Skip the Picks; Expert Uses Hammer To Open a Master Lock (csoonline.com) 222
itwbennett writes: Buyer beware. If it's security you're looking for, the #3 Master Lock might not be for you. In a video, locksport enthusiast Bosnian Bill demonstrates how to open a new #3 Master Lock using a small brass hammer — in under 90 seconds. This video is just one of several videos he's produced focusing on defeating the security of Master Locks, and, according to Bosnian Bill, has earned him several lawsuit threats from the company.
macgyver (Score:2)
macgyver
90 seconds? No, a lot less (Score:5, Informative)
how to open a new #3 Master Lock using a small brass hammer — in under 90 seconds.
The entire video is 72 seconds long. The actual defeating of the lock takes a grand total of five seconds.
So yeah, technically that is under 90 seconds. But you're really understating it.
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To be fair, most any padlock can be defeated in 1 second with a bolt cutter.
And the result is instant evidence that the lock was tampered with.
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No, the statement is fair. It is a reference to how long the how-to is, not how long it takes someone who has practiced it.
For someone doing it for the first time it might take linger than 90 seconds.
Good thing a prospective thief can buy a few practice locks at the hardware store before he tries it for real.
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It is a reference to how long the how-to is
Perhaps, but were that the case, the "in under 90 seconds" should not have been located at the end where it is more likely to be taken as a modifier to the action being demonstrated. To convey the idea you're suggesting, the proper phrasing should have been:
In a video, locksport enthusiast Bosnian Bill demonstrates in under 90 seconds how to open a new #3 Master Lock using a small brass hammer.
As it is, the phrasing in the summary is ambiguous, but it certainly suggests that the trick itself, rather than the explanation, takes under 90 seconds. Both are true, of course, but neither is as precise as we'd like around here.
Why Master Lock? (Score:2)
I am sure all the lower end locks are just as easy to defeat.
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If you buy an ACME brand lock and it turns out to be crap, no surprise. When you buy one from the most recognizable name in lock brands it means there are a bajillion of crappy locks out there in the field with a pretty bad vulnerability.
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If you buy an ACME brand lock and it turns out to be crap, no surprise. When you buy one from the most recognizable name in lock brands it means there are a bajillion of crappy locks out there in the field with a pretty bad vulnerability.
No, what it really means is people are cheap, and "recognizable" has little to do with the fact that 99% of people will pass over that good $30 padlock in favor of the shitty $3 one. Even the lock picker has stated that Master Lock does offer some secure designs. They just cost more. A lot more.
Many vulnerabilities against this particular lock have been known for years. Consumers don't care enough to do 30 seconds of research before buying, which isn't surprising. Cheap often goes hand in hand with ig
Next up (Score:2)
How to pick a lock using a pick (as in pick and shovel)
The Marines would use a 12 ga shotgun
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How to pick a lock using a pick (as in pick and shovel)
The Marines would use a 12 ga shotgun
Or a well placed foot can open a door, a window, even some walls..... Brute force is usually effective and quick. No real story in that. IF you really want in, there isn't much a $10 lock is going to do to stop you, only now you can open this lock, without the key, without destroying anything in 10 seconds...
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Did you actually watch the video? He just rapidly taps on the side with a small hammer for about 5 seconds and it pops open. Nothing like a shotgun or mining pick involved.
*racks pump-action*
*BOOM!*
"And your point..."
- Every Marine ever
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*chuckles* Have you met any Marines? I hold a Ph.D in Applied Mathematics and served in the Marines. (GI Bill. Yay!)
Now, to be honest, I'd shoot a lock but probably not with a shotgun. Even a slug may not do the job and it is not accurate enough to do at a safe distance. I'd use a rifle, I'd probably dig an AR out for it just for fun.
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The B in "breaking" has nothing to do with "breaking" anything except the plane. Well, pretty much. That's the simplest way to think of it. If you push a door open (even if it was ajar) then you're still breaking and entering. If you pushed open a gate, you're still breaking and entering. Think of it more like breaking the plane than breaking an object. Even deception is considered breaking and entering. Lemme find you a link...
Here:
http://www.legalmatch.com/law-... [legalmatch.com]
This includes one definition that is the o
I'm confident 80% of posters didn't watch video (Score:5, Insightful)
This isn't like "oh, I can eventually break this lock by smashing it", it's "this lock opens if you tap it in the right place". It takes seconds, and requires nothing in the way of fancy technique or specialized tools.
Yes, we all get it, any lock can be defeated - but this isn't the right story to use that stock comment on. This isn't someone smashing a small lock with a big hammer - this is someone demonstrating how defective a particular lock is, and it makes for an entertaining little video.
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It takes seconds after hours of practice and years of experience.
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Did you watch the video, or are you one of the "80%" who didn't?
You don't need practice to lightly tap a lock on its side for 5-10 seconds. There's no technique to practice. It's light tension and tapping.
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Watch the video? That would be almost as bad as reading the article.
You've probably forgotten the old TV sets that wouldn't work until you thumped them? Thing was, you had to thump them with just the right amount of force in just the right place.
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a moment to learn, a lifetime to master...
Re:I'm confident 80% of posters didn't watch video (Score:5, Insightful)
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I still don't give a shit, it's not a computer
AHhhh... relevance, right?? Right on.
Although, maybe, a Masterlock somewhere is being used to secure access to a computer or server.
Or someone with a computer or server has something, somewhere secured with a pop-a-lock.
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I want you to try the ABLOY PL362 with a $20 bolt cutter. Make a YouTube video and post the result.
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And in that case, you would simply use the bolt cutters on the door shackle the lock is attached to, which are likely very thin steel. Or you simply use your $10 crow bar to rip the door right off the door jamb.
Anyone who thinks padlocks protect anything have rocks in their head.
STOP (Score:5, Funny)
Hammer time!
A lot of comments about bashing the lock... (Score:5, Informative)
The lock isn't being smashed, bashed, smacked or slammed. It's being gently tapped with a brass hammer.
So mentioning bolt cutters, sledge hammers and acetylene torches is about as pertinent as launching into a diatribe about how Mandarin is a hard language to learn, with all of it's tonal inflections, when the discussion topic is about programming languages...
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I have actually watched a lot of videos by bosnianbill [youtube.com] and I'm not even remotely surprised by the outcome of this.
Cheap locks are weak, expensive locks may result in delaying the intruders enough to make it inconvenient to make entry and pick easier alternatives. If they really want to break in then they don't care about a lock anymore but take down the wall instead.
I have concluded that the weakest lock to be considered are the ABUS Granit [abus.com] series of locks, and that the alternatives are Abloy [abloy.com] and Anchor [anchorlas.com].
Who would have thought it can be right? (Score:3)
You know the old saying "when all you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail"?
Who'd have thought it can be right...
Lawsuits? (Score:2)
These guys really have some nerve. You'd think the least they would do is try to avoid the courtroom.
Designed to be difficult to pick (Score:4, Interesting)
This a new lock:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
It's on kickstarter now:
https://www.kickstarter.com/pr... [kickstarter.com]
You'd think Master Lock with all their cash would come up with clever ideas like this lock's mechanism.
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Master is protected by expired patents.... they try to threaten out people who are like them, they don't have anything good to offer anymore.
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Master is protected by expired patents.... they try to threaten out people who are like them, they don't have anything good to offer anymore.
Master is protected by trademarks. Everyone buys Master locks because their name has been around since eternity. Most locks will never suffer a picking attempt, so just putting a padlock on something is "sufficient" for most people... to never notice that their lock is shit.
I have a master lock on my gate, but any asshole can cut my chain and replace a link with a quick link and even I probably won't notice for days. The chain is there to stop random assholes from driving up my driveway to "ask about their
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This a new lock:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
It's on kickstarter now:
https://www.kickstarter.com/pr... [kickstarter.com]
You'd think Master Lock with all their cash would come up with clever ideas like this lock's mechanism.
To come up with a new mechanism would imply that the old mechanisms aren't all that good, and they will never admit that. It could lead to a major class action suite. In the US, the only option for any corporation is to just pretend that there's no issue, and continue to sell the same old shit. Until someone comes along and forces the issue, like this guy.
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The keys seems to be really bad and not holding up - they will easily snag and break off the coding part render the key useless.
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And how long is the lifetime of the key? A week before it breaks off?
Remembering history (Score:2)
Back some time ago, Master went to Slashdot to claim they needed some information security about lock-breaking methods otherwise it'd be game over for locks. New cars today come without physical keys and rely on an RFID-like chip that when close enough unlocks the car. Most important things are now locked with PIN-locks or card locks rather than key locks.
It's basically game over for the products under the Master line... repeated combo locks and key locks just didn't last until today.
My dad had this skillset (Score:2)
Not with this particular lock, but another very similar. I bought it when I was 15 or so, for locking up my bicycle. The lock shackle was entirely removable and shaped like a mushroom, the intent being you couldn't cut the hasp because the eyes of the cable lock were in the way. The body of the lock was shaped such that he could tell which way the dog engaged the shackle, so he picked it up, took off his shoe, whacked it, and the shackle popped right out, within about ten seconds of the first time he saw
Location (Score:2)
All of this depends on where the lock is. If it's at a remote, unsupervised site, no lock will hold for very long. If it's a cheap padlock at the local gym, not so easy. Some techniques like raking the pins or shimming the bold are quiet enough to work. But even tapping on a lock attached to a metal locker is going to attract the attention of six MMA fighters training with the weights. Even your lookout with his gun is going to get his neck snapped for screwing with their gym bags.
If I had a hammer... (Score:2)
I remember back in grade school they did not have a lock cutter. The administration would just whack the combination locks with a hammer and they'd pop right open. I remember one of the non-Master locks popping completely apart and spilling its guts. It doesn't surprise me that it works for other types of locks as well. Locks are, after all, good at keeping honest people honest.
I thought it was well known (Score:2)
If All you've got is a hammer... (Score:2)
If All you've got is a hammer, every problem looks like a lock .
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Yer right; walking around with bolt cutters is like a neon sign that says I'm a thief.
I guess you could hide it under a trenchcoat. Which would be totally low profile.
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Locks are just there to keep honest people honest anyway. If somebody wants to get in, there is not much you can really do to stop them, especially with a sub $10 padlock. They can brut force (bolt cutters, drill, heat, crowbar etc) or finesse it open (bump key, pick, or what this guy does) and get in, you cannot stop that.
All you can really do is to slow them down by making things difficult enough it takes a long time to break in (Drill the safe, dig though the wall of the vault, or what have you) and pro
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The 5 button door locks are also trivial, we call them 'riff-raff filters'. Anyone determined appropriate your lab equipment will not be stopped by them, or much else.
Anyone bent on doing bad cannot be stopped easily, but those folks are pretty darn rare. Most honest folks don't need much beyond a piece of tamper resistant tape to be kept honest, and a cheesy lock is even better.
Re: I'd be more worried about bump-key or bolt-cut (Score:2)
Re:heh (Score:5, Informative)
Yeah except he's not hitting it "hard" like you're thinking. "If a hammer isn't an option, a screwdriver handle works just as well." -- it's not like he's using a sledgehammer here. This isn't an attack on the structural integrity of the lock itself, it's more unlocking it like a bump key, and you can re-lock it without leaving evidence you messed with it.
books work too (Score:3)
Re:books work too (Score:5, Funny)
That's a Textbook unlocking.
Re:heh (Score:5, Informative)
technology, news for nerds, stuff that matters
"derp, you can open a lock by hitting it friggin hard with a hammer"
Yes indeed.
No, he's not hitting it hard with a hammer. This approach is not about brute force, it's about applying a shock to over come a small spring that holds the pin that locks the shackle closed.
But everybody needs to realize that locks and keys only keep honest people honest anyway. There is not much you can do to stop somebody from breaking in if they really want to. About all you can hope for is to make it take long enough to break in that they get caught when they try.
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But everybody needs to realize that locks and keys only keep honest people honest anyway. There is not much you can do to stop somebody from breaking in if they really want to. About all you can hope for is to make it take long enough to break in that they get caught when they try.
Which is the point they are trying to make in the video -- if it only takes 5 seconds for a thief to pop it open, that's not much of a barrier. For bonus points, he can lock it back up when he's done so you'll never know how he got in.
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But everybody needs to realize that locks and keys only keep honest people honest anyway. There is not much you can do to stop somebody from breaking in if they really want to. About all you can hope for is to make it take long enough to break in that they get caught when they try.
That's completely false. An honest person wouldn't steal someone else's stuff, whether it's locked up or not. A lock is a basic form of security that only keeps someone whose dishonesty is only being kept in check by having to expend any effort at all.
It's all on a spectrum. If someone is totally honest, no locks are required. If someone is slightly dishonest, they might decide that defeating the lock isn't worth the effort or the reward, so the lock protects the thing. If someone is hell bent on defeating
Re:heh (Score:5, Insightful)
You do realize that the saying "keeping honest people honest" is a common idiom, I didn't invent it.
This idiom is contradictory on it's face but it illustrates a truth about people and the human condition, nobody is perfect. You can obtain a large amount of compliance by placing even token limits on behavior. It's why we paint lines on roads, put locks on doors, label doors "Entry Only" (when by law they must function as an exit) and put DNS filters on company networks to keep NSFW surfing down. We encourage generally honest people to stay on the straight and narrow by offering even token amounts of effort to step over into "dishonest" behavior. None of my examples are any more than tokens and all are easily circumvented with little effort and serve to encourage imperfect people to do the right things because most of us actually have a conscience that we listen to and it screams loudly when it take effort to do wrong.
So, really, NOBODY is totally honest, but keeping the majority of people from being dishonest doesn't usually take much.... Which if you think about the idiom, is a clever illustration of the concept, even if it has logical consistency issues because none of us are perfect..
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i once had a bum sadly asking me for a snickers bar he saw in my car because he thought i looked too nice to have a car broken into. i didn't know whether to appreciate the sentiment or be alarmed. i just stood there confused.
i guess that's an example of a barrier that kept an honest person honest... to this day, i'm still confused about that encounter.
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i once had a bum sadly asking me for a snickers bar he saw in my car because he thought i looked too nice to have a car broken into. i didn't know whether to appreciate the sentiment or be alarmed. i just stood there confused.
i guess that's an example of a barrier that kept an honest person honest... to this day, i'm still confused about that encounter.
You have left us in complete suspense. Did you give him the Snickers bar?
Re: heh (Score:5, Interesting)
I used to apprentice for a local locksmith company.
The Masterlock #-series locks are sheer pin locks. That is, in order to set the pins, you literally insert the key you want it keyed to, and sheer the pins off to the lengths that match the cuts in the key. This makes them really easy to pick already, I've gotten into one with a small paperclip, so I wouldn't even recommend them for minor things like keeping the kids out of your wifes box of dildos. They can be convenient only in a situation where you need lots of them fast (I had it down to ~20 seconds per lock).
As mentioned in the article, American Padlock (owned by MasterLock), Abus (I really like these personally), or even Guard brand padlocks are a safer bet.
The American and Abus padlocks can have the cylinder removed and recoded easily (as long as you have a key), saving you from buying a whole new lock if you simply want to keep one keyholder out for whatever reason.
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The Masterlock #-series locks are sheer pin locks. That is, in order to set the pins, you literally insert the key you want it keyed to, and sheer the pins off to the lengths that match the cuts in the key.
Basically, this is identical to all pin tumbler locks....
Well, it's immaterial whether the manufacturer chose to use different size pins as replaceable parts, or whether they chose to cut the key pins to the same length when keying. It would be generally better if they would thread their pin chamb
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Even put up the layer to use disc type cylinders like Abloy have instead of pin type cylinders. Still pickable, but only with a special tool and a lot more time.
Honestly seeing the Master locks makes me wonder what they are supposed to protect - child toys?
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> so I wouldn't even recommend them for minor things like keeping the kids out of your wifes box of dildos. They can be convenient only in a situation where you need lots of them fast (I had it down to ~20 seconds per lock).
In what situation would you need to get your hands on boxes of dildos? Wouldn't one or two suffice? ;)
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I had a friend whose father owned a locksmithing company, this was back in the 1970s. I don't think it was one that you could pick up at a hardware store so much as one would have to order it from a catalog (something we did back then) but I seem to recall there was a Masterlock series in particular that he absolutely hated having to remove if they had lost their keys. They were neigh on impossible to remove without doing damage and not pick-proof (I kind of doubt any tumbler locks were pick proof back then
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But everybody needs to realize that locks and keys only keep honest people honest anyway.
I would say the purpose of locks is to persuade Lazy people to go pick another target. Honest people shouldn't steal anything, even if it were left unlocked, although the lock might also dissuade some people from taking up crime at an early age, or "borrowing" something without permission, since now they would be forced to commit a definite crime or a more severe offense.
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Locks mealy reduce temptation by putting a token obstacle in the way. Most of us have a working conscience that will prevent us from doing wrong, however many of us are subject to temptation as well. Putting even an easily bypassed obstacle in the way does three things. First, it causes the prospective criminal to have to make some extra effort, even if it's token, to actually commit the crime. Second, it induces a delay, again even if token, which allows extra time for the conscience to work. It also p
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I've watched a lot of his videos over the years - great entertainment. He makes a lot of bold statements about lock companies to stay away from - seems almost libelous.
But when is YouTube going to sue him for stealing their logo? Lock Tube down to the color and shape of the logo. :-)
Seriously - his videos are a lot of fun to watch.
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Slashbonk: Technology news for cavemen, stuff that splatters.
1. Hacking with blunt objects
2. Encryption by smashing to pieces
3. Decryption? Make the cave-women do it!
4. Bronze vs. rocks, does it matter?
5. Will your job be outsourced to Pangaea?
6. How to tell if you are on Pangaea
8. How to get more cave-women into smashing
7. When to run from volcanoes
9. Numbering lists correctly
10. What are numbers?
11. What are lists?
12. Does it run Cavix?
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Not to forget the perpetual controversy: Neolithic age and why it won't come because of patents on rounded rocks.
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Security is "stuff that matters". Information security requires some level of physical security.
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It's a hardware hack, and even nerds needs locks - sometimes more than others due to more expensive toys.
Re: heh (Score:2)
Just FYI, it wasn't a hard hit.
He steadily tapped the side while applying pressure towards opening it. The repeated hits caused the mechanism to rattle loose and the lock opened.
Unsure if the lock could be closed again to disguise the break-in
Re:heh (Score:5, Informative)
Um, this method didn't leave any kind of evidence it was done, he didn't even hit it hard with the hammer, just enough to get the lock catch to release.
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So what? Your software doesn't come with Windows either. You shouldn't expound on how you dominate people before you even win an argument, it is jumping the gun and makes you look bad.
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Also easier to hide the hammer when you're trying to look inconspicuous.
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But if you wanted to unlock something, steal or copy what is inside and lock it back up delaying or hiding that you stole something...
NO brute force method will do that
Which happens about 1 in a million times people are breaking into something.
Re:heh (Score:5, Informative)
I think the concern is you can open the lock without any physical damage, get what you want, and close the lock (they didn't demonstrate that on the video, but it looks like it's fine). They barely tapped the lock with the hammer, and you could do it with any small weighted object. Much less obvious than bolt cutters.
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you could do it with any small weighted object
Use of a non-manufacturer-approved hammer could void your warranty
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Don't quote me on this but I think the tumblers, in good locks, are made of brass? If so, I don't know how much good a magnet is going to be.
Re:Forgot to mention... (Score:5, Insightful)
But, can an acetylene torch, bolt cutters, or hydrofluoric acid leave you a complete lack of evidence of tampering? He didn't smash the lock, just tapped it.
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Yeah, you really taught me a lesson. You taught me a lesson in what incompetence looks like.
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best subject title EVAR
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You can use more than just a hammer. How about an acetylene torch? Bolt Cutters? Hydrofluoric acid? Typical "if all you have is a hammer" tunnel vision. I expect more from you, Slashdot!
True, but with this method, or lock picking, I can gain access to whatever it is that is locked up, remove what I want, and then replace the lock with no visible evidence of entrance. The noise is minimal, the technique and tools pretty trivial, so that at any opportunity, someone who wanted to could gain entrance and leave without leaving obvious clues. If you had a job box, tool shed, or building locked up with one of these, they could easily gain entrance, and remove something, possibly leaving the owner
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That's difficult though. It's a lot easier to go to your lawyers and order them to make it go away.
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I agree, the lawsuits only makes Master Locks look stupid while serious lock manufacturers actually learns from how the locks are picked and make better locks the next generation.
Meanwhile the Abloy disc lock that's very hard to pick still is available over the counter in a model with keys almost identical to the keys that were available in 1907. They have improved versions as well today that are considered to be very hard to pick.
Personally I'm only considering the locks from Abloy [abloy.com], ABUS Granit Series [abus.com] or A [anchorlas.com]
If All you've got is a hammer, ... (Score:2)
Noooo.
The solution is to make the possession of hammers illegal.
If All you've got is a hammer, every problem looks like a lock.
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No, the cheaper and more effective solution would be to simply say "well no shit the lock eventually broke if you hit it enough times with a hammer. Even safes can never be completely 100% impenetrable."
but the lock didn't break -- it unlocked, so he can steal your stuff, put the lock back on, and when the security guard checks on it an hour later, he'll confirm that it's still securely locked and you won't know for days or weeks that your stuff was stolen.
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Its not just hammers, this guy has shown how to get into these licks with a plastic zip tie and all sorts of other things that it shouldn't ever be possible to open a lock with.
Master Lock makes junk locks and anyone who uses one for anything important is an idiot.
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Actually this technique does not damage the lock. It's more of a finesse technique, where you bump the lock in the correct way to overcome the force of a small internal spring to push the shackle locking pin out of the way so you can slide it open.
So, the AC is right, better lock designs might be a good idea.... But, alas it's a fool that thinks a $10 padlock is going to afford you much security. It's really only going to keep honest folk honest because they are too easy to brute force with bolt cutter
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Re:WTF (Score:4, Informative)
Doesn't totally twatting the fuck out of the lock leave the bolt(s) still engaged?
Oh hang on, it's a padlock. Where not only the body of the lock, but the actual bit that links to the door is completely exposed.
Try this one neat trick with an angle grinder!
An angle grinder makes a lot more noise, is harder to keep in a pocket, and prevents you from locking it back up again to hide your tracks.
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Then just put your own padlock on it with gum jammed in the keyhole. The owner will need to cut your lock off because his key won't work, but he won't be suspicious because he would have blamed the gum.
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Gee, there is gum in the lock. I have no idea how it got there. Those burn marks were not on the wall before. I am not suspicious at all. /sarcasm
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A lock is only as strong as the weakest link.
And there's not much that a pair of boltcutter's won't go through in seconds. Whether that's the lasp, the hasp, or some other part of the door.
A lock's purpose is not to stop it being opened EVER, it's to stop it being opened by a opportunist with equipment that he can find laying nearby. You can do super-cheap locks with nothing more than a small screwdriver as leverage.
Everything else is purely within the realm of whatever it is locking being weaker anyway
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yeah, but that leaves evidence.
This method does not leave evidence that the lock was opened. Someone could easily open the lock, take something, and relock it without the owner thinking anything was
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it would be super sweet of you to steam your neighbor's power tools, and I bet they would look super clean afterwards, but why would you bother? maybe you're just a good neighbor?
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Only the ABUS Granit series is good enough though, even if even the 37RK/80 only scores a 4 out of 5 in the SBSC [sbsc.se] security rating for locks. Also look at the Abloy and Anchor locks.
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The whole point of locks is a DETERRENT, they are not pure security.
Don't remember anyone saying otherwise...
They will keep out casual thieves
Not now they won't. Now a casual thief who's forgotten to bring his bolt cutters - and who isn't specifically looking out for a Master lock, by the way - will spot one and know that he can just tap it with a rock.
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Oh yes, because someone who has no thefts planned will just be casually strolling down the street at 2 AM and see the master lock on your toolshed and decide "you know what? I have had enough of the straight and narrow, time to steal some hedge trimmers".
Yes, because that is how most thefts happen. They never happen with someone canvassing a neighbourhood and taking as many quick-win items as possible.
Why would anyone goof around trying to find a rock to break open your cheap $10 padlock to get at your wor
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It all depends on what you're trying to secure. Knowing how easily a lock can be defeated is good information. My most frequent use of a padlock is in the gym. Who's going to carry a pair of bolt cutters into the locker room of the gym, health spa or anywhere else there are lockers available for temporary use? Obviously a padlock can be defeated by a determined thief with time, privacy and the right tools, but sometimes a deterrent against the casual thief is exactly what's needed.
For the locker room, ev