Will Trump Protect America's IT Workers From H-1B Visa Abuses? (cio.com.au) 400
Monday president-elect Donald Trump sent "the strongest signal yet that the H-1B visa program is going get real scrutiny once he takes office," according to CIO.
Slashdot reader OverTheGeicoE summarizes their report:
President-elect Donald Trump released a video message outlining his policy plans for his first 100 days in office. At 1 minute, 56 seconds into the message, he states that he will direct the Department of Labor to investigate "all abuses of the visa programs that undercut the American worker." During his presidential campaign, Trump was critical of the H-1B visa program that has been widely criticized for displacing U.S. high-technology workers. "Companies are importing low-wage workers on H-1B visas to take jobs from young college-trained Americans," said Trump at an Ohio rally. At other rallies, Trump invited former IT workers from Disney who had been forced to train their H-1B replacements to speak.
"What he didn't say was that he was going to close the door to skilled immigrants," one tech entrepreneur told CNN Money -- although Trump's selection for attorney general has called the shortage of qualified American tech workers "a hoax".
"What he didn't say was that he was going to close the door to skilled immigrants," one tech entrepreneur told CNN Money -- although Trump's selection for attorney general has called the shortage of qualified American tech workers "a hoax".
Yes. No. Maybe. (Score:5, Insightful)
As with all things Trump, you'll never know until he does it. The best "advice" I saw was to ignore the mouth in front of the man.
Re:Yes. No. Maybe. (Score:5, Insightful)
As with all things Trump, you'll never know until he does it. The best "advice" I saw was to ignore the mouth in front of the man.
Even if he does roll a "DO" on his presidential dice-of-deciding, it doesn't mean the rest of the government will allow him to. There are plenty of congressmen and women on both sides of the aisle taking money from companies that profit from H1B abuse to block any attempts to reign them in.
Re:Yes. No. Maybe. (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Yes. No. Maybe. (Score:5, Insightful)
The bribery thing will cut both ways... and will cut trump far harder than anyone else, as he is unwilling to unlink himself from his business interests. Almost anything he does is going to have an angle that benefits him personally.
Re:Yes. No. Maybe. (Score:5, Insightful)
Out in the open? trump? the guy who wouldn't even open up his taxes the way every other candidate for the last 50 years has? Hillary was FAR more open than he is.
Re:Yes. No. Maybe. (Score:4, Insightful)
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Correct the Record? Hillary's paid trolls, lead by sleazeball David "a little nutty, a little slutty" Brock? That's like citing Sean Hannity on anything, while he's high off of sniffing Rush Limbaugh's taint and snorting Reagan's ashes through a straw.
Re:Yes. No. Maybe. (Score:5, Insightful)
trump is actively engaging in corruption as we speak because somehow, someone forgot to make the conflict of interest law apply to POTUS.
there's a repbulican majority in congress, and all they need to do to make him sign something is suck his dick a little bit.
all he cares about is his himself.
and agian with the union bullshit
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Yep, and the foreign workers in Trump's American properties aren't here on the H1B program, so he's safe.
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As opposed to what other politician? Take everything they say with a healthy dose of skepticism.
More importantly, you need to be able to translate political speech into plain English. When a politician says he is "setting up a committee to investigate", that does NOT mean he is going to actually do anything to solve that problem. It means the opposite.
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Obama has kept ~70% of his promises.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/
Grow up. Just because YOUR candidate is a fraud doesn't mean they all are.
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
Tells someone to grow up. Sources politifact.
Stop being a dipshit.
Politifact is owned by the Tampa Bay Times.
A large contributor to democrat politicians. Including the biggest fraud of all. Hillary.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
So...then Trump owing millions to foreign banks makes him...what's the word....I cannot quite find the right word....ah, here it is in your note, thank you, the word is "fraud".
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So...then Trump owing millions to foreign banks makes him...what's the word....I cannot quite find the right word....ah, here it is in your note, thank you, the words are "in debt".
FTFY
Re:Yes. No. Maybe. (Score:4, Insightful)
as if that determines whether or not anything they say is true.
you are free to prove them wrong.
the fact you sockpuppetted your self up means nothing.
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Feel free to explain if Politifact isn't biased, why they contradict themselves on if a claim is true or not based on who said it. [twitter.com]
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Bernie: http://www.politifact.com/trut... [politifact.com]
Trump: http://www.politifact.com/virg... [politifact.com]
I suspect one reason that they were more generous to Sanders is that his campaign was willing to point them to their source, and that he used a different term (albeit not the proper one) to indicate that he was using a number other than what is commonly meant by the unemployment rate.
As with any source your best bet is to read their research.
Factchecking politifact is too much trouble? (Score:3)
No ... the only thing that matters is some kind of ratty conspiracy theory connection between politifact and Democrats. Add a gratuitous slur on mrs. Clinton (nevermind that several investigative committees failed to come up with paydirt).
Nah, typical Trump
Re:Yes. No. Maybe. (Score:5, Informative)
Your link shows he kept 46% of promises and compromised on 26% of them. Furthermore, if you read through the list of recently-rated promises, you'll notice that politifact stretches pretty far to give him a positive rating, particularly on the compromise ones.
A particular favorite of mine:
Restrict warrantless wiretaps [politifact.com]
Update November 18th, 2016: Some limits on warrantless wiretaps but loopholes remain
Note also that the full list of promises omits several key items, not the least of which was the promise for transparency, which has obviously been broken [pbs.org].
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Yeah, but some more than others. Like in Trump's case, way way way more.
Re:Yes. No. Maybe. (Score:5, Insightful)
When Trump's statements are fact-checked, he is far, far, far, ... far less truthful than anyone else in politics. He not only lies, he repeats some real whoppers. Basically he relies on Hitler's theory of the 'Big Lie', and apparently it still works.
Re:Yes. No. Maybe. (Score:4, Informative)
Well dispite common belief most politicians do try to keep their promises for their agenda. However complications come up. Opposing political parties who are also in power. Changes in the conditions makes such changes impractical. Or just having it on so low priority that it never is gotten too.
Once you get into power those armchair quarterbacking simple answers quickly become far more complicated.
Those policies may work for 51% of the population however it may significantly hinder the other 49%. When you run the country you have a lot of conflicting interests to maintain. Too bad see this fact as being dishonest or wishwashy, because not understanding such issues cause people to vote for some jackass who can make broad promises.
Re:And it doesn't matter. (Score:5, Insightful)
No it would not.
If it were only the popular vote, then approx 3 states or so would call the shots for ALL the states in the union, and that does not represent the vastly different interests of each state due to its peoples' outlooks, and its needs based on its geography.
We'd basically have CA and NY for the most part deciding the presidents for the US going forward.
The way things were set up, you are a citizen of your STATE first...and then a citizen of the United States. This is for a very good reason. One size in a nation this large does not fit. That's why most power is supposed to reside with each state and the federal govt is constitutionally supposed to be weak in regard to that balance of power.
But we are a nation of states....and the balance needs to be kept on that level, not on pure population levels in very isolated regions.
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If it were only the popular vote, then approx 3 states or so would call the shots for ALL the states in the union
This is wrong.
If it's a popular vote, States don't matter. No one will be fighting for votes in Bakersfield, California. Even though California is the highest population state. Instead, popular vote would mean cities are the important target for a presidential candidate. Those are much more geographically distributed than you imply.
Additionally, you're ignoring the fact that Republican voters in states like CA and NY, and Democratic voters in states like TX would actually matter. Instead of being utter
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You say that as if it means something. It doesn't. The goal of the candidates was to win the electoral vote, not the popular vote. It has been this way in the US for 200+ years. Both candidates knew this and based their campaign strategy on it. If the goal was to win the popular vote, it would have been a different campaign, different people would have voted, and Trump may have won that, too.
When the contest is for the
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I don't have a problem. People who don't understand how (and why) the system works have a problem. Let's look at an example...
In California, Hillary won the popular vote by about 3 million votes. But it doesn't matter whether she won by 3 million, 1 million, or 10 million. It was a foregone conclusion that Hillary would win California and its 55 electoral votes, so neither candidate spent much time there. And I su
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Go to the transition website (Score:5, Insightful)
Go to the transition website. Use the feature to submit an idea and tell them about H1B abuse. I did. Probably does nothing. Couldn't hurt. Tell them if your company is doing it. Name names and give numbers. I did. Probably does nothing. Couldn't hurt.
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Direct Link: https://apply.ptt.gov/yourstor... [ptt.gov]
I've submitted about H1B's, getting fiber, etc.
Despite the Green Party's money grab, he's going to happen, I might as well make the best of it.
Re:Go to the transition website (Score:5, Insightful)
All of them. H1B is de facto indentured servitude.
They count the number of messages for & agains (Score:2)
Generally politicians don't pay much attention to the content of individual messages, but they do count the number of messages from constituents on each side of an issue. If they receive 1,000 messages urging them to support a bill and 10,000 in opposition, they notice that.
Obviously they also notice if the 12 Wall Street banks who finance 30% of their campaign costs want them to take one side or the other.
Of course, Trump isn't a standard politician. Who knows what he'll do. For example, he's not dependen
No (Score:5, Insightful)
Look at who he is stocking his cabinet with... If you think he is going to do anything to protect workers, you drank too much of the koolaid.
Re:No (Score:5, Insightful)
Not to mention this is the same guy who claims he wants to bring jobs back to America but uses illegal foreign workers on his projects, buys Chinese steel rather than American steel and has his name brand products made in China and Mexico.
He's already said he wants to get rid of safety and consumer-friendly regulations so why would anyone think he'd do anything to a program which is now used as an excuse to not hire American workers?
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Not to mention this is the same guy who claims he wants to bring jobs back to America but uses illegal foreign workers on his projects, buys Chinese steel rather than American steel and has his name brand products made in China and Mexico.
Maybe, but you know what? Trump actually spoke directly to the beaten down American worker. He acknowledged his pain and suffering and promised to help him recover. Even if the promise is not kept, he at least claimed that he would fight for the American worker and love him or hate him Trump has a reputation for getting shit done. Compare that to Hillary Clinton, who basically ignored the American worker or at least the white working poor (ex middle class) worker in the rust belt and coal states. Hillary Cl
Re:No (Score:5, Insightful)
Maybe, but you know what? Trump actually spoke directly to the beaten down American worker.
He spoke more clearly and convincingly to those who actually have money. We know this because the median yearly income of Trump voters was $10,000 higher than that of Clinton voters. It's not Trump's message to the working man that got him elected. It's his appeal to the rich. If he gets his way, wave goodbye to the estate tax, and say hello to tax cuts for the already-rich at the expense of the working class.
Now I ask you, if you were a blue collar high school educated white man struggling to feed a family and hold onto the home by your fingernails, who would you have voted for?
I would have voted for Sanders in the primary, and when he didn't become the candidate, I would have stayed home. That's what the statistics show happened more often than not, anyway.
The blue collar high school educated man may be ignorant, but he's not stupid.
Right. That's why the idea that he voted for Trump is a myth.
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Do you really think all those rural Obama voters in Wisconsin, Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Michigan were thinking about the estate tax when they voted for Trump? I don't know what they were thinking, but it's a real stretch to claim they're wealthy enough to care about things like the estate tax.
You may not like it or understand why anyone would have voted for him, but this is how the election came out. A group of working class people felt overlooked and were very motivated to show up and vote for Trump in p
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Some traditional "country club" Republican strongholds, like Orange County California, voted for Clinton.
The California GOP has more in common with the endangered spotted owl than 1/10th of the U.S. population. The city of Santa Ana in Orange County is 78% Latino. They voted for Clinton.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/12/us/california-latino-voters.html?_r=0 [nytimes.com]
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While the growth of those neighborhoods definitely effects politics, it's not even close to the whole story. How about the local newspaper [ocregister.com]. Note that the local Democratic stronghold is the University neighborhood (which is maybe better for everyone than identity politics).
This is the first time since 1936 that OC went blue. In a place with ~200,000 more registered Republicans than Democrats, Clinton won by almost 100,000 votes, with another ~64k votes going to 3rd party (or no one), with a very high turnou
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It's not Trump's message to the working man that got him elected. It's his appeal to the rich. If he gets his way, wave goodbye to the estate tax, and say hello to tax cuts for the already-rich at the expense of the working class.
Do you really think all those rural Obama voters in Wisconsin, Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Michigan were thinking about the estate tax when they voted for Trump? I don't know what they were thinking, but it's a real stretch to claim they're wealthy enough to care about things like the estate tax.
Primarily, I think you've got several screws loose. I think the rich voted for Trump because of things like the estate tax, which is what I actually said. Now, I do think that the rural Obama voters who voted for Trump were thinking that Trump would help them with jobs, but I also think they were not the primary force in electing Trump.
You may not like it or understand why anyone would have voted for him,
No, I understand precisely why people voted for him. People with money voted for him on the premise that they could keep more of it. People without money who are also stupid
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Primarily, I think you've got several screws loose. I think the rich voted for Trump because of things like the estate tax...
This implies that rich and upper-middleclass people are stupid. 90% of Americans have a net worth < $1 million. 99.5% have a net worth < $11.8 Million. [dqydj.com] Under current tax law, you only pay federal estate taxes on the part of your net worth that exceeds $10.9 Million for 2016, which is automatically adjusted for inflation. That < 1% of the population obviously couldn't have elected trump on their own, so the rest of the rich and semi-rich who voted for him must either be stupid or naively optimistic
Re:No (Score:4, Insightful)
And there it is. It's the uneducated angry white guy who voted the con-artist into office because they were too stupid to think for themselves, not to mention the white supremacists.
These people swallowed every lie fed to them, hook, line and sinker, because, as is repeatedly mentioned on here, they didn't adapt to the changing work environment. Instead of realizing coal would never be king again and looking to other job opportunities such as wind or solar power, like the farrier and blacksmith of yore they clung desperately to the past. They fought tooth and nail every renewable energy project which might have provided them with good paying, sustainable jobs because they were too stupid to look beyond their back door.
Tell me, in four years when absolutely nothing has changed, who are these people going to blame? I can guarantee their stupidity will be on full display when they place blame everywhere else (liberals, socialists, blacks, hispanics, etc) rather than on Trump who made grand promises which he had no way and no intention of every keeping.
Trump is a showman like Lyle Lanley who promised Springfield the world if they built a monorail [wikipedia.org], except in the end, Trump will still pocket millions because of his conflicts of interest while the coal miners will be no further along and still just a bunch of angry white men.
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Trump actually spoke directly to the beaten down American worker. He acknowledged his pain and suffering and promised to help him recover.
"I feel your pain". - William Jefferson Clinton.
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
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I find that no worse than the minimum wage advocates that pay less than they are advocating for. If he alone changes his hiring and business practices it will just hurt his business to the point where it's a net negative. If his competitors are also forced to make the same changes, they won't get an advantage over him and America will be better off for it.
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Give the guy a break, he says he'll have the Mexicans pay for the wall. So, they'd be paying Americans American wages to build a wall to keep their people from leaving...or is it from coming back seeing as net migration is now from the U.S. to Mexico. Hmm...oh, wait, he's now saying he doesn't need a wall, a mere fence will keep those hordes of Mexicans from working in his hotels...errr...stealing American jobs.
In fairness to Mussolini's trains (Score:3)
Despite the things you expect him to fuck up, he will probably do some beneficial things, too... with an eye towards beneficial is in the eye of the beholder.
Geeesh! Are there no wives tales left? [snopes.com]
No (Score:2, Insightful)
It seems that he is turning into a politician really fast. By February, they will have him reeled in.
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What about his past behaviour suggested that he would actually do this? He used immigrant labour to literally build his empire. He thinks finding ways around the law (like not paying taxes) is "smart".
Re: No (Score:2)
In business it is smart.
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No, it is unethical. There's a difference.
Need to prevent small companies from H1B (Score:5, Interesting)
The most common usage I see in Seattle is through contracting firms. Usually Indian 'mom and pop' ones that already have their green card running several H1B 'spots'. If you are an immigrant, you pay in to them for the opportunity to be hired for a job through their company. So you get to live in the US and go on interviews till someone hires you, then you pay that time off by getting shit pay while they charge 5 or 6 times more than they pay you. Consulting and contract companies should never be allocated H1B.
Re: Need to prevent small companies from H1B (Score:3)
Yes it also illegal to walk across the border.
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Someone who talked with Trump says it's unlikely (Score:5, Interesting)
"Bruce Josten, the chief lobbyist at the United States Chamber of Commerce, said he had already been in communication with members of Mr. Trump's transition team, as the chamber pushes its priorities like securing approval for the Keystone Pipeline, the oil pipeline project blocked by the Obama administration, or reopening more federal lands to oil and gas exploration."
"The chamber already knows there are certain items Mr. Trump has said he will not support, like the current versions of trade deals with Asia or comprehensive changes in the nation's immigration laws, which the chamber pushed during Mr. Obama's tenure. But there are aspects of each of these plans, like increasing the number of visas for highly skilled foreign workers, that Mr. Josten said he expects Mr. Trump to endorse.
Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/11/us/politics/lobbyists-trump.html [nytimes.com]
"No" (Score:3)
The H1B visa workers help foster profits for the top mangers of the companies that employ them. Donald Trump's policies are _all_ aimed at putting power and money in the hands of the wealthy. It should be trivial, as the president and with a Rep8ublican congress, to "reduce H1B visas" for his supporting voters but leave in large loopholes to protect their broad corporate use.
Re: (Score:2)
Like the L1 visa?
I have never understood why, with all the hate for H1 visas, the L1 visa category has not come under more scrutiny.
One thing at a time (Score:2)
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The L1 visas are _for_ the top managers. They allow international companies with personnel like Donald Trump himself to move to, live in, and be paid in whatever nation is to their personal and professional benefit.
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Wrong:
"Specialized knowledge" isn't that restrictive. Also, people like Donald Trump can buy themselves a visa through the "E" visa class.
Ha ha ha (Score:2)
"Will Trump Protect America's IT Workers From H-1B Visa Abuses?"
No.
Next "story", please....
Re: (Score:2)
What if he actually did a good job? (Score:5, Interesting)
I didn't vote for him but I have to wonder... what if he does a good job? What if he was actually able to do better than previous presidents?
I think the man is very vain. He is 70 years old. But a righteous legacy would be something he might sell his soul for.
He does know business and money. But it's real estate. Which means construction and turnover. Other rich don't necessarily like him because he doesn't care about keeping them rich. He is anti PAC. He has committed that his own cabinet won't be able to turn around and take insider jobs at companies. He is politically and financially not a friend to the rich.
I compare him to Nixon whom was also both very smart and naive about certain things. While Reagan wanted to outspend Russia in the cold war. Nixon wanted to steer China toward a liberal Fascism by marrying them to money and markets. (Kind of similar to how old kingdoms would arrange marriage [hostages] and guests so that there were personal ties of interest to both.) But China isn't spending western money. It's more like they are trying to bankrupt western nations.
Back on topic: Trump seems to support a more protectionist economy with an eye at least toward balancing trade. So it makes sense for him to be anti loop hole H1B. EVERYONE knows it's about cheaper tech workers to keep down tech salaries. I can only wish he would audit American companies and well known brands and show how they cheated the system and for how much. But he will use that instead as bargaining power; maybe shame a couple known companies in the beginning.
I think shamming companies on public TV will be a major theme for him. He does understand the PR game and how that would affect their stock prices in the short run. I expect an across the board minimum tax for businesses at least in the low double digits with phase ins and tax breaks for those that move/build facilities for manufacturing here. So there will definitely be a boom in construction and real estate which is generally good for the middle class.
I think it's much more likely (Score:5, Insightful)
But it's a moot point anyway. His cabinet picks alone are all other completely corrupt, completely incompetent or both. Whatever he wants to do doesn't matter. The important decisions will be made for him to the benefit of the 1% and the detriment of the rest of us.
He's got huge investments in India (Score:2)
Trump is walking back every promise he's made except the ones that are give aways to the 1%ers. What scares me most is thinking whats going to happen in year 3 when his approval ratings are single digits and he's up for reelection. War. War's gonna happen. A nasty war with some nation we're sure we can win against.
He'll Say (Score:2)
They're looking at it, that it's very important, really important - and he can't believe what his people are finding. But in the end he'll let businesses do whatever they want.
A more humane approach to foreign trade issues... (Score:2)
A more humane approach to foreign trade issues across the board (both labor trade and trade of goods) would be to require equality of labor pay. In the past, we didn't have the big data skills to make this practical. I think we now do.
Basically, if you offshore labor, import labor, or import goods, simply require that the workers involved in providing the labor or creating the goods (at all levels of the vertical chain required to create the goods, i.e. all the way down to the raw material mining) get at le
Put your eyes on this egg basket (Score:2)
The H1B visa program is an excellent choice as a bell weather of what a Trump administration can be expected to do for the average person. Around tax time next year (April 15th) is about 90 days in office. Set a reminder folks. "April 15th. Look around and see what the H1B visa abuse situation is. TRUMP Promise."
Will he keep it or will he break it? I don't know. I have my thoughts but I will have them settled one way or the other by May.
This should be very easy to prove (Score:2)
This should be very easy to prove because US workers are being REPLACED by H1 workers. US workers are training H1 to take thier jobs so they are clearly being used as cheap replacement workers not what H1 was designed to do.
Midwestern Viewpoint (Score:2)
While the Midwest isn't typically impacted as hard by H-1B activity. I'd certainly like to see the President overhaul the whole program and tighten it way down. I don't need it to go away, what I would like to see is for H-1B to be MORE EXPENSIVE than training someone locally. It should be an expensive option that you use when you don't have time to build the skill set locally.
However, I am from Missouri. You really have to Show Me, for me to believe.
Simple option (Score:2)
To be eligible to work in NZ as a skilled worker your pay must be typical for a person in the industry, or you work visa will no be renewed. It stops employers importing staff for economic reasons. It is not easy to get a work visa for NZ, so employers only go down that path when there is a genuine shortage of local candidates. While it may be possible to game the system I doubt it h
Best Interests (Score:3)
Trump will do what is in his best interests. In this case I believe he will almost certainly follow up on his claim to "fix" the H1b abuses. Why?
4 Reasons:
1) It literally has zero negative impact on his own business holdings
2) He ran (and won) on bringing American jobs back
3) If he wants to win those "Blue" states on re-election like California this is the way to do it. Same idea except white collar VS blue
4) It give the middle finger to all those IT CEO's that bad mouthed him in the past election
Seem pretty straight forward to me. As for other republicans trying to block him, I don't think it will work, as some other had mentioned, he pretty much got elected without a lot of republican support to begin with and I don't think he would even blink before throwing a few republic opponents under the bus and fast if only as simply a statement of who is boss...
As to how fair or draconian the actual policy will be or even how effective it is remains to be scene...
Re: (Score:2)
Re:offshoring (Score:5, Interesting)
They would have offshored it to begin with if offshoring was the same as hiring cheap on-shore labor. Even at its most evil, doing H1B involves a bunch over inherent overhead that doesn't exist in pure offshoring.
It's not the same, though, because they gain a bunch of benefits from on-premise H1Bs they wouldn't have with off-shoring -- control over the product, direct management involvement, less travel, an ability to use H1B labor more strategically through partial replacement, and so on.
If they can't use H1B, offshoring isn't a direct replacement. A business may decide that the added costs and risks of total offshoring aren't worth it.
IMHO, part of the goal here is make business incur either the total cost of offshoring or hire American workers. Maybe in some cases they decide for offshoring completely, but I think in many cases the calculus would work out that the incremental cost of losing all on-shore benefits was higher than hiring and paying American workers.
Split teams (Score:3, Interesting)
There are split teams: An American team as well as an Indian team. We've been doing this since the late nineties. And over the years, the ratio of American/Indian work has steadily fell.
It boosts the ROI of the product. And that's what's gonna continue to happen. As companies like mine continue to send more and more work that is getting more and more complicated, the Indians are getting better and better and I dare say that in most instances they are just a good as Americans now.
Don't forget, quite a few
Re: (Score:3)
This I believe is the problem H1B visa utilization today. As long as the balance sheet at the end of the quarter shows that it was the better economical decision, then they will continue to use it as currently design. Its original intent was to bring in outside talent not available in the local work force and the minimum pay was a "fixed amount". THAT IS THE PROBLEM.
Instead of a fixed amount a percentage above the industry standard rate could effectively close this loophole as this could allow the comp
Re: (Score:2)
You left out the ability to ignore labor laws for H1Bs as they'll get deported if they lose their jobs.
Re:offshoring (Score:5, Insightful)
Remember folks, in many cases companies will simply offshore the work if they don't perceive American labor as the most cost-effective option.
Labor isn't the only cost. Why do you think that offshore companies want to relocate workers here to the United States on visas rather than basing them in say India or wherever they're from? Here in the US a worker benefits from strong military and police protection, rule of law, good infrastructure, reliable power supply, large concentrations of the best educated and most experienced tech workers in the world and the list goes on. Compare that with a country like India say, where the power is only on about half the time, you need a fortress campus with armed guards, you need to build your own infrastructure (water purification, power, sewage, etc) because the local shit for brains government provides nothing. American workers paying American taxes built America. It's our right to benefit from that first. If a company wants to relocate to an offshore shit hole and compete from there, more power to them, but we must end the H1-B visa fraud at the expense of our American workers. It's our country. We voted for Trump so that he would throw the bums out. Let them compete from their developing nations, but it's time to send the liars, cheaters and scammers a message that the party is over. From now on we're going to be looking out for America first and that includes the American worker.
Re:offshoring (Score:5, Informative)
As someone in a management position in an indian IT shop, we would rather keep workers here in india. Margins are much higher (~90%) for indian labour than an H1B(50%). Infrastructure is pretty good in india - the govt helps with a lot of the infrastructure, and infrastructure costs are even more cheaper in india. Plus the IT industry is exempt from labour laws so you can make 'em work long hours, weekends, whatever. Developers are seen as mostly disposable - colleges churn out tons of STEM grads, so most of the older ones who don't leave or don't work their asses off are kicked out in the name of performance anyway to make way for young blood.
Power gone for half the time and armed guards? Power is not an issue in the cities, and armed guards? even the cops here don't carry arms. only the ones in our movies do.
the only reason we do H1B's is when a client insists on someone there. and we try to discourage them as far as we can.
Re:offshoring (Score:5, Insightful)
American workers paying American taxes built America.
Guess where H1B workers pay their taxes in?..
In fact, they pay more than you, because they pay all the welfare taxes too, but aren't eligible for any of it.
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There are companies that tried that and failed. Then they reel the work back in. Then they try again. Lather, rinse, repeat. The slippage is huge. In addition the cost of over seas labor is increasing (due to crappy software needing support, but that's another thread) and the skill level is dropping due to crappy education systems.
Re: offshoring (Score:2)
You need to move. Where I live people make 45k for taking a six week programming course.
Re:offshoring (Score:4, Interesting)
Here's the trend I'm seeing - unless you have the talent to go to Stanford, MIT or some other top school, you're not going to have much of a career here as an American.
I graduated from the eighth grade with fifth grade math and writing skills, and college-level reading comprehension. I never went to high school. When I entered the community college, it took two years of remedial classes and two years of college classes to graduate with an A.A. degree in General Ed. A decade later I would go back to get an A.S. in Computer Programming and make the college president's list for maintaining a 4.0 GPA in my major. I'm in my 22th year of my technical career.
Once you're in test or support, you're stuck there.
What's wrong with test or support? I've done software testing for six years, help desk support for six years, PC refresh projects and built out data centers on short-term contracts, and I'm currently doing computer security for government IT. These are not glamorous jobs (a.k.a., virtual ditch digging) but someone has to do them.
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If there is steady work in it so what. I have a friend who ended up in AC electrical despite wanting to get into micro electronics, which later begat computer engineering et. al. He always had steady work, commercial and industrial, and he figured that while his salary looked lower than some of his friends and cohorts he made more money over 20+ years because his line of work rarely had layoffs. He never went months with out pay and he never had to dip into savings.
To heck with sexy tech, show me the money.
Re: Trump is a moron. Stop asking. (Score:3)
Yep. If he gets out of line the GOP congress will impeach him on any one of his many real scandals resulting in Mike Pence as president.
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Yep. If he gets out of line the GOP congress will impeach him on any one of his many real scandals resulting in Mike Pence as president.
Not sure what delusions you have but impeaching their own president would be an ever bigger scandal for the GOP and be a months long circus show so unless it's proven that he takes orders direct from Putin it'd never happen. And even then they'd probably bury their heads in the sand and claim it's a fabrication. A million to one odds that won't happen.
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Ron White said it best, there's no fixing stupid, stupid is forever.
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Though I do discount the farm hands who do nothing but do menial tasks in the field. Though I do agree that farm work should pay more as well and incentivize hiring locals to do the jobs.
Tie the minimum wage to the cost of living, and bingo! White people will pick fruit. The alternative is to convert the USA into Mexico, which I do not consider a viable plan. If we do that, though, you will have an easy time finding white people glad to live six to a bedroom because it beats a plywood and 2x2 and street sign shack — not least because in this country we don't permit shanty towns like that. We send in cops and bulldozers.
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Yes, Orange Daddy will make everything better. FUCK ME DADDY.
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And what exactly makes Nikki Haley qualified to be UN Ambassador?
It makes her not governor of South Carolina for a start. The current Lieutenant Governor is a big Trump supporter. Haley is not. He kicked her upstairs to a job no one gives a fuck about. Would be interesting to know if Trump plans on withdrawing us from the UN after he takes office.
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We're low on clickbait stories that will drive page views and ad revenue...wait...holy shit Trump AND H1B's? JACKPOT! - EditorDavid
And yet you clicked on it.
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Because that has exactly the same purpose as H1-B visas: the more programmers competing for jobs, the lower the wages that corporations can pay those programmers.
When I went back to school to learn computer programming, I had to learn every flavor of Java because the CIS department couldn't afford to renew the Microsoft site license for Visual Studio to teach C++. While looking at catalogs for other community colleges, I discovered that they were pumping out Java programmers as fast as they can. When something becomes a commodity, it's time to shift gears into something more profitable. After I graduated with my programming degree, I went into IT field to apply my p
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And IDEs like Eclipse and IntelliJ CE which are free as in beer.
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No site licence needed to learn/teach C++. gcc is free (and runs on windows too, not only linux).
According to the surveys that the college sent out to the surrounding Silicon Valley companies, employers wanted Visual Studio for their C++ programmers. Administration had declared that C++ can't be taught without Visual Studio. The dean taught C++ with gcc in his Linux Admin classes. When the college renewed the Microsoft site license, Visual Studio .NET refused to run on the older computers. The dean had everyone boot into Linux and taught the C++ class with gcc instead, as the textbook was compiler neut
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The factors are complex. You also have to factor in demand and cost of living. FYI, a large tech company whose initials are HPE is shutting down Silly Valley RnD for "lower cost geographies". They just don't want to pay the salaries developers demand to work there.
Re: Even the students are smarter than that... (Score:4, Interesting)
I had a 3.9 on my Calculas and Computer Science classes, but because I got a D+ in Chemistry and a D in Middle Eastern History (mostly because I just didn't give a damn about those classes), I had to apply for an excemption and personally argue my case to avoid being removed from Ohio State University's engineering school.
So what do you do about the parts of a programming job that you don't give a damn about? D+ and D-level work?
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Even if it's unfair compulsory stuff has to be taken seriously and if it was an elective you are suppose to try to pass.
Back when I was teaching in the 1990s I kept being pestered by first year electrical engineering students that thought an incredibly easy and dumbed
How about something for the millions (Score:2)
If everything were hunky-dory we'd be looking at a president Hilary. It's because so many folks don't have the tech jobs they were promised when manufacturing got shipped to Mexico that they didn't bother coming out to vote for her.
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hmm, first of all including graduates and other exemptions it's more. Second of all it's about 100k+ new ones per year so about 600k working h1b's at any given moment. If your numbers are right its about 10% of tech workforce. Also you have to remember that tech jobs in a wide classification and only a part of those jobs are h1b targets unproportionally dev jobs.