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Businesses Cloud IT

How the Cloud Has Changed (Since Last You Looked) 86

snydeq writes: InfoWorld's Peter Wayner takes a look at the new services and pricing models that are making cloud computing more powerful, complex, and cheaper than it was a few short years ago. 'We get more, but using it isn't always as simple as it could be. Sure, you still end up on root on some box that's probably running Linux, but getting the right performance out of that machine is more complex,' Wayner writes. "But the real fun comes when you try to figure out how to pay for your planned cloud deployment because there are more options than ever. ... In some cases, the cost engineering can be more complex than the software engineering."
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How the Cloud Has Changed (Since Last You Looked)

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  • by Anonymous Coward

    And loads via AJAX, and fails to load more often than not! It's too damn complicated.

    • by sexconker ( 1179573 ) on Monday February 08, 2016 @09:01PM (#51466449)

      Segmented content dynamically loaded via AJAX or similar is the devil.
      It's the modern "article split across 10 pages for no reason". Give me a view-all link, and I'll wait for it to load.

      For SOME content it's understandable (Twitter's result set for a hash tag, for example, but NOT the result of a user's entire tweet history), but the AJAX loading is still the devil. Give me traditional paginated loading as an option as well as a way to reliably trigger more content to load without making me hold the end key.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 08, 2016 @08:18PM (#51466245)

    The real problem I've countered is all of the goddamn awful hipster-created software that's out there these days.

    We have to wade through mountains of Ruby on Rails and Node.js bullshit. Both of those ecosystems are fucking awful. Even small web apps need tens or hundreds of small, poorly-maintained libraries or modules that some schmuck threw together one weekend, put on GitHub, and then promptly forgot about. But a bunch of other schmucks then chose to build upon this shitty library, so now it's a dependency of all of them. So instead of getting real work done, you'll sit there waiting for rubygems or npm to install all of these fucking awful libraries.

    Then there's the NoSQL bullshit. And the Docker bullshit. And the git bullshit. It all piles up!

    Dealing with the cloud is the easy part. Dealing with the hipster bullshit is what's hard!

    • by LordLucless ( 582312 ) on Monday February 08, 2016 @08:31PM (#51466301)

      > And the git bullshit.

      Yeah, we never needed this new-fangled version control bullshit in my day. We just email our code changes around the office. Like men.

      • by Dunbal ( 464142 ) *
        E-mail. Hah. We used to send over the boxes of punch cards on a trolley. Like men.
      • by Anonymous Coward

        What I don't get is why so many devs chose a decentralized VCS like git, but then centralized on GitHub. Then they cry and moan when GitHub is down! Git isn't even a good DVCS. Mercurial is much better.

        • Even if GitHub goes down, you can point your repos to a different origin, and continue on as normal, so it still has value. But yeah, I just run my own repos for personal projects. Businesses seem to love paying people for stuff though.

          I've used git and hg. I honestly can't see much difference between the two, but I've probably not dipped too deeply into their featuresets.

      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        by Ace17 ( 3804065 )
        A lot of people seem to equate "distributed version control" to "git". This is incredibly short-sighted (See mercurial, bazaar, bitkeeper, darcs. Raise your hand if you're fluent in any other dvcs than git).

        Git is the C++ of version control: it's incredibly powerfull, but needlessly complicated. It's the result of piling unrelated features while trying not to break the workflow of existing users.
        The issue is, that after monthes of learning to master this complexity, you become convinced that it's necessa
        • A lot of people seem to equate "distributed version control" to "git". This is incredibly short-sighted (See mercurial, bazaar, bitkeeper, darcs. Raise your hand if you're fluent in any other dvcs than git). Git is the C++ of version control: it's incredibly powerfull, but needlessly complicated. It's the result of piling unrelated features while trying not to break the workflow of existing users. The issue is, that after monthes of learning to master this complexity, you become convinced that it's necessary. It's not. And yes, git can also be seen as version control for hipsters. After all, it's designed around letting people diverge from the accepted path :-)

          +2 for Insightful. I've said this time and time again. Down with RoR, Node, Git...just...down with it all, please. #hipsterSoftware #hipsterCoder

      • by blue9steel ( 2758287 ) on Tuesday February 09, 2016 @12:56PM (#51470479)

        > And the git bullshit.

        Yeah, we never needed this new-fangled version control bullshit in my day. We just email our code changes around the office. Like men.

        Real men print them out and send them via inter-office mail. That way they can be read while leaning back in your leather chair, drinking scotch and smoking a pipe.

    • by tepples ( 727027 )

      In what direction would you prefer that the ecosystem move? Incorporate local copies of said plug-ins into each application's repository?

    • by geekpowa ( 916089 ) on Monday February 08, 2016 @08:57PM (#51466431)

      At least the hipsters successfully buried all the needlessly complex crap the prior (my) generation of engineers inflicted upon the world, the whole horrible XML ediface for one: XML, SOAP, XSLT etc. My hats off to them. Fuck I hated XML, and I dance on it's grave. Good also to see insanely heavy weight app frameworks like J2EE slowly slide away too, great stuff hipsters: it's a terrible legacy you are painstakingly superceding, my apologies for my part in creating it.

      Maybe it is in our blood, to channel our energies into at least one needlessly complex endeavour. Their baby is HTML apps (which we foisted upon them BTW so not entirely their fault), and the 'web-scale' cloud.

      YMMV but I've found unless you are processing volumes that require rows upon rows of servers, not a couple of slots in a rack, bare metal dedicated gear from a decent 'cloud' provider works just fine. Still simple, and from my personal experience performance and reliability smashes my competitors who use shared cloud based gear. Tried Amazon a while back for a non-profit high volume site I helped migrate. Pricing and complexity of amazon did my head in, nice to hear it has only gotten worse since then. Finally got it running and the thing just crashed into the mountain no matter how many resources and elastic ips and other inscrutable voodoo we threw it at, did some benchmarks and figured DB IO was absolutely abyssmal. Switched to a simpler visualized single host (volumes high enough to justify bare metal but incredibly cost conscious so needed to make virtual work), running years without a hitch.

      • by Anonymous Coward

        XSLT is the best. I have yet to see a website in XSLT I didn't love.

      • XSLT kicks ass, and it makes my life easier in more ways than I can count. Don't blame the morons using it for stupid pet tricks for which it was never intended.

  • But (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Ol Olsoc ( 1175323 ) on Monday February 08, 2016 @08:43PM (#51466361)
    Am I supposed to think there is anything actually good about the cloud changes?

    More complicated.

    A trend toward moving toward "bare metal" physical boxes for the computing.

    Moving to Cell phone company like who the hell knows what is what pricing.

    All I know is that it seems just as likely a catastrophe in waiting, and given the state of backdooring, ain't happening if I'm a business, because every detail would be exposed.

    • The primary advantage of the cloud has always been that it's cheaper (than your own hardware).
      Maybe now people are choosing it because they don't have the expertise to do anything else, and so prices are rising to take advantage of their ignorance?
      • by tom229 ( 1640685 )
        It's not cheaper. Stop buying the lie. I've had managed service companies flat out tell me that since they started reselling cloud over internal infrastructure, their revenues have tripled. The only party this crap is good for is the guys selling it. That's why they always seem so excited about it, and anyone on the business side of things hasn't stopped prattling on about the cloud for over 5 years. The one exception would be in very small business; under 20 people.
        • It's not cheaper. Stop buying the lie. I've had managed service companies flat out tell me that since they started reselling cloud over internal infrastructure, their revenues have tripled.

          Good point.

          The one exception would be in very small business; under 20 people

          To be fair, there are quite a lot of those.

    • by ebvwfbw ( 864834 )

      A trend toward moving toward "bare metal" physical boxes for the computing.

      Not really. The trend is moving towards virtual machines. That's because almost all of the machines out there are nothing more than someone's BS project with a way over inflated value of their own self worth. I know, captain obvious moment here. They don't need a whole blade. All they really need is a 1GB X 2GHz machine running LAMP or same machine but running Win 2012 and IIS. I manage around 2500 machines. It's a U shaped curve. Probably 25 machines need serious CPU and memory. They do modeling or data

      • A trend toward moving toward "bare metal" physical boxes for the computing.

        Not really. The trend is moving towards virtual machines.

        The author of the linked story disagrees with you.

        • by ebvwfbw ( 864834 )

          The author of the linked story disagrees with you.

          That's fine. Not offended nor does it worry me in the least. Not the first time someone has disagreed with me. However I have an excellent track record of being right in this area. In fact being right has built my house, air planes... and so on.

          Last time I was wrong was when I thought something like the Dec Alpha would take over from the I386. That really should have happened, however stupid manager type people kept on buying the inferior I386 chip. So much so that not even Intel could get people away from

        • by ebvwfbw ( 864834 )

          Ok... Thought I was responding to another post.

          He's *NOT* disagreeing with me. They're selling more space on bare metal precisely for the reason I stated in my response. They're doing their own VM host and not using their crappy offering. I fit into that category. I run a bunch of cloud machines. I run the underlying ESXI or Openstack boxes. So I want the bare metal box and not something some guy put together and administers out of my control. Some guy that probably is a windows admin type wannabe with a

  • Dedicated (lease) servers go a long way even if you keep idling most of the available capacity. I think the main difference between cloud and dedicated servers is usability. Cloud is easy to use (albeit sometimes a bit *too* easy) and it's also very easy to go scale in every direction. However, a small team of knowledgeable software engineers could easily go for dedicated servers instead and save a lot of money while also making it equally scalable.

    I still tend to prefer dedicated over cloud for everythin

    • Yeah, I can see that for decent-sized operations. I've actually been looking at cloud services (EC2 and Azure) lately in order to gather telemetry data from beta software, in order to help with the design and refinement process. We're such a small operation that there's no way we could or should do dedicated servers, nor would it be economical. I can actually rent the smallest server for less than $15 a month with continuous operation, and proportionally less than that if I'm only turning it on part-time

      • If your usage stays below a certain threshold, and Amazon T2 Micro is actually free for a year (and then it's as little as ten bucks a month or even a little less). I'm using one to test out Wiki and project management software as a test server that will eventually be installed on our company servers once approved by IT.

  • Y'all just got trolled by snydeq [slashdot.org]'s millionth article from InfoWorld.

  • CenturyLink just put in fiber optic internet in my neighborhood and offers up to 1 Gbps speeds, but doesn't support static IPs. I've been using Comcast business and mostly don't mind what I pay for business class to get a /29.

    I've been toying with the idea of switching to CenturyLink and running a pfsense instance on a cloud provider somewhere. Most generic Internet traffic (TV streaming, web, etc) would go out the CenturyLink dynamic IP and server traffic would get routed via IPSec to the pfsense instanc

    • The Amazon cost estimator makes it seem mostly reasonable for compute and transit -- my actual server traffic is trivial, and even with generous CPU usage estimates it looked kind of reasonable.

      Whenever I look at costs, bandwidth costs are far higher at Amazon than at most VPS providers. I use a couple of VPSs as streaming video proxies, so bandwidth is a major consideration to me.

  • are there to screw you and lock you into the permanent contract, if not now, then later.
  • I suppose I'm the only person in North America, and maybe the northern hemisphere, that uses the cloud to store data I want access to when out of the office and that data, if exposed, wouldn't damage my business or reputation. I must be awesome. Or maybe the cloud, like social media, is also a useful tool when used for business purposes? Guess I'll have reevaluate using the cloud because the entirety of /. has fears someone will find their research paper on subject x. When did everyone become so bitter, a
  • http://www.cloudorado.com/ [cloudorado.com] has been around almost as long as AWS has. It doesn't have all the providers (who can keep up with them all?), but tools for pricing these services, as a service, have been around for as long as AWS itself. It may not matter for those running a few instances, but people who have really spiky usage needed them since the beginning.

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