More Than Ever, Employees Want a Say in How Their Companies Are Run (qz.com) 231
Two readers share a report: While workers have traditionally looked to unions to address their grievances, a new generation is trusting in the power of petitions to force changes. At the Wall Street Journal, 160 reporters and editors, delivered a letter to their managers protesting the lack of women and minorities running the organization, Business Insider reported yesterday. "Nearly all the people at high levels at the paper deciding what we cover and how are white men," the letter read. IBM employees are circulating an online petition objecting to the tone of CEO Ginni Rometty's letter to US president Donald Trump, and calling on her affirm what they call the company's progressive values. [...] Other employee petitions call for Oracle to oppose US president Donald Trump's second travel ban, and to let men who work at US regional supermarket Publix grow beards. Employee petitions are now so popular there's a website, coworker.org, devoted to hosting them. In some cases, the campaigns work: Starbuck's relaxed its rules about visible tattoos and unnatural hair color for baristas after thousands signed petitions asking for a change. Sometimes, they fail disastrously. Interns at one (unnamed) company described in a blog about being fired en masse after signing a petition asking for a more relaxed dress code.
this is really getting tiring (Score:5, Insightful)
the best person for the job regardless of race or gender is how it should be, nothing else.
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But making false numbers games are how SJW's survive.
As a business owner I would have a huge pushback on the force change bit if stuff this simple requires a petition your management is probably already dysfunctional.
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I was a suit at Mobil Oil during its Dilbert years, and it was called, "empowerment."
It died along with "Quality, Vision and Mission" statements.
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there are zero barriers for entry in the workforce today
Just try to apply to my job without a masters or PhD in a relevant field. At best you will never hear from anyone again. At worst they'll bring you in for sport, and some of these people are just enough assholes to do it, if HR didn't get in the way.
There are lots of barriers. The mistake is thinking management cares about what people think. Instead they should buy a share, group up, then start forcing votes at the shareholder level.
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How about managements spawn. That will get you more places than anything else will. Hell, they will hire two at a time to fill those jobs, one the spawn gets paid to do nothing much what so ever and their 'assistant' that does the actual job and gets paid bugger all, only to be fired when they are blamed for the spawns fuck up.
Petitions are as stupid as fuck, seriously, sign those and you screw over your career. To do that stuff you absolutely require the protection of Unions. Unhappy with company policie
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Err....being qualified for a job is not considered part of overcoming a barrier to a job. Being qualified for a job is a GIVEN to even be considered for a job, geez.....please have some common sense.
Barriers as discussed above are artificial things keeping folks out that are all qualified for the same job or activity.
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Barriers to entry are almost always used in the same breath as "requires high investment factor". Masters and PhD (or even B.S.) degrees all require a very significant investment. These degrees represent dubious qualifications. They are academic certifications, which may or may not have applicability in the corporate world. I'm not sure how many of my professors could hack it outside of academia, but not so many.
And I disagree, very often those things are requirements that are not actual qualifications, jus
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Bullshit. You can just declare yourself as identifying as a black lesbian. In truth, minorities have an easier time acquiring funding than white candidates do.
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I'm not sure how many of my professors could hack it outside of academia, but not so many
The life of young academics is completely brutal. I used to be one. I left, bought a house and started a startup. Both of those are considered rather stressful. I did both at the same time and frankly it was a holiday compared to my academic staff job (assistant prof equivalent).
In my field, there's a lot of cross overbetween academia and industry, and the academic jobs are much more work, much more stress and
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That's a prerequisite not a barrier. You're conflating the meaning in use.
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The problem is folks get outcomes confused with opportunity. Just because a certain gender or color isn't present in representative numbers in upper management and certain jobs doesn't mean they didn't have the opportunity to pursue that job. Equal Opportunity does not equate to Equal Outcomes, essentially.
Amusingly, what these folks are advocating for is a lowering of the bar which only applies to certain genders or skin colors...which makes them, you guessed it, bigots.
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Because who gets promoted to management is entirely based on merit, right? If you actually believe that then your naivete is staggering.
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Because who gets promoted to management is entirely based on merit, right?
Sadly no. In my experience, who gets promoted to management has more to do with who you're friends with than actual ability.
Please note that gender and race were not mentioned *once* in the above.
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Because who gets promoted to management is entirely based on merit, right?
Sadly no. In my experience, who gets promoted to management has more to do with who you're friends with than actual ability.
Please note that gender and race were not mentioned *once* in the above.
But they're still there. What you've described constitutes deep and systematic racism and sexism that place serious obstacles in front of anyone who isn't the right race and gender. Just because no one is doing it "on purpose", that everyone has good intentions and thinks they're doing their best to be fair doesn't mean it isn't happening. It's the result of pervasive unconscious biases.
So, how do you overcome those unconscious biases, break the stranglehold of the good old boys' network on management po
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You start your own company. Nothin' stopping you.
Just sayin'.
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You start your own company. Nothin' stopping you.
Then [s]he could make sure to hire and promote the right genders and colors to ensure diversity.
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You start your own company. Nothin' stopping you.
Just sayin'.
So, your answer is to ignore it. I see.
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But they're still there. What you've described constitutes deep and systematic racism and sexism that place serious obstacles in front of anyone who isn't the right race and gender. Just because no one is doing it "on purpose", that everyone has good intentions and thinks they're doing their best to be fair doesn't mean it isn't happening. It's the result of pervasive unconscious biases.
Prove it. Prove that's what's happening. You are making an extraordinary claim, you must justify it.
You described it! If you still can't see it, I can't help you.
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No, all I said is it had more to do with who you're friends with.
Unless you're suggesting that you can only be friends with people of the same gender and color as yourself. That may apply to you, but some of us aren't so...uh..."discerning"...when it comes to who our friends are.
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I've been in the workforce long enough, including in interview panels, to know that raw merit is only half the game. Hiring and promotion decisions are largely social, especially when multiple candidates have similar merit credentials. Humans are social animals, and thus naturally biased.
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What exactly is "refuse to assimilate"? Not eating the same foods? Not having the same religion? Not listening to the same music?
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Let me take a wild stab here. You are an SJW, right? You're certainly racist and sexist enough.
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I'm guessing your last name isn't "Abdul" or "Hussein".
Illegal discrimination is alive and well.
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- Different people from different viewpoints are almost invariably GOOD for an organization. Those that don't have diversity tend to wither and die due to stagnation.
Proof?
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Diversity with a big 'd' is an employment plan for idiots who can't find real work and have to make their living as parasites and rabble rousers. Believing it is anything other than that is foolish. No one needs ethnic clubs at their workplace.
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"Different people from different viewpoints are almost invariably GOOD for an organization" is fundamentally hard to test.
It shouldn't be too hard, right? Especially now that companies are releasing diversity numbers. Get some diversity numbers for companies, figure out a way to measure their success, and slice the data different ways to see if you can find any correlation. Control for confounding factors. There are certainly difficulties, but this is basic data-science stuff, it's not fundamentally hard.
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Not so much this.
I remember Texaco refinery hiring black women (a definite "twofer") back in 1975 and giving them fast-track promotions to supervisors.
Texaco did this because federal contracts required it.
It did serve a purpose, though.
At first, white men were totally disgusted.
Then, the white men found something else to be totally disgusted about.
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I'm sure if we gave non whites enough other distractions "to be totally disgusted about", we could avoid having to respect their rights too. Doesn't make it right, however.
Re: this is really getting tiring (Score:3, Insightful)
It's not rightist and centrists who keep bringing traits like race, gender, sexual preference, and so on into every situation and discussion. They aren't constantly pushing identity politics. It's the leftists who are doing that.
Everybody but the leftists have moved on. The leftists draw their power from exploiting the differences between groups of people, however. So they need to continually foster disagreement and disruption. Leftists need this disunity in order for their failed belief systems to survive.
Re: this is really getting tiring (Score:4, Informative)
It's not rightist and centrists who keep bringing traits like race, gender, sexual preference, and so on into every situation and discussion. They aren't constantly pushing identity politics. It's the leftists who are doing that.
That's only because the rightwingers and other assorted bigots are perfectly OK with the status quo, where brown people, non-straight people, women and people with middle-eastern sounding names are routinely rejected for jobs at much higher rates than straight white males.
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- We have historical (and current) discrimination to overcome.
"historical" means approximately bupkis - no sane human is in the business of reparations, or of acting on induced guilt for things that they themselves have not done.
"(and current)"? Must not be all that prevalent if it's in parentheses, now is it?
- Different people from different viewpoints are almost invariably GOOD for an organization.
Almost, but...
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I"ve yet to see that ever.
I suppose if the business is catering to a specific market where no one is a part of or knows that market it could be detrimental (all white guys trying to see black women gerry curl, or whatever it is called).
On the other hand...throwing out or not hiring people due to their race and ONLY being interested in meeting quotas for diversity sake, I have seen tank a company's abilities.
I have no problem with
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I dont disagree that different people with different viewpoints are good, but the point remains that if they DONT have good points of view but are hired specifically to fill a quota, that is almost invariably BAD for the same company
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I absolutely refuse to pay for the sins of our fathers. This will only perpetuate an eternal victimhood. If you see wrong, fix it, but 'diversity' for its own sake is just racism.
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If they believed that were so, organizations which tout "diversity" wouldn't be so intolerant of diverse viewpoints (c.f. Mozilla, Grubhub)
Sure To Be Effective (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm convinced that these petitions will be at least as effective as the ones posted on whitehouse.gov. [whitehouse.gov]
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Eh, the real action is submitting comments at regulations.gov.
e.g. https://www.regulations.gov/do... [regulations.gov]
Simple solution (Score:3)
Just ask your union... Oh.
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Even better - go work for a (relatively more) sane company. Let the dysfunctional companies get stuck with dysfunctional employees. Eventually they (the companies) die.
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First, that would take actual hard work, and money.
Second, someone has already done the work for you, as they should, and started a company for you to have a say in.
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Do you realize what a crazy idea that is?
"Why climb the corporate ladder when you can own it?" — Rich Dad, Poor Dad
How cute (Score:3, Insightful)
The workers think they have an opinion that matters.
The current American culture gives absolutely no shits what workers think, only that they show up and do what it says on the tin.
You want to have an opinion? Fight for it. Walk out. Organize. Use the tools that are available to you, not spineless open letters that only provide the status quo with targets to aim at.
And, btw, when you have that opinion, don't give it up. Remind everybody that you fought hard for the right to have a voice, as opposed to workers in the 70s, 80s, and 90s that happily gave up their ability to affect change.
Interns != Employees (Score:4, Insightful)
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That intern was taught an invaluable business lesson.
Something something nail, hammer!
If you don't like the culture where you work, and your suggestion box entries seem to disappear into the ether, then get a different job, explaining why you chose to leave. If that doesn't change the culture, then chances are you weren't valuable enough for them to care about your petition anyway.
You could also try to work your way into management, such that you're entrusted with decisions that affect the area you want to change. But let's be honest--by that point you've p
Only if there was something (Score:3, Insightful)
say we used the word Union. It would be an organization of people from the same industry banded for the benefit of all workers. Maybe the workers could donate a little of their monthly income so the Union could hire lawyers and lobbying power. Its just an idea...
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...and in 20 years when management decides to offshore *all* of its tech work to India (due to bloated contracts with said unions, bloated wages, and a systme where the incompetent could never get fired, let alone done so in a timely manner), we can all sit back and say we at least tried, right?
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say we used the word Union. It would be an organization of people from the same industry banded for the benefit of all workers. Maybe the workers could donate a little of their monthly income so the Union could hire lawyers and lobbying power. Its just an idea...
These are not petitions for things unions care about, like benefits, pay, and work conditions. It is in a union's best interest to keep its members stably employed so that those union dues keep creeping higher. Diversifying the workforce has little to do with this.
Stock holding? (Score:3, Interesting)
Natural byproduct (Score:2)
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I've usually found that *most* companies hedge a lot on their culture propaganda, to the point it which it is usually meaningless drivel. The downside is that since it is content-free, nobody cares and they doesn't do anything for them or the peasants.
When they put too much meaning into the culture propaganda, people tend to believe it and expect follow-through, which they seldom get because it's propaganda. This results in a poisoning of the well and a further loss of credibility.
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Actually, a culture forms whether or not management fosters one. Oftentimes, a culture will form that is decidedly counter to what management wants to foster.
If management is a bunch of cut-throat snakes, the employees adapt and form their own counter-culture of sorts. The result only gets uglier over time, and management usually doesn't find out until the company is rapidly sinking (at which time many of them have either jumped ship or are about to).
Re: Natural byproduct (Score:2)
worker co-operatives (Score:3)
Are they vested in the company? (Score:2)
So (Score:2)
"Nearly all the people at high levels at the paper deciding what we cover and how are white men,"
Nearly all. So not, in fact, all. So how many non whites is "enough"? Does it matter who we replace, so long as we're just replacing a white guy? And isn't that a little, oh, I dunno - racist? You can't scream racism when you propose a racist solution.
Worker revolution will be coming (Score:2)
It's pretty obvious to me that the worker revolution is going to be happening in the next 20 years if not sooner. The rich keep trying to squeeze whatever they can out of people and the environment and the younger generation is pissed.
Here's a good example (Score:2)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
AFAIK this is real.
(As heard on the No Agenda podcast.)
Only because... (Score:3)
The only reason employees feel compelled to take the wheel is because they realize that their leadership is completely incompetent and delusional. We'd really actually like REAL leaders that actually do their job so we can just do ours but that's apparently like asking for the sun, the moon and the stars anymore.
I think the best part is how there are plenty of articles about burnt out and overworked managers with self help strategies like delegating work. So, let me get this straight, you, the poor woe is me manager, that's sitting in meetings all day playing on your phone is so stressed out that you should get special privileges to delegate any work arbitrarily that you want to and get paid more money? Where's my special privilege? Why can't I delegate that fly-in on fire shit ball task that you want done yesterday? Double standard.
No duh... (Score:3)
So, first you let big business destroy unions in the US, when folks grandparents fought, in many cases literally, to form, and how you feel helpless.
And a petition's going to get upper management to change their minds. I'm sure the idea of forming a union again never entered your pretty little libertarian-brainwashed heads....
Re:Translation (Score:4, Funny)
We need to build a wall and keep all the females out until they can be throughly vetted. Over 50% of the poeple living in this country are female, did you know that? That's MILLIONS. We have to put a stop to this until we cn figre out WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON.
Re:Translation (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Translation (Score:5, Insightful)
We're sorry, but North Carolina will have to see your birth certificate, please.
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We'll make the women pay for the wall!
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1. Dress codes (outside of safety) have little to do with working hard and more to do with enforcing unnecessary conformity. As long as your clothing's sanitary and safe for the typical workday environment, I don't see a reason why it can't be worn to work. Employees undistracted by uncomfortable clothing are productive employees. Asking for this should got get one fired as it has nothing to do with workload.
2. In mentioning 'white men' the letter's author exposes a racist viewpoint. Just because someone
Re:Translation (Score:5, Insightful)
They also promote the image the company wants to project publicly in many cases.
I hate the dress codes too, but they can be there for a reason.
I was at a place that started out having all men wear ties, women were dresses, or if in pants they had to be pretty formal looking.
After a few years there, they relaxed the dress codes to much more casual when in the work place when not meeting or being seen by customers.
But if we had to meet with customers or they were coming into our building, we had to go back to ties and formal looks those days.
And hell, for the times it is for conformity, I'd think the snowflake generation would be used to wearing the "school uniform"...don't most public and private schools today require uniforms?
Re: Translation (Score:2)
As for the uniforms, no, not that I'm aware of. At least not here in New Brunswick.
Dresscodes shouldn't be super anal, but I wholly agree with dressing nicely when dealing with customers. Impressions go a long way, regardless of skill level. Combine both and you are set for life.
I have seen dress pants / ties / nice shits cablei (Score:2)
I have seen dress pants / ties / nice shits cabling / hooking and unhook systems from desks jobs. That can get measly fast.
dress pants, button-down shirt and tie preferred for a temp PC move in an office building job.
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Fun anecdote about this that happened to a friend who's a linux sysadmin at a midsize software house here in Finland. Much like me (and most people I know that don't have to be in regular customer contact). He usually wears hoodies, t-shirts, cargopants. You know, the typical 'casual and comfortable nerdy look" but for said meeting with a larger customer he was prepared to suit up, when his boss actually interrupted him and told
Re:Translation (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't know where in the US you are located, but where I live, pretty much all the public schools require uniforms, it was put in to keep the poor kids from feeling bad next to the better dressed wealthier kids.
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In America, about 20% of public schools require uniforms [ed.gov]. This is an increase from around 12% in the 1999-2000 school year. Uniforms are more common in low income areas where classroom control and gangs are bigger problems.
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As far back as the 90's, uniforms existed in public education. In Washington State, I attended a public school for a year which required them. It was damn entertaining being sent home for wearing bluejeans one day!
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And even the high executives shouldn't. The only thing a man in a suit and tie says to me is "I'm going to overcharge you by the cost of this suit"
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And even the high executives shouldn't.
Neckties constrict blood flow to the brain. Taking an IQ test while wearing a tie lowers your score by an average of 3 points. Neckties make you stupid, at least while you are wearing them.
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Try a cravat instead. Couple of with a monocle. That look never goes pour of style.
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I agree with your second point, but dress code, is important. I work completely differently in shorts and a tee than a button down shirt.
A button down puts me in a completely different mindset and attitude. Having a co-worker in sandals and ripped shorts is distracting. When I go to a client or have a client come to me, I want myself and all my co-workers looking like professional bad-asses at work, not slackers. It's all perception.
Long time ago, someone also told me to dress for the job I want, that's bee
Re:Translation (Score:5, Insightful)
http://dilbert.com/strip/2017-03-29 [dilbert.com]
You're missing the boat. The lazy slacker is the most efficient employee you can have. He'll find a way to get the job done in a quarter of the time and a tenth of the cost- just so he can goof off the rest of the day.
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By all means, if you work better in a shirt and tie, wear them. Someone who works better in shorts and T shirt should be able to wear that if he chooses (again barring safety concerns). You are making the typical mistake of projecting your mental state onto your others. Just because you need to dress the part and play-act it doesn't mean they need it too. Clothing shouldn't define the employee or the job, the skills possessed and the skills required should, respectively.
Beyond specific safety concerns (eg
Re:Translation (Score:5, Informative)
1. Dress codes (outside of safety) have little to do with working hard and more to do with enforcing unnecessary conformity.
If you're an employee who deals with customers then suck it up. Your employer has every right to demand you dress appropriately, else you could be costing them business. Don't like it?...gtfo. Our office has a business casual dress code...don't come in wearing shorts or flip flops. If you want to be a slob, go somewhere else.
I've also had occasion to ask HR to talk to a female employee about her exposing a bit too much...every day. I'm no Puritan, but sheesh, the office isn't a place to share your cleavage, or wear skirts that expose your panties.
Re:Translation (Score:5, Insightful)
It is a cultural problem. A problem you've illustrated quite well. Why does a tie imply professionalism? Why not focus on how efficient your employees are and the accomplishments of your company instead of associating it with arbitrary fashion? This applies to your customers as well. I realize you're bowing to pragmatic reality, but fashion obsession is anything but professional (unless of course you work in the fashion biz).
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"Why does a tie imply professionalism? Why not focus on how efficient your employees are and the accomplishments of your company instead of associating it with arbitrary fashion? This applies to your customers as well."
The customer is always right. They get to vote with their wallet or feet, and don't have to be professional.
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Dress codes do indeed have little personal benefit if you're sitting at a desk in an office all day. However it's also been proven that dressing professional makes people act more professional. And often people have to interact with clients, even if you're just sitting at a desk, clients may come in for meetings, they expect a certain decorum.
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Generalization aside, I was actually sort of with you on that until...
They also think they're entitled to power even though they haven't worked hard enough to earn a management position.
That should read "they haven't worked long and/or smart enough to earn a management position."
Entrepreneurs who are successful enough to found their own self-sustaining company are exempt from this, naturally...
so, unionize, and get a contract (Score:2)
then you get a chance at the table.
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So true. In fact, if I were CEO of IBM, I'd make it publicly known that I literally used their petition as toilet paper and tell them to get back to fucking work. If you don't like your job, quit.
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Let me translate. A bunch of whining millennial snowflakes want a say in getting out of working hard. They also think they're entitled to power even though they haven't worked hard enough to earn a management position. Millennial snowflakes are crybabies and don't deserve to be promoted.
Hmmm...could be. On the other hand it occurs to me that people who own stock have a say in running the company. Why is that? I'm certain that they pay more for stock or take less compensation in order to get partial contr
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I opened this tread with enthusiasm and what do I see - it's about clothing and white men. Well, I think this is the least of our problems. How about this - my company might be soon a subject of a hostile take over from US corporation. Now, I would very much like if the employees had any say about THAT, you know.....tens of thousands of jobs are at the stake plus enormous losses to the country and society should my company disappear. Not to mention the hit on the environment - the US corp has a dismal recor
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What we have is a new generation that:
- believes they are ENTITLED to have what they want
- has never been told "no" by their parents
- believes that rock n' roll, sex and drugs can effect change
FTFY
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The person in charge of you is your boss, and tells you what to do.
Unless you're a contractor. Your boss can direct your work but they can't tell you what to do. Otherwise, you're an employee and the employer has deliberately misclassified you to commit tax fraud.
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In my line of work, contractors don't get "company" benefits and are the first to go when business slows down, but unlike us "first class citizens" with 401k match and benefits, they get to charge by the hour whereas we are salaried.
I never work directly for the clients. I work as an employee for a contracting agency that provides a full benefit package to stay competitive in the labor market. I'm usually the "contractor" that the company brings in after they fire all the full-time staff members to clean up the mess.
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Where I am they treat contractors exactly the same as employees, except they get a bit extra money rather then health benefits.
Since I work for contracting agencies, I get the extra money and a full benefit package.