half of the decent programmers have been pushed out of the industry So there's still a big pool of domestic labor to exploit.
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<br><br>
Your sense of self worth is a little inflated. If you can do it, at least 1% of the population of the planet is capable of it. You're nowhere near as special as you think.
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While simultaneously replacing jobs that U.S. citizens might take.. after a computer-focused IT education provides them what they thought was the means to a career....
Yet you fail to understand the "argument" that the United States is failing to provide qualified tech workers... even with years of STEM programs.
So if they don't get the overworked-underpaid H1B temp employees they want and they for some reason can't find local talent... its time to ship jobs beyond our shores!
Wait.. do I hear an echo from Disney-world?
https://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/04/us/last-task-after-layoff-at-disney-train-foreign-replacements.html
California dreaming!
http://www.computerworld.com/article/3117602/it-outsourcing/university-of-california-to-send-some-it-jobs-to-india.html
This is corporate greed funded by legislation.. and nothing more.
And you confirmed the GP point -- abuse of the program. Those companies that hire H1Bs in order to import them into this country are to be blamed (they keep 2 books similar to accounting). Those employers that outsource their work to a company which hires H1Bs are to be blamed. How hard is it to see that the program is not really the culprit, but companies that intend to cut their cost in order to make more profits are? Most of them [wikipedia.org] are Indian companies, but one Australian based company caught on the loopho
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Why shouldn't an employer hire someone cheaper? Isn't that the point of business? Raise profits and cut expenses is what creates jobs and an economy.
Who is the real greedy one?
make the H1B min wage 80-150K+ based on COL (Score:2)
make the H1B min wage 80-150K+ based on COL.
In some areas 80K is good others it's not so much.
In the bay area they want 60K 50-60 hour a week workers and have a hard time finding USC at the rate so they have H1B's hired to be any where from code monkeys to higher level jobs.
In some cases they have ways to pay them less then the now 60K min.
I would not really want to take an job in bay area or NY NY for only 50K-60K
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We have a similar shitshow with the TFW program in Canada. I've always said the solution is to force TFW/H1B positions to be paid 150% of market rate for the job, and paid through the TFW/equivalent office, who then pays the worker. The excess would then be used to fund the program and pay for career training programs to address the lack of local talent for those jobs.
That way companies will look a little harder to see if there really is local talent before having to pony up 1.5 times the market rate for
Re:Seriously? (Score:5, Insightful)
Precisely.
H1-B visas should only be granted to companies that are hiring the holder directly - no contracting companies should be allowed to sponsor H1-B holders.
If the employer of the H1-B candidate had to treat them as an employee, we would see the higher wages. But since they are employed by contract houses, they get less money, the corporations get cheap foreign labor, and wages stay low.
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The eerie irony of this is that the companies using contractors are often paying a higher hourly rate than they would for a permanent employee at the same time as the contractor himself is paid less than the normal wage. I think what is needed is something like a minimum wage scheme, graded after the profession - something like the average pay for that category minus a small percentage. Yes, I do realise it would put many contracting agencies out of business - that is sort of the point.
Re:Seriously? (Score:4, Insightful)
It also allows you to essentially fix costs for a position if you're using H1B as temporary labor. New employees every 3 years means never needing to raise what that position costs you.
And as another poster pointed out above, these are rarely used to hire in workers of skill greater than they could find locally. I'm aware of a company that has staffed their QA department almost entirely through H1B, and their QA is not required to actually understand the product at all, just run specified test cases and report results. My dad is not a technical person and he could do their QA.
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My dad is not a technical person and he could do their QA.
Judging from a lot of the crap out there, that would probably be an improvement.
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It also allows you to essentially fix costs for a position if you're using H1B as temporary labor. New employees every 3 years means never needing to raise what that position costs you.
And as another poster pointed out above, these are rarely used to hire in workers of skill greater than they could find locally. I'm aware of a company that has staffed their QA department almost entirely through H1B, and their QA is not required to actually understand the product at all, just run specified test cases and report results. My dad is not a technical person and he could do their QA.
NO. Hiring new engineers for your product is super disruptive. It takes years for the new hire to learn the code, learn the company processes and get good at what they are doing. You want to retain as much as possible.
I don't know how you can staff your QA with H1Bs. First, DOL's salary requirements are high. Second, lawyer and USCIS fees are also very high. Third, their salary and job description must be posted on the company common room and if anyone can claim that they have the minimum requirements for
time to unlike healthcare from jobs like the rest (Score:2)
time to unlike healthcare from jobs like the rest of the world
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time to unlike healthcare from jobs like the rest of the world
I think you meant "unlink". It could happen, now that the government was unable to change anything so far. People want certainty. Especially with health care. The majority do NOT trust the government any more with respect to health care - which is why this has a chance to catch on finally [theguardian.com]
Bernie Sanders pushes universal health plan in wake of Republican repeal failure
Bernie Sanders has spent the first months of the new Congress defending Barack Obama’s health reforms as Republicans vowed to repeal them. But after the GOP’s seven-year drive to eliminate the Affordable Care Act collapsed on the Senate floor last week, Sanders is ready to introduce his own solution - government-run universal healthcare for all Americans.
The Vermont senator will spend the next several weeks leading a campaign to build support for his plan before unveiling the bill next month. On Wednesday, he launched a six-figure digital advertising campaign on Facebook and Google that encourages supporters to become "citizen co-sponsors" of his plan, which he calls "Medicare for All", according to Sanders spokesman Josh Miller-Lewis, a reference to the public healthcare program for older Americans.
"Bottom line is: if other countries around the world are providing quality care to all their people, we can do the same," Sanders told NPR in an interview on Tuesday.
Surveys show people want this. And with the total failure of the current regime to get anything done, it will be a delicious irony if Trump's stupidity ultimately results in the US bringing health care supply into the seco
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The point is that US companies that directly employ H1B holders pay more than the companies whose business is outsourcing.
Wow, what an insightful comment. This is like seriously posing a question such as: Which of the two turds is better?
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"Top 10 H-1B employers are all IT offshore outsourcing firms, costing U.S. workers tens of thousands of jobs " http://www.epi.org/blog/top-10... [epi.org]
You might want to read the article.
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It is when Tech Companies go before Congress claiming they need more H-1B visas and claim H-1B visas don't cost jobs and don't depress wages. Having facts to refute those arguments is handy.
Congress has never let facts get in the way of listening to lobbyists. When it comes to special interests vs. the good of the public, they know which side their bread is buttered on. Otherwise, everyone would be covered by Medicare already.
I'm Shocked, Shocked I say... (Score:5, Interesting)
That corporations would do the most economically sensible thing, given the conditions at hand.
In other words: Duh. Now that we have the evidence, can we PLEASE do something about this?
I have serious problems with a visa that's designed for the worker to have to go home again later (I know that a fair number of H1B holders do convert to green card holders, but that's deliberately NOT the point of an H1B).
H1B should be a fairly rare thing - if the US is so short of workers that you have to go oversees, then we should be giving out green cards and encouraging citizenship, not paying crap wages, depressing pay scales for US workers, and then sending them home.
Take the number of H1B visas issued, and put that number into the green card program instead. I want people who are going to stay and be my neighbor, not temps from oversees!
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Wrong. H1B visas are "dual-intent" -- this means that it is expected that the holder will apply for a green card.
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No, we can't (Score:3, Interesting)
Re: No, we can't (Score:2, Interesting)
As real average wages (adjusted for cost of living) continue to drop, and the last of the independent consultants are starved out, maybe we programmers can finally grow up, stop acting like man-children, and show some solidarity.
Or maybe we'll become like immediate post-USSR Russia. A huge pool of highly skilled programmers, with near zero job prospects. Nany of whom will turn to illicit activity.
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Ok. Name one politician to vote for who cares? Trump and Hillary are both pro h1b1 visa.
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You are wrong in at least one case: mine. I pretty much have one issue I vote on and it's H1B visas. ...as far as I'm concerned Trump can abort every LGBTQ with an AR-15 assault rifle, nuke the whales, pave the planet with CO2 belching tractors, put on clown makup to gargle Putin's balls, and build a 100 foot wall of undulating penises waving at Mexico.
Clown makeup? Now you've gone too far!
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In addition, divide the number of green cards by 10, and use that.
The reason is that majority of H1B is being used to replace Americans, not supplement us, AND, Green Cards will stay while about 50% of H1Bs convert.
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The problem remains that most applications, regardless of how you order them are held by a small set of companies and these companies aren't going to be bidding against themselves.
Best thing to do is have an open job search market system where you only accept applications from individuals which have at least an accredited Masters degree and above and you have to pay at least 125% of the average wages for that position.
The real money (Score:4, Informative)
The IT outsourcing companies make a ton of other money in the process.
From a percentage of the pay their H-1B contracts receive, to the flop houses they store their programmers in while they're not at work, it's all pure profit.
Comment removed (Score:5, Informative)
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Has Trump done something about it yet?
Other than Boost the Number of Visas for Low skilled workers?
Trump Lies Better than Hillary?
Re:2.6 million H-1Bs over a decade (Score:5, Insightful)
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Also, if you like fires, he's started them. Which means new home construction will be up.
Neither of those had any practical effect (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:2.6 million H-1Bs over a decade (Score:4, Interesting)
Yes, I am a Brit trying to get into the US on the H1B program because my girlfriend is there. It is now significantly harder to get companies to even talk to me since they defunded priority applications. My best shot is to apply in April, for a visa that *may* start in October. My chances of getting it are very slim though.
Note that I'm in software, in London, earn a very good salary and have 20 years of experience - I'm a model candidate - and I've been told by some people over there that I may as well not bother and to "explore other options"...
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Note that I'm in software, in London, earn a very good salary and have 20 years of experience - I'm a model candidate - and I've been told by some people over there that I may as well not bother and to "explore other options"...
You are the perfect candidate for what the H1-B program "should" be for. The H1-B program has been twisted to lower the average wages of all employees, in which case, you are ideally the WRONG candidate.
I wonder what they are doing with all of that extra money they are "saving"? Surely there are only so many castles and personal servants a person could own. I do not see the money going into new and innovative businesses nor improving infrastructure, nor, most importantly, increasing our understanding and ab
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Yes, I am a Brit trying to get into the US on the H1B program because my girlfriend is there. It is now significantly harder to get companies to even talk to me since they defunded priority applications. My best shot is to apply in April, for a visa that *may* start in October. My chances of getting it are very slim though. Note that I'm in software, in London, earn a very good salary and have 20 years of experience - I'm a model candidate - and I've been told by some people over there that I may as well not bother and to "explore other options"...
Absolute hogwash.
Priority processing has nothing to do with this. Even with priority processing, you still apply in April and come in October. It's just that you'll know in June instead of July if you're coming or not.
If you have a company that is genuinely interested in you then it is possible to do EB2 green card. It takes about 6 months before you can get your work permit and green card about 5-8 months afterwards. It is more complicated and more burden on the employer to file 4 stages of paperwork t
Labour Protectionism is not the answer (Score:2)
Protectionism that blocks foreign skilled talent will only hurt American businesses which will have a further knock on when it comes to secondary employment, taxation etc. If the foreign worker is in demand and ye
Re: Labour Protectionism is not the answer (Score:2)
I'm solidly a free trader...but your working from a bad premise. I'm a consultant that works with companies of all types, including the big tech companies, and my experience is that overall fewer than 2 in 10 H1b workers are "highly skilled". It's really unbelievable how bad the situation is.
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and how many of those degrees are from degree mills over there?
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Hillary Clinton lost because voters had a choice between a Republican running as a Democrat and a Democrat running as a Republican....
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Whyever Hillary lost, the DNC lost because it chose to run Clinton over Sanders. The polls outright said that Sanders could beat Trump and Clinton couldn't, the voters said they wanted to vote for Sanders, the DNC said fuck you, and reality said fuck the DNC.
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Since you know why because you are not intellectually lazy and have read all those excellent books, it would be very easy for you to provide us with the "real reason" why Hillary Clinton lost. Since you didn't post the reason, it's obvious you don't have an answer. Troll somewhere else.
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That's one perspective. Another is that she ran the most incompetent and negative campaign in modern history. It has been demonstrated that she completely failed to lay out a plan for why anyone would vote for her, other than that she wasn't Trump, and she spent most of her advertising money in places that she had already locked down instead of places where the outcomes were less sure.
But, you can go ahead and blame it on the deluded white racists clinging to their God and guns if you want.
I'm confused (Score:2)
Why is it not a requirement to pay above average wages for H1-B holders? The only reason they have the visa is because there is no local worker with the required skill, right?
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Our gov under W and then O, and now Trump, have not enforced it.
stop h1B, and issue more visas based on job (Score:2)
Also, the hire should be required to ONLY work INSIDE of that company. IOW, they can not be contracted out.
Finally, the green card holder should not be allowed to contract for the first 5 years that they are here.
You got to look at the reasons behind outsourcing (Score:2)
Here in Sweden, we have had an outsourcing problem for many years too, this isn't unique to the U.S. in any way, shape or form - it's just got more attention because "USA".
People want a big salary, they've become accustomed to high salaries and do not want to change their lifestyle. What about electronics? We're living in times were you can purchase a huge 50 inch flat screen TV for 300 bucks or less, electronics gadgets are almost ludicrously cheap - and salaries at an all time high. Our standard of living
Re: You got to look at the reasons behind outsourc (Score:3, Insightful)
If you were earning $500/mo in the States, you would NOT have a house of your own and plenty of food. You would be living in a cardboard box under a bridge and eating out of dumpsters. Get real, broham.
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>>If you were earning $500/mo in the States, you would NOT have a house of your own and plenty of food. You would be living in a cardboard box under a bridge and eating out of dumpsters. Get real, broham.
That's an uneducated utterance, simply because you cannot dictate how I live, nor can you know it, all you can do is assume that what I inform you of is either untrue or true.
Here's an example. (the very truth, in my case): I own the house, my property taxes are roughly 300$ a year, thats less than 30
Easy to eliminate H1B abuse (Score:3)
Don't tie the visa to a specific company. Make it easy for the workers to switch jobs. H1B workers are damn near indentured servants because it's so damn hard to switch jobs. The result is they have to put up with crap that a regular worker wouldn't tolerate, e.g. longer hours (at a fixed salary), no bonuses, shorter or no vacations, etc. It's not just about the salary. It's the ability to completely control the workers.
Re:Easy to eliminate H1B abuse (Score:4, Interesting)
The H1B tech worker program should be changed into a temporary work permit given to the employee (not the employer) while the green card application is underway. The green card application once started should have the ability to "transfer sponsors". H1B visas should require a minimum salary at or above the prevailing wage. Data on salaries of local hires and H1Bs should be reported annually, and if a company is abusing the visa then they should be banned from sponsoring them for a period of 5 years.
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There are two issues with the process. The H1B is the only visa that allows for dual purpose/intent - temporary worker while allowing for the person to have the intent to work permanently in the United States. It is often used while a company is sponsoring the individual for a green card. H1B is a maximum of 2 3yr visas, and sponsoring for a green card typically takes almost 6 years to process. During this time a worker cannot change employers or they have to start over on the green card application -- basically turning them into indentured servants with little or no ability to negotiate on pay. The H1B tech worker program should be changed into a temporary work permit given to the employee (not the employer) while the green card application is underway. The green card application once started should have the ability to "transfer sponsors". H1B visas should require a minimum salary at or above the prevailing wage. Data on salaries of local hires and H1Bs should be reported annually, and if a company is abusing the visa then they should be banned from sponsoring them for a period of 5 years.
There are already stuff like this.
Main problem is that most H1Bs are from India and because of the diversity quotas (one country cannot send more than 10% of the total immigrants per year), the backlog is decades long.
However, a lot of stuff like 140 and priority dates are transferable.
However, the whole green card process was never indented to be a 2 year process. It was 3-4 months process and stuff that made sense for a 3-4 month process doesn't make sense for 2 year process. For example, considerin
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Don't tie the visa to a specific company. Make it easy for the workers to switch jobs. H1B workers are damn near indentured servants because it's so damn hard to switch jobs. The result is they have to put up with crap that a regular worker wouldn't tolerate, e.g. longer hours (at a fixed salary), no bonuses, shorter or no vacations, etc. It's not just about the salary. It's the ability to completely control the workers.
This was fixed 15-20 years ago.
H1Bs can easily switch jobs. It does cost the company legal fees and USCIS fees (around $4000 or so) but it is pretty straightforward to switch.
The failing argument for a degree (Score:2)
Does a CCIE require a Masters degree?
Can I sit for the MCSE exam with a high-school diploma?
Does Oracle require a Bachelors degree to become a DBA?
We need to drop this bullshit argument within the IT sector. 98% of the time, you're paying for the specialized skills.A perfect example of this is the utter lack of a degree requirement when hiring a technical consultant or contractor. Not everyone in IT is going to become a CxO, and most don't want to. Obtaining and keeping specialized skills honed is far mo
that work needs to be an trade not 4+ years of CS (Score:2)
that work needs to be an trade not 4+ years of CS that is a poor fit for MCSE / CCIE / IT / help desk work.
Isn't this the whole point? (Score:2)
If they had to pay the going rate they wouldn't bother in the first place.
Market Value 101 !! (Score:4, Interesting)
My father always told me "don't get good at something you don't like to do" --- years later I'd learn that it was true, and B) don't ever get good at something that isn't valued (or can be automated).
The low wages for these IT jobs is simply the Value That Companies Put on the Work. They need a semi-skilled laborer to write 'em some dumb code. Or push buttons for a manual testing effort. The cost of "now" vs "automate it" -- usually "now" wins. Regardless of how bad you may feel about somebody doing the same job for less -- realize this -- it's all the employer is willing to pay to get the job done.
Don't get good at those jobs.
Congress will simply use this data to extort (Score:2)
I'll just drop this here (Score:2)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpg5CnagE9k [youtube.com]
Duh... (Score:2)
There's a Fix (Score:5, Insightful)
1. Naively capping H-1Bs at 1,000 per organization would only result in more organizations. The outsourcers would simply lean on shell companies. Depending on the elasticities, workers would get paid even less in order to fund the extra overhead. That won't work.
2. There is an easy fix, actually: set minimum H-1B salaries to $10,000 per month (2017 dollars, inflation indexed) nationwide, up to $2,000/month more (2017 dollars) in high cost of living areas (e.g. Silicon Valley), plus require that the employer post a 12 month bond. That'll have zero impact on Apple and several other legitimate H-1B employers. Closely monitor compliance (e.g. compare to tax records), deport any employee paying kickbacks, throw anybody accepting kickbacks in prison, and keep the bond if there are any rule violations.
3. A variation on #2 is to hold monthly or quarterly H-1B auctions. The bid price is the employee's salary, and the highest salaries win, subject to a $10,000/month (2017 dollars) floor.
Options #2 and #3 would help boost government revenues since high salaries (for both the H-1Bs and resident workers) mean higher tax payments.
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On #2, I'd say only deport them if they refuse to testify against whoever they paid the kickbacks to. And if that person is convicted, give the H1B holder a green card.
"You need to give me 10% of your paycheck."
"Oh, thank you sir, I'll be a US citizen before you get out of prison."
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That's why courts allow both sides to present their case, and juries to judge the credibility of witnesses and evidence.
The second time that happens, the employer will have a recording of every interaction with every employee.
But, hey, at least the employee won't get deported until they finish their sentence for perjury.
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An even easier solution would be to simply say that only 5% (or some other reasonable amount) of your workforce can be H-1Bs. That would effectively eliminate the consultant sweatshops, and at the same time it wouldn't matter if you sub-divide your org into many to try to get around it, a percentage is a percentage. Want to hire more H-1B's, well better find more domestic help then also to a larger degree. Need more than the allowed percentage? Then perhaps you shouldn't be running your business, or at leas
Re: (Score:2)
1. Naively capping H-1Bs at 1,000 per organization would only result in more organizations. The outsourcers would simply lean on shell companies. Depending on the elasticities, workers would get paid even less in order to fund the extra overhead. That won't work.
2. There is an easy fix, actually: set minimum H-1B salaries to $10,000 per month (2017 dollars, inflation indexed) nationwide, up to $2,000/month more (2017 dollars) in high cost of living areas (e.g. Silicon Valley), plus require that the employer post a 12 month bond. That'll have zero impact on Apple and several other legitimate H-1B employers. Closely monitor compliance (e.g. compare to tax records), deport any employee paying kickbacks, throw anybody accepting kickbacks in prison, and keep the bond if there are any rule violations.
3. A variation on #2 is to hold monthly or quarterly H-1B auctions. The bid price is the employee's salary, and the highest salaries win, subject to a $10,000/month (2017 dollars) floor.
Options #2 and #3 would help boost government revenues since high salaries (for both the H-1Bs and resident workers) mean higher tax payments.
This will let the rich buy H1B visas.
Make a shell company, and hire yourself.
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As the summary states, previous administrations simply didn't allow them to collect the data.
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But you have to pay someone to clean up the shit in the parking lot.
Or just stop hiring people who shit in the parking lot in the first place. Or you can pay them to crap in toilets [bbc.com].
Re: (Score:2)
Immigration based on "Economic Security" points?
This is "Fairness"?
in a pigs (Trump's) Eye!!!